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May 7, 2008
Co-op of the Day: 164 State Street FSBO
Spring is here and the FSBO'ers are coming out to play. First up, this floor-through at 164 State Street in Brooklyn Heights. A one-bedroom plus den or small second bedroom, the 900-square-foot place has been recently renovated and carries a relatively small monthly maintenance of $695. The bathroom has been recently renovated as has the kitchen. Asking price: $639,000. Think it'll sell? Decide for yourself at the open house on Saturday from 1 to 3.
164 State Street [FSBO] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Overpriced
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 12:59 PM
Really great place and location.
If I were in the market, I would buy this in a heartbeat!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:00 PM
Will definitely sell. 639k is a bargain. Probably worth 675k given Brooklyn Heights & proximity to Smith & Atlantic
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:01 PM
rip off
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:01 PM
1:00 must be the owner.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:02 PM
Cute apartment, nice reno, fair and unusual ask for the area. Yay fizzbows.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:04 PM
Not the owner...
Its a -steal-. Nice to see the FSBO being more realistic than their RE counterparts.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:09 PM
no elevator no doorman not a real 2-bedroom.
it is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:12 PM
Can you make that nursery a real 2nd BR? I assume that's a load bearing wall, but if you put in a beam and swapped the entry closets to the opposite side could you make a hallway to separate entries for both BRs?
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:12 PM
Just to give you an idea of why people are moving to Brooklyn...This place is 682 square feet...clearly a nice location and arguably good building (although I heard it leaks) with an asking price of 2 million dollars.
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1258189
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:14 PM
No one said it was a real 2 bedroom, 1:12.
Is highlighted as a 1 bedroom with den or "small second bedroom"
Can you not read??
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:15 PM
It's about 800 sf when you take out stairs and landing -- so that is almost $800 sg ft for a one bedroom walk-up! This would rent fo rless than $3K/month!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:15 PM
I rent very close to here. My place is a 1 bedroom with NO DEN. And no second bedroom. I'd say it's maybe 700 square feet.
The rent is 2800.
So yes, 1:15, it would indeed rent for over 3,000.
Probably at least 3200 maybe more.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:18 PM
WARNING to prospective buyers. According to Property Shark each floor is 25' x 34', which equals 850 square feet. Then subtract approx 7' x 13' for the stairs, or 90 square feet. So now you are down to 760 square feet, and $639,000 is too expensive.
Do most buyers do basic calculations before they commit?
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:37 PM
Warning to idiots (1:37):
Measurements are always taken from the outside walls. Every single listing overstates square footage. You are really naive to just now realize this and make it seem like you've just discovered fire.
Even at 760 sf, $840 psf is not too expensive.
Many places in Prime North Slope sell for 1000 psf these days. (Mine did) You don't think BH should?
Location doesn't get much better than this.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:43 PM
can't imagine caring about PPSF and not a more basic, does this space work for me?
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:46 PM
I rent around the corner. My place is about this size, and rents for $2000 a month. This apartment is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:49 PM
I don't give two sh*ts about square footage.
I walk into a place and decide for myself if it looks workable.
Just as 1:46 has said.
If you are that hung up on square footage, then go buy a 4000 sf mcmansion in Ohio.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:50 PM
1:43, you idiot, those are the outside measurements. The seller is trying to deceive people. Don't tell me square footage does not matter. It doesn't matter when stuff sells for $200PSF. But when it sells for $800PSF it is an obsession.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:56 PM
1:14, thanks for the link. I realize it's a Richard Meier building, which has great appeal to many, but that's one of the most insane prices I've ever seen. Imagine explaining to out of town guests and family, not that one could squeeze them into this studio apt, what you paid (unless the out of towners were from Tokyo or Central London). As for the State Street place, the price does seem a bit high to me as well, but not completely unrealistic.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 1:59 PM
not an obession for me.
seems others on here don't care about sqaure footage either as much as you do.
in a co-op, one can use a percentage of common areas, hallways, etc in the sqaure footage measurements. did you know that??
yeah, i didn't think so.
you are really bringing nothing to the table.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 1:59 PM
Dorks.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:00 PM
Seems there is someone on this thread trying to sabatoge the owners.
