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May 6, 2008
Closing Bell: Gehry's Arena Turns Blue
Atlantic Yards towers B1 (formerly Miss Brooklyn) and B2 weren't the only ones to get makeovers in yesterday's Daily News piece. The arena has been altered as well, and now it's blue! Per a press release from developer Forest City Ratner's people: "The Barclays Center, the future home of the NBA Nets franchise, has also received an updated design. Frank Gehry’s swooping blue metallic exterior surrounds the Center and is in keeping with his world-renown distinctive style. The Center is designed to achieve LEED certification with a goal of LEED silver and will incorporate some of the most state-of-the art interior and exterior amenities." Spokesman Loren Riegelhaupt said not to worry, the scoreboard will still be viewable from the street. We've posted some of those other world-renowned buildings. Notice that Brooklyn's metal is the least bend-y.
Miss Brooklyn Gets New Look and Name [NY Daily News]
Atlantic Yards or Atlantic Lots? [Brownstoner]
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Comments
Oy vey!
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:25 PM
Seeing these buildings makes me wonder how anyone could be opposed to this.
This will become a major attraction and a great boon to Brooklyn!
Love the new rendering!
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:27 PM
wow. total love.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:31 PM
4:27
What you fail to realize is that Ghery buildings work best in settings where they are on their own. Bilbao, for example, works because that is is for the site. There are no streets or other buildings that fight for attention.
I'm a Ghery fan, but this just seems bad for the hood. I also think, IMHO, that it will look really dated the second its completed.
Lastly, this is just Smoke & Mirrors by Team Ratner to push through the stadium (which we'll (the taxpayers) pay way too much for ($1 bil for a stadium for a private club, c'mon), and not deliver any of the public housing that was promised.
I wish someone woudl just kill this and let it develop naturally, without a stadium.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:32 PM
4:32:
You calling it a stadium, when it fact it is an arena (two VERY different things) shows that you are unable to even discuss this project in a rational and factual way.
You are the reason this project is going through. Your anti-people need to stop with the unorganized, overzealous and downright inaccurate data.
And no, I don't work for Ratner.
I happen to like the project. And having worked IN a Gehry building (see Disney Hall) I know how his buildings (even among many other buildings in downtown LA) has become the star of the city.
So that's two falsehoods you've spread just in one comment already.
I welcome it with open arms.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:39 PM
I wonder how many of my tax dollars went to Gehry to produce this, admittedly nice, rendering.
Posted by: Johnny at May 6, 2008 4:40 PM
"I wish someone woudl just kill this and let it develop naturally,"
Yes, because naturally has worked OH SO WELL for parts of Bed Stuy, Crown Heights, Prospect Heights and South Slope.
And if by natural, you mean making Mr. Fedders a very rich man, then I say bring on the unnatural!!!
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:40 PM
"I wish someone woudl just kill this and let it develop naturally, without a stadium."
Ya, why can't they just let the weeds grow and trains rust naturally?
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:41 PM
I have homes in LA (Silverlake), NYC (Park Slope) and Costa Rica, 4:43.
I'll be back in LA soon enough.
Btw, GREAT comeback!!!
Super impressive.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:47 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/next/archives/2007/11/mit_is_suing_fr.html
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:50 PM
I think developing the Atlantic yards is a great idea---it needs it.
From what I can see, it looks like it will be developed in a really excellent way. Compared to the way that nondescript and tasteless mall was erected over the LIRR station at Flatbush and Atlantic, this Gehry project looks like something to be excited about. Or better yet, compare this Gehry project to Penn Station.
It's like Tom Friedman wrote the other day in his column: comparing Penn Station to the train terminal in Berlin, you'd never guess who won world war II.
The fact is that Brooklyn will have a great construction over it's train yards and the arena in Brooklyn will be far superior to Penn Station and Madison Square Garden.
