Condos of the Day: Price Cuts at 402 Pacific Street

corcoran is starting to lose credibilty with some of the prices they are trying to sell for. What buyer is going to trust them?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 12:50 PM

keep chopping. needs to come down a lot more

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 12:55 PM

"These condo conversions seem like an increasingly tough sell to us as prices in larger new buildings only get more competitive."

Yeah I think it's the larger share of financial liability compared to that of larger developments. You are effectively co-purchasing/owning a whole brownstone with your upstairs/downstairs neighbor(s). Risky.

But then larger developments present a social liability - low owner occupancy. Of course this could also lead to a financial liability when it's time to sell.

Ahhh...the factors of purchasing.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 12:56 PM

Corcoran, we know you all read Brownstoner on the hour, if not minute, every fricken day.

Word to Corcoran: you'll get more customers with realistic prices. The buyers with money are the educated buyers. They shop around, they know the playing field, they read blogs, forums and e-groups.

If this were in Carroll Gardens, what would you ask for this sorry building? 3.8 mil?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 12:58 PM

I looked quickly at this and thought the whole house was listed at 1.15 then gradually reduced to 895, and it made more sense that way.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:07 PM

it's not a house, it's not an apartment building, it's a tenement. I thought that was an inexpensive housing type?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:15 PM

Funny, 1:07. But Boreum Hill is near Carrol Gardens. Fuuugghheettaboutittt!!!

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:16 PM

I think this is a fine buy in a nice building. If you folks do not like this tyoe of housing go move to Florida or New jersey in a Nice Piece of shit ranch house and Have fun. everytime something come up you people have a problem with it. To me it sounds like the only readers lately are from RENTERS.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:37 PM

1:37 I AGREE... I wish I could afford I buy in a sec... Not sure what exact price should be but layout looks sweet

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:40 PM

1:37 are you the broker? You sound like a retard and only a retard would price that at 900 PSF

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:42 PM

Splitting a brownstone 4 ways...guess this is a solid alternative when you can't buy an entire one. Just not sure even after the renovations the place is still worth it.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:55 PM

Where's RENTERS? Somewhere in Jersey?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 1:58 PM

1:55 you can buy an entire brownstone in Bed Stuy for 700,00

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:00 PM

I guess the real question is whether a basic parlor level floor through apartment (modest extension on the back) in Boerum Hill is really worth 965K. If it is, then all the other prices are more or less in line (cheaper as you go up the stairs, and more expensive for sole access to garden and basement).

BTW, the third of square footage for the most expensive unit appreas to be subterranean. not on the ground floor.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:01 PM

1:42... I personally rather live in a 4unit brownstone than a huge building...

I a mnot sure about the prices but it looks sweet...

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:02 PM

2:02 then buy it ask. I double dare you. Or are you Yeller? :)

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:06 PM

2 br 1 ba apartments around there rent for about $2300 a month. Carrying costs on this place are about $5000 a month. That's absurd -- twice as much to buy as to rent!! Needs to come down by at least 1/3 to make any sense.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:07 PM

1:42 no I am not a broker. But everyone on this board has gone over the edge. When something comes up EG: (Crime) there will be all this talk about how it has gone up. Meanwhile Crime is down to Levels that The greatest Police Minds can't explain, but all the People that Rent will come out and Complain. If they are so sick of all this why would they stay ? just move to Florida, or Nebraska, or better Yet North Dakota is great no? How about Polluted LA? As a Matter of Fact when you think of it there is no Better Place than NYC, now Is there? NA It's NYC, London, Paris, Rome and that will all for now.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:07 PM

1:42 no I am not a broker. But everyone on this board has gone over the edge. When something comes up EG: (Crime) there will be all this talk about how it has gone up. Meanwhile Crime is down to Levels that The greatest Police Minds can't explain, but all the People that Rent will come out and Complain. If they are so sick of all this why would they stay ? just move to Florida, or Nebraska, or better Yet North Dakota great no? How about Polluted LA? As a Matter of Fact when you think of it there is no Better Place than NYC, now Is there? NA It's NYC, London, Paris, Rome and that will all for now.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:08 PM

Hey 1:37

You bet, I AM a renter. And I pay very below market for my place. And I am ready to buy, this year.

But not with Corcoran and not at this truly retarded prices.
No, I have no intentions of moving out of Brooklyn. You are stuck with me...

