Another Shooting on Grand and Putnam

Requires community cooperation to really shut it down. The no-snitchin nonsense will make it hard to put this to bed.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:36 AM

How about the community stop buying drugs on that corner. The drug dealers and buyers are part of that community. They are not coming there from the UES.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:38 AM

The What contributes to this atmosphere with his ghetto behavior.

Some day the cops are gonna get you .....

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:38 AM

This shows the incredible effectiveness of Letitia James, who is probably at some DDDB rally as I write this.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:41 AM

"How about the community stop buying drugs on that corner."

Great idea, except I have a funny feeling most of the buyers aren't reading brownstoner today...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:42 AM

I'm all for free speech but music that has lyrics like that wouldn't stay up on my website.

And the "Damn Brownstoner, They missed you!!!" comment is incredibly inappropriate and truly an extreme act of cowardice.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:42 AM

i live a few blocks from here, and while i love my neighborhood and wouldn't have bought anywhere else, i am totally fed up with the 79th precinct. we call with problems fairly regularly, we are met with responses like...what do you expect from this neighborhood? (a response that infuriates me) now i deal with politicians-it seems to be the only real solution.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:44 AM

Three were 10 shots last night. a burst of three, then 7 more. It was so close and loud i just dropped to the ground, of course, then called the cops. They actually showed up quicker than usual. Every day i walk past that corner, in daylight or in darkness, and there is always someone either in front of that building, or standing on the corner in front of the deli. It's going to come down to the city putting cameras on that corner and almost every where else. What i dont get is, isn't there a school at the 7th day adventist church across the street? Don't they have laws that make infractions in this area even more severe? If so, it doesn't seem like the 88th cares. On Lefferts we have had several shootings in the past year alone, and other violent activity, but this did not increase police activity in the area in the evenings. I see a car maybe once or twice a week after 6pm, but from 9am till noon they are around constantly. Why? Maybe to help out the super diligent Garbage Cops who hand tickets out by the dozens even AFTER the street cleaners have gone bye. Is it me or does anyone else blame the mayor for his lack of concern for anything Brooklyn that involves criminal activity?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:45 AM

was the upper east side comment really necessary brownstoner?

this WOULDN'T happen in the UES because it is not a fringe neighborhood. As previously stated, it's the people in the neighborhood who are selling the drugs and commiting these crimes.

A little more should go into selecting a neighborhood than housing stock. Perhaps likelihood of getting shot should play a roll.

and don't say this could have happened anywhere. when you live in the ghetto, ghetto things happen.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:46 AM

this stuff does happen in UES, UWS if you look past 96th street..
and it will never go away, as long as there are customers there.
as for real estate, that's why it's cheaper in CH than FG, cheaper in PH than PS, etc.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:48 AM

How much do brownstones sell for in the 10 block radius surrounding this incident??

1 million, 1.5 million, 2 even??

Asinine.

This is a 500K neighborhood, in my opinion.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:51 AM

that's it. I used to enjoy the what and sometimes even agree. his comment was above and beyond what is acceptable. The What, I ask you to apologize now to Brownstoner for your comment - it was an incitement to violence to someone who has done nothing to harm you and continues to allow you to post invective. if you're too ashamed to apologize in front of the community, send him and e-mail, but do it. I cannot believe that you are that inhuman - if, indeed, you are that crass and committed to violence in the community, then you should slink away and refrain from anymore commentary. you've lost any platform you ever had if you can't pull that yourself. I am saddened and disgusted. Brownstoner, even if I have disagreed with you much in the past, I am sorry that you had to read that from someone who pretends to have something of value to say.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:52 AM

past 96th street on the east side isn't the UES, it's harlem.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:52 AM

"The What contributes to this atmosphere with his ghetto behavior."

If you live in Clinton Hill, you live in the ghetto. I know this awaking will take some time. If you live in Bed Stuy, you live in the ghetto also. Your are suffering from a bad case of Cognitive dissonance!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Cognitive dissonance is a psychological state that describes the uncomfortable feeling when a person begins to understand that something the person believes to be true is, in fact, not true. Similar to ambivalence, the term cognitive dissonance describes conflicting thoughts or beliefs (cognitions) that occur at the same time, or when engaged in behaviors that conflict with one's beliefs. In academic literature, the term refers to attempts to reduce the discomfort of conflicting thoughts, by performing actions that are opposite to one's beliefs.

Yep, you brought a overpriced Brownstone and now you what it all to stop. Nope life goes on.

"I'm all for free speech but music that has lyrics like that wouldn't stay up on my website.

And the "Damn Brownstoner, They missed you!!!" comment is incredibly inappropriate and truly an extreme act of cowardice."

This Blog promotes covert Race/Class warfare everyday and I'm a coward?! I'm on the front lines of this thing. The What has not and never will be a "coward"!!!

The What (DUCK!!!!!!!!!!)

Someday this war is gonna end....

BTW The cops will do something about this when a white person gets shot! So when they start shooting be a martyr!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:54 AM

Thank you for your helpful comments Mr/Ms self-righteous 11:48.

I think the point is EVERYONE deserves a safe neighborhood and police protection.

Clearly there is a lack of will in the 88th to deal with this problem that just festers and festers.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:54 AM

I think the What needs to once and for all be banned from this website.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:56 AM

just because you overpaid for your brownstone in the hood do not expect it to be a utopia

parts of brooklyn are dangerous get used to it and buy a flak jacket

did you not know what goes on in this area before you decided to move there?

this should only get worse as the warm weather killing season opens

you must be new to brookyln

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:57 AM

What area is that? Thats pretty shady...

Is it me or does there seem to be more violence in Brooklyn lately?

I just bought in the BoCoCa area and it seems like NYC needs to beef up the police force somehow and stop paying these guys $22k to start...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 11:59 AM

Every neighborhood, whether it's in manhattan or brooklyn needs to organize to get rid of the thugs - no-one deserves drive-by shootings and the only way to get it over with is to get attention any way you can. Get Tish involved (again), get marty, get bloomberg, the DA and finally, MUCH MORE PRESS. people shouldn't be getting shot, I don;t care how ghetto your hood is, how black or how white. something is seriously wrong and the 88th must be getting rich from more than tax dollars if they let this continue on the same corners throughout brooklyn year after year.
The What, shut up. you just took yourself down multiple pegs, my friend. your time is over. yuck.
- old timer

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:00 PM

"that's it. I used to enjoy the what and sometimes even agree. his comment was above and beyond what is acceptable. The What, I ask you to apologize now to Brownstoner for your comment - it was an incitement to violence to someone who has done nothing to harm you and continues to allow you to post invective. if you're too ashamed to apologize in front of the community, send him and e-mail, but do it. I cannot believe that you are that inhuman - if, indeed, you are that crass and committed to violence in the community, then you should slink away and refrain from anymore commentary. you've lost any platform you ever had if you can't pull that yourself. I am saddened and disgusted. Brownstoner, even if I have disagreed with you much in the past, I am sorry that you had to read that from someone who pretends to have something of value to say."

If you think I will apologize, you are sadly mistaken. I sat here for the last year watching the vile and underhand covert racism come from this blog! Like the story on THE PROJECTS! Brownstoner has gotten away with this type of behavior! He should have NEVER posted this story unless he was prepared for the blowback for the long time residents of this neighborhood! This blogs is supposed to be about Brownstones, not covert Race/Class warfare. This is THE HOOD, THIS IS NEW YORK! Things happen! This story here is another attempt to stir these feeling among us! Screw Brownstoner!

The What (Whatever)

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:02 PM

Seriously, please take the What's posts off here.

Having someone threaten to commit violence is surely a good reason to halt freedom of speech in this instance.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:04 PM

You don't even live in New York State anymore, The What.

