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May 30, 2008
Taking the Pulse on Anonymous Commenting
We've been getting more and more requests from readers to eliminate anonymous commenting. (The topic has also been on the front-burner because of a certain article this week.) There are clearly major flaws with a system that allows commenting without accountability, but doing away with it carries its own set of drawbacks in the form of diminished information flow, opinion and overall energy on the site. We're curious to know how the community feels about the issue so please take a moment to fill out this survey and chime in below.
Thanks,
Mr. B
p.s. Just to clarify, just because you register, and comment under, a username, does not mean that your true identity is on display for the world to see. It means we can easily block a disruptive commenter, or contact him/her by email about bad behavior. It also means that other readers can begin to associate comments over time with a particular online identity, theoretically improving the ability to carry on discussions.
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Comments
The only reason I prefer having others logged in is that it makes conversations in comment threads easier to follow. With long (30+) comment threads, its difficult to keep track of who said what at 11:42 and why 9:38 has an issue with 6:45. Especially when 6:45 may or may not have been the poster behind the comment at 7:13!
But in reality, it isn't a situation that I lose sleep over. I'd much prefer it if you fixed up the problem with repeat posting of comments. If you need a hand with your technology, let me know. I can help with that sort of stuff.
However, if you need help with custom newell post design, get in touch with 8:13, I hear he/she is a master.
Posted by: kedalb at May 30, 2008 10:30 AM
Registering to comment at websites on a work computer is something I would rather not do.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:31 AM
I don't think they'll ever be eliminated. You'll just transform the anonymous commenter to more garbage registrants commenting.
Half the people with usernames have zero info filled out on their profiles now!
Posted by: moreteasir at May 30, 2008 10:37 AM
I support registered usernames. The key is to not allow multiple username abuses ("sockpuppets").
I think that at least as many people are turned off by what transpires in anonymity as you might lose through required registration. The difference is that I think the quality of the interchange will go way up.
And with required registration, you could determine from an IP search whether the What really lives in the "ghetto" or in Lodi, NJ....;)
Posted by: roberto at May 30, 2008 10:38 AM
i like the sign-in for the reasons kedalb listed, as well as accountability. but i wonder how badly it will impact the "discourse" on your site. it seems that anonymous posters account for about 90% of the postings these days.
it wasn't that long ago that there were a bevy of regular posters who signed in and had civil discussions, one rarely sees any of those folks posting with any regularity anymore. i sometimes wonder if it has to do with the aggressive "guests" who can be pretty nasty at times...
Posted by: benno at May 30, 2008 10:38 AM
If you want to build a true community and if you want to cut down on the crap that's posted, be rid of the guest commentor (which is the way I comment). This is a well read site and I think serious users will sign up
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:39 AM
If can please fix my log-in for The What. When I try to log-in I get the error message
Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at /home/sites/www.brownstoner.com/web/mte/plugins/Profile/profile.pl line 1231.
If you can fix this I will have no problems logging in
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 10:41 AM
I do not wish to register with this blog. If commenting is blocked for guests I will not comment.
I find some of the least useful comments are posted by the some of the registered users.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:41 AM
As long as the outrageously long comment posts (you know, the ones that have been popping up lately composed of repeatedly supercopied stuff from other articles or posts) are blocked, I don't care whether people sign in as "guest" or with a login.
Perhaps simply imposing a reasonable size limit on posts would do the trick?
Posted by: Emigre at May 30, 2008 10:45 AM
I would prefer to have everyone logged in. In general, it leads to a more civilized debate, when comments can be attached to a name.
Posted by: kuroko at May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
You tried once and it failed. Don't do it again. Most of the people clamoring for logins are just people that aren't comfortable on the internet to begin with.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
Mr Brownstoner:
After reading your blog for about a year, and as a new resident of Clinton Hill, I have one comment about your comments: they perfectly echo your own writing.
The comments on this blog are often snarky, inflammatory, contentious, self righteous, and frankly not worth reading, at least not for informational benefit. They accurately mirror your own complaining, doubtful tone, in particular when you write about housing prices and quality of houses. Your readers post acerbic comments because your posts are often exactly that: sour.
If you're looking to change the tone on this website, you might remove anonymous posts, but you also might modify your own tone. I'm sure if you do both you'll find the decorum increases dramatically.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
I think as with any message board, there will be a small but vocal minority who will make up the bulk of the discussion but that doesn't necessarily discourage everyone else from chiming in. I tend to post as guest just because I'm too lazy to sign in. I do like the idea of disallowing more than 2-3 user names per IP address (allowing for the fact that more than one person in a household may participate in the conversation.)
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:48 AM
I do not think you should eliminate guest comments.
First off, many of the most inane and idiotic posts made on this site are made by registered users.
Second, there's nothing to stop someone from registering under different usernames. (You might think you could prevent this by tracking IP addresses or something similar; but then, if this were effective you could simply ban troublemakers outright. Mark my words, eliminate guest commenters and you will not be able to stop those same commenters from registering under different usernames.
Third, the last time you required registration, the overall quality of the site suffered. Most of us felt like we were sitting in someone else's living room.
Need I go on?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:51 AM
10:48 hits the nail on the head. My sentiments exactly.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:52 AM
Brownstoner tried requiring registration in the past and commenting subsequently slowed to a trickle. In the end, it boiled down to 7-8 commenters talking to each other. After three weeks of this, brownstoner reinstated anonymous commenting and traffic promptly increased to previous levels.
Besides, whether commenting as a guest or a registered name, 99.9% of posters remain anonymous. I don't think that having a name helps the dialogue flow any easier - either way, you typically have to re-read the content of a previous post in order to comprehend the debate at hand.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:52 AM
I agree with Benno. It seems that the vast majority of posters are not signed in, and I would hate to see a loss of that input. Well, at least most of the input.
I have no trouble with the aggressive posters either. They can be rather easily defended against and people are certainly entitled to their opinions, however daft they may be. ;)
Posted by: Nokilissa at May 30, 2008 10:54 AM
"I would prefer to have everyone logged in. In general, it leads to a more civilized debate, when comments can be attached to a name."
I have buy a new computer monitor! I spayed coffee over this one!
LMMFAO!
Yeah Riight!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 10:55 AM
10:48 writes "The comments on this blog are often snarky, inflammatory, contentious, self righteous, and frankly not worth reading, at least not for informational benefit." and is a perfect example of not worth reading!!!!
Sign in or not doesn't really matter, its not going to boost their IQs as posters!!
That said, there have been a few good ideas here:
1. Limit the length of a comment
2. Disallowinging more than X user names per IP address
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 10:55 AM
In my opinion, requiring registration now would be equivalent to victory for the troll. We should fight this jerk, not surrender.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:56 AM
the reason people don't want to register is because they shill their own posts with impunity. it's superlame in any case. so forcing users to register means fewer comments? bring it on. i long for the day i can read a post about affordable housing in east new york and not have to read "1001 reasons park slope is better than your neighborhood."
if you're worried about registering on a work computer, LOG OUT when you're done. if you can't figure out how to do this, please ask your grandchildren for help. sheesh.
what i would really love is a commenting system that posted IP addresses with each comment. THAT would be interesting!
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at May 30, 2008 10:56 AM
Yes. Get rid of anonymous posting. This site is informative, but I often find myself logging off in disgust after seeing yet another non-informative racist/sexist/homophobic/gloating eighty-comment rant. Your site is not encouraging helpful discourse.
Posted by: madison_st at May 30, 2008 10:58 AM
I would never register on the site--partially because I am at work and partially because it annoys me. If eliminate anonymous posting it will be a boring chat between the handful of diehards.
Things were much better when anonymous commenters were allowed to personalize their names. Having 800 "guest" comments is annoying, but when we could make up our own tags it was much easier to follow the discussions.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:00 AM
There is clearly a mentally ill person doing the big cut-and-paste posts and the "slow day brownstoner" auto-monologues. If he's on the subway platform we can ignore him - here its more difficult. I think restricting post size and multiple posts from the same address within 5 mins might help. And moderator deleting of posts should be kept quick and simple.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:00 AM
Having been one of the old regular posters, benno, that is exactly why i stopped posting under my user name. And when I did register, the troll simply counterfeited it by adding a space before the name. I was not only constantly harassed (as have been quite a few others) but links to disgusting websites were posted using my name.