I really can't understand the opposition to the project. I think it must be just a few, very loud people shouting over a crowd that's watching, quietly, with excitement.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:51 PM
http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/jun2007/id20070619_279669.htm?chan=search
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:51 PM
LOOK, HERE'S THE POINT. PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THIS PROJECT ARE STRICTLY NIMBY'S, MEANING "NOT IN MY BACK YARD". iF THIS PROJECT WERE PROPOSED FOR CONEY ISLAND, BAY RIDGE, OR EAST NEW YORK, GOLDSTEIN AND HIS BAND OF MERRY MEN (AND WOMEN) WOULDN'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT "NO LAND GRAB" "TAX PAYER DOLLARS" AND "AFFORDABLE HOUSING". THE NON PARTISAN REALITY IS THAT IF THIS THING EVER GETS BUILT, (i) IT WILL SUCK FOR THE PEOPLE IN PROSPECT HEIGHTS FOR THE 20 YEAR PERIOD OF THE BUILD-OUT (ii) THE REST OF BROOKLYN WILL ABSOLUTELY BE IN LOVE WITH THE BASKETBALL TEAM (WIN OR LOSE) AND (iii) AY WILL BECOME MAJOR TOURIST ATTRACTION...GET READY FOR A MILLION MORE OF THOSE 'JUMP ON'
'JUMP OFF' TOUR BUSES.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 4:57 PM
“The new designs raise more questions than they answer,” said Brad Lander, executive director of the Pratt Center for Community Development. “Will Forest City Ratner continue to demolish buildings in Phase II to construct a giant parking lot that separates our neighborhoods?”
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:09 PM
Well done, 4;39, you get the prize for misdirection. From wiki:
"arena is sometimes used as a synonym for a very large venue such as Pasadena's Rose Bowl, but such a facility is typically called a stadium. The use of one term over the other has mostly to do with the type of event"
In other words, little different. But that's not the issue at all, is it? As Ratner brings out more and more of his unlikely renderings, one gets the feeling of desperation. And they get uglier and less human to boot.
Not even worth getting into the real issues of millions of $ of taxpayer subsidies, ignoring the due process, eminent domain, out-of-scaleness, lying to the community organizations that are in bed with him (ACORN) etc. etc.
Posted by: cmu at May 6, 2008 5:14 PM
"City Ratner continue to demolish buildings in Phase II to construct a giant parking lot that separates our neighborhoods?”
At least we could walk across a parking lot. Right now a giant hole separates our neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:14 PM
looks like a nice art project. would look like shit in Brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:16 PM
You think you are going to be allowed to walk across the parking lot?- hahahahaha
Not gunna happen
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:19 PM
Actually old Brooklyn looks like shit. An art project would be a nice break from all "classic" architecture.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:20 PM
"You think you are going to be allowed to walk across the parking lot?- hahahahaha
Not gunna happen"
Why not? You made the claim. Please enlighten us.
No comment? I thought so...
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:23 PM
This will not be a tourist attraction.
Gehry buildings are like Chase banks now. They're on practically every corner and they all look the same.
By the time this is built (if it gets built), there will already be 2 other Gehry buildings in Manhattan.
Also, this is not Disney Concert Hall and it's not Bilbao. With these two buildings, there are cultural events, people go in and out of the museum in a steady stream throughout the day, and there is the opportunity for many different types of events to take place.
With an ARENA, you pretty much got 2 options: 1) there's a HUGE event with 20,000 people, which sucks for the people who actually live in the area because of obscene congestion, tons of litter, etc, etc, or 2) it's empty. empty isn't good for anyone and an arena will sit empty for probably 90% of the year. it'll be used 40 nights a year for maybe 3 hours at a time and then maybe another 50 days for concerts, etc.
regardless of the architecture, arenas create a gaping black hole when placed in an urban setting. the area around MSG sucks because it's an arena, NOT because it's an ugly building.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:46 PM
"and an arena will sit empty for probably 90% of the year"
And there you have it. All the Nimby folks are crying, yet the truth finally comes out.
It won't be the nightmare you think because it will be empty.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:56 PM
"arenas create a gaping black hole when placed in an urban setting."
Umm, the area is currently a giant black hole. Literally.
If not this plan then what? Do you think some magic hippy is going to fall from the sky and design and fund an urban utopia? I'm sorry. I know it sucks but it's this or nothing. I for one vote for something rather than nothing.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 5:57 PM
"regardless of the architecture, arenas create a gaping black hole when placed in an urban setting. the area around MSG sucks because it's an arena, NOT because it's an ugly building."
Tell that to the developers who have spent BILLIONS of dollars to buy property next to, on top of and directly across from MSG to build, what will be the last parcel of undeveloped land in Manhattan.