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:18 PM

This person is SO obviously the broker - and I am not usually someone who cries broker. I mean - NO ONE, simply no one, except the seller or broker, would call these layouts "sweet" or suggest these prices were even mildly reasonable.

BTW 2:07 - 2 bedrooms in this area go for more like $3000. I know a lot of people out there don't "get" boerum hill, but it is actually pretty fancy in terms of the people it attracts and the rents it charges.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:20 PM

No I am not the broker. Sorry . You are delusional but then again so is brownstoner.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:27 PM

Oh my, I am IN LOVE with the serial CapitaliZer! The greatest Police Minds? So, the chimps were busy?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:30 PM

Boerum Hill is a Beautiful area. All of BococA is BTW.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:31 PM

Hey Jonathon why did you not show the pictures on corcoran.com? They are on it, gee they actually look good. Why are you discussing price reductions without evidence of the actual listings Brownstoner?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:32 PM

no way on the 3k for a 2bed. You can easily find a nice 2bed for under 2500 in the area. I was looking a month ago and found plenty in the 2300-2500 range.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:34 PM

Are these located near subways? If so can anyone tell me which ones?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:34 PM

2:18 you big shot... why not throw an offer on it just to see... WHat do you think its worth?

Personally I live in 75 smith but I think that polace is nice and if you think its worth 600k put a # out there u JOKE instead of bitching like a lil biatch

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:38 PM

I live on the same block as 402 Pacific, and it is a very nice block. It is pretty much in subway heaven, being near the F/G, A/C, 4/5, 2/3, B, D, Q, and whatever else stops at DeKalb and Pacific & 4th.

Having watched the development, it appears the devloper did a quality job on what started out as a very unpromising gut job.

My neighbors and I think those condos are a whole lot of dough, but then again we've always been shocked at what people pay. Prices in Boerum Hill just keep going up and up.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:43 PM

2:38PM

That is all people do on this site that is why the web master has a flea market? He needs to constantly try new and different things to be a bottom feeder and thus he has a flock of really really far out and bizarre people who bitch all day.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:45 PM

Thank you 2:43 PM do you know where these listings can be viewed online? It appears that they are not accessible through brownstoner.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:49 PM

we def. have the broker or the owner on this thread. Hook line and sinker, lets real this fish in!

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:55 PM

2:34 - Well I guess it depends on how you define "nice." I always was looking for two bedrooms that a family of four could live in, and for that you wouldn't be paying less than 3000.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 2:59 PM

GO to corcoran ID 1220364.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:08 PM

Corcoran one word, Malfeasance!

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:08 PM

I live around the corner and have seen the market for full Browntones go to $2.0+ mm. I'd rather buy a full house (i.e. duplex + 2 rentals) than one of these condos. If you buy a house you're getting $2,500 for each of the rentals you've got $6OK a year of base year rental income which could service about $800K-$900K of mortage. That puts the cost of your parlor duplex at $1.1-$1.2 mm, which seems better than a condo floor through at a slightly lower price.

P.S. I think the renovation looks good, but the layout is odd. One of the 2 bdrooms in each apartment opens right into the kitchen.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:08 PM

too much money.

I can buy a 2 bedroom in brooklyn heights for less than 950

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:09 PM

Not everyone wants a whole brownstone.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:17 PM

2:59 -- I don't think a family of four could _comfortably_ live in any of these except maybe the ground/basement apartment. The bedrooms don't seem that large on the layouts, so even if two kids do share, it will feel relatively tight. (I guess one could give the kids the large bedroom in the front, but even so it seems tight for 4 to live comfortably).

And I think 2:34 is right taht back in March there were some decent (not gigantic, but equivalent to these) 2BR's for about 2400-2500 in Boerum Hill. Admittedly, they were not high end newly renovated, so that may be the differnece on which you are focusing. I think good size 2BR is probably 2800 or so in B Hill (although I always think there is a chance for a spike in May/June and September, when more people are looking to move).

I think your better argument would be to say that the real price difference between renting a "nice" 2 BR apartment in B HIll for $2800 and buying this apartment is only $800 after taking the mortgage interest tax deduction.