Please go away. You are no longer welcome here. Not that you ever were...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:05 PM

Although I agreed that the 88th must step up, we have to be realistic about how much the cops can actually do for you. Let's be real people. The members of the community must act to change its culture and environment to effectively (and hopefully permanently) shift its course.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:07 PM

the what is clearly one of those who thinks it's okay to take a life, to harm. that makes him a bad person and yes, a coward. fantasizing about a blogger being shot is pretty stupid, sad, and, yes, cowardly. the what, start your own blog about how great drug dealers on killing sprees are for a community of poor people. go for it - no really, I'm sure lots and lots of people would flock to your site to hear you lay out the truth from such a pulpit.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:07 PM

"BoCoCa"

UGH!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:07 PM

This has nothing to do with race or class, The What. I've seen no mention of the ethnicity of anyone involved with this crime and would certainly not ASSUME that the violence was done by any particular race or class.

If that is YOUR ASSUMPTION, I believe that would make you the racist one.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:07 PM

The What:

Stop trying to cover this up by suggesting that racism is a part of this discussion...

SAFETY is the only thing we are concerned about: Black, White, and Brown!@

Get the F u c K out!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:12 PM

hear, hear b'stoner! we missed you! thanks for posting

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:12 PM

The What: Yes, Mr. Brownstoner did speak from his platform that is based on upper middle class white America. But he is entitled to his opinion just like you are. I don't think your posts should be censored, but you can't justifiably put a fatwa on him either.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:13 PM

Ok why is no one blaming Brownstoner for posting this story!! What the F%^& this has to do with BROWNSTONES????!!!!!! Huh!! I know I was going to post something, I wasn't going to let this go! Come on.

The What FLAME ON

Someday this war is gonna end......

Wow those 1.3 million Brownstones aint so great now, huh! Blow me!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:13 PM

This is the block that a bunch of you were telling some girl it was safe to live on. This is why Brownstones in Clinton Hill are the most overpriced real estate in Brooklyn. This is not a family area but rather a place for young man with no family in my opinion. I feel bad for the person who got shot and the people who bought and live in this aea but you guys cant be surprised about this. This is an area controlled by drugdealers who can be very violent if you try to take there livilihoods.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:15 PM

Where can I buy one of those million dollar brownstones in this area? Is this another one of those areas everyone keeps saying people from the UWS are flocking to because house there will only keep going up? If I buy that million dollar brownstone there now will it really be worth 4 times that in 5 years like everyone on here says? Golly I hope so. Now seems to best time to buy!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:15 PM

Many of the longtime residents have poor views of the cops. Many teens growing up in our neighborhoods have to face descrimination on a daily basis. In a situation like this, it's imperative that the cops come out to the community (both new and old residents) and show that they care.
This is the only thing that will renew people's faith in the police and (hopefully) help them feel more comfortable coming forward with information.

period.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:15 PM

12:15 - let's get them here then, let's get them involved and introducing themselves into the communities - i haven't seen them doing that anywhere.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:19 PM

People from the community need to get more involved here like they did in Park Slope 30 years ago.

Seems very few credit Park Slope for being an extremely devoted (almost radically so) neighborhood of gentifiers who worked to improve crime, improve the schools (ps. 321 is a testament to that), fight for landmark status, and improve the general quality of life in the neighborhood.

That neighborhood was not handed anything. They worked for it. In fact, at the time, many of those people who moved there were living in a red-lined neighborhood which the city barely even cared to acknowledge. Now look at it.

Seems the new people spending 2 million to move into these new fringe areas want everyone else to take care of their problems. That's not the way it works, and there IS a reason why places like Park Slope continue to be such a great place to live...it's because the residents there care about their neighborhood very deeply. Some would say too deeply, but that is neither here nor there...

All the work has paid off. So whatever you think about Park Slope, I would recommend you take a look at the community spirit that drives that neighborhood and learn a little something and take to your own neighborhood and spread the gift of involement to make this world a better place.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:19 PM

You are so pathetic, What. If you had any pride in your neighborhood, you would condemn this kind of violence, not encourage it. You are obviously a very sick person.

I hope the rest of the community here on this site ignores his rants. Don't give him the attention he so craves.

Bye, What. I was interesting reading while it lasted.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:22 PM

When Park Slope was a wild a dangerous place, houses were cheap. Prices in CH are not cheap by any means. Even at 500K a falling down POS in BS is not cheap to anyone else anywhere else in anyplace in the USA.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:23 PM

Clearly The What's comments are largely ridiculous and reflect the fact that he is a raving lunatic--and a borderline illiterate one at that.
However, I do believe that he is right on one point. All the bodies that are dropping in CH are black. The moment a white person who is minding his/her own business is inadvertently shot, you better believe it will be front page news and that is when the cops will make it a priority to lean on the criminal element in the neighborhood.
I certainly hope it doesn't come to that. I hope that the community-based efforts will turn things around because everyone remains unsafe in the interim.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:23 PM

"Why in the world would the longtime residents of the neighborhood be in favor of the police doing nothing while people get shot? That's a ridiculous thing to say. Just because some longtime residents may have given up on the police long ago (and for good reason given the lack of action), why should newer arrivals not try to draw attention to the problems and bring a new level of accountability? Stick to economics, The What."

I don't know what planet you live on but I live in AMERICA! The place of the most vile racism on this planet. Example Obama is the best candidate we have but, people will not vote for him because he's BLACK! All that crap you saying Brownstoner is all good in a perfect world but at the end of the day RACISM rules America. Cops shoot a unarmed man 50 times and I didn't see white people being enraged about it! I didn't see you post that on here! My opinion is you knew the passion when you posted this garbage on this blog!!

Brownstoner you are very disingenuous! You only care about the value of your house and the Gentrification of urban neighborhoods!

The What (Yeah Riiiiight)

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:23 PM

To follow up to 12:19...Some in these newer fringe neighborhoods think that all they need is an American Apparel or a Strabucks or a Choice Market to open and all of the sudden their neighborhood is perfect.

That's not the case. You can't cover up MAJOR societal issues with new retail and a wine bar.

Go out there and get involved in the core problems of what is afflicting this neighborhood.

No amount of new stores are going to solve these problems that exist. They are simply smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:24 PM

All you arm chair warriors need to stop blogging, get off your assess and do something.
The weather is nice. Why don't the residents of the block get some flashlights and bright colored vest and patrol the neighborhood themselves.
I betcha if the white homeowners in the area spent more time on this corner, illicit activity would go down a lot.
Instead, you walk the other walk and complain about it on the internets when you get home.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:25 PM

"The place of the most vile racism on this planet."

Never been to South Africa then, The What?

Your post just showed how TRULY ignorant you really are.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:27 PM

Most of the people in the neighborhood - of all races - are against this type of violence. That's usually the way it is. However, the bad guys with guns are not afraid to target people who talk. Also, as 11:44 observed, most NYPD officers are not eager to address crime in areas they characterize as "the ghetto." So, many residents here - in the interest of self-preservation - don't call the police when these things happen. The police routinely add to the problem with their attitudes toward the community, and their penchant to disproportionately target even non-criminal people of color (and thus, the majority of this community's residents) for "stop-and-frisk" and other methods of harrassment. The result is that even honest residents are not inclined to aid or even speak to NYPD officers. As in almost any community, the thugs and gangsters here are a small minority. Most of the neighborhood is filled with honest, hard-working people. But htey have learned it's not worth it to speak to cops OR to confront thugs. And so they keep quiet. Mr. Brownstoner, if you are so incensed by what occurred at Grand and Putnam the other day,YOU should go down to the police precinct and complain, or send our post to the local precinct commander. Perhaps the cops will listen to a person like yourself, and put one of their giant, noisy command towers on that corner, and the gangsters will go somewhere else to shoot at each other.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:27 PM

"You only care about the value of your house and the Gentrification of urban neighborhoods!"

