Stylish Times at The Flea

really amazing media coverage - congratulations.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 10:48 AM

"The mix of the people you saw at the Brooklyn Flea was really the best part of it. It was very race-mixed, gender-mixed, age-mixed. It was very family, but in the larger sense of the New York family. It just had a very Brooklyn vibe in general."

What??!!! "Race-mixed"???!!! Oh I see Black People disguised is White People, Brilliant! Hey Brownstoner, did you get people from the local homeless shelter to do this? You are fucking fake!!!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 10:56 AM

yes, great you're getting lots of press.
But that comment- "It just had a very Brooklyn vibe in general" - what the hell does Trebay mean by that? Or is it just something that is required to be added no matter what? Just to make you think he 'has his finger on the pulse' of everything in NY?

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 10:57 AM

This may be a silly question but were there any bikes there? I haven't been able to make it yet but if I can get a bike I'm there!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 10:58 AM

I stopped at the flea for a moment last Sunday. I was disappointed to see that it did not reflect the look of the community in any way.

Since it was featured in the New York Times Style section this Sunday, I look forward to the event's parody on stuffwhitepeoplelike.com, which has the Style section's number.

-sg.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 11:28 AM

A WEEKLY DOUCHEBAG CONVENTION

WHOOOOOPEEEEEEE

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 12:23 PM

Thanks to an erroneous cancellation message on this very website, I missed the first flea, but I made it to the second one. It was hugely disappointing. The selection of goods was nowhere near what I expected and the prices were in many cases HIGHER than ones found in stores. Oh well.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 12:33 PM

I haven't been yet - but to be completly judgmental based on looks alone those 3 guys (above) are exactly what I'd expect from the Brownstoner crowd - and what I find so annoying about most of you. Everyone trying so hard to be unique and thereby looking, acting and thinking exactly the SAME as all the other "unique" people.

I also find it appropriate that Brownstoner selected photos showing phonographs = just like Brownstones are generally a compromised product that while on the outside look great the reality is that they are expensive, a lot of hastle and often far inferior to more modern versions - despite the relgious claims of "character", "soul" and other totally subjective (and non verifiable) claims of its adherents

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 12:37 PM

The What's posting is actually pretty relevant, given that the post-Clinton Hill after parties from the last two years were strictly white only affairs.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 12:41 PM

The concept is outdated, and can't compete with the convenience, selection and prices of online vintage shopping. I think it's cute that you guys want to do this, but I also think it's a bit of a marketing ploy for the web site and for the real estate market in the neighborhood, trying to bring newcomers to the area. I've always known brownstoner.com as a real estate and development speculator's tool, rather than a website that celebrates these communities as they are; and I must admit, I've used it as such, especially the forums. However, I do get a bit sick to the stomach realizing just how much change this site and its associated events bring to areas whose charm and character depend on people appreciating them for what they are and enhancing their services, rather than bringing in the hordes from manhattan for yet more condoization.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 12:41 PM

"but I also think it's a bit of a marketing ploy for the web site and for the real estate market in the neighborhood, trying to bring newcomers to the area."

DUH! What a discovery!! Genius!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 1:01 PM

I love how white people see five Black people, three Latinos, and eight Asians amidst a group of hundreds, if not thousands, of white folks and that constitutes "very race-mixed."

And man, you have GOT to be kidding me with your "my BF is black" comment. Joking, right? When white people feel compelled to say that, it's basically one of the most tell-tale signs of a giant, whopping closet racist...

The flea market is a hot idea. I think the organizers (hello, Brownstoner!) just need to show a little more respect for the value of the actual community it is in by going out of its way to attract more truly local vendors and vendors who will meet the needs of us residents--we majority--living in the immediate area. Maybe a discount on fees for businesses from (or vendors who live in) the immediate area? Actively recruiting black businesses? Something... an effort, at least... Otherwise, it's just another typical whites-move-in-on-the-beauty-and-lower-cost of the Black nabes gentrification...