I'm one of those asking for a good registration system. You don't have to eliminate the guest post, but at least you can see who is a fake. Still, trolls will have their day. At least have a moderator who constantly checks- I thought yesterday was awful with the resident troll posting miles of garbage text on nearly every thread. Stopped the conversations cold every time. As far as profiles go, the typekey system is awful. If you don't know about this sort of thing you can inadvertently post personal information publically- for this and because they have no security features built in, they are a lousy registration system.
the other, more important factor is that cyberstalking and harassment are crimes and The malicious harassment of the troll(s) can be criminally prosecuted. take note Mr. B- you have a real case. Some of the trolls have posted personal info on others, any kind of registration a way to track them. Even if they use a rolling IP address, or post no profile info, they can be tracked through their isp. trust me, they can.
The first time registration was tried, it seemed to stop people from posting or saying what's on their minds. I think that would have been temporary and by now we would still be having our- er- lively - discussions but on a higer level. At least a moderator could get rid of the worst stuff.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:01 AM
i would not comment any longer, if guest posting was eliminated.
as it is, i've already lost quite a bit of interest in this website. the quality seems lacking in the past 3 months.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:02 AM
It would help if your password recovery system functioned. I've tried multiple times and everytime I paste the new password in I get "Error: Unknown user". I've been posting as guest becuase of it.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:02 AM
Awww, What. How sweet.
Nice to have you with us as we debate the relative merits of signing in.
And how is it that you determined the gender of coffee?
Posted by: Nokilissa at May 30, 2008 11:06 AM
I don't mind guest comments. But it takes more time to moderate and pull the spam and over-the-top abusive posts, as well as those long repetitive cut-and-paste jobs. Setting up comments to avoid multiple posts will help. And quickly blocking IPs when appropriate. BTW, why don't you decide what is out-of-line and post your policy? Sure, some people will object to any "censorship", but at least you will be upfront about the rules. I post on other boards where it is clearly stated that threats and personal attacks are off limit, but you can be as passionate as you like about the subject of the thread.
And benno, it's true that the atmosphere has drastically changed since the site began.
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 30, 2008 11:09 AM
I would no longer comment if asked to sign in. I would still follow site, but would choose to stay out of the conversation.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:12 AM
By the way, every time I comment now, my post gets held. So what it that about? Not the first time, but every time. And I have posted hundreds of comments. Weird.
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 30, 2008 11:13 AM
I miss the REAL The What. This poser What is lame.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:16 AM
Bxgrl beat me to most of what I was going to say (and who said more and better than I would have).
11:02, I agree with your observation, but what's made me lose interest is the degeneration in the quality of the discussion on the boards.
My own belief is that if you require registration, the people who are serious about commenting will still comment (including, unfortunately, people who are serious about their malice), but it'll be easier to weed out those miscreants. I also suspect that it'll discourage those who'd otherwise carelessly lob in "my neighborhood is better than yours"-style comments.
Posted by: ProfRobert at May 30, 2008 11:18 AM
why 11:12?
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 11:19 AM
I agree with 11:00 - allow anonymous posting with a name - like the old days - addresses almost everyone's concerns - except for the troll posting irrelevant stuff
and I also agree with 11:02 - I cant log in if I tried - it doesnt recongnize my registered name and if I try to re-register I never get (even in spam) the confirmatory email. - in sum - you registration system is seriously broken.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:20 AM
The diff between guest and logged in is really not that great- it causes a few extra keystrokes. You can mitigate any trouble by asking the user to log in as part of of submitting comments- inline, on the same page. The separate log in screens are a bad way to go.
allowing a 'flag this post' feature like craigslist would help you and this site
threats by people who say they won't comment if logged in shouldn't be taken that seriously- others will still comment and read. Many will just switch to logging in- if you're depending on spam comments and trolls for page hits, then that's a different story, and a different problem
maybe you do some of these arlready but worth mentioning:
-impose a length limit on the comments
-check that your logins aren't originating from different IP addresses, and log people out if they are
-recommendations or rankings of commenters that would encourage people to make useful comments, like wikipedia or linked in might promote better site activity.
-it's your site- not really a democracy- so pulling comments, editing comments, blocking IDs, etc should be done at your discretion without fear. at the end of the day, you need to encourage readbility and usability- why are people loggin in? To read obscenity? Or to find useful info on brownstone brooklyn and house improvement? You decide- then make your site funciton the way you want. Right now, you seem to be benefitting just as much from the negative commenting (at least in the media)-
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:22 AM
Without the participation of so many guests this particular host probably wouldn't have had a party exciting enough to write an article about.
x
guest
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:23 AM
anon posting actually gets more honest posts. Most are not intelligent, but they are not edited for an audience as much as logged in users are. It might be ugly and a waste of time at times, but it is much more real.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:23 AM
"I miss the REAL The What. This poser What is lame."
Nope nope! Brownstoner has lifted the block on my IP address and for that I will keep the profanity down. Now some times I may go off my meds but, if you keep cursing people WILL tune you out! Even for me it's a bit too much. So people I'm not shiczoid or nothing, just chilling.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 11:26 AM
Please DON'T eliminate guest commenting. Isn't there a way to fix the problem without eliminating anonymous comments?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:26 AM
I think anonymous commenting should be eliminated. It takes less than 60 secs to register a username...
Posted by: qis4quincy at May 30, 2008 11:26 AM
Not surprisingly, I vote for requiring registration. I believe the advantages (as stated by others above) far outweigh the disadvantages. Greater accountability for comments, increased hesitance to attack others, ease of tracking who said what are biggies and I think it would increase the interest and neighborhood feel and certainly not drive away true fans of the site, both current guests and bold typers.
"I spayed coffee over this one!" You just made Bob Barker proud, fake What. Good one, Nokilissa!
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 11:27 AM
I would register if registration worked properly.
[shelltoe]
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:28 AM
As of right now, I rarely comment on Brownstoner due to the fact that there are so many morons on here hiding behind guest accounts.
I've noticed that, in general, named posters are less likely to troll, to post racist / homophobic / sexist etc and ad hominem attacks, and to spend more time defending their points of view, as opposed to merely running their mouths. On the other hand, anonymous posters tend with much more frequency to post garbage.
I think that requiring registration would lead to a lower volume of higher quality discussion. In other words, quality over quantity.
Posted by: kingstonlounge at May 30, 2008 11:28 AM
I am actively searching for a house in brownstone brooklyn. I look at houses every weekend. I am constantly talking to brokers, architects, my lawyer, mortgage brokers friends in finance, any plumber/electrician/etc I meet. I also come to this and other websites regularly for information. Only on this website, with easy anonymous posting, do I share the information I gather during my own search. If I have to log in, I won't comment.
I'm not bragging, saying I know everything you need to know. My point is that there are many people like me. We are people who for 3 months to 2 years (ugh) will be actively engaged in a hunt and will therefore have info to share. We are different and therefore have something else to contribute than the people who spend time on this site because it's their hobby.
From the time I've spent here I have gathered that these are people who just like to talk about these kind of properties. For some they are engaged in an ongoing rehab, for others it's related to their work, but for many it's just their thing. Many of these people seem to log in and make this part of their social life.
I'm sure there are plenty of people like me, on the hunt, who have registered. There are probably even people who come here regularly as a hobby who do not login. I just think there is some correlation between logging in and purpose in using this site. I think, therefore, that forcing registration will cut out a portion of the posting population that has something unique to offer.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:30 AM
no system is perfect but i think eliminating anonymity helps more than it hurts.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:30 AM
Are you people serious? " I think anonymous commenting should be eliminated." How are you going to do that? It is the internet; we are all anonymous. Do you think my name is really Pipecock?
Posted by: Pipecock at May 30, 2008 11:33 AM
best comment yet today Pipecock!!!!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 11:36 AM
What everyone here should realize is that if do not pay for your own ip address then your address may change at anytime. This would be the case if you get basic Time Warner internet service or from any other similar isp. There's really no way to block someone consistently by ip address.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:36 AM
Someone made this comment a couple days ago and I thought it was worth posting here because I completely, 100% agree....
***
I post, usually to offer information or advice based on my experiences, though very occasionally I can be just a tad sarcastic (though someone once replied that they loved me for one of them, so the comments must be apprecited by someone or someones). And no way do I want to create a login - I wouldn't post if I had to.
This is why: I see the login thing as creating an identity of sorts, maybe the actual poster's personality, but sometimes (it sure seems) some sort of made-up personality made just for posting on this site (or this and other sites.)