Actually someone who only cares about the value of their home would not post about a shooting a few blocks from their home.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:28 PM

oh, come now, guys n gals...T'What just learned some new terms and he want to try them out. He's a very big fan of cognitive dissonance. He uses that one every chance he gets!

T'What lives the way he wants to live. I think we should give him a pat on the back for trying to express his frustrations in (relatively) complete thoughts. And he has a point: he lives in the ghetto and ghetto things ought to continue going down there. I am sure he's much happier that way. It probably makes him misty-eyed for his childhood-lum days.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:29 PM

The funny thing Brownstoner You took down my posts. You are a funny dude homeboy! If I overpaid the the Ghetto, I would be very worried too. Wait until the crash, you have seen nothing yet!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:30 PM

The What is a realtor in Lodi, New Jersey.

This has already been proven as fact. He likes to scare people in Brooklyn in the hope that they will want to leave and move to the burbs.

I thought we all knew this already...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:31 PM

"I don't know what planet you live on but I live in AMERICA! The place of the most vile racism on this planet. Example Obama is the best candidate we have but, people will not vote for him because he's BLACK! All that crap you saying Brownstoner is all good in a perfect world but at the end of the day RACISM rules America. Cops shoot a unarmed man 50 times and I didn't see white people being enraged about it! I didn't see you post that on here! My opinion is you knew the passion when you posted this garbage on this blog!!"

First of all, you've obviously not been watching the news on the Obama front. The only place in the country where what you said might be true, is in WV.

Dude, look at the f ucking pictures in the paper of the locked arms protesting the Shawn Bell decision. White, Black, Brown... EVERYONE. If you want to read about more NYC issues, read gothamist.

and heck your shi.t before you make blanket statements.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:32 PM

"I don't know what planet you live on but I live in AMERICA! The place of the most vile racism on this planet. Example Obama is the best candidate we have but, people will not vote for him because he's BLACK! All that crap you saying Brownstoner is all good in a perfect world but at the end of the day RACISM rules America. Cops shoot a unarmed man 50 times and I didn't see white people being enraged about it! I didn't see you post that on here! My opinion is you knew the passion when you posted this garbage on this blog!!"

First of all, you've obviously not been watching the news on the Obama front. The only place in the country where what you said might be true, is in WV.

Dude, look at the f ucking pictures in the paper of the locked arms protesting the Shawn Bell decision. White, Black, Brown... EVERYONE. If you want to read about more NYC issues, read gothamist.

and check your shi.t before you make blanket statements.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:32 PM

Come on with some of these coments about the police giving a tough time to these teens...

Maybe some of these kids should not be walking around with DORAGS and Size XXXXL shirts and shady heavy coats and jeans down to their knees...

What are the cops supposed to think? "Oh here is a lovely boy how can I help you son"

Come on get with it...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:33 PM

I love how the posters here are saying the police dont do anything.....
Yet I have to wonder what you want the police to do.....

Because right now "the community" (probably not the same as posting here) is screaming that the police are too involved with the community - doing too much stop and frisk, to much patrols in 'certain neighborhoods' etc.....

So what should the police do? Just walk around, you think thats going to stop crime - it wont - thats what was done in the 70's - beat cops could just walk/drive around. Cant be everywhere at once so if everyone knows that the police arent going to make arrests - its simply a matter of waiting till they walk away....

So what should the police do? When they see activity that is consistent with drug dealing should they stop and question people? Well then isnt it only fair (and smart) to allow those same police, whose lives are actually at risk, to frisk this person to make sure no weapon is available? And guess what you (and "the community") is going to scream when after this encounter when no arrest is made - "racial discrimination".

So what should the police do? they are damned if they do, and damned if they dont - all for 31K and the risk of being hurt or killed.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:37 PM

Hear, hear 12:27!! You hit the nail on the head.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:38 PM

12:33

I'm a HS teacher in Bed Stuy. Some of the most well-behaved (and dressed) students of mine have shared some pretty horrifying, and unnecessary stories about their encounters with police. Try not to generalize.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:39 PM

"The What, I don't see the post as "another attempt to stir these [racist, classist] feeling among us."

Bizzzzzz Wrong answer Sarah!

I think the intent was to draw attention to a devastating problem. The women in the post may not have gotten killed, and therefor the incident probably won't appear in any of the newspapers, but what happened still has a terrorizing affect on the community, regardless of the race or class of the people living there.

Bizzzzzz Wrong answer Sarah!

This blog is about real estate and the quality of life in neighborhoods, and this certainly fits.

Oh oh make it stop! Wow I just did a hundred crunches! Oh tha's funny

While you may not think this is worth bringing up, I'm sure a lot of the people in the community would like to see this issue brought to the forefront and discussed more often. Instead, you promote more violence by wishing that someone with good intentions gets shot (not that I think anyone deserves to get shot ... that would be like being blanket pro-death penalty for anyone I don't agree with)."

No Sarah, I want you dudes to wake up. You brought overpriced House and now you are trying to justify your madness!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:45 PM

12:32 SHUT YOUR MOUTH...They were at a shady strip club with some shady friends who could barely make a statement...What are the cops supposed to do??? When someone looks like the have a gun or the cop feels threatended they need to make a quick decision...

I am so tired of the racism stuff but who is doing most of the crime and violence in Brooklyn...For Example in Boerum Hill with the projects when stuff happens there its the people from the projects and most of them are what color? These are facts my friend...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:48 PM

Will you please shut up, The What.

There are more renters in this neighborhood than there are million dollar brownstone owners.

EVERYONE cares about the crimes that are happening. Not everyone is NEARLY as obsessed as you are about the alleged overpaying of bronwtones. Some people like to focus on issues that actually have to do with people, and human interaction.

Something you seem to know NOTHING about.

You are a really disgusting human being.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:48 PM

"So what should the police do? When they see activity that is consistent with drug dealing should they stop and question people? Well then isnt it only fair (and smart) to allow those same police, whose lives are actually at risk, to frisk this person to make sure no weapon is available?"

The "community" is complaining because law-abiding people are being stopped and frisked along with the criminals. The police SHOULD hang around these neighborhoods more and do more foot patrols. How else will they begin to understand who are the bad guys and who are just the regular people. Wearing a do-rag and baggy jeans does not make a person a criminal. People of color are aware of this and can spot the differences. Petrified white rookies from Long Island and New Jersey don't know the difference, or respect or understand the community. More of the RIGHT people will be stopped and questioned if the police go about their duty in a more enlightened way. People who live in these neighborhoods KNOW the difference. I'm not saying that any of this is easy, but that's the way things will have to be done to make some real changes.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:50 PM

So 12:27 please give us the 'tactics' that will work to stop street crime, protect police lives , AND protect the innocent people of color from (what you describe as) harassment.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:50 PM

Call Curtis Sliwa! Maybe he can give you some jackets and flashlights! Plus you can accessorize with the little beanies.LMMFAO! You guys kill me! Look do more stories on the Projects, OK.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end..

BTW They don't have shootings in Lodi NJ. Tony Soprano got things on lock here!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:52 PM

take a look around that block: there are several families with young children, as well as single men and women, and retirees, all ages, all races, many different classes.
i don't think this area is any more or less safer than most of brooklyn. every month a bystander is shot in the borough, so let's stop trying to figure out of clinton hill is ghetto or not. do you feel comfortable here? no? then do what you need to do, talk to the 88th, ms james, leave. just stop comparing this area t o park slope or the ues.
the residents i see, long- and short-term, have a strong sense of community, and, grand-street lock-down be damned, they still have their sunday bbqs. the people on this blog represent a small portion of those living in clinton hill, and it's extremely unfair to make blanket statements against the residents based upon what you read here. the fact that we all get fired up over a few comments goes to show the commitment we have to this neighborhood.
that's what will make this place better--sticking together. so champion your cause, get involved with the community, politically or not, but don't raze others if they deal with clinton hill's 'issues' in a different way.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:52 PM

I don't see how white gentrifiers walking around with a reflective vest and a flashlight is going to help the neighborhood. That sounds like a good way to get shot.