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 1:01 PM

OK a success = a race issue. This is why I dispise people who wear race on everything. You know, the neighborhood is a bit different now and although I think it is wonderful that it has a diversity factor why don't black vendors (not that I thought of labeling them as such) simply register their booth with Brownstoner and stop the stupidity. Really, get over yourselves.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 1:30 PM

I went to the Flea on Sunday and was dissappointed. It had a lot of crafts and baked goods, but certainly was lacking in the weird/cool old stuff department. The markets that used to be in Chelsea were much better than this; it sucks those are gone now.
As far as concerns about racial diversity- I just don't get it. I'm pretty sure the vendors are willing to sell their stuff to people of all colors, shapes and sizes.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 1:32 PM

It is comical at best that the same people calling the attendees douche bags and gentrifiers, are the same people who probably love Bruce Ratner and his huge gentrification project. Now you can think of it this way, they will have somewhere to shop. But while you are wasting your time complaining about this, Ratner is plotting to do a great big gentrification jobby over you. Nothing will be cheap then.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 1:44 PM

What is a "post-Cinton Hill after party"? Post what, and after what?

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:03 PM

another fun flea day - as a clinton hill resident, it was nice to see so many of the local shop owners vending as well as those from out of the area. I am also glad that the majority of the thousands of people who went and enjoyed have more to do with their time than bitch on blogs. I will now join them. thanks brownstoner, for a cool sunday market - makes us stay home on sundays!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:07 PM

To the people who think that the Flea market is largely being done to promote the website and therefore to promote the brownstones in the neighborhood for the sake of increasing their value: You can't be serious.

To the people who have a problem with the racial composition of the crowd that was there (which to any reasonable mind is entirely beyond the control of brownstoner) : You just simply can't be serious.

To the jaded, ignorant, depressed, angry, self-loathing posters who think this guy and this website are racists, even though i've certainly never seen any proof: You cannot be f*&^%*# serious. Get a f#$%^&# life.

No, I don't have any connection to the flea market, Brownstoner, the site, the advertisers, clinton hill, the brooklyn real estate market, nothing. (ok - I do own a place in brooklyn. but i don't need or want to sell.) I'm just calling shit on all the venom being spewed here lately for no good reason!

asking brownstoner to try to control the racial composition of the vendors and/or shopping crowd is a very weird notion. How can anyone seriously think that he did anything other than put the information about the flea market out there for EVERYONE to take advantage of: black, white, brown, yellow, green, whatever.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:15 PM

RE: "appreciating them as they are....." in 1968, a friend's mother felt forced to sell her house in park slope for 10,000 because a speculator told her it was only worth tearing down because it was in a slum. jobs and residents were leaving brooklyn in droves. we could go back to THOSE days and THAT status quo. as far as i know, neighborhoods and cities, like brooklyn, either get "better" or "worse," in dollar terms. show me any city, anywhere, where this is not true.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:17 PM

Isn't the guy there in the yellow, black?

So one of three photos is of an African American. 33%. That's about 20% more than the percentage in the United States.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:20 PM

guest at April 14, 2008 2:15 PM

I like you, and your post!!!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:23 PM

Daveinbedstuy wrote:

"Are those pics of what you people call "hipsters?" Arrrggghhhhh"

dave, Please post your picture so we can comment. arrrrgh

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 2:32 PM

I agree with everyone but Dave.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 3:15 PM

Great and detailed post 2:15. Anyone who thinks a flea market doesn't evolve, hasn't a clue about them. The dollars control what sells. It's simple and green is the same whether it comes from Asian, white, black or Latino. Vendors don't care. From a racial perspective, it's more important that non-white vendors make money and get their opinion of the value of the flea market. If white vendors make money off of black customers someone will cry, racism. What do you say when black vendors make money off of white customers? It's not a racial thing, it's a flea market.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 3:15 PM

I would love to see Dave's picture, however I just ate can it wait till tomorrow.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 3:46 PM

god, you just don't get it...

clinton hill (and bed-stuy, and harlem and fort greene before it) was a community of black folk--with a hell of a lot of brownstone OWNERS, not just a bunch of ghetto poor criminals like so many people think who worked HARD to turn the neighborhood around. we saw a hard time, but we worked to make it better. (or should i say, our parents.) we got more and more streets landmarked, as the economy got better and we were all doing better, we put that money into our neighborhood. then what happened? suddenly, a bunch of white folk heard crime was down and noticed how beautiful our homes were and said, hmmm... let me get a piece of that! and they went and paid asinine prices for homes that were offered way too high by the (stupid, not-forward-thinking---but how could you ever blame them??) owners ready to cut and run. and our hard work benefitted THEM. benefitted YOU. now our children can't even afford to live here anymore. unless we own (and by we i mean black folks who aren't already millionaires), we sure as hell can't afford to live here. so what happened then? the same thing that always happens: the affluent (and predominantly white) folks take over, african american history is stripped, and the less affluent (and i don't even mean poor--mean not rich) and mostly black folks get pushed farther and farther and farther to the margins... again. I.E., gentrification.

the booklyn flea market is just another totally obvious symbol of that. and all of you here, saying, "black people can come if they want" and "what responsibility do the organizers have?" it's about ETHICS. and HISTORY. AND COMMUNITY. either you're really ignorant and clueless, or you're so unethical and unkind that you should be ashamed of yourselves.

think of it this way: would you set up a flea market on historically significant Indian lands and just ignore Indian culture, people, and their contribution to the very land you're using and benefitting from?