I find the identities annoying - I want to read (and post) information that stands on its own and isn't connected to a personality, a name, or that person's previous history of posts. (Sure, there are some guest posters who are annoying, but it is easy to disregard them.) I like information, analysis, and opinion for its own sake, not based on the who the poster is (or is pretending to be - which is all you can really say for an anonymous login anyway.)
I agree that with required logins the site would turn into a converstion between a few boring people (as other websites with comments I read have) and lose whatever usefullnes the comments and forum sections currently have.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:38 AM
Pipecock, you would likely be surprised at some responses to your last question...
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 11:39 AM
"The only reason I prefer having others logged in is that it makes conversations in comment threads easier to follow."
Exactly, that and G-forbid we might want to start dialogs in multiple threads with known posters, no just that darn guy "guest."
Add the registration again, please!
Posted by: Action Jackson at May 30, 2008 11:39 AM
Daveinbedstuy and Biff Champion are registered and they produce 60% of the garbage on this website...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:41 AM
I liked registration when it first started, because it gave everyone a concrete identity and made them accountable for their comments. It was a smaller community then, though, and Brownstoner seems to want a larger site where more people drop in and out, instead of a smaller group with an unhealthy interest in brownstone Brooklyn (wasn't that or something similar the original tagline for this site?)
If you are focused on the larger site, it becomes more important to limit the spammers and post size, and post and enforce some basic rules of discourse. Censorship be damned - without some moderating oversight, this site is becoming like Curbed, where everyone vies to post the most sarcastic/nasty comment and adds nothing intelligent to the discussion.
Posted by: zeebee_in_bklyn at May 30, 2008 11:41 AM
The only problem is that "lower volume of higher quality" would mean less advertising revenue for brownstoner, something he is probably loathe to risk now that the site has grown so much.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:42 AM
I find comments by many registered users to be offensive. Forcing everyone to register will not keep people on topic, make them less offensive, limit personal attacks, or stop any of the other problems.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:42 AM
Bxgrl has it right on!!!
I think people should be honorable and stand behind what they say, not attack anonymously. But would registering really change anything more than the name at the bottom?
I'm kinda old fashioned, in the if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it style.
There needs to be an HR rep for these blog comments! Post a policy.
Posted by: KIM at May 30, 2008 11:43 AM
Oh, one more thing... I ALWAYS put my name to every thing I do! Why you ask? Because if you believe in something then take a stand for it! Not one time I posted any anonymously! I always stand behind what I write!
Charlie Chaplain entered in Charlie Chaplain look alike contest. He came in third.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 11:43 AM
We made it to 52 comments without a direct insult until the first attack, made by a guest at 11:41... Love the stats, by the way, curious how long you spent researching that.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 11:47 AM
Daveinbedsty, biff champion, and jerri blank hijack posts all the time and take them off topic and offend me with thier sexist conversations. Putnamdenizen is frequently just nasty. Polemicist is also rude. Bob marvin is tedious. And don't get me started on Ysabelle.
Forcing registration is not going to force people to be courteous. You cannot legislate taste or tact.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:47 AM
How did you come up with 60% 11:41? please site the statistics.
You just posted with garbage that added nothing to resolving the subject at hand.
But we're glad you're reading our posts. I am taking the liberty of including Mr. Champion here as well.
Keep up the good monitoring. Sorry you can't login at work.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 11:47 AM
But 11:30 if you are just "guest" as opposed to "househunterhipster" how can we put your comments in context? And perhaps because you are just "guest" I haven't noticed a slew of comments like the ones you suggest you are posting about your ongoing house hunt and conversations with electricians/lawyers/agents, etc. I just don't get the nexus between "guest" posting and your willingness to share such information.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at May 30, 2008 11:50 AM
I will reaffirm my position, as if you all were waiting, waiting I tell you, with baited breath, to hear it.
I agree with 11:24 and 11:30. Completely.
Something important, including information about houses and neighborhoods, and honest opinions, however skewed and occasionally racist/sexist, would be lost if it were a requirement to sign it.
I also find this to be a fabulous, unique sociological study which would definitely be less fascinating if the anonymous nature of so many posts were lost.
It would be like requiring votes to be public information. Or having research study surveys requiring the identity of participants. It just wouldn't work.
Posted by: Nokilissa at May 30, 2008 11:53 AM
Dave attacks people constantly!
Biff AND Dave claim any "faded type" comment is worthless. Which is an attack in and of itself...
I find both of them more annoying than the majority of guest posts.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:54 AM
Heres the thing: I don't wnat to be a member of your "community". I have infomation to contribute. I seek information from others. I don't want to make friends. I have those. If you are looking for those online, that's just sad.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:57 AM
I know for a fact that Biff comments sometimes under his registered name and other times under guest when he logs out, so what's the difference? Dave's comment at 11:47 shows just what an ahole is really is. I can't STAND most of the registered guests here and would certainly not comment any longer if it became a necessity.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:57 AM
11:47 guest, I don't think you know what "sexist" means. You should look it up. I don't recall ever making negative generalizations about men or women. Perhaps you mean "sexual"? If you're a frequent visitor, you'll know that a conversation between two bold typers is typically far more civilized than one solely between guests or some combination of guests and those who are registered. That's the reality. I'm courteous to those who are courteous to me.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 11:58 AM
I prefer logging in, and would, except I am having the same problems as Carol Gardens, and a couple of other people. When I log in, my posts are "held for approval" by the system, and then never appear. While some may say that's divine providence, it's annoying, to say the least.
I don't care if people post as guests, per se, but would like to see some site moderation to avoid seeing the sexual and personal comments that have been especially directed at me, as well as a few other people, as well as some of the other over the top nastiness that appears here regularly. I think that a disclaimer with the rules of the site, including the existence of a moderator, worked into the masthead, for all to see, would be fair warning that the free for all is over.
I can't see how that would be a deterrent for free exchange of ideas. If you can't make your point without a racist/sexist/homophobic, personal attack, obscenity laced diatribe, then you don't have a point anyway.
Montrose Morris
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 11:59 AM
11:47 has apparently no other friends since he/she has committed all of our names to memory...and spelled each one correctly I might add.
Bravo.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 11:59 AM
jerri blank doesn't post here anymore from what i can tell.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:00 PM
11:54, I don't claim all faded type comments are worthless and if you've looked around the other stories even this morning, you'll notice I've directly complimented probably around 10 posters, including guests, on their intelligent and insightful thoughts. I haven't attacked anyone - just responded to attacks. At least I try to add insight to the topics at hand, unlike others, such as yourself.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 12:04 PM
The fake "What" is such a downer...Totally seems inconsistant with the What we have grown to know and love (or Hate)
Maybe Brownstoner could somehow confirm his identity under his new "What" log in using IP address or something?
Just a thought.
Posted by: newsouthsloper at May 30, 2008 12:06 PM
Now we have putnamdenizen calling me a "hipster" in a clearly derogatory use of that label. Trust me, I am far too old to be a hipster. I am far to big for skinny jeans. However, I personally, don't resent some kid wit a good job and a bad haircut who can buy a house. I just don't want to get in a bidding war with them.
Someone please tell me how putnamdenizen's login has helped this discussion? Being able to "hold someone accountable" for their personal attacks in no way stops them from making them.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:08 PM
THE BEST COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD SO FAR ARE FADED TYPE GUESTS!!!!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:13 PM
What I have said it faded type insults don't count. This is because I don't take negative comments and attacks from guests seriously because it's impossible to know what they've contributed over a period of time and some seem to add nothing but confrontation. They have no ownership or accountability for what they say and there's no way to track the history of their posts. I have no idea if they've ever behaved civilly or added anything to any discussion. It's so easy to be a guest and put others down without having to defend oneself. That's why I prefer people register.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 12:13 PM
Biff - You take this website WAAAAAAAAY too seriously.
Please get a life.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:16 PM
i usually skip the registered and only read guest posts. some of the registered guests are really agressive and don't really talk about things i'm interested in. if i wanted to go to gay.com i would...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:17 PM
"They have no ownership or accountability for what they say and there's no way to track the history of their posts"
Biff calm down. If you take the comments on this site seriously then you need some help my friend. Take it from me! I been attacked numerous times and have the moxie to ignore it
"I have no idea if they've ever behaved civilly or added anything to any discussion. It's so easy to be a guest and put others down without having to defend oneself. That's why I prefer people register."