Residents need to get involved with the police dept, and demand more manpower on the streets. Since many NYPD newbies are commuters from the suburbs, and the higher ups are old timers, they may not realize the area is no longer "ghetto" necessarily.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:53 PM

12:53, after the first white person gets shot, you will see the neighborhood blanketed with cops.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 12:56 PM

Bus in the Park Slope stroller mafia. After a week of being subjected to the self entitled jerk-offs, the gangsters will flee eastward.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:00 PM

"So 12:27 please give us the 'tactics' that will work to stop street crime, protect police lives , AND protect the innocent people of color from (what you describe as) harassment."

See 12;50 #1, for starters. We need more people of color on the police force and particularly in the upper ranks. Only then will be begin to see some change and have CRIMINALS targeted instead of residents.

As Brownstoner pointed out, the attitude of the local police is, let's say, less than urgent. Would the attitude be the same if 50% of the precinct's officers and commanders were people of color (which I'm pretty sure it is NOT)? I don't think so.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:00 PM

And 12:50 - 1st of all who is "innocent" - people generally dont sell kilos of H or murder people in the middle of the street - so the tactic that the NYPD has successfully used is to go after the petty crimes b/c then you find weapons, people, cooperators, evidence that links to the big crimes you want to stop.

So what happens - people complain that the cops are discriminatory b/c they are summonsing/arresting/frisking or questioning people for things like drinking in public, marijuana pos etc.... b/c they dont do as many such actions in low crime (i.e. white) neighborhoods - which is true but also necessary to reduce crime - and the truly "innocent" aren't being harrassed.

2nd - dont you think the criminals also say they are just "innocent" people being harassed? Funny how no one in "the community" comes out to protest, express outrage or even support when a cop gets shot by someone who actually might be a criminal.

3rd - You can try to perpetuate the myth that all these cops are all a bunch of whites from LI - but the truth is far different - the majority of rookies are non-white, and the overall %s match NYC population almost identically

and finally do you really think that a community that has a widely accepted (and little critisized - within the community) creed of "dont snitch to the police" - really has much to complain about when crime is out of control?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:04 PM

Oh BTW!! Hey Brownstoner tell the wonderful people of this blog why you are so concerned with this shooting! I think you left out that very important piece of information.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:06 PM

if you guys think a violent crime against a white person is going to get the police to do something you are dreaming. The only thing it will do is cause a mass migration out of the area. Who the hell want to live like that? You will see the prices drop 20 percent easy within 24 hours of a bad incident. would you really leave your kids in an area like this

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:06 PM

There are crimes like this that happen all the time in Brooklyn, 1:06.

You are dellusional to think people would leave because of one incident.

Someone was murdered in Carroll Gardens a couple months ago. Homes (as we saw yesterday) are still selling for 3 million.

Murder in Boreum Hill last week. Neighborhood seems fine to me.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:11 PM

I'm not really so sure more Black cops would be better. I'm a black man who owns a home in Landmarked Fort Greene. I have been harassed on several occasions by black officers in the 88th. These black officers act more like overseers than officers.

To borrow from KRS-One, Sound Of Da Police..

Yeah, officer from overseer
You need a little clarity?
Check the similarity!
The overseer rode around the plantation
The officer is off patroling all the nation
The overseer could stop you what you're doing
The officer will pull you over just when he's pursuing
The overseer had the right to get ill
And if you fought back, the overseer had the right to kill
The officer has the right to arrest
And if you fight back they put a hole in your chest!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:12 PM

I wonder how many of those innocent 'people of color" who are being "harrassed" would actually instead be DEAD if the NYPD hadnt reduced homicides by over 75% in the last 15 years.

It might suck to get frisked - but its far worse to get shot.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:12 PM

I wouldn't care if I got frisked, if I were innocent of any crimes...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:14 PM

Maybe the LL at 505 could try not to rent to a bunch of scumbags on Welfare and Section 8 - oh he can't do that - Wilhelm Diblasio made that against the law.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:15 PM

32 cameras???

jeez.

a little overkill?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:16 PM

1:04 PM:

12:50 #1 here. Who said anyone was "innocent"? I never used that word. I'm pretty sure you are a cop. You sure sound like one. Entitled, obstinate, not willing to look beyond your own purview. Why would the community protest a cop being shot by a criminal? Cops are SWORN to take those risks....that's their job! They are supposed to face these risks. Everyone knows criminals shoot at cops. But cops ARE NOT supposed to shoot people who have not committed crimes. The fact that it happens SO OFTEN to people of color has led some to protest and ask why this happens so frequently.

As I mentioned previously, a big part of the "stop snitchin'" attitude goes back to the police. Why cooperate with someone who disdains you, harrasses you and thinks everyone in your community is a crook? Look at what happened with Mr. Brownstoner when he complained. The cops ignored him. If he were black, they'd liklely have told him "What do you expect? You live in the ghetto."

Please forward statistics that back up you claim that "the majority of rookies are non-white, and the overall %s match NYC population almost identically" because if you think I believe that, there's abridge downtown I'd like to sell you.

And you still do not address the scarcity of people of color in the upper ranks. Wasn't it this past weekend when some beat cop confronted a top black chief becuause the cop perceived that person to be part of "the community" and thus potentially a criminal?

This is the attitude that will be changed when more people of color are on the police force and in its upper ranks and fewer nervous rookies from outside of the community are stationed in what they perceive as "the ghetto."

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:17 PM

LL505 - what can they do? They need a Search Warrant - to get that they need a cooperator - to get that you have to stop/frisk and arrest people who they believe are coming to buy drugs - except that gets them criticized.

Then if they get the warrant and anything goes wrong - they are blamed.

And if everything goes right and they get the warrant and make an arrest or 2, the drug dealers just setup shop in another apartment and the people who are arrested only face a 50/50 shot of getting any punishment anyway.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:20 PM

Not a cop and here is one citation:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2007-07-18-815031511_x.htm

Diversity on the police force is "necessary to serve a diverse community. It builds trust," said Deputy Inspector Martin Morales, head of the NYPD's Recruitment Section.

One goal was to make the force mirror the city it serves. Officials say that over the past five years, about 35 percent of applicants have been white, 28 percent Hispanic and 27 percent black -- a breakdown nearly matching that of the city overall. A 2005 academy class became the first that was less than half white.

The current force overall is about 55 percent white, 24 percent Hispanic, 16 percent black and 4 percent Asian.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:24 PM

"Most regular readers know we live on this block...if propping up the value of our house were our motivation, why in the world would we draw attention to violent crime down the block?"

Awwwww Brownstoner.. Come here let me give you a hug, awwww there there now....... Tell Uncle What what happen, awwwww.

The What

Someday this war is going to end....

If you don't want blowback, don't post BS like this!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:25 PM

Brownstoner -

Why do you refer to the person shot as an "innocent bystander" in quotes? As I understand English usage, that would imply that you question her innocence in being shot - and I can't imagine that's what you meant to imply.

Is this a case of (1) petty ignorant nastiness or (2) misused quotes on your part?

Just curious.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:26 PM

Your right 12:50 you didnt use the word "innocent" - you used the term "law-abiding" - since they are synonymous I stick to my original point

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:28 PM

"LL505 - what can they do? They need a Search Warrant - to get that they need a cooperator - to get that you have to stop/frisk and arrest people who they believe are coming to buy drugs - except that gets them criticized.

Then if they get the warrant and anything goes wrong - they are blamed.

And if everything goes right and they get the warrant and make an arrest or 2, the drug dealers just setup shop in another apartment and the people who are arrested only face a 50/50 shot of getting any punishment anyway."

Another cop making excuses. Try some better detective work and find out who is at the top of the food chain and target THOSE people. You cops simply haven't done a good enough job of making cases against the right people. You're content to reach for the low-hanging fruit and blame pay scales, community attitudes, the weather, and whatever else you can dig up to give you an "out."