Probably.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 3:50 PM

The guy in the yellow is Black, but he loses 25% in Black points for being a wannabee hipster. So only 75% of him counts toward the official Black count. I take my Black self all over Pennsylvania and Maryland attending flea markets. Sometimes I am the only Black person there and sometimes not. Sometimes I buy from Black vendors, most of the time not. I really don't care one way or the other.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 3:53 PM

um, 2:20, maybe next time someone will post one picture of a Black person, one Asian, one Latino, and one white, and you'll think that means that statistically, 25% of the people in attendance were Black, 25% Asian, 25% Latino, and 25% White.

"See? The four pictures prove it was super, duper diverse! So shut up all you reverse-racists," you'll say.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:01 PM

First of all - no one has told me if there are bikes. And second of all anytime ANY race bitches that their neighborhood is being taken over by another race, its stupid. Harlem was originally Dutch. And seeeing that I am Dutch - I think you need to leave my neighborhood. Oh wait, I wouldn't say something so stupid because I realize, having studied history, that things change, neighborhoods evolve or devolve and you just can't stop these things. Instead all you do is waste time being pissed off.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:15 PM

"yes, most of those black families were homeowners. This process, call it want you want, happens everywhere all over the world and is accelerated in speed and price during good economic times."

Actually, it's correct to state "most of those black families ARE homeowners." Brownstoner broke down the stats some time ago.

The other part of your post is pretty offensive. I want to pose a question to you: why do you those who live in the neighborhood feel excluded from this event? It's a different demo from what you see at the neighborhood block parties. It's a different demo from the arts & crafts fair that was/is? held at Restoration Plaza in Bed Stuy in the summer.

Again, segregation raises its ugly head and its pretty sad.

-sg.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:18 PM

I guess 3:50 would have preferred that Bstoner turn this into an all you can eat chicken buffet instead.

That would have been more appropriate, I suppose.

Or less.

Who knows anymore.

3:50 is the most racist person on this thread, so I really don't care.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:25 PM

4:05, yes, we all know those neighborhoods were largely white before they became black. but in between, some of them, like clinton hill and fort greene, were largely integrated. wealthy black folk lived there quite a long time ago. but how did they become predominantly black? because white people FLED when they felt too many black people were coming around and "bringing down the neighborhood." the neighborhoods were no doubt wonderful in the beginning, but times got harder, prices dropped, more black folks could afford to move in, and white people ran with the wind. white owners did not stick around with the black owners to try to keep the neighborhood strong. they LEFT. they ABANDONED IT, and left the hard, hard work of holding the neighborhood together to the black owners. a lot of affluent, or at least middle-class, black owners STAYED. and worked hard. and it took a very long time. and then what? like I said, a whole new crop of white people then said (and continue to say), let me get a piece of that...

I'm sure the Kanarsee Indians would be, as you say, "welcome" to come if they so chose. but if that's *good enough* to you, respectful enough of them, their history, the history of the land--simply saying, hey, we're doing this here in your community, and if you want to come, fine-- then you just made my point for me...

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:27 PM

"clinton hill (and bed-stuy, and harlem and fort greene before it) was a community of black folk--with a hell of a lot of brownstone OWNERS"

A. These neighborhoods remain primarily black. Many of these longtime residents are owners.

B. Many black homeowners remain, and others moved out on their own, selling their houses for good money and leaving NYC to live in bigger houses in less expensive comunities (many in the South ansd West). They were not necessarily priced out.

C. A FLEA MARKET has no obligation to recognize the "people, and their contribution to the very land" of black folks who live there. That's just stupid.

As other posters said - it's a flea market. That's all.

BLACK HOMEOWNER IN CROWN HEIGHTS

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:28 PM

"clinton hill (and bed-stuy, and harlem and fort greene before it) was a community of black folk--with a hell of a lot of brownstone OWNERS"

A. These neighborhoods remain primarily black. Many of these longtime residents are owners.

B. Many black homeowners remain, and others moved out on their own, selling their houses for good money and leaving NYC to live in bigger houses in less expensive comunities (many in the South ansd West). They were not necessarily priced out.