You are a loon. And completely out of touch.
Just because YOU don't like the area around MSG does not make it a black hole. You might want to tell that to the millions upon millions of people who visit Macys every year, see the Thanksgiving Day Parade, go to work or shop in the extremely high rent area which is 34th Street.
Miracle on 34th Street...Ever heard of it?
It isn't black hole on 34th Street last I checked.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 6:00 PM
Like a few posters above have mentioned...the area is literally a black hole right now. Do the NIMBY's really prefer that the area stay the way it is now? Am I the only one who thinks that (as it currently stands) the area looks like a piece of shit? As 5:57 said, it's really this or nothing. I am not very certain that this will get built, but I'm 100% CERTAIN that if AY does not get built the corner of Flatbush and Atlantic will be a hole in the ground for the rest of all of our lives...quite frankly, it just too hard to get ANYTHING built in New York.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 7:04 PM
nice carbon footprint, 4:47. It's fucktards like you with your multiple houses (and houseboys) that have this planet in the predicament it's in--you fat greedy asshat.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 7:27 PM
NOT TO RATNER STAFF:
DO NOT WRITE IN ALL CAPS WHEN TRYING TO SPIN PUBLIC OPINION ON BLOGS. IT IS CONSIDERED RUDE.
Posted by: mimi at May 6, 2008 7:40 PM
"LOOK, HERE'S THE POINT. PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THIS PROJECT ARE STRICTLY NIMBY'S, MEANING "NOT IN MY BACK YARD". iF THIS PROJECT WERE PROPOSED FOR CONEY ISLAND, BAY RIDGE, OR EAST NEW YORK, GOLDSTEIN AND HIS BAND OF MERRY MEN (AND WOMEN) WOULDN'T GIVE A RATS ASS ABOUT "NO LAND GRAB" "TAX PAYER DOLLARS" AND "AFFORDABLE HOUSING".
They actually have said the arena should go in Coney Island. So people have to drive to get there and drive home drunk. How many people take the train to cyclones games?
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 7:48 PM
time for antiAY herd to move on to the next stylish cause. isn't the pro bird anti glass building movement gaining some steam?
Posted by: BrooklynLove at May 6, 2008 7:51 PM
I might not be as eco-friendly as you would like, 7:27, although your logic makes little sense since two of my homes are unused most of the year (vs being lived in full time by someone else) but I am certainly not fat.
I am a model, which is how I've been able to afford the life I have now.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 7:53 PM
Anyone else thinking Opera House in Australia?
Posted by: MacD at May 6, 2008 7:53 PM
Not everyone who likes Atlantic Yards works for Ratner. If you can't even see that some people honestly think the project is good for Brooklyn for whatever reason, be it jobs, architecture, basketball, or to spur development, then your opinion means nothing because you're so blinded by your hate of the project that you can't see things rationally. I live in Brooklyn, near the project, am white, educated, even liberal, extremely well read on it pro, con, and neautral. Weighing everything I want the project. But at least I understand why people don't. I have no respect for the opinion of people who think that everyone who disagrees with them is corrupt. Maybe ACORN is getting something out of this, but you're not the one who sits in an office every day seeing people from your community come in looking for jobs so they can better themselves and their family. Try and see things from other peoples' eyes, don't be ignorant of the rest of the world beyond your brownstone, and pay some respect. Whatever objections you have left after those filters are valid.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 8:01 PM
Relax folks, it's never gonna happen. The Nets will stay in Jersey, and Ratner will soak the taxpayers for a few more millions before scuttling off to the next grandiose failure.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 8:12 PM
oh, 7:53--how typical of a "model" it is to be a literalist nitwit. thank the good lord above you had your "looks," because there certainly wouldn't have been much call for your brainpower. as for your homes sitting unused, well you had to fly to and fro to get to each one of them. not to mention all your "shoots" at various far flung locales.
you ARE indeed fat, model, as in overindulged. your six pack abs, anorexic build or whatever it is that made you your fortune can't change that nor ever will.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 9:08 PM
2 idiotic worlds meet, frank gehry and sports!
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 10:02 PM
i love PHAT people.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 10:35 PM
Dear
LOOK, HERE'S THE POINT. PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST THIS PROJECT ARE STRICTLY NIMBY'S, MEANING "NOT IN MY BACK YARD".
