4th Avenue Development Marches On (And Up)

Where's the slide show? It's not visible at 11:13 AM.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:14 AM

If these buildings get ground floor retail - and some landscaping is done on the center median - 4th Ave could be real nice in 5-7yrs

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:18 AM

There are two biggies also going up/gone up on 17th street (yellow brick with balconies)and 20th- grey brutalist style with big windows and balconies

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:23 AM

anyone who's been around for 10 or more years know that what's happening on 4th avenue is nothing short of remarkable.

i agree that a planted median would make all the difference in the world. i'm sure all the new homeowners moving in in the next couple years will see to it that it gets built.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:26 AM

you forgot hotel le bleu...

you know...the hotel that everyone said would fail but is sold out nearly every night of the week...

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:28 AM

There's also a site on 26th and 4th Avenue that's been cleared (for development?). It was a gas station/car wash that was closed for years. In recent weeks, they've demolished the buildings and removed the gas tanks.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:35 AM

4th Ave had tremendous potential for both residential & commercial development. A wide boulevard, a lot can be done with it, and as a life-long resident of CG, I welcome new buildings, new life on 4th.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:37 AM

Ground level retail is the big if. Not sure I see that level of planning in any of these shoddily designed buildings.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:38 AM

11:26 I agree - but I have to say I am suprised how dumb the developers have been re:4th - 1st retail would seem like a no brainer for creating a pedestrian friendly strip - and if retained in condo ownrship - the developers could reap the profits long into the future (even if the initial ROI was less than for 100% residential) and 2nd - landscaping in front of the buildings (much less on the median) would be an EXTREMELY cheap way to immediately improve the look - and saleability of the apartments.

I am sure in the end - with this much $ being put in - it will work out - but the rate of change could be easily much faster with just a bit more thought and a tiny bit more $

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:42 AM

This is amazing. I really hope that 4th avenue will develop into a desirable address.

These developments will add foot traffic to 5th avenue, and as a commercial property owner on prime 5th...it will be a great plus for me :)

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:48 AM

Check your "facts" 11:28.

According to the Hotel Le Bleu reservations calendar, there is not a single sold-out day. Not one. Not in May, June, July or August.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:58 AM

Attention Whole Foods, can you pls get going with the supermarket at 3rd and 3rd already? :)

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:00 PM

12:00

Pssst, WF has no say in this development...

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:06 PM

i walk by hotel le bleu every evening as i walk my dog and notice it is quite filled up.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:06 PM

I agree that in 5 years or so, 4th avenue might be really nice, but who is going to buy these places right now? It seems like every day the NOVO slashes its asking prices. There just isn't the demand yet, and I think these are going to be a hard sell in the near future.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:11 PM

Every time I go by Le Blue it looks deserted. I see more action at the dialysis center next door.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:35 PM

Yes, we all agree that ground floor retail is great but look around. There are empty retail spaces in all the new buildings and many existing on prime streets -- COurt, Smith etc. The cost of rent, insurence (high for ground floor) etc. is just too much for most businesses.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:35 PM

12:11 - really - I havent seen any major prices cuts announced at NOVO and based on the lights and foot traffic - it looks like Crest has sold very well.

12:35 #1 -Le Blue I dont know about sold out - but whenever I go by - the parking lot seems pretty full and the lights again seem to indicate it is doing well (at least in terms of occupancy)

12:35 #2 - The retail vacancies on Court (arent too many new buildings or vacancies on Smith) or even Atlantic are sort of irrelevant to 4th Ave - it is a totally different neighborhood, with totally different traffic patterns (both vehicle and pedestrian). Not to mention that the thousands of new residents on 4th itself will need services.

That being said (large) retailers (like Bankers) are sheep - once one store opens and is successful - they all follow. Unfortunately the buildings built to date do not have provisions for retail. And I am willing to bet that long-term - the ground floor space of these buildings will be worth more as retail than as parking or as residential (who wants a ground floor apt next to 4th Ave?)

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 12:56 PM

The ugly gray building on 20th Street appears to have retail space on most of the ground floor. It'll be interesting if they can lease it out.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 1:10 PM

Starbucks is retail

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 1:40 PM

Yes but this Starbucks looks to be part of a small taxpayer shopping center - geared more for cars then pedestrian.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 1:50 PM

...forever known as the Olive Garden Building.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 3:50 PM

I'll simply repeat my comments from last week's write up on 4th avenue development:
Other than the allure of lower prices than that of, say, 6th avenue or other swankier parts of the Slope, I don't understand why people would want to live off of Fourth Ave. No, I'm not speaking in terms of the way it looks. It's the noise factor. No matter how pretty you make the building, how much you build up the Avenue itself, it remains a high-traffic area replete with rumbling trucks and their accompanying horns, etc. Double-paned, sound-muffling windows are great, but the moment you open them, you will be assaulted by the ridiculous noise level. Relax on a balcony or terrace facing Fourth Avenue? Forget it! I live on relatively busy part of Fifth Avenue directly in front of a bus stop and every summer my blood pressure spikes in response to the noise from having my windows open. (I refuse to waste electricity and run the A.C. when a fan will do in some temperature ranges.) The only thing that keeps me somewhat sane is reminding myself that at least it's not Fourth Ave.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 6:23 PM

Argyle seems to be going up fast now. I'm curious if it will end up looking as nice as the rendering, or kinda fugly in real life (like Novo, Crest and Le Bleu).

On a positive note, the crummy bodega at 4th and 7th has reopened as a much nicer "natural" store.

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 6:25 PM

Does anyone know what, if anything, is going up at 4th ave and 15th?? It was an old run down brownstone that was tore down about a year or so ago. The lot has remained empty ever since...

Posted by: guest at May 21, 2008 11:14 PM

Level set the projections-- 4th Ave is going to be/feel like Houston in terms of convenience, ammenities, shopping, etc. However it will be a lot better in terms of living because you won't have a weekend flood of tourists and jersey folks.

Given the pricing, good layouts, and modern high end finishes, they will be great investments compared to the cost of doing a complete renovation. The mint stuff in PS will always be treasured, but there are a lot of crappy renovations w/bad finishes, bad layouts, crappy kitchens, and chopped up bedrooms on the market.

The market fundamentals are strong-- the buildings are catering to young parents who don't want to move to the east village, dumbo or the burbs. This is a strong and growing segment that cannot find good 3 bedrooms. The trend in Manhattan is to buy and combine units.

I can understand the crotchety old farts or renters who complain about aesthetics, but if you have young kids, you need convenience, space, parking, clean interiors,good kitchens, and no roaches.

Anyway, the businesses on 5th ave are going to boom. 4th will come along as well.

Shout out to the OG's (the OG's... keeping it real w/the original gentrifiers) and other administrative assistants who hope to write screenplays.

Posted by: guest at May 22, 2008 12:03 PM