C. A FLEA MARKET has no obligation to recognize the "people, and their contribution to the very land" of black folks who live there. That's just stupid.

As other posters said - it's a flea market. That's all.

BLACK HOMEOWNER IN CROWN HEIGHTS

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:28 PM

"because white people FLED when they felt too many black people were coming around and "bringing down the neighborhood.""

CORRECTION: White people fled because black people WERE bringing down the neighborhood.

Take a look at stats for how many black men vs. white men commit crimes in Brooklyn and get back to me.

This was not because someone felt a certain way. This was because the angry black youth have and continue to be a burden on the criminal justice system in this country.

Do something about it instead of blaming the white man for buying some overpriced vintage items.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:31 PM

4:15,

The Dutch and the Blacks arrived in Haarlem at the same time. The Dutch brought the Blacks with them to do all of the stuff that they did not want to do. For free! Remember.
It suprised me to learn that my four greats grandparents, one African and one Native American did not speak English but spoke Dutch, the language of the people for whom they worked. For free. Right here in NY.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 4:51 PM

I do remember slavery, as I said, I studied history. But I had nothing to do with slavery. Neither did my family. Maybe if they'd thought ahead they would have immigrated a few centuries earlier so that I could have my very own brownstone and I could have been angry at the people moving in next door and being so bold as to organize a community event like a *gasp* flea market!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 5:07 PM

a flea market is open to everyone. stop with all the race shit.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 5:34 PM

now that's one hell of a mustache on the guy on the right! look at that thing!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 5:36 PM

e affluent (and predominantly white) folks take over, african american history is stripped,

There are tons of affluent blacks in Ft. Greene.
Spike Lee much?

Gentrification is a class issue.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 5:49 PM

what a fool.those in power can change history and strip it for thier own benefit. You should think before you write Troll.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 6:21 PM

Let's see, a flea market brings more racial tension than a black man running for president of the United States? Hmmmmmm is something wrong here or is it just Brooklyn? It's a Flea Market, A Flea market: you buy used and broken shit. Or new shit or overpriced shit. But it's all shit for sale. Race issues are better debated on Yahoo chat groups.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 7:02 PM

There were bikes the first week and I was told that there will be bikes next week too.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 8:28 PM

the primary problem here is that white people, as a general rule, are annoying.

I am white myself but have been told by countless black people, a few puerto ricans and an authority on filipinos that i am a refreshing exception to this rule.

i managed to thwart any predisposition towards being annoying because i grew up in oakland.

but yes, as a rule of thumb, i think it's safe to assume when meeting a new white person that he/she will eventually annoy you.

thanks for your time.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 8:31 PM

the primary problem here is that white people, as a general rule, are annoying.

I am white myself but have been told by countless black people, a few puerto ricans and an authority on filipinos that i am a refreshing exception to this rule.

i managed to thwart any predisposition towards being annoying because i grew up in oakland.

but yes, as a rule of thumb, i think it's safe to assume when meeting a new white person that he/she will eventually annoy you.

thanks for your time.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 8:32 PM

I think Brownstoner should become a super delegate. After all, the people here are as stupid as those running for office (at least the democrats).

The republican's are going to take this election for the whole Hillary "Bama bullshit. It divided the party once again.

Now we are going to go on about this flea market and you know what, the neighborhood is so going to benefit long after the racial troll is trolled out.

Brownstoner for Superdelegate. Brownstoner for property values. Keep up the good work Stoner.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 8:54 PM

he had no point Dave, he grew up in Oakland

what is "an authority on Filipinos" and why would he say something racist about white people being annoying in general?

I too cannot believe these posts on the subject of a flea market

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 8:57 PM

"Goes to show that no good deed ever goes unpunished. This is a good thing for Ft.Greene/Clinton Hill, a good thing for Brooklyn."

Montrose Morris = Armstrong Williams. Damn Morris, just when I was warring up to ya. This is a good thing for Asshats, not for the "people" of BROOKLYN!!!!