When I grew up in East New York in the 1970s and 1980s, the same guys were committing all of the trouble. These guys set up shop somewhere else because you guys target all the small fish - you can't land the big one. Also, getting blamed when something goes wrong is part of ANY job! Try working in corporate America! That comes with the territory. Beign a cop is a difficult job. No one disputes that. So, it takes exceptional people to do that job. Unfortunately, we have too many excuse-makers like you on the force. Our loss.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:30 PM

You know what would REALLY screw up this neighborhood is that gosh-darned Atlantic Yards project.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:31 PM

landlord505 -- i live in one of those four buildings and want to say that i (and others in my building, i think) appreciate what you've done... it did seem overkill at first, but they're not intrusive, and from what you said, are effective. thanks for being active.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:32 PM

12:50 - Police may be sworn to uphold the law - but that doesnt mean they are supposed to get killed doing it - and so it is only natural when they find themselves in perceived dangerous situations they are going to take action to protect themselves - which is legal!

And you know what - sometimes they make mistakes - but unless the mistake is completly ridiculous - it is not CRIMINAL - it might merit being fired, sued or what have you - but CRIMINAL laws are generally reserved for intentional acts or the the most ridiculous recklessness.

Therefore one reason "the community" might protest when cops get killed - is because doing so puts everyone at more risk - including the innocent.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:33 PM

Hey landlord505, when you bought that building you knew the risk associated with that location.

OH BTW You are that racist bastard that wont rent to black people! Yeah we heard about you, I know some Brokers showing apartments in those building and when you found out they was black, you put the brakes on. Thru the grapevine you was renting to only to White people. The big building on Grand Ave you A-F!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end.....

I love it when you throw a hand grenade!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:33 PM

"One goal was to make the force mirror the city it serves. Officials say that over the past five years, about 35 percent of applicants have been white, 28 percent Hispanic and 27 percent black -- a breakdown nearly matching that of the city overall. A 2005 academy class became the first that was less than half white."

Nice try. Police academy APPLICANTS are NOT working cops. And if your current stats are to be believed, more than 50% of the current force is WHITE.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:38 PM

I am not a cop - but you can keep saying I am if it makes you feel better.....

As for this statement:
"Try some better detective work and find out who is at the top of the food chain and target THOSE people. You cops simply haven't done a good enough job of making cases against the right people."

Do you have any idea how you "target the people at the top" - 1st you need the cooperation of the people underneath - and you get that by stopping, questioning and arresting them and then trying to 'flip' them. You cant just prosecute someone b/c "everyone in the community knows" he's a bad guy. - BTW that whole "stop snitchin" thing really helps your "target the top" strategy.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:38 PM

"12:50 - Police may be sworn to uphold the law - but that doesnt mean they are supposed to get killed doing it - and so it is only natural when they find themselves in perceived dangerous situations they are going to take action to protect themselves - which is legal!"

Cops aren't SUPPOSED to get killed doing their jobs, but that is a RISK they take, which is what I said. When you become a cop (like my Dad, my next-door neighbor when we grew up in East new York, and several of my friends in college days did) you understand that you run the risk of getting shot at. Also, I never said it wasn't legal for a cop to shoot at someone who he/she perceives to be a threat. That's reasonable to expect.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:48 PM

Actually 1:38 - I wasnt "trying" anything just addressing your point @ 1:17 where you said:

"Please forward statistics that back up you claim that "the majority of rookies are non-white, and the overall %s match NYC population almost identically" because if you think I believe that, there's abridge downtown I'd like to sell you."

As my citation shows - the majority of the 2005 class was NON-WHITE....now about that bridge....

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:48 PM

Seconding Johnife's comment about getting frisked. My husband is English, and the last time they did it they asked where he was from and when he said "England" they went "England huh? Didn't you guys pull out of Iraq...?" AND? A bored cop is not someone you want bothering you.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:49 PM

Doesn't really matter what the reason for "not snitchin' is - if the police haven't got that information they can't do much unless they are actually there when the crime happens.

"Not snitchin" is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:49 PM

I guess some people should consider organizing community protests and marches against crime instead of flea markets. That would seem to be a priority to me.Do not try to make it one now because a shooting occured in your neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:49 PM

Here you go - 2006 class -also majority NON-WHITE

http://www.thechief-leader.com/news/2007/0105/news/005.html

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:51 PM

The Baltimore police force is mostly non-white and has been for many years.

Doesn't seem to have much of a difference...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:54 PM

To the people who think they should grab flashlights and vests!

I am not sure where you people came from but I would like to give you a little advice. You do not want to try and mess with what is going on on a hot corner in such a way. I am not sure you realize the backlash that will happen. Those people have ZERO to lose except that corner. You should be more creative and remember that they were there before you. Goodluck and walk around the area before you buy next time

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:54 PM

However in the interest of disclosure - it does look like the 2007 class had 53% whites -

http://www.thechief-leader.com/news/2008/0104/news/005.html

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:54 PM

"Do you have any idea how you "target the people at the top" - 1st you need the cooperation of the people underneath - and you get that by stopping, questioning and arresting them and then trying to 'flip' them. You cant just prosecute someone b/c "everyone in the community knows" he's a bad guy. - BTW that whole "stop snitchin" thing really helps your "target the top" strategy."

Yeah. Stop and question the RIGHT people. The people who are involved with gangsters - the ones everyone in the community knows about - are the people who should be questioned. These people are quite different from the law-abiding folks in the neighborhood, and people who are in the neighborhood on a regular basis can tell the difference. By patrolling the neighborhood on foot and forming relationships with and getting to know people in the community, cops will figure this out, too. I'm not saying this will make everything perfect, but cops would have a better idea of who to go after if they do the legwork first. Furthermore, honest people will begin to help the cops if they feel that can have confidence in them. That won't be accomplished by dismissive and condescending police officers and commanders who ignore community complaints.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:55 PM

nosleeptil - did you call the DAs office to say the cops werent being responsive? Try calling the DA himself - he is up for re-election you know

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 1:58 PM

"There aren't any 1.3, 1.5, 2.0 million brownstones in bed Stuy. A few have sold for 800k + and maybe one or two over $900k and then the one at 404 Stuyvesant for maybe $1.15??...they are all within a 5 block radius of Fulton Park between Lewis & Stuyvesant...this corner is pretty far away from there."

Oh no Dave, no one was talking about Bed Stuy!

Hey where is Landlord505 huh, No responce, huh. *Crickets*......

Boy I love the convenience of this Blog. Just one big circle jerk!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:02 PM

Undermanned, underpaid officers could care less about crime in the community. They are just trying to make it back to the suburbs at the end of the day. Why cameras arent being used befuddles me.As for crime in general, all neighborhoods are affected. Some might be swept under the rugs and coded as misdemeanors for statistical purposes.This allows the pct commander and the dept as a whole to appear as though they are doing their job and thus makes the Bloomberg administration look good also.Just as you wont hear of this shooting in the news,you wont hear about alot of other crimes in certain neighborhoods. Those pct commanders sit on their duffs, fudging numbers to look good and be promoted or to keep the dept chiefs off their case.Things wont change until the community calls in the news and stages protests.Community meetings are just a forum for the pct commanders to schmooze the residents for the night until the next meeting.Until noise is made with a tv crew present, the community will continue to be given the number to headquarters.Everyone passes the buck.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:04 PM

1:55 you are correct - all those things can be done better - but if you think some 30K a year guy (black or white) is going to be forming "relationships" in a community that had a creed of "stop snitchin" or where a (tragic) mistake will result in reflexive calls for CRIMINAL MURDER charges then I can sell you back that bridge.