The counter-argument would be that a renter would rather keep their $190K downpayment invested elsewhere (in what I'd like to know)and live in a decent apartment with a LL to handle all the maintenance issues, not worry about how to have enought cash on hand to pay the monthly while waiting for the tax deduction, and pocket the $9600 in savings between rent and after-tax mortgage.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:23 PM

walk a couple of blocks and you can have brand new building with a doorman and gym for 700 PSF. I would like this at 550 PSF

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:24 PM

only an asshole would invest a million dollars in a walk-up apartment in a 4-unit condo in Brooklyn in 2008.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:31 PM

i rent a place down the street on flatbush thats much larger and its $3200 a month.

scamola.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:32 PM

Yea move into a Doorman building then watch your maintance fees go thru the Roof. I would rather just pay my mortgage keep my money and walk up 4 flights.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:35 PM

3:35 you pay your money on this and watch as you go upside down on the mortgage

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 3:53 PM

this neighborhood is half ghetto. $650 psf would be a stretch. next.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:05 PM

if the buyer wants crack and they would have to be smokin it if they bought this they can walk just 3 blocks to the PJ's to score at any hour of the day.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:21 PM

4:21 you talk about the Pjs what nabe don't have PJ's ? tell me Park slope are you kidding me, the same Project people are walking thru the nabe all day, they go to school there. You are so dumb. Just because you can't afford these condos you bash the area. Get real and move to New Jersey Or better Yet try South Carolina you Idiot Fool.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:45 PM

4:45 there are good projects and bad ones. Those are some dangerous PJ's. If you had ever been to Brooklyn you would know.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 4:50 PM

3:23 - i'm actually not making an argument for these apartments. I think they suck and would never in a gazillion years reccommend that someone buy one. I'm just saying what the cost of renting an apt with decent sq footage would be (don't care about the finishes). Of course these apts would all be hell with two children, although know many who live in places this size. In 2003 a garden apt floor through of a brownstone cost around $415,000 - that sounds about right to me!

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:30 PM

Seems like they are hoping that people will pay a hefty premium for a place that looks old style brownstone from the outside, but clean modern loftville from the inside. I think they will have to make another cut of 10-20 percent for these to sell. Here is a link to the Corcoran pix (which seem to be used for all the apartment in the building.)

http://www.corcorangroup.com/property/photoTour.aspx?Region=NYC&Listingid=1220369

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:33 PM

Has any one of you commenting on the layouts or prices or quality of this project actually been to see it?

How many of you live in 22' x50' brownstones,

How many have any idea what it takes to bring a building back from imminent structural COLLAPSE. Let me see one of you put up $300,000 just to save a Landmark building SHELL. But for this developer, DOB would have ordered HPD to raze this building.

NYC would be a mess if it was depending on most of you to re-develop it. The reality of acquisition prices and construction costs prohibit $550 per square foot sellout prices in all but fringe areas. If any of you think this is a fringe area then we are all wasting our breath here.

And no I am not the developer I am just his architect, but i am proud of this project and would have been proud to be the developer also (I often am both).

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:45 PM

I don't think people are dissing the work that was done, they are simply saying that it is overpriced. Time will tell.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 5:54 PM

hey 5:45 i like the work you did it just wont sell. I think it is so far off the mark but keep us posted

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 6:10 PM

I am the other architect that worked on this project and i am also very proud of the design and the quality of the work.

keep in mind that the original building is 22' x 50'. This makes a big difference in the actual room sizes. (the plans can be deceiving) go to an open house and see if the units are too small for a family.

as for the "modest" addition. Landmarks wanted it to be even smaller and denied the proposed penthouse addition. (another crap shoot in the development process that involves risk and affects cost / profits)

Remember, a year ago the neighbors, the papers and this blog were all convinced the owner was tearing down a landmark. let's give him the credit he deserves for doing what he said he would.... that is save a landmark building AND do a high quality renovation.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 6:26 PM

Good work here saved a Landmark Great. To those that think this is anything but good should move out of NYC

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 7:07 PM

if 1 of the 4 owners loses his job and can't pay, you are in deep shit.
if 2 of the 4 go belly-up, you are looking at personal bankruptcy muchacho.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 7:29 PM

Hey Architect, the negatory landmarks ruling wasn't a "crapshoot." You always had zero chance of getting a PENTHOUSE on top of a house in a landmarked block. A crapshoot has some positive odds. Like the pricing, there seems to be some mathematical errors here.