But I will say this: Sometimes you have nothing to say. No causes or anything relevant to the topic. Plus Biff please don't go off on me because I will not respond to them.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 12:26 PM
I also tend to skip registered comments. It's always the SAME type of argument or information. It's more fun and even informative, I'd say, to read the guest comments.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:27 PM
the anonymity makes it easier to generally dislike everyone, rather than having to remember specifically who is annoying. seems like thats the way people here would prefer it to remain...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:28 PM
i can't stand biff or dave. i skip their comments whenever possible. glad to know others feel the same
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:29 PM
I just wanted to jump back in here and say that sometimes the most "inside" info comes from people who are not regulars and are interested in just one thread. At times they wish to remain anonymous. I'd hate to miss out on their posts. (Though sometimes it gets kinda crazy, as with that fascinating thread about the nephew kicking out the old ladies on Cheever Place.)
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 30, 2008 12:29 PM
BTW, they still fighting over on that thread. And it has my favorite Brownstoner comment all time: "NO BOBY KNOWS HOW MARIES SON MARK COULDN'T WAIT TO RUMN TO THE HOUSE AFTER AN NIES DEATH AND TAKE THE CAT WITH THE CLOCK IN ITS STOMACH."
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 30, 2008 12:36 PM
11:47, "Daveinbedsty, biff champion, and jerri blank hijack posts all the time and take them off topic and offend me with thier sexist conversations."
12:16, "Biff - You take this website WAAAAAAAAY too seriously."
In an amazing display of versatility, in 29 minutes I went from being off topic to being too serious with the topic.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 12:38 PM
And you just managed to do both in the same post, Biff @ 12:38.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:41 PM
Dave - A 51 year old who lives in Bed Stuy. Hedge fund queen with a lover in Philadelphia (but they "see" other people)
Biff - A middle aged wanna be queen, with a wife and kids (clearly spends little time with either) living in Brooklyn Heights with I'm guessing zero friends.
And THAT'S why I don't want to register.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:44 PM
12:44 is exactly why I rarely bother reading comments or commenting myself.
Instead of having rational, informative discourse, the majority of comments are a mess of ad hominem attacks and lame bickering.
Removing the cover that full anonymity provides would be a step towards the amelioration of this state of affairs.
Posted by: kingstonlounge at May 30, 2008 12:55 PM
I think guest posts should be retained, but clearly some of the garbage needs to be filtered out. The pages-long comments of the past few days, for instance.
There are a lot of valid reasons for anonymous posts, most of which have already been enumerated. Guest posts do contribute to the rich dialog here, and there are typically as informative as the registered posts (sometimes more so, as anonymity can afford people frankness in certain circumstances).
Kedalb (post #1) has a good point about threads - a solution to which would be a threaded commenting system.
But for the most part, I'm OK with the Wild West atmosphere, so long as there is some sheriffing happening.
Posted by: WBer at May 30, 2008 12:55 PM
I think DaveinBedStuy and Biff Champion whacked Jerri Blank in some twisted snuff film.
Either that or Jerri is a gimp and they haven't let him out in a while.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 12:55 PM
kingstonlounge is the voice of reason. Compare that to the vitriol from 12:55 and 12:44.
Whatever one thinks of me, we're at 89 posts and counting here. Every comment directed to me means people are paying attention, except for 12:44 whose information intelligence team must have been comprised of the same individuals who swore there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. More Biff equals more hits equals more ad revenue for Brownstoner equals keeping this site running...thanks to everyone who's helped contribute to that today.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 12:59 PM
Let's face it, the only way to ensure that there's total accountability for posts is to require real names supported by 2 passport sized photos, a government issued ID, fingerprints, and a DNA sample.
Mere registration on its own will not stop a broker called "Pipecock", for instance, dissing a competitively listed HOTD by misrepresenting facts or prevent a contractor from cloaked self-promotion on the site. I have zero problem with the acidity sometimes expressed here, whether it be from registered users or guests (provided it's threat-free) and will freely admit to have engaged in it myself, usually when someone's lack of reading comprehension begets inanity. I don't think I've witnessed an on-line community, even those that require registration, where a spirited discussion doesn't often contain an insult or two.
This latest discussion arose basically because of the re-animation of the lunatic copy/paste poster and I think application of the several tech-related suggestions above would amply deal with that problem without the need to force registration on everyone.
Posted by: johnife at May 30, 2008 1:01 PM
To 10:48 (guest @ 10:48, not kuroko@ 10:48), I am very comfortable with the internet; I've posting to communities/ BBS since the late 80s and have actually designed and managed community sites. I MUCH prefer to identify people by a handle -- not by their real names or professions or ages or locations, just a handle -- for all the reasons stated above.
More importantly, being able to identify a posters instills a sense of "knowing" him/her and feeling part of a community. If I begin to understand opinions and associate them with people, it's becomes easier for me to interpret future posts because I know where they are coming from. Similarly, I can easily ignore posters that are known argument baiters.
The usefulness of the Forum would be greatly improved as people make recommendations and offer things for sale or trade. How valid is a recommendation from "guest"?
If you want to remain an anonymous insider, register as anon_insider and don't put any info in your public profile.
I'd participate a lot more if people were registered.
~ laurie
Posted by: laurie at May 30, 2008 1:12 PM
I love how people are getting all high and mighty about people getting off topic on this thread.
It's a thread about COMMENTING.
ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING is on topic on this thread you morons!!!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:12 PM
More Biff equals more hits equals more ad revenue for Brownstoner equals keeping this site running...thanks to everyone who's helped contribute to that today."
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh man, chill What!! Biff, you are a narcissistic Bastard! I was going to chill but homeboy get over yourself!
If you had anything to say about the state of Real Estate or the Economy or the politics of Brooklyn then I would say OK. You and that "other genius" Dave go off about nothing. You have zip, nada and zero one this one Biff. This gets my vote for the most retarded post ever!
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), is a personality disorder defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM IV-R), the diagnostic classification system used in the United States, as "a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy."[1]
The What (Oh man)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 1:14 PM
Biff is a kiss ass. Nothing more.
Do you remember when all he wanted was to get down Jerri Blank's pants!!??
No WONDER he/she stopped posting. Probably freaked them out.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:19 PM
Dude, you are most definately not "The What"
How many people do you think really buy your BS?
Posted by: newsouthsloper at May 30, 2008 1:21 PM
The fake What said, "Plus Biff please don't go off on me because I will not respond to them." For someone who isn't going to respond to me, it's cute how you've mentioned me extensively in two of your posts on this thread.
In any event, what's the name of the personality disorder you suffer from that makes you want to imitate the real What? Still chuckling over your quick switch from "Someday this war is GOING TO end..." after I pointed out the flaw in your imitation yesterday...
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 1:22 PM
shut up biff. in case you haven't noticed i see NO ONE coming to your defense saying that they appreciate your posts. maybe dave, but that's only cause then you two losers won't have anyone else to "talk" to.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:25 PM
From now on, you are the fake Biff.
Spread the word, everyone...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:26 PM
"More Biff equals more hits equals more ad revenue for Brownstoner equals keeping this site running...thanks to everyone who's helped contribute to that today.""
No Biff, live up to this comment homeboy!
I notice something! Ever since the NY Magazine article came out. The Asshats have been trying to racket up the BS! Like with this stupid comment here! "More Biff equals more hits equals more ad revenue for Brownstoner". I think this site will do well without Biff and The What, stupid!
"Dude, you are most definately not "The What"
How many people do you think really buy your BS?"
I don't care what you beLIEve in newsouthsloper.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: what at May 30, 2008 1:29 PM
1:25, I don't need help defending myself, thanks.
Oh, and 100 posts!
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 1:30 PM
I'm pro-anonymous commenting, for a few reasons:
* The first time Brownstoner had a registration system, some commenters inadvertently ended up giving away their real names. For instance, I now know the real name of former commenter CrownHeightsProud, who I do not believe intended his/her name to be revealed. I know that the new system is supposed not to have that problem, but I'm not about to trust it.
* When Brownstoner became reg-only a couple years ago for a little while, the comments became very like-minded and cliquish, with a relatively small group of regulars dittoing each other.
* Anonymous comments give you a wider range of views and greater latitude. I'm very conscious of my privacy online and worry that by giving away too many details gradually over time, people would be able to figure out my real identity. (Partly because I write, under my real name, for a living.)
* In general, I don't find the registered comments here to be much more credible than the unregistered ones.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:34 PM
Sorry I can't take seriously the "clarification" added about "user ids" still being "anonymous"
One supposedly anonymous user called the what was just the subject of a front page story in new york magazine. A story which speculated on his personal identity, including where he lived, his sexual orientation, his age, his profession, etc.