I'm white - I'm not a cop - in my interactions cops are very often condescending and arrogant - guess why I am not "outraged" - 1. B/c I recognize who is going to be attracted to being a cop (hint - cops are the same virtually everywhere in the world) and 2. and MOST IMPORTANT - I dont have to have that much interaction with cops b/c only a very very small number of people around me are criminals.

Instead of the "stop snitching" creed - if you really want to avoid the police - how about this creed - "stop shooting each other"

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:09 PM

Landlord, Send the tapes to any of the countless investigative reporters who want to break the next big story. The 6 pm news and the papers love to tell stories about how you brought the cops and the politicians the evidence, were ignored, and then some innocent woman was shot. This is your chance.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:11 PM

2:04 - you cant 'fudge' a dead body - homicide numbers are accurate - and down 75% in the last 15years - somebody must be doing something right.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:12 PM

5000:1 the cameras simply show a bunch of unrecognizable blobs moving around - surveillance cameras are virtually worthless at night.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:15 PM

Thank YOU 2:12. My sentiment exactly.

Back in the day, there was at least one murder in Bed Stuy and Clinton Hill EVERY DAY!

I also agree with 2:11...this is a story waiting to happen.

And a big one, at that...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:17 PM

"Instead of the "stop snitching" creed - if you really want to avoid the police - how about this creed - "stop shooting each other"

I'm cool with this, and one of my neighbors and I (we're both black) have had this conversation before. Young black people have to stop shooting young black people, plain and simple. That's a problem for the black community to solve somehow. But as a well-compensated professional and homeowner who is NOT a criminal, I DEFINITELY avoid the police because I simply don't trust them. Who's to say that I won't be the next "walking while black" victim? Am I really going to approach a police officer to provide assistance? Nope. Not "snitching" is a policy that some adhere to because they are criminals. But many other law-abiding folks adhere that policy because they have little evidence to suggest that police have their best interests at heart. Check out the post at 1:38.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:21 PM

I also feel cops are less likely to shake things up because if they DO encounter one of these "uber bad guys" and have to use deadly force - a white cop shooting a black kid is grounds for Al Sharpton and the crew to call for their heads. it's a high risk, low reward for the cops.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:28 PM

Uhhmmm 2:21 - would it be ok to say that "Young black people have to stop shooting [People]"

Those of us who are asian, hisapnic or white, would prefer not to be shot as well.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:34 PM

Do any of you people have any idea how difficult it is to get a conviction against one of those "uber bad guys" in front of a Brooklyn jury? I am sure there are 10,000 legitimate reasons for this based on historical racism, police misconduct etc.... but the fact remains....
the standard of guilt for a Black defendant in front of a largely black Brooklyn Jury - is practically proof beyond ALL doubt.

Things are alot easier then they seem behind a computer - posting on a Blog

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:42 PM

This is why I moved to Northside Williamsburg. The housing stock isn't as pretty, but the worst thing I have to worry about dodging are hipsters on vintage schwinns.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:46 PM

Let Charles Barron know, I'm sure he'll come down there an organize a demonstration. He cares about the community of course.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:48 PM

North Williamsburg crime has skyrocketed this past year, btw.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:51 PM

Only in Brooklyn would the fact scenario of:

"a car drove by last night at around 10:30 and sprayed an empty parked car with bullets, and in the process hit a female "innocent bystander" in the leg. She was reportedly not killed but, as the photos show, she lost some blood; as you can also see, a number of bullet holes are visible in the side of the building"

could result in 100+ posts mostly complaining about the POLICE! Clearly personal responsibility is not a concept that people around here have even contemplated.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:57 PM

north williamsburg crime skyrocketing?
why hasn't this been mentioned by brownstoner?

it's motto is "brooklyn inside and out"

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 2:58 PM

I missed the shooting by about 10 minutes, I live on downing st.(I am black) in the adjacent building in question. When my wife and I moved in 1999, our tires were repeatedly slashed, my disdain for the 88th began with my personal 1st visit to the precinct and has not changed since my most recent interaction (2 months of tracking an officer who failed to file an accident claim). The 88th is grossly mismanaged understaffed and mostly indifferent-fact. If I can tell you were to get weed and such from three different spots, who carries and who has a heater in their trunk from simple observation why can't cops do the same? Well in one instant i do know that a dealer has link to the 88th and kickbacks are definitely exchanged-how can we fight that?
As a citizen what does one do after calling 311 and the precinct to get a quick drive by.I have confronted the dice players, blunt smokers, dime sellers asking them to get off my stoop it does nothing long term, this corner is hopeless and will not change until the section 8 lifers(not all but I personally know many of them) leave, period!Cold hearted ?-come see for yourself.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:00 PM

"a white cop shooting a black kid is grounds for Al Sharpton and the crew to call for their heads"

Actually, as recent events have shown, the cop doesn't have to be white, the dead person just has to be black. Doesn't even matter if he was busy at a known drug-ridden strip club with his ex-con boys hours before finally getting around to marrying his baby momma since she'd popped out his second kid.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:02 PM

Only in Brooklyn could this horrible event happen in a neighborhood of 2 million dollar brownstones.

I also opted for a Williamsburg condo over a brownstone in FG/CH. Probably saved close to 500K and I don't see anything like this happening on Bedford Ave on the Northside EVER.

Muggings? maybe. But when people open fire out of a car window, it is a blatant disregard for the whole community, and shows they are not afraid of the police. You simply do not see this in other neighborhoods. All murders/shootings are not created equal.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:03 PM

Sooner or later one will admit this truth:

The What Is The Sun that This Site Revolves Around
Few Are The Planets
Some are the Stars
And most of you are holes in the sky....

Get jobs, get hard currency outta of bank and stock up, because there is truths in the What.
(and btw this site is wayover grilled.)

--whatEver

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:03 PM

Amen 3:00

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:06 PM

3:00 - Those Section 8 lifers arent leaving - in fact more are coming - that is courtesy of (soon-to-be-running-for-boro-president) Warren Wilhem (now known as) Bill DiBlasio!

As of March 2008 Mr Diblasio (name changed for electibility)muscled through a bill (over Bloombergs) veto, that made it ILLEGAL to refuse to rent to tenants with Section 8 vouchers.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:07 PM

It's a shame...I live and walk pass there all the time. It's a very shady corner and they need to empty that building at the corner and make it condos.

A ClintonHillLady

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:11 PM

The average police officer in NYC makes 75k+ with overtime. They are not underpaid.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:16 PM

Dave in BS--

I had you down as a Planet Man! But your lack of confidence suggests a downgrade to "Star" disappointing.

Where am I, no--where are you???
You'll get it to it though.
B' knows the Truth.

-whatEver

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:24 PM

Polemist - I thought you were a fiscal conservative?

No fiscal conservative could possibly be for capital punishment - it is the biggest waste of money and resources ever!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:25 PM

$2M for a brownstone here?

Why do the values keep creeping up in this thread?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:32 PM

"Actually, as recent events have shown, the cop doesn't have to be white, the dead person just has to be black. Doesn't even matter if he was busy at a known drug-ridden strip club with his ex-con boys hours before finally getting around to marrying his baby momma since she'd popped out his second kid."

Ok, the Cops shot a UNAMED man. The man background is not justification for this horrible act. Plus people git the balls to call me racist?!

"3:00 - Those Section 8 lifers arent leaving - in fact more are coming - that is courtesy of (soon-to-be-running-for-boro-president) Warren Wilhem (now known as) Bill DiBlasio!

As of March 2008 Mr Diblasio (name changed for electibility)muscled through a bill (over Bloombergs) veto, that made it ILLEGAL to refuse to rent to tenants with Section 8 vouchers."

Ok one and for all! There are many people are receiving some form of assistance. What the ^%$$ you think J-51 and 421A is???!!!! And the big tax breaks developers get to build BS new condo construction!!! But you want to put a black face on something when it's bad and a white one when it's good, Please!

"Oh man, I can't believe I missed this fun thread!