The What (YAAAHHH Shit)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Hey BTW Where is that assfuck Biff. Maybe getting a pap smear.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 9:11 PM

I'm a multi-decade homeowner in Clinton Hill who has witnessed and participated in plenty of change hereabouts. The notion that any neighborhood belongs by right to any one race or ethnicity for any reason at any time defies history, logic, and evolution. And as a matilinear descendant of a group at least twice enslaved (once in biblical Egypt and then as Russian serfs into the twentieth century), I am pretty tired of the "it used to be ours" argument. Sure it did. And before that it was somebody else's. And before them, someone else. As recently as the early twentieth century, some of my ancestors lived in rented apartments in completely segregated "communities" conveniently "abandoned" by the wealthy of their cities: the ghettoes of Venice and Minsk. But time moves on, and some of my ancestors managed to get out alive and make it to the US, where they lived in hellhole apartments on the Lower East Side and fought to get their kids a decent education. I can't go back to Venice or Minsk or the Lower East Side (which I couldn't afford now even if I wanted to live there), nor would I expect anyone in any of those locations to be sympathetic to a claim of entitlement based on - what? "My ancestors lived here, they were part of the 'community' then, so I'm entitled to live here now!" Huh?

Older homeowners who may be selling to newcomers of all colors in Clinton Hill and Fort Greene do so because it's to their economic advantage, and by free choice. And when I choose to sell, it will be to whoever offers me the best deal, regardless of their color - especially when people of all colors and ethnicities have contributed over many decades to the revitalization of Clinton Hill and Fort Greene.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 9:28 PM

"And as a matilinear descendant of a group at least twice enslaved (once in biblical Egypt and then as Russian serfs into the twentieth century") - BTW In neither situation were they chattel to be bought and sold away from their families. ANYWAY

We are talking about Brooklyn! You would definitely have my approval to go back to Egypt and/or Russia and complain about either of the two not having diversity in their flea markets.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 9:42 PM

9:35 i started taking you serious until you wrote:

"And as a matilinear descendant of a group at least twice enslaved (once in biblical Egypt and then as Russian serfs into the twentieth century), I am pretty tired of the "it used to be ours" argument".?

So WTF happened in the West Bank? Tell your people to chill the fuck out!! I forget are we in code yellow now?

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 10:27 PM

I am a black vendor at the Flea, and find this whole racial discussion to be absurd.

Although I understand the general sentiment behind the idea, I disagree with the poster who suggested that Brownstoner reach out to black neighborhood vendors and offer them a discount in order to have them represent. The rates to rent a space are reasonable, and much less than most markets I've done. $100 for a 10x10 space is cheap. Less for a table is even more reasonable.

No one needs to pander or condescend to the black community, we are quite able to pay our own way, just like everyone else. I'm sure when this market is better known, more vendors of all kinds will apply. I would welcome a good African goods seller, with unique pieces, not airport art. The Chelsea Flea had a couple of really good ones last year. Sooner or later, one will be there.

A piece of salvage, a Victorian settee, an antique coat, or even a silk screened onesie is not white, black, yellow or brown. It is what it is, and all kinds of people either want it or not. Vendors just want to sell what we've gathered or made. US currency is still green. That's my favorite color, and why I'm there.

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 11:43 PM

9:35 to 9:42: Sure we're talking about Brooklyn, and a flea market - and the attitude of some commenting on this blog with respect to what appears to be their feeling of entitlement to live in a certain place based on recent history. I'm saying that argument makes no sense, based on any history. And when people quit defining themselves racially or culturally in terms of "my people" and "your people," and start respecting others as individuals first and foremost, perhaps we'll make some progress. But thinking of others as members of monolithic groups (i.e., "your people") is the basic definition of prejudice.

Back to the market: I second rh at 1:41 and Rehab at 2:52; had a great time at the Flea, think it's great for the neighborhood, and look forward to many more!

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 11:52 PM

woah. (shaking head in disbelief) ok. first; thank you to b'stoner and the flea people for loving this borough enough to write obsessive and wonderful posts about most anything over the years. thank you for a flea market that will definitely evolve in a most beautiful way.
finally, yes, there were bikes both weeks, but i need to see more. i'm in the market.

Posted by: guest at April 15, 2008 5:22 PM

try the route 70 flea market in nj:

Route 70 Flea Market
117 Route 70
Lakewood, NJ 08701
908-370-1837
Fri 8am-2pm, Sat-Sun 7am-4pm. Year round. Rent is $9 per table space. 500 Dealers, 500 booths, 1000+ customers
This is a true Flea Market!
Centrally located on Rt. 70 from GSP or Rt. 29

Posted by: guest at April 16, 2008 4:11 AM