This is anonymous??
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:38 PM
I don't think requiring registration will do anything to increase the quality, or decrease the venom, of posts on this site. Just check out the comments on other sites where registration is required -- they contain just as many insults as we see here. After all, even with registration, we're still anonymous. And there's nothing to keep folks from creating multiple registered identities using different hotmail or yahoo e-mail addresses. Finally, I recall that the last time Brownstoner tried this, I wasn't able to log in for weeks and pretty much stopped reading the site altogether. It's also been quite annoying recently to have all of my comments held as if I were a first-time poster.
The ONLY advantage, as others have mentioned, is that it will be easier to remember who said what during the course of a discussion. If Mr. B. thinks that is a good trade off for the lower number of comments (and decreased revenue) that mandatory registration will inevitably cause, I think it's his call.
Posted by: Park Sloper at May 30, 2008 1:43 PM
they did that at gothamist
traffic dropped
and the quality of discussion is horrendous
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:43 PM
If there was a way to identify commenters as a renter or owner it would pretty much solve all problems with this site.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:45 PM
150,000 readers
One or two or three spam posters
Force 149,997 readers to register to combat three spammers?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:46 PM
People who think that user names will make people "accountable" for their comments obviously aren't very familiar with the internet. This is a blog, people. Internet identities, including user names on Brownstoner, are easier to produce than farts. They will produce zero accountability.
Besides, I have been surveying a large number of old threads and the bulk of the garbage comments come from commenters who are in fact posting under user names, not as guest. My suggestion, Mr. B, is that you take a more careful look at some of your regulars. Jettison a few of them and these other problems will resolve themselves.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 1:59 PM
1:34- I think a better registration system would have protected CHP from that happening. And most people should be aware of how much info to put there. Maybe the best answer would be to basically keep the same system- let those who want to register- with a much better registration system, do so, and allow guests. But add moderators- and set rules. I find a lot of the back and forth is healthy and fun, and real. But a lot of stuff is unnecessary and when we all get off into the insults and namecalling and garbage throwing, it does nothing for us or for brownstoner. A good moderator knows where to draw the line and that's all I'm asking. This used to be a great site for discussion and information and community- I want that back.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 2:06 PM
@bxgirl:
I agree with keeping the same system--allow people who want to register to do so and allow guest posting.
I see the value for some people in being able to track all of a certain poster's comments over time to get a sense of who they are. For me, I worried it was TOO easy to get a sense of who I am. I used to comment here (very regularly) under a handle, but realized that if you looked at my posts over time it was easier and easier to figure out who I was. (Not for the whole world, but for associates, people who read me elsewhere, etc.)
So I wasn't comfortable giving out info (about my house, my living situation, my financials) under a handle. But I can do it freely anonymously. And that kind of info about fellow Brooklynites, to me, is what Brownstoner is VERY useful for.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 2:14 PM
if you get rid of anon commenting how could the shmucks then hide from their idiocy once confirmed by future events?
Posted by: BrooklynLove at May 30, 2008 2:21 PM
At least add the ability for logged in users to toggle off guest comments. And give us avatars- people love avatars.
Posted by: Karka at May 30, 2008 2:22 PM
BrooklynLove,
They could easily create a new registration.
Step 1, go to Google and create a new gmail account.
Step 2, come to brownstoner and create a new account -- 10 minutes to a new identity...
I think the posting community at Brownstoner is too small and transient to support registration and that it really won't improve the quality of posts to make people get a username.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 2:34 PM
BrooklynLove, I agree with you and disagree with 1:59's statement that "Internet identities...will produce zero accountability." How many times have posters thrown back at you, me and most other logged in posters past opinions we've stated? That's the accountability to which I refer. Despite what others say, whether or not one uses a real name or a pseudonym, signing in forces one to own up to / be responsible for their comments, which is how it should be.
2:34, I agree with you that it's easy to create multiple registrations, but by requiring it, I still think you would see a decrease in racist, homophobic, sexist comments which are easy to post under a guest login by those sick enough to want to do so.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 2:46 PM
There are a lot more registered users among all the discussion threads today. A lot of names I've never seen before as well.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 2:54 PM
It does not force accountability in ANY way. If you want to say something outrageous and not be held accountable for it later, just create a new identity, use it to make outrageous comment, then don't reuse that identity again.
Easy as pie.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 2:55 PM
Register. If you have something to say, put a name behind it. Stand behind what you write.
I agree that it will cut down a lot of the racist stuff.
I'll admit when I really want to say something nasty I fire up another browser and log in as 'guest'
lol.
Posted by: denton at May 30, 2008 3:01 PM
denton, did you have to tell them that?? I think there are countless people here who could never have thought of that on their own. Now you have ruined it.
And I'm not being facetious!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:05 PM
denton, you're an idiot.
it was YOU yesterday who said that the 369K 1 bedroom in Windsor terrace was useless without a second half bath for "entertaining"
you are the perfect example of a registered user who holds absolutely ZERO validity in my mind.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:08 PM
2:55, yes, it's easy as pie to create a new identity, but one would really have to be unbalanced to want to say something so outrageous that they would then feel the need to have to create another email account and another identity to hide behind. Plus, one can recognize new identities from old ones. After awhile, when you see someone like, say Putnamdenizen comment, love or hate him/her, you know that he/she likely isn't going to run off and create a whole new identity after posting one controversial comment. If that was the case, I would be on my 1,000th identity by now.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 3:08 PM
Biff,
I agree the registration process does create a barrier to slow down those who enjoy making offensive comments and that limiting those would be great for the site.
I just worry that converting from an "open" to a "closed" discussion environment would throw out too much good with the bad.
I think reasonable people can disagree about this, and it really depends on your tolerance for internet jerks v. your desire to get as many viewpoints as possible.
Apparently registration was tried in the past and it didn't work out. Maybe it would be different this time?
I'd probably register if required, but I only post 1 or 2 times a week anyway...
Cheers,
2:34
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:10 PM
All of the registered posters here say their boring stuff on their handles and then sign in as guest to say their rude comments.
It's a KNOWN FACT!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:12 PM
I check in on this site daily. I weigh in from time to time (anon of course). I like the way things are currently. Brownstoner tried registering posters recently, and while the story content was the same; the commentary sucked big time.
Except for the occasional key board-thug, and race/class instigator; the way things are fine.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:13 PM
Didn't the author of the new york magazine article go back through all the posts -- even deleted posts! -- to try to piece together personal information to create a real identitiy profile of a poster that brownstoner states above in his "clarification note" "does not mean that your true identity is on display for the world to see"?
Apparently with a little time on your hands and some searches, someone can piece together your personal profile?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:20 PM
Is it really so important to create anonomous posts to post "controversial" stuff? Isnt this a real estate blog, this isnt NAMBLA or KKK is it?
Either way, I dont really care, log in or not, I flip through all of the posts spending less than 5 seconds on each before I filter it out as interesting and worth reading or not. Its just a blog folks, why are you guys so passionate on the issue (for or against)? Your posts arent going to win you a Pulitzer or prevent you from getting elected to city council.
Posted by: newsouthsloper at May 30, 2008 3:20 PM
Biff..i guess 3:09 has just joined us for the first time. He probably saw the New York Magazine article in his dentist's office.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:21 PM
"More Biff equals more hits equals more ad revenue for Brownstoner equals keeping this site running...thanks to everyone who's helped contribute to that today."
"WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh man, chill What!! Biff, you are a narcissistic Bastard! I was going to chill but homeboy get over yourself!"
Hilarious. Biff got punked by The What! Amazing. Ironically, Biff's dream is to be as popular as "The What."
I LOVE anonymous posting!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:24 PM
3:24 you must be new here after reading about The What. Aside from the fact that there are now too many What impersonators (male and female), The What is just an object for our entertainment.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:33 PM
"2:55, yes, it's easy as pie to create a new identity, but one would really have to be unbalanced to want to say something so outrageous that they would then feel the need to have to create another email account and another identity to hide behind."
And you don't think we have unbalanced people frequenting this site? Are you kidding me?
"Plus, one can recognize new identities from old ones. After awhile, when you see someone like, say Putnamdenizen comment, love or hate him/her, you know that he/she likely isn't going to run off and create a whole new identity after posting one controversial comment. If that was the case, I would be on my 1,000th identity by now."