Kinda sad.
Let people decide for themselves if they like the place.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:00 PM
I am the owner and Property Shark has it wrong...it's 38ft deep. There will be a tape measure available at the open house on Saturday. Come measure!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:09 PM
Nid, but the rooms look small to me.
And that maintenance may be low for a place this size in a building with elevator, doorman, staff, managing agent, etc. But in a small walkup, that is not low.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:11 PM
Sabotaging? Actually, it seems to me there are many more positive comments regarding the pricing of this place than is typical on this blog. It's much more common for posters to state that a place is overpriced than to hear so many posts saying it's a steal, a bargain, unusual ask, etc. In fact, I'm strongly suspecting the seller is commenting on this thread. Despite that, I live in the area and would love this place to sell at or above ask for my own sake, but just don't see it happening.
(Typed this before seeing 2:09's comment...I guess I was right)
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 2:14 PM
Size matters
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 7, 2008 2:19 PM
I rent very nearby (on a better block IMHO) in a very similar 1BR + Den/Office/Nursery. I pay $1600. I win. This is crazy expensive but if I could afford it, I would buy it. Great neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:21 PM
rent increases.
mortgages do not.
and by the way, my wife says size doesn't matter!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:32 PM
From 1:59 = in a co-op, one can use a percentage of common areas, hallways, etc in the sqaure footage measurements. did you know that?? =
How stupid. The appraiser either uses the outside measurments for a coop in a rowhouse (like this coop), or measures the interior if the coop is in a conventional apartment building. Do you think he is measuring the hallways, lobby, super's office, and elevator shaft, and then trying to figure out how to allocate it to the unit he is appraising?
They do that for office buildings, not coop apartments. Idiot!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:34 PM
Comparable apt in my walkup n. slope building just went for $595. Needed bath redone. This place is well-priced.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:35 PM
"and by the way, my wife says size doesn't matter!"
She lied to you.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:36 PM
I heard she's fooling around with Biff
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 7, 2008 2:40 PM
Several months back we viewed a lovely FSBO that whose listed square footage was much larger than the living space square footage of the floorplan. The owner was upfront about the discrepancy when we politely asked him if that was, indeed, the exterior square footage of the unit. A comp search revealed they were asking about twenty bucks less per square foot than the average ppsf of the building and the area.
That figure is likely the exterior measurement of the unit laid out in the co-op schema. That's how co-op shares and according maintenance are divvied up. These people don't seem to be trying to pull a fast one to me - they're trying to present a reasonable initial ask and will likely be more apt to negotiate without a broker breathing down their necks for their cut. I wish more owners would follow their lead.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:43 PM
This has been on the market for at least a month. Don't remember what is was first listed for, so not sure if there has been a price drop.
Posted by: fawn at May 7, 2008 2:51 PM
Dave, you little instigator/thread hijacker, you! Fine wingman you are. I told you, what happens in Brownstoner stays in Brownstoner.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 2:52 PM
ignoring any tax savings, your monthly cost of mortgage+maint+opportunity costs is around 5k/month, which is about double area rents.