I appreciate what the developer ultimately did, but I'm still convinced that he intended to "accidentally" demolish the place and was prevented from doing so only by swift action on the part of his (soon to be ex-) neighbors.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 8:57 PM

You are all going to be so sorry these are gone at this price. Stop fooling yourselves, what are you going to bitch about after these are sold? The price of tulips, gold, hash?

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 9:44 PM

I have read this site for 4 yrs. It has evolved into a bunch of ass-scratching, anti-social morons without an ounce of interesting commentary. Every 'non-conforming' opinion is shit upon! You have successfully driven every intelligent, objective paticipant from this site and all that remains are the far fringes of both opinions. No one with a constructive opinion gives a shit anymore! They're all gone, and now you can rant and rave about your half-assed, uninformed opinion on Bklyn real estate!! Have fun!!!

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 10:09 PM

Absolutely wrong wrong wrong!

I lost many hours of sleep over the structure (or lack thereof) in this building. 3x8 joists at 24 to 32 inches on center spanning 22 feet with at least 1/3 over-stressed to actual (not probable) failure.

It would have been simple to just let it run its course and watch DOB order an emergency HPD total demolition. Instead, the owner and I ran ourselves ragged and took on way more liability in an eventually successful effort to save it. If the previous poster were right about the owner's intentions, why would we bother? And what would we put back in its place? It was still a landmark district and any design would have to be approved by LPC. So how would demolition have been better for us?

This owner has done a previous LPC project and has another in development. I have three more projects going before LPC this year, so why on earth would we want to antagonize the Commission?

As far as the penthouse not being approved on a landmark block, again crapshoot is just wrong! They are approvable and had the building at 400 pacific not been missing (allowing a skewed view of the proposed penthouse through the slot), I believe this one would have been approved too.

As for deep shit, what are you talking about? if one or two owners can't pay the condo maintenance how does that sink the others? Their banks would foreclose and would have to make the board whole for unpaid heating & lighting bills out of proceeds. These are not coops.

BTW, don't think that this building was built any worse than the rest of the buildings in the row. It wasn't, they are all under-built and over-stressed. There were no more than 4 or 5 anchors from the floor framing into the party walls which are all only 8" thick with no footings at all, sitting directly on the dirt. Also don't think that because someone leveled your floor with 2x4's and plywood that the under-designed floor and roof framing has been resolved.

And hey negatory, FYI the "swift action of his neighbors" as you called it only slowed us down in rescuing this building. Maybe that delay is what made it look like a demolition project for so long and not he restoration that it actually was.

As far as your psf prices, believe it or not, quality sells and people will pay more for finishes and spaces that they like. Time will tell what the units actually sell for but comparing these units to $550 psf units 2 years ago is apples and radishes.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 10:09 PM

10:09 -- Why did you lose sleep over the lack of support? From the casual walks by the house when it was being demo'd/reno'd, it looked like an almost complete tear down inside, with the facade preserved. I think most neighbors assumed that steel was being put into place inside.

As it should be, frankly -- as you note, townhouses are overstressed (although surprisingly few fail in any given decade, which probably means that the tolerances have a nice margin that no one thinks about) and when a house is as bad as that house appeared, there's no reason not to replace the entire skeleton structure with steel.

I assume the penthouse you described was set back so that it was not visible from the street excpet for the empty lot next door. What would have been really sweet here would be to combine the old facade and build next door to create a 44 or 50 foot wide builind with a townhouse facade but with 4 to 6 nice apartments inside no longer shoehorned to the townhouse configuration.

And I agree that people will pay for finishes and quality, but I don't know if there are that many people who want this type of living at that price of over $200 psf over comparables. At that price many people would rather get more space and just redo the fixtures themselves to their own taste.

Also, maybe you (or the other architect) are right that the second bedroom will feel bigger than it appears on the plans so that 2 kids will fit comfortably in these apts, but I dunno, I think this the buyers most likely to seek something like this will be childless couples (or maybe an older couple with one child). Once 2 children enter the picture, I think most families are going to look for more space/better schools.

It probably needs to come down a little more, or just sit there until the perfect 4 buyers appear.

Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 10:53 PM

this is condo?
great!
I have been looking for a nice new place for my girls (maassage and escort). This will do very well. love condos. no questions, no problem!

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 11:04 AM

Wow, brownstoner maybe you should stick to flea marketing.

Posted by: guest at May 2, 2008 1:57 PM