No, he would create the fake identity before making his controversial comment so that the outrageous comment would in no way be associated with his Putnamdenizen identity. On the other hand, if Putnamdenizen wants to say something controversial and is prepared to own it...that's totally different. We don't need registration for that to happen, just a group of responsible commenters. My point was merely that registration will not FORCE anyone to be accountable. If they want to avoid accountability, there's always a way.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:35 PM
Man, The What gets written up in NY Mag; the PLG troll got interviewed on WABC radio. What next? Will the "this site had jumped the shark" guy get his own reality TV show on A&E?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:38 PM
3:35...overanalyzed, way overanalyzed. On the one hand... and on the other hand...
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:38 PM
Dave, if you think it's wrong, please explain how.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:42 PM
Some of the posters here seem to think that it's quite difficult to create a fake identity and that it would be relatively easy to use user names to track individual posters. My guess is that a fair number of you are older and don't have a tremendous amount of experience with the internet. I can assure you, though, that it is not just easy to produce fake identities, but trivially easy. Seriously, the kinds of control and accountability you guys want is not a matter of everyone's having a user name. There might be ways to achieve the kind of accountability you want, but with user names you are barking up the wrong tree.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:49 PM
3:24, um, that is not The What, ok? Please buy a clue. Hilariously, amazingly and ironically, you just punked yourself!
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 3:49 PM
Because, as much as you hate us, we; as logged in users, have integrity. More importantly though, I don't think anyone of us could actually be bothered to login, logoff, login, logoff back and forth when we want to start something up here...we just do it under our login...rile you all up, sit back, have fun with it.
Right Biff?
Right Nokilissa?
Right Putnamdenizen?
jerri blank we miss you!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:51 PM
dave and biff are just pissed they weren't on the cover of new york mag.
i'm anonymous and had TWO of my past comments in that article.
go screw each other and be done with it.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:54 PM
Friday afternoon, 132 comments...and still there will be lots of people with nothing to do on a Friday night...I bet when I check back over the weekend there'll be 250 comments here.
What scares me is that many of them will come in at 1AM, 2AM, 3 AM!!! Please, go to Union Hall or somewhere for the evening. Just don't wake John Crow and the lovely Roberta (you recent N Y mag commenters need to research that)
Please, get your pets spayed or neutered, and log in...or not...who cares.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:55 PM
I understand (and was shown) that Biff corresponded via email with a certain poster on here, and with enough information, may be able to tell you all his real identity very soon!!!
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:56 PM
Dave in Bedstuy is shooting blanks...as usual.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:57 PM
WOW...I am truly impressed 3:54
if I wanted to be in that article I would have just contacted the author...he'd been on here looking for people.
Did you have the article framed and highligh your comments?
I think you need a good dose of what you recommended over the weekend!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 3:59 PM
Dave,
I'd rather someone post a comment or two at 2am, then see 200 a day from you. Shows what a sorry excuse you are. If you spent even half this time on a worthwhile cause (since your work in Hedge Funds is also a joke) perhaps you could make the world a better place.
Maybe there's a reason why your lover doesn't want to live in the same city as you...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 3:59 PM
dave and biff have alienated nearly everyone else on here. i see no one agreeing with them, even nokillisa seems to stand her distance.
and jerri blank left them in the dust.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:03 PM
Dave, get a job. People post after-hours because they *work*. You should try it sometime (and I'm posting at work, which is why I prefer anon).
I prefer guest. It allows me to be more candid. I think the registration actually leads to more dumb back-and-forthing of the type we see from, you guessed it, good old Dave and Biff.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:04 PM
You post that same comment all the time 3:59,...you're as tedious as The What
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 4:04 PM
what does posting at work and anon have to do with each other??
I'm posting at work too.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 4:07 PM
Um 3:56, why do I find this extremely hard to believe? What further information would you need to know my real identity - how about everything? If that's not true, why don't you say one thing you know that no other individual here would already know from my posts?
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 4:08 PM
registration is only as good as the system makes it- without email vetting etc. it's pretty useless. On the other hand never write off how much info can actually be collected about you when you visit a web site or register for one.
After reading all the commentary so far (Biff and dave- you guys are getting more popular than the What!) :-) - I've come to think that the only real way to keep the worst stuff out is by a moderator. Let those who want to, register, but unfortunately it seems that the most malicious people will always find a work-around but it shouldn't be up to other posters to police the site when one of them posts obscenities or personal comments. If Brownstoner wants a better atmosphere, he needs to hire a moderator to keep on top of things. Otherwise at some point the people who really do contribute to the site and those who want to read it because it is interesting and informative will simply stop reading it. when someone's phone number is posted (and its pretty frightening that it happened), that person shouldn't have to be the one to see it and then contact brownstoner. A moderator would have caught it before it went live.
I understand a lot of good reasons to allow guest posts, (I should- I post as a guest after much harassment from the trolls), but it's become a sad free-for-all with less and less to do about brownstone Brooklyn and more and more to do with maliciousness.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:12 PM
In due time, my friend Biff. In due time.
Your arrogance is going to get you in trouble...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:14 PM
Mr. B...I will be expecting my royalty check in advance this time. Look at all these ridiculous guests that have gotten themselves into a posting frenzy because of what I've written here.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 4:14 PM
Serenity now. Serenity now.
Posted by: Pipecock at May 30, 2008 4:16 PM
bxgrl...i must have missed that one..could you explain (without names) what was the phone number issue???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 4:17 PM
dave you're posting at work? Do you work for yourself or do you work for someone else? If you work for someone else than aren't you misappropriating company time and resources?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:20 PM
Dave and Biff should realize that the more people they piss off, the more people are going to want to "out" them.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:20 PM
Gotta say, I'm baffled by all this fear of people knowing your real identity. Bloody hell, all of you must have visited hundreds of stores and restaurants where you have quite possibly said or done something controversial and a few minutes later handed over your credit card with your real name on it. How many thousands of times have you had a revealing and possibly gritty exchange of words with a co-worker, tradesman, or neighbor that knows your name and where you live? I reckon there's a parallel between this phenomenon and the fact that a lot of people feel more comfortable in handing over a credit card to a waiter they don't know from Adam than using the card online. It's new so it must be feared.
Posted by: johnife at May 30, 2008 4:21 PM
"3:24 you must be new here after reading about The What. Aside from the fact that there are now too many What impersonators (male and female), The What is just an object for our entertainment."
Your attempts to marginalize The What, because he's dissed you from time to time, are pretty sad and quite revealing. If his/her comments are purely "for out entertainment," why are you bothering to respond? I sense a green-eyed monster.
Now go post your snarky "guest" retort.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:26 PM
Yeah, if Dave and Biff work in finance as they claim, no wonder the economy's tanking. Although things may not be that busy in the mail room, I suppose...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:30 PM
That's actually quite an interesting idea. Instead of focusing on all the 'guests', instead focus on some of the regulars and how they should be reined in. I can tell you that several of the regular posters here are among the most hateful and troubling I have seen. And as for the idea of imposing length cutoffs on posts, this would pretty much ban Montrose Morris from the site.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:30 PM
"denton, did you have to tell them that?? I think there are countless people here who could never have thought of that on their own. Now you have ruined it. And I'm not being facetious!!"
"Because, as much as you hate us, we; as logged in users, have integrity."
Contradiction?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:31 PM
4:14#1, thanks for proving that your threats are idle. Not one thing to say, huh? You know nothing about me. Sorry, but I have no fear of you. You've been threatening me for awhile so I'm sure you would have done something by now if you could have. And even if you had information that wasn't available to anyone reading this, it wouldn't matter; as johnife said, there's not much you could do with that information, especially in my case.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 4:33 PM
Dave- the typekey registration did not make it very obvious that you had to opt to hide your information. If you filled in all the information for your profile and hit ok, your profile was public. It was caught immediately but not before the troll started posting really disgusting messages with the numbers and names. I'm always careful about filling in that kind of info for most sites but a lot of people thought typekey was secure and trustworthy.
johnife, it's a matter of trust. In a restaurant you trust the business to protect you (not always the case of course, but the business is accountable.
The internet is open to anyone and everything and it's like the wild west. Maybe its just the idea of the devil you know over the devil you don't?
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:34 PM
So you wouldn't mind if some of the emails that were shown to me that you wrote to a poster here were cut and pasted into this thread, Biff?
I'm more than happy to do so...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:37 PM
I think we need more threads devoted to Buju Banton.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 4:45 PM
Go ahead 4:37, I'm calling your bluff here and now. Do it or shut up once and for all...