Nicer apt than you'll find as a rental, but I'll wait until the bust, thank you.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 2:57 PM
The bust is usually worth the wait.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 3:01 PM
Not if you're really an a$$ man Biff
2:57 how can you pretend to know what someon'e mortgage will be??? Maybe they have saved more money than you could possibly imagine and are only taking out a $200-300,000 mortgage.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 7, 2008 3:06 PM
went to an earlier open house for this place. location was great, apt was pretty nice, good reno -- but... it's on the third floor or 4th floor and is a walkup, my wife has bad back so that was a dealbreaker for us. but in response to all the sq ft comments, the place felt spacious. very large master bedroom, second bedroom def big enough for a kid up to a certain age. seemed to be a fair to good deal to us, hard to find anything that price in that hood, and i've been looking. and will continue to... sigh.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 3:09 PM
Dave, you are usually good with economics, but you are missing on this one. 2:57's point isn't much dependent on how much mortgage is taken out, since he/she is including both mortgage and opportunity cost. If a smaller mortgage is taken out, the opportunity cost (money lost on the alternative investment of your down-payment) goes up. The mortgage makes a difference only to the extent that the after tax rates on your mortgage and alternative investment differ, and this is usually a marginal difference.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 3:30 PM
Dave, I suppose I'm an ass man as I'm always being told, "You're an ass, man!"
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 3:30 PM
Apologies...I didn't see he had included oppoortunity costs as well. Still beats throwing rental money into a toilet though. At under $710 psf (seller says 900+) its not overpriced. Depends upon what the building looks like...new roof, tuckpointing,windows and new boiler??? I would assume all of the above were the case. If not then??
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 7, 2008 3:41 PM
What is an FSBO?
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 4:01 PM
4:01, it's For Sale By Owner, also referred to as Fizzbow.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 4:02 PM
Dorks
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 4:25 PM
is that the only word in your grade school vocabulary 4:25
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 7, 2008 4:40 PM
This is a very tight little place. the location is good, but it isn't worth the price. There are comparable apartment, even in the Heights, priced close that are in nicer elevator buildings. The "den" would make a nice walk-in closet, or a baby's room but what do you do when the baby turns 2? I doubt you could rent this for more than 3000 a month.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 4:48 PM
Compared to these places currently on the market (both are 1 bedroom, both are smaller and both are more expensive) I'd say this FSBO one looks priced to sell...(oh and both below have higher maint...a LOT higher maint)
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1255358&ohDat=5/7/2008%2012:00:00%20AM;5/11/2008%2012:00:00%20AM;
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1236749&ohDat=5/11/2008%2012:00:00%20AM;
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 4:59 PM
4:59, if you're the owner, can you please identify yourself, as you did earlier, in the interest of full disclosure? It would be nice to sort out the objective comments from your own.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 5:05 PM
I am 4:59 and not the owner.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 5:07 PM
Seems like a very fair price to me. Nice space. Good windows and light. Hard to find this kind of place in the area. Will definitely sell.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 5:07 PM
"Will definitely sell."
1:01 PM
"Will definitely sell."
5:07 PM
"Not the owner"
1:05 PM
"Not the owner"
1:09 PM
"Not the owner"
5:07 PM
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 5:17 PM
You know what Biff...it's people like you that ruin these threads and force people to have to preface things with "not the owner" etc.
Stop being so childish. I don't think many people here appreciate your comments.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 5:20 PM
LOL white people LOL
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 5:34 PM
5:20 = the owner
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 5:44 PM
5:20, let's get real. It's people like brokers and certain owners of featured homes that ruin these threads. Perhaps you are naive enough to believe every one of the positive comments in this thread is legit. Perhaps you're the one posting them. But this is a very average apartment (albeit in a very good area). If you've spent any time on Brownstoner, you would know that there is no way in hell it would command anywhere near the praise it's gotten here.
The only reason anyone is prefacing statements with "not the owner" is because the statements they are making are not believable. And I know for a fact that EVERYONE here appreciates and absolutely LOVES my comments!
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 7, 2008 5:57 PM
Hi Biff and everyone on this delightful thread. I am the owner of this apartment and in an effort to clear up any confusion, the only comment I posted was the 2:09 comment about the measurements.
The only way to know if this or any other apartment is worth the money is to come see it. Hope to see you on Saturday from 1-3pm! You too, Biff!
p.s. The apartment comps and appraises just fine.
Posted by: noah at May 7, 2008 6:48 PM
you are paying for the neighborhood. A young person with good knees will be happy here. some like tattoos and piercings, some like Prada and pearls. It's a diverse city.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 9:49 PM
I am not the owner of the apartment or a broker, but I live in the neighborhood.