Crime is easy to stop. All you have to do is have blood guilt laws and capital punishment.

When parents are executed for the crimes of their children (and maybe even the reverse!), you'll see crime disappear overnight."

Like the biggest Mutant Real Estate Bubble in history. The fraud into Mortgage Back Securities, huh? The upcoming depression, huh. The violation of the Constitution in the illegal war in Iraq, huh? You are a F^&&* idiot!!!

"It's a shame...I live and walk pass there all the time. It's a very shady corner and they need to empty that building at the corner and make it condos.

A ClintonHillLady"

I rest my case.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:33 PM

"Well in one instant i do know that a dealer has link to the 88th and kickbacks are definitely exchanged-how can we fight that?"

Call the DAs office with that accusation.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:37 PM

2:12....dont be an azz.i know they cant fudge a dead body...but i also know they give finals that dont reflect the actual crime.Point is... the desk officer will continue to give the telephone number for headquarters to the 1 or 5 persons who show interest as opposed to at least a group of 50 or more inquiring minds showing up at the pct with a tv crew not far behind.Only then will the pct.commander pay more attention because he doesn't want his bosses calling.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:41 PM

Dave in BS--

Too late for you or for your home equities.
And arse sniffing wont get you nowheres.

You're a Hole in the Sky. Done.
Tough day for you lad, and for this wayway overgrilled site...

B'does know the (traffic) truths. And he'll tell you who's the Sun.

--whatEver

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:47 PM

No "What" - Section 8 doesnt have a "black" face you racist misanthrope. Section 8 is race neutral and its participants are of all races.

As for your comparison to J-51 and 421a - you are way off - no one is saying that Section 8 is 'wrong' - J-51 and 421(a) are both VOLUNTARY and so should Section 8.

Why should a PRIVATE LL have to take a tenant they dont want, particpate in a program that requires tremendous and expensive administration and notoriously late payments (months at a time) - simply by Government mandate???

If you said no J-51's unless you take Section 8 - fine, or no 421(a) unless 10% of the housing is Section 8 rental - also ok - legitimate use of Govt $. But why should a building owner, who simply pays taxes and provides a decent place for people be forced to take the worst of the worst in terms of tenancy - thereby ruining the building for those people paying market rate rents?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 3:58 PM

3.39 - will you be able to afford your expensive brownstone when obama institutes his 7% tax increase (removing the soc sec cap) on your group?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:03 PM

If the country was 1/2 as racist as The What wants to believe - then not a single African-American should vote for Obama - because it will only lead to more problems for the Black Community.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:06 PM

4.08 - grow up

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:15 PM

I agree with Putnamdenizen for the most part, except for the venom being excusable. It's amazing the latent desire everyone has for people to be punished for the housing decisions they've made, whether it be the tradeoff between neighborhood/price of the house they want or the pedigree of their kitchen. This great forum exists for people to share ideas and info, but it gets used as a tool for self affirmation and putting people down. Human nature for ya...ya'll will live and roast on the corner of hell equivalent to Putnam and grand.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:15 PM

Obama's tax increase will hit NY middle class - how is that making things better?

He'd get a lot more support in NY if he just dropped that soc sec cap plan.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:16 PM

doesn't anyone here watch "the wire"?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:17 PM

There's a lot of time and Congress between Obama and rasing taxes. As for New York, if Obama's the nominee he's winning the state.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:20 PM

I'd vote for Obama but for the tax issue. I'm not asking to pay less tax, but I've calculated I'm looking at a tax increase of 9K if Obama wins. Why would I vote for that?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:22 PM

I'd vote for Obama but for the tax issue. I'm not asking to pay less tax, but I've calculated I'm looking at a tax increase of 9K if Obama wins. Why would I vote for that?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:22 PM

Nokilissa - the IRS only sets the minimum tax you pay. You are fee to make voluntary tax contributions above that, so go ahead.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:24 PM

Nice one 4:24 - we only like tax hikes that soak the "rich"

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:27 PM

If I lived in a neighborhood with this type of crime going on I would try to do something radical, especially if I owned property.

if there's any truth to the rumors of possible drug dealer kickbacks to bad cops at the 88th, then time to clean house.

I'd also hassle the mayor's office until they installed security cameras on the streetlight poles like they did in Sunset Park.

At the very least, if landlord505 is for real, make the tapes available to the local news channels who can then make the 88th look bad for ignoring the offer to help with evidence.

Mayor Bloomberg doesn't like it when he looks bad. And I think the rampant crime in this part of Brooklyn makes him look really, really bad. On a lot of levels.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:32 PM

Lets

Clinton Hill sucks!!

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:37 PM

Don't you guys watch the movies?! When you go after cops who are on the take, they go after you!

Alot easier for me to just rent somewhere else, and not buy in a crime ridden area.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:41 PM

see...this is why i prefer park slope...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:44 PM

The cop who says, "What do you expect from this neighborhood?" lives in Suffolk, Putnam and Orange County. They don't realize that the people who stayed in Brooklyn frequently did so by choice.

Clearly given the choice they don't live here nor can they afford to do so.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:45 PM

Please get the facts straight...A woman was NOT shot, it was a man who's a friend of mine. He was shot in the leg. A car rolled up and started shooting and I KNOW for a FACT the people doing the shooting were NOT from the neighborhood. And please w/ the drug dealer kickbacks to 88th...Where do you get this nonsense?! Most of the people who deal in the area are petty nickel/dimers who live with their moms!! There aren't kicking anything to 88th, some of you watch too many movies. This shooting was not drug-related, it was random. My friend got released from the hospital and will be missing two weeks of work. I'm just happy it wasnt more serious.

clintonhillchill

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 4:59 PM

sounds like someone (4:59) trying to protect his buddies at the 88th precinct...

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:05 PM

Yeah okay 5:05 believe what you want...but I have a pulse on whats going in this neighborhood that I've lived in for 30 plus years..I know who sells and who buys(including A LOT of newcomers) and I don't have a high opinion of police..I have no reason to protect them but I do have reason for putting out the truth.

clintonhillchill

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:11 PM

4:59,

If they're all petty nickel/dimers and you're sure there's no corruption with the 88th cops then this should be real easy to solve.

But, how do you KNOW for a FACT that the shooters aren't from the neighborhood? And why do you say it wasn't drug related?

Do you also KNOW for a fact that the 88th did NOT get an offer from a landlord with security tapes to show them?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:12 PM

isnt that the corner Biggie use to swing rock on? Why would you live there if you dont like rock dealers on the corner? The brokers should tell people that they have rock dealers on every corner to trick the gentrifiers into thinking they can get some good bling in the hood.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:16 PM

if you know for a fact who the shooters are not, then i suggest you come forward to the police with some answers.

if not, you are aiding an attempted murder.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:34 PM

"isnt that the corner Biggie use to swing rock on?"

S-L-I-N-G. SLING rock. Poser.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:42 PM

Wow, you people are really out there...I'm aiding an attempted murder?! Of my friend?! It's not my job to do police work and the fact that I know that the shooters were not from around here will NOT solve the case. I say it wasn't drug related because it wasn't and none of the people shot at or the person shot were selling drugs. And 5:12 please tell me how you make the corelation between petty dealers not kicking back dough to 88th and the shooting being easy to solve?! It was a drive-by!! Seriously, you need not speak on what you don't know about.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:46 PM

Wow, you people are really out there...I'm aiding an attempted murder?! Of my friend?! It's not my job to do police work and the fact that I know that the shooters were not from around here will NOT solve the case. I say it wasn't drug related because it wasn't and none of the people shot at or the person shot were selling drugs. And 5:12 please tell me how you make the corelation between petty dealers not kicking back dough to 88th and the shooting being easy to solve?! It was a drive-by!! Seriously, you need not speak on what you don't know about.

clintonhillchill

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:46 PM

I agree with 3:03 who bought a condo in williamsburg. From my experience, many people are opting to buy a decent sized condo in a convenient, safe neighborhood over a brownstone in an area where the ghetto mentality exists. in my lifetime, i am not hopeful that the type of culture that celebrates easy money, violence, lack of parental responsibility (or financial or personal responsibility either) will go away. i am just going to avoid the ghetto/violent areas and people because i don't want any part of it.

better cops, more money, etc.. do not matter. they cannot help here. a change in people's attitudes is what's needed.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:50 PM

KNIVES OUT! Three more gruesome Billyburg blade crimes
By Ben Muessig
The Brooklyn Paper

• A crook robbed a North First Street woman in front of her apartment on April 11.