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 4:46 PM
bxgrl....it never asked for a phone number...just the profile info thats up there now
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 5:11 PM
Hi everyone..
Guess who I am. Daveinbedstuy, BiffChampion, Nokilissa, Putnamdenizen, The What, The Whatever???
See how easy it is to register, login, become anonymous.
Posted by: Bold type guest at May 30, 2008 5:21 PM
How come we are not discussing something more politically charged like Sharon Stone?
Posted by: Bold type guest at May 30, 2008 5:25 PM
Sigh. I miss Babs.
Posted by: Carol Gardens at May 30, 2008 5:25 PM
I don't post lengthy posts just to practice my typing, 4:30. If I happen to lecture, it's because I really care about the topic. Since when is it a crime to be passionate about a cause or two? I'll take anyone droning on, even someone I vehemently disagree with, over the snarky, hurtful sarcasm that often passes for wit around here on occassion.
I do post plenty of short posts. They, like the longer ones, are there to be scrolled past, if you don't like what I'm saying, or how long it takes me to say it. I'm cool with it, either way.
Montrose Morris
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 5:29 PM
4:45..or David Allen Coe..."I just want to........."
Posted by: Bold type guest at May 30, 2008 5:30 PM
I've always liked your posts Montrose Morris. We disagreed a few times and had a back and forth once or twice but your "lecturing" is far more logical and coherent than most peoples' posting here. orry that I'm still anon here with my new login
Posted by: Bold type guest at May 30, 2008 5:34 PM
Wow Biff....sounds like you've been getting into some trouble on the side...you being defensive pretty much just let everyone know that these alleged emails do probably exist...
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 5:37 PM
sad state of affairs when individuals need to be forced to own what they say. weak.
Posted by: BrooklynLove at May 30, 2008 5:42 PM
dave- as far as I know, that's the only place it could have come from. Is it possible they changed it? there was no other way I know of that would have associated the user name and that- but again, while I'm good with computers but not a real techie.
(just to clarify- didn't happen to me personally, but I do know the person it happened to.)
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 5:50 PM
johnife...i actually prefer to use my card online than to carry it around and use it in a restaurant, etc. I used it in a restaurant on a Sunday night once and got a call from Chase on Monday evening with an unauthorized charge. I still had the card in my possession.
And no it was not a Bed Stuy restaurant so don't go down that road all of the rest of you...
BTW my card number is XXXX XXXX XXXX 8175
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 5:51 PM
Hmmmmm... this has turned into one nasty little thread.
4:03, I am definitely not holding my distance. I was working and my youngest managed to blow right through naptime today. No rest for the weary as they say.
I've already posted my .02 cents with regard to the login issue, so I'll not do it again. But I am puzzled by the idea that logging in is somehow annoying or time consuming. Don't most of us at this point have computers that simply "remember" us? All we have to do is click a login button once and off we go?
Finally, I think the threats to post Biff's email or identity are reprehensible. Please don't do it.
Peace, people, peace.
Posted by: Nokilissa at May 30, 2008 5:52 PM
I have tried numerous times to register at brownstoner. I have waited for that email and I never get it. I have literally tried 6 times. I have no choice but to post as an anon. It makes me sad to be so unwanted.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:01 PM
i think people should have the option to post as guests.
in my observation, logging-in often fosters an environment where one or two folks carry on an extended back-and-forth conversation -- but in a public forum. seems like they could do that over email. this dynamic appears to be exacerbated by an inclination on the part of some logged-in folks to respond to every single comment that is (or might be) addressed to a comment they've made.
i would also submit that logging-in, rather than reducing the hostility in a comment forum, can increase personal attacks. anyone who wants to know what i mean should simply read back through the comments to this thread. there appears to be an unfriendly and extended discourse involving some folks who are logged-in. (to those who would argue that anonymity gives the guests free license to attack the logged-in commenters with impunity, and that that's the reason they feel free to engage in personal attacks, let me say i've seen similar personal attacks based on username identity on the brooklynian boards, where all commenters are logged in.)
finally, am i the only person who simply skips posts that i don't care to read, whether uninformative, hateful, incorrect, or offensive? this alternative seems lost on some people, who would rather silence the guests altogether rather than skip over the guest posts they don't care for.
oh, i also agree this new 'the what' imposter is lame. the old 'the what' was way better.
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:01 PM
- anonymity is what provides such relief on this website - 11:38 is absolutely on target. With names, you have to be polite, which is NOT fun. This site is for venting pent up real estate - and free-floating - hostility, not for exchanging pleasantries about so-and-so's "insightful comments." When Biff and Daveinbedstuy (for example) get all lovey-dovey in their mutual admiration club it is unbelievably dull unlike when anonymous slopers and carroll-ers are hurling insults at eachother. It also immediately shuts down the thread (unless someone re-lauches it with a well placed insult).
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:02 PM
Hmm....my post didn't show up. Sorry Dave- I said that I didn't know of any other way to associate the user name with personal information except through the typekey registration. Is it possible that registration was a little different last year? I just know that the troll had a field day with that persons number, name and username.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:02 PM
6:02...despite the part about me and Biff I like your comment about restarting with a good insult...just let them be geographic insults or insults towards someone's taste, etc...lots of true asshats on here and real racists
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at May 30, 2008 6:27 PM
dave at 6:27 proves logging in is useless
in his use of unnecessary, unpleasant, and unwanted vulgar language
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 6:51 PM
Dave, I concur! With the exception of the part about you and Biff, 6:02 was spot on. It IS amusing when people get all riled up and begin to froth. And it is one of the things that keeps us interested in a thread... how did guest A get out of that one? How did Guest B come back after that attack? How did Polemicist explain him/herself? Why does Biff retain his devastatingly dashing sense of humor even in the face of pummeling comments? ;)
I think also that as long as this discussion is happening, we need to acknowledge the occurrence of and the relief in the "mutual pleasantries and the "lovey dovey" admiration club that develops among those of us who sign in. It is called commaradarie (sp)! And damnit, we need it sometimes.
Posted by: Nokilissa at May 30, 2008 7:06 PM
4:37/5:37, nope I'm in no trouble whatsoever, but nice try. Asking you to prove me wrong is hardly defensive; it just proved what a total fraud you are who has failed miserably and makes empty threats. You're pathetic to think I would be scared of you.
Nokilissa, thank you so much for the support; you're a sweetie. But rest assured that nobody has my real email address or identify. I'm certain of that. And honestly, even if anyone here did know everything about me, I wouldn't be concerned in the least. I have nothing to hide. Have a wonderful weekend.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 30, 2008 7:26 PM
so you never gave out an iheartjerri email address, biff?
really...?
Posted by: guest at May 30, 2008 10:39 PM
I don't care so much about whether or not posts are anonymous as much as fixing some of the annoying elements:
1) Bad word filter
2) Limit length of posts
3) Eliminate duplicate posts
That would do a lot to fix the comments streams.
Posted by: pmmtenement at May 31, 2008 8:33 AM
I think that imposing word limits would be more useful that requiring registration. Some of the most annoying posts are those that fall into this category, like Montrose Morris or Nostalgic on Park Avenue, both of whom usually write bible-length tomes! I have no problem with passion, but learn to express it succinctly!!!
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 8:34 AM
Civilized debate. Whahahahahaha! Pinkies up, y'all. Careful with that coffee cup, Eugene. You want "civilized debate" create a private list.
You think this site is any better than Curbed. It's the internet, nits. I enjoy the net because of the snarky comments. If you're easily offended just read the headline and the body. Or better yet, read print media.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 9:29 AM
Yo Biff: Squirm much?
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 11:51 AM
I find Montrose Morris and NOP have a lot of great things to say,and they say it well. the keyword is quality- and they both are that. I love reading -and learning- about my neighborhood, history and architecture. That's what this site was supposed to be about- Brooklyn in all its glory (or not).
It's a free country- if you can't be bothered to read a long post, you can simply scroll past it. It's not like your mom has to cut your food up- you can do it yourself.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 1:08 PM
10:39, HAHAHA. Absolutely I put that email up here for all to see in the midst of a fun three-way discussion with Dave and Jerri and I never denied it, so you're not saying anything that anyone who's viewed this blog wouldn't have seen. I asked you to give any information that I've never openly posted on Brownstoner and you couldn't. You know nothing about me. I called you out and proved you're a fraud. You're done. You lost. You failed miserably.
11:51, no, Biff Champion never squirms, especially when there's clearly nothing to squirm about. I just love showing how people like you and 10:39 are totally full of it.