I think it is a bargain and underpriced. There should be a bidding war for this apartment. The location is very good, but would be better if between Henry & Clinton. If I were considering purchasing a coop (something I would never ever do again), I'd seriously consider buying it.
I wish the owner all the luck in the world and hope he gets his asking if not more.
All the haters/renters should pipe down. You should have bought ten years ago when you had a chance. Instead you wasted your money on rent, handbags/watches, and silly vacations. Now, what do you have to show for it? No equity, no tax deduction, and living in a dung-hole with your rent constantly going up and up. Oh wait, you do have something, that taste of bile in your mouths and renter's envy.
My suggestion, borrow some money from your parents (for something useful this time) and purchase this bargain before you get shut out of the market, again...
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 9:56 PM
P.S. Property Shark is more often wrong than right!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 10:15 PM
9:56, are you going through a bitter divorce or something? you sound like you hate people.
talking to someone about it can help.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 11:02 PM
The place is not overpriced by much. New windows, kitchen and bath reno nicely done.
But the kitchen is small, the fridge blocks part of the window, and the sink is small.
No one mentioned it but the underlying mortgage is paid off which means that the $695 maint is relatively high (add at least $150/mo tax break not gained)
Lastly the baby room needs window guards (by law)!
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 12:44 AM
12:44, I'm glad I'm not the only person who noticed that. But I assumed (hoped) they took them down for the staging to showcase the view.
Posted by: Heather at May 8, 2008 2:35 AM
9:56
Sorry your apartment hasn't sold yet. The one "between Henry and Clinton".
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 7:48 AM
7:48
I'm not selling my C.G. townhouse, which happens to be between Henry & Hicks. I would have rather found something between Clinton and Henry, but did not at the time. Just making comments.
State Street is a great block. I like State from Hicks to Clinton better than Clinton to Court. Quieter, less foot traffic, and a great deli on Henry St.
Like I said, I wish the seller all the luck in the world.
Just tired of all the truly negative and stupid comments about a good apartment that is a good deal!
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 8:42 AM
Noah, I give you lots of credit for identifying yourself and braving the storm of having to face hyper-critical comments by having your place put up on Brownstoner for public scrutiny. I apologize for coming on strong; I was just trying to be objective (something many others here cannot be with respect to their neighborhoods) given I live closeby. While I still stand by my comments regarding the price, I would love to see you get what you are asking or more. Further, I think you did a great job with the FSBO. I would swing by on Saturday, but people with tape measures make me nervous. Good luck.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 8, 2008 8:56 AM
Good Luck Noah. Your website is very nice, too. You have done a nice job of marketing the apartment!
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 9:10 AM
Just tired of all the truly negative and stupid comments about people who rent!
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 8, 2008 9:16 AM
Carol Gardens, my apologies (and to all renters). My sarcastic sense of humor got the best of me. I've just seen a lot of renters envy, having the pleasure of renting out two floors of my TH. At the end of the day, I have to be thankful that there are renters as they are paying my mortgage and taxes. Renting gives you a great deal of freedom and is sometimes the only option given the high cost of real estate. I could only afford my TH from selling my 1 bedroom (between Henry & Clinton, by the way) and then selling my 3 bedroom (also between Henry & Clinton) a few years later for nice profits.
I apologize to Noah for hi-jacking the link with my sarcastic comments. Like I said earlier, Good Luck Noah. You've done a great job. Keep up the good work and please let us know how it goes. I support you 100% and if you need a place to rent after you sale, let me know!
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 9:43 AM
true, window guards need to go in, but give me a break. many, many people dont' put them in until baby is, say, rolling over. it is hard for a baby who can't move to get up and crawl out a window.
the apartment looks great. good luck with the sale.
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 11:53 AM
How was the open house?
Posted by: guest at May 11, 2008 6:53 PM
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