You are strictly a fuck wad.
what the heck is strickly nimby...you know nothing of anyone fighting this project. If this were in Coney Island you wouldn't give a rats ass either.
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 10:51 PM
Do the NIMBY's really prefer that the area stay the way it is now?
yea that is why its called develop don't destroy
PROPOSED FOR CONEY ISLAND, BAY RIDGE, OR EAST NEW YORK, GOLDSTEIN AND HIS BAND OF MERRY MEN (AND WOMEN) WOULDN'T GIVE A RATS ASS
Right but you can bet your capital case lettered writing that if they tried to take the homes of people living in bay ridge, it would never happen. As for the coney island bit, you are just mis informed ( not surprisingly, you are just a IMBYFP) The coney island would be in OPEN land. Ie. not in the middle of an area.
If your reason for having this hole near a subway, is so you can get DRUNK and not drive...then look for sympathy and support from someone who gives two rats about your drunkeness!!
Posted by: guest at May 6, 2008 10:55 PM
I've lived in the neighborhood for 8 years and recently bought in Clinton Hill. I may very well be wrong, but I think the bulk of the opposition isn't for the arena necessarily, but for the 16 or so high rise buildings that were to be erected in a pre-dominantly low-rise area. As far as an arena's effect on the surrounding neighborhood, I can only point to the revitalization of the area around the Wizards arena in downtown DC as a major success story. I lived in DC before and after the arena was built, and to call it a night-and-day difference is an understatement. I am opposed to the AY project as originally proposed as much as anyone, but to suggest that the area would not benefit from some sort of development is a bit ridiculous.
And besides, it will all be worthless once AY is built...
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 9:14 AM
If this is the same blue metal as Gehry used in one of his worst buildings - Seattle's Experience Music Project - then it's going to be a very ugly building.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 9:33 AM
9:14
It's not a predominantly low rise area. It is an area with the tallest building in Brooklyn and several of the tallest residential buildings in the borough.
This has been said countless times. You combine this fact with the presence of the Atlantic-Pacific subway station and you have the strongest argument humanly possible for high density residential development. You have the successful mix of townhouses and high density buildings in Brooklyn Heights, the Upper West Side, and Greenwich Village to prove that such uses can and do coexist peacefully.
Your perception of reality is not supported by facts.
Because the area has seen little development, besides public housing, since the Great Depression doesn't mean that trend will continue forever. Be happy that Brooklyn has finally recovered from that difficult era. Also recognize that NIMBYism does nothing but engender conflict as avarice will consume those who increasingly cannot afford to live in your neighborhood due to rising demand for housing and stagnant supply.
Posted by: Polemicist at May 7, 2008 9:43 AM
Markowitz, you only get one post!
Fact is, this project would make more (some?) sense in ENY, Coney or elsewhere in Brooklyn. Downtown Brooklyn CANNOT handle more traffic. What we need is some actual urban PLANNING, fix the street mess and make the transit hub more user-friendly. We DON'T need a huge facility that will bring more cars from LI and other parts of Brooklyn (no Marty sports fans don't use public transport).
Why not turn the whole thing into a parking lot? cheaper, and could generate revenue for the city.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 11:18 AM
If you think it is low rise, why do the mockups look so god awful, with huge Ratner buildings overwhelming the much smaller buildings that surround it. The large apts in Brooklyn height proper are more contextual and AY looks like it landed from outer space. I think there is one thing we can all agree is that those proposed building are monstrosities.
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 11:26 AM
sports fans dont use public transportation. right nobody takes the 4 to yankee games the 7 to shea of uses the LIRR at MSG although it sits above the train station. i know only patrons of the arts take public transportation. asshat!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 12:42 PM
I always take the train to shea... and to Coney Island.
Go Brooklyn Nets!
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 3:11 PM
D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L
Posted by: guest at May 7, 2008 8:39 PM
12:42,
You clearly have never taken the subway to a baseball game within the five boroughs. The trains are PACKED before games with locals and tourists. The demand at Shea is so high that the platform has been widened to accommodate the fans. Last time I attended a game, it took 15 minutes to board a train and extra personnel were required to help guide people into the station.
Posted by: guest at May 8, 2008 10:16 AM
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