Moving on to much more interesting topics, i.e., my shining star Nokilissa, it's people like you, Dave, Heather, Polecimist, bxgrl, faithful, Sarah Ryley and others that keeps me signing in and checking the site every day. I like hearing what you have to say and I don't give a crap if people don't want to hear pleasantries and lovey dovey exchanges. I enjoy seeing you online friends and will never let trolling guests stop me from posting what I want to post. NOW it's time for a bourbon. Cue Edith Piaf's La Vie En Rose and let's all have a good time.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 31, 2008 2:37 PM
Have a good weekend Biff. I love this new login...I'm logged in, I'm registered yet I'm still posting anonymously as a guest!! Isn't life on the internet wonderful.
let me think of what I can hurl here to restart this thread!!!
Posted by: Bold type guest at May 31, 2008 3:25 PM
Biff...you should get another email address...something like
iheartguests@whatever.com post it and share with us some of the crap that comes in
Posted by: Bold type guest at May 31, 2008 3:35 PM
I don't mind long posts, but I do mind prolixity. M. Morris and N. on Park Avenue typically use 250 words when they could express the same point more economically AND more effectively with 20 or 30 words.
I'm not saying that their posts aren't valuable. I'd just like to increase the signal to noise ratio.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 3:43 PM
Long time reader, first time commenter here. The survey doesn't really seem take lurkers such as myself into account. I've been reading this blog for a couple of years and have never commented but I would rather keep the anonymous commenting system in place. I don't feel that it brings the discourse down (too far) and those complaining (and those who aren't) should just learn to ignore the trolls. They can't drag down discourse if you don't engage them. And, I must admit, sometimes it adds some much-needed levity to the conversation. Many of you people too often come off as snobby, snarky and tightly wound.
'tis all.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 4:19 PM
3:43- as I said, it's a free country. You don't have to read every line but some of us want to. Can you imagine what great literature would be like if Shakespeare, or Melville or Tolstoy were told to cut it down? No, I'm not comparing Mm and NOP to them, but they write exceedingly well and I, and quite a few others find them interesting. Long, well thought out and well written posts aren't the problem here.
4:19- I'm sure you're right- there are times when we should ignore the trolls, and oddly enough we do. But there are times when they can't be- sometimes the maliciousness is so over the top it can't be and shouldn't be.
But like Biff says, it is certain people who keep you coming back because they do form a community (and thank you Biff for including me!) and communities function best when they stick together. You don't have to agree with everyone, you don't have to like everyone, but you do recognize you have certain common interests and values and for better or worse, at the very least brownstoner gives a place to connect. that said, we all know certain things get posted with an eye toward hits, not discourse and I object to that- quite vehemently. So if you want MM and NOP to write shorter posts, you're asking for censorship for no reason. If you're going to have censorship at least make it for a worthwhile cause- like getting rid of racist comments and obscenities. Conversations can get pretty intense without that stuff. I love when Dave and Biff post- they're witty and fun and have a great sense of irony-and lord knows this site could use more of that.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 5:33 PM
bxgrl, do you have a dictionary handy? If so, look up "prolix" and/or "prolixity". It is not a term of praise! The earlier poster was not complaining about post length, but about the failure to post *succinctly* (and no, "succinct" doesn't simply mean "short"). Sigh.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 5:49 PM
Bold type guest, I have to say that your comments are cracking me up. Ironically, this anonymous "non-persona" of yours will quickly take on a life of its own (especially since you're clearly very entertaining) and I hope you continue logging in under your new handle. It's Unknown Comic-esque. The whole concept is ingenius, just like the thought of me setting up a iheartguests@whatever.com and posting what people send there. Definitely something to consider.
Anyway, thanks for the laughs. Tommorow's supposed to be beautiful. Have a wonderful weekend.
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 31, 2008 5:50 PM
And Bold type guest, since you mentioned wanting to hurl something to restart the thread, I'm adding comment 199 here to allow you the honor of posting the big 2-0-0. Sorry for the abundance of "mutual pleasantries" but welcome to the "lovey dovey" admiration club!
Posted by: Biff Champion at May 31, 2008 5:55 PM
"Can you imagine what great literature would be like if Shakespeare, or Melville or Tolstoy were told to cut it down?"
If Melville or Tolstoy opted to "cut it down", I'm sure the result would be great literature. You're talking about authors who appreciated the power of precise phrasing and economy of expression. They did not think that great works of literature were made great by astronomical word counts!
Jeez.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 7:31 PM
Well- here i am proving the point. (Apologies to Biff re #199. :-)
5:49- no- I don't need a dictionary. Unlike you, I can read. I can't imagine where in my post you think- or surmise- that I would interpret prolix as a compliment and frankly my post addresses both issues. Which- if your reading comprehension was as quick as your poor put down- you would get. By the way succinct and shorter often go hand in hand and since the intent was shorter posts, I tend to think I got the point, whereas you did not. However if you think splitting hairs wins points, you present a disappointing case.Sigh.
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 8:03 PM
oh please. enough with the whining about having to read long posts, when in fact you are free to scroll down. If that's too much hard work for you I would say the problem is yours, not MM or NOP's. You probably complain about having to pick up after yourself too.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 11:37 PM
"By the way succinct and shorter often go hand in hand and since the intent was shorter posts, I tend to think I got the point, whereas you did not."
No, the intent is more *succinct* posts, which you would know if you'd read even one small portion of this thread! At least *try* to make sense.
Posted by: guest at May 31, 2008 11:47 PM
Hey, bxgrl, post #200 was all yours! And no problem including you - I should also have included MM and NOP as well. I'm grateful for the kind things you've said about me. One post like that means much more to me than 200 trolling comments! Speaking of trolls, I think 4:19 makes excellent points (thankfully without resorting to directly insulting anyone)...we should print it out and periodically refer to it when tempted to feed trolls and respond to ad hominem attacks. I'll always defend myself and am not bothered by heated exchanges, which are sometimes inevitable, as you said. But most attacks really aren't worth a response.
I admire those who sign in (or at least attach a handle like you do given the technical difficulties some experience in being able to sign in) and find there is an overall comraderie and willingness to have each others' backs for those who do. It doesn't mean we always agree and turn things into a lovefest but it is rare two "identities" go after each other. Even when we do, we seem to get over it quickly. Some posters insist we go to chat rooms, email each other, get real friends or "get a room". To me, Brownstoner isn't a replacement of or subsitute for those things. It's just an additional medium to discuss topics that interest us and yes, see a few folks here that we admire and enjoy and say hello to. Anyway, this is a rare weekend visit to Brownstoner for me, but I am particularly interested in this topic, so thought I would quickly check in this morning. Off to enjoy the glorious day now with friends (yes, I do have "real" ones too!)
bxgrl, have a great day and looking forward to seeing you here again.
Posted by: Biff Champion at June 1, 2008 8:57 AM
P.S. If nothing else, Mr. B now has another surefire 200+ post topic in his back pocket if and when we see the survey results and impact, if any, on the sign-in decision!
Posted by: Biff Champion at June 1, 2008 9:08 AM
"I admire those who sign in (or at least attach a handle like you do given the technical difficulties some experience in being able to sign in)..."
Biff, I agree. There aren't very many things in life that reflect true, genuine courage. However, if there's one thing in this world that requires courage, it's signing into a blog using a completely made-up user ID that can in no way be traced back to you. That's what I call guts!
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 11:08 AM
What a minute, isn't bxgrl the one who posted those horrible links? I'm pretty sure this is the same person who posted links to porn and to really terrible, violent images. That kind of behavior is NOT cool!!!
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 11:10 AM
11:47- you can split hairs all you want with me but it doesn't do you any good. I think everyone knows what the poster and I both meant and you simply look like someone trying to pick a fight. Have fun- I have no intention of going through over 200 posts to find sentences to prove my point. You'll just try to find something else to snipe at. But keep wasting your time if that's what you like to do.
Biff- thanks! I'm going to the rally and going to enjoy the day too. Here's to a better brownstoner and don't forget- if you and Dave get a room, invite all of us to the party!
bxgrl
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 11:28 AM
yea, bxgrl was the one who posted links to really offensive stuff. incredibly violent and sick links.
i always skip her posts, no matter what.
i would have changed my sign in if i were her.
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 3:34 PM
What would prevent someone from logging in as guest and "trashing" your advertisers.
Wouldn't your be concerned that they may pull their ads from your site?
Posted by: guest at June 1, 2008 8:30 PM
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