The blade-wielding mugger confronted the woman when she exited her apartment, which is between Wythe Avenue and Berry Street, at around 1 am.

“Don’t look at my face,” he said, pulling out the silver knife. “Give me your s—.”

The victim forked over a pink leather wallet, credit cards, a monthly Metrocard, an iPod, a Nokia cellphone and $100.

Cops believe this mugger is behind a string of robberies on Metropolitan Avenue that were reported in The Brooklyn Paper last month.

• Another woman was mugged in the lobby of her Harrison Place building on April 11.

The crook was sitting in front of the building, which is between Bogart Street and Morgan Avenue, when the victim got home at around 8:45 am. He forced his way into the building when she opened the door, grabbing her from behind.

“Take your jewelry off before I hurt you,” he said, showing the knife.

The woman gave the man two rings — one containing a diamond — and a necklace, worth $755.

• Two violent thugs slashed a 21-year-old victim on Scholes Street on April 12.

The crooks approached that man at around 1:25 am as he walked between Manhattan and Graham avenues.

“Give me your money,” one of the thugs said, before slugging the victim in the face with a closed fist and slicing his left hand with a knife.

The victim handed over $20.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:57 PM

Hey 4:45, you forgot Rockland.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 5:58 PM

North Brooklyn murder rise bucks city trend

The murder rate in north Brooklyn is going up - even as the number of killings citywide continues to drop, NYPD statistics released Tuesday show.

Murders were up 8% in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brownsville, East New York, Crown Heights, Bushwick, Fort Greene, Williamsburg and Greenpoint in the first nine months of this year - 104 victims, compared with 96 for the corresponding period last year.

The city, however, saw during the first nine months an overall 18% dip in murders with 351 killings, down from 428 in the same period last year.

Some of the murders were connected to drugs or fights. But others involved innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire.

One Brownsville murder took the life of a 24-year-old Police Athletic League janitor who was described by family and friends as "hardworking" and "beautiful."

Marcos Cayetano was cleaning up after a party when shots ripped through the air on July 22.

The north Brooklyn precincts also have seen a rise in shootings, bucking another citywide decrease.

Shooting victims are up almost 9% in the area, yet the citywide figure is down almost 7%, the stats show.

Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said the murder rate had dropped 8% and crime overall 20% in northern Brooklyn since 2001.

"The increased number of gun arrests [up 9%] ... this year, as well as arrests overall [up 11%], is indicative of the Operation Impact and other resources being deployed in Brooklyn North to address crime there," he said in a statement.

The 73rd Precinct, which covers Brownsville, has logged the largest increases, with murders up 37% - 22 this year versus 16 last year - and shooting victims, up 50% to 93 from 62.

Andrew Karmen, a professor in the sociology department at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said more cops may not solve the problem alone.

"The long-term solution is investment in these neighborhoods and the lives of these young people," he said. "Of course, usually it's the short-term approach that's taken."

City Councilman Charles Barron (D-Brooklyn) agreed.

"The answer is economic development," he said. "Not police containment."

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 6:00 PM

"i am just going to avoid the ghetto/violent areas and people because i don't want any part of it."

So basically you want to live in a bubble. Live in what is the most suburban of NYC neighborhoods where everyone is a 20 something from the Midwest, and pretend like there is nothing wrong with the world...?

Wow...you are really pathetic.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 6:07 PM

ClintonHullChill,
I understand you have some 30 yrs in clinton hill but I have some first hand knowledge of a certain storefront(will not mention but if you do have your finger on the pulse you will know which store I'm speaking of) that remains a safe haven because of the 88th turning a blind eye to what is obviously going on. The owner had divulged too much info to a close reliable friend-the store is "off limits". Lets not be naive, corruption makes people money and the 88th is corrupt. My first comment was posted @ 3:00.
Like your blog though.
DowningBylaw

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 7:06 PM

There were no murders in Greenpoint, to be clear.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 7:17 PM

6.07 - presumably you don't want to live in war-torn Darfur or in Lebanon. Does that make you pathetic?

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 7:24 PM

HELLO, HELLO, HELLO.....

Yes, many of the bloggers on this site and many others documenting the moves of the new urban trendsetters have consistently practiced covert racist dialogue without recognizing the facts and even the role that they play in "Institutionalized Racism". Sit tight it could get real rowdy (summer is a coming, people are fustrated, families severly fragmented and the economy is getting tighter - not rocket science - all groups have proped themselves up on questionable tactics when faced w/ such - no less may not be expected from one oppressed for centuries - 1964/65 civil right act was one of the most profound initiatives too curtail slavery/ racist economic oppression and benefit probably the oppressor even more, do the research!!!!!!) .

The "people in the neighborhood" who do conduct illegal business w/ the dealers are a minority (the few). However, for those who have lived under these conditions or some form there other have become disgusted and totally disillusioned with the "powers" that those responsible for oversight provide. Hell, education that which is doled out in the neighborhood schools can barely serve as a remedy (again, Institutionalized Racism!!!!!).

Institutionalized Racism is economic oppression doled out by institutions. RACISM IS ECONOMICS. As usual it is so disgusting to read or even hear self-centered, egotistical, ignorant, money-grubbing individuals comment on issues that they refuse to be part of a solution, but more and the same of the problem. Nothing is new!!!!!! Your only concern is that it is impacting your economics. Obviously those in power find it much more economically feasible for things to continue as is. New Thought: Had not it continued as long as it has, many of you would not have been able to obtain your economic investments. Maybe, just stay quiet and let the neighborhood boil over to the point that all the "undesireables" exterminate themselves. Though do remember as Brother X stated how the chickens do come home to roast. And, should you need to be reminded; Black Man, White Man and the Native man were all sold on the same slave block until the white man realize it may not be as economically feasible since his own daughter could be sold on that same block. Also, if he kept those appeased who more so resembled him ( skin color association only) he could continue inhumane and implausible behavior towards other human beings (the original man - Dominate Genes wipe out recessive genes - Which I don't suppose that many are aware).

Who are you people who feel superior to comment on people that you have no real dealing, understanding, compassion, love or otherwise basic consideration? I am so disgusted by the BS that continue to persist based on THE ignorance of MANKIND!@!!! As a previous blogger stated, maybe if one of the other brothers or sisters from parents of the "Majority" were to whacked maybe things would change - Any Martyrs. All, one hears from you emotionally bankrupted individuals is the "Brownstones". THEY ARE INANIMATE OBJECTS!!!!!! GOd Bless Us All.....

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 7:25 PM

Please, all you do is care about yourself.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 7:38 PM

If you moved to NYC to live inside your little bubble and never see any violence or anything remotely bad, then you should have watched something other than Sex and the City when you were canvassing the tube for ideas about what this city was like.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 7:58 PM

I was thinking of moving to brooklyn from manhattan, but it seems like a racially charged place. i am reading a lot of hate in these posts and i don't need that especially since i am starting a family. forget it. the burbs may be boring, but that's better than the animosity i'm sensing here. my parents are right, i don't want to be in a place like brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at May 15, 2008 8:31 PM

putmandenizen, all by himself, could convince anyone not to move anywhere near Brooklyn.
I really did not understand your post but I know I don't want to live near you.

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