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April 28, 2008
House of the Day: 1860 Bedford Avenue
When we were house hunting back in 2004, the beautiful but neglected brick house at 1860 Bedford Avenue in Lefferts Manor was on the market for about $550,000 if we recall correctly. (This makes us think the $185,000 sales price from 2004 listed in Property Shark is not correct.) Now it's back on the market for $900,000. According to a tip we received, the current owner bought it with the intention of moving his medical practice, only to be stymied by zoning restrictions. He's completed the interior demolition and put in new joists and sub-floors but that's about it: Tabula rasa for the right owner. As great as this house could be, this price seems like a big stretch given how much money will have to be put into it. Agree?
1860 Bedford Avenue [Fabrikant] GMAP P*Shark
What's Up with 1860 Bedford Avenue [Brownstoner]
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Comments
sorry, but with all that interior work,
the price is definately too high.
it is a beautiful house though!
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 1:34 PM
You can't get a mortgage if he's gutted the interior and left it unfinished. Even if you could get one, who wants to deal with the LPC over a place like this in this fringe nabe?
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 1:41 PM
We saw another one of these same style of corner houses in beautiful condition and it's a really nice layout. Different from the typical brownstone layout. I like. But this one is so much work.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 1:42 PM
$900,000 for a house with no interior? Bwaaa-hahahahaha!
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 1:43 PM
$300,000 in cash and it's a done deal.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 1:46 PM
This house has great potential. All the houses around it are so pretty and well maintained.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 2:03 PM
Wow. I remember this house from 4 years ago! I was told the same story about how it was promised to a local doctor, blah blah, blah. something is fishy about this whole thing... BUYER BEWARE
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 2:03 PM
I was also house shopping in 2004 and made a bid on this house. The parking garages and the light on all sides were a real plus, but the fact that it is on noisy Bedford Avenue was not. I've always wondered why it was never fixed up after it sold back then.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at April 28, 2008 2:05 PM
The realtor's website features some delightful aletrnatives in Haiti.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 2:07 PM
While this house has been a neighborhood eyesore for a long time,it's potentially really beautiful.
This house has been on and off the market a couple of times in recent years and, I'm told, the owner has turned down some rather high offers. I ran into the current broker outside the house a few days ago and it seems that the owner is really ready to sell now. The new broker BTW has lived in LM and knows the neighborhood.
I think that this house might appeal to a buyer who likes our neighborhood, but prefers a house like this to a traditional brownstone and also would rather have a modern interior--no details preserved here to interfere with making a personal design statement:-).
You might be able to buy a very nice brownstone here for the price of this house plus the cost of renovation, but NOT a house like this. There are only a handful of colonial revival houses like this one in PLG (or the rest of brownstone Brooklyn). 1:42 must be referring to oa similar one a couple of houses from this that was a hit on our HT a few years ago (and was featured in the NYT real estate section just before that tour).
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 2:09 PM
Nothing fishy about this house. Just a neglected beauty.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 2:11 PM
I rode by it on Saturday, and it's a wreck. Maybe for 550k, but you'd have to put another 500K into it to make it anything
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 2:17 PM
2:03,
Nothing fishy here that I can see. Just indecision by the present owner and on the part of the last person to actually live in this house, years ago--a really sad story which I'd rather not relate here.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 2:19 PM
...but you will anyway because gossip is what makes real estate interesting. Do tell Bob.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 2:34 PM
is it true that you couldn't get a mortgage on it? that's gotta cut down your pool of potential buyers
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 3:15 PM
Please, please, please, Bob?
Posted by: Nokilissa at April 28, 2008 3:16 PM
OK, OK 2:34 and Nokillissa,
Bare bones version--elderly couple, husband dies, wife moves to a nearby apartment, but can't bring herself to sell the house, so it remains empty and deteriorates. Very sad, but no real juicy or titillating details. Aren't you glad you asked?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 3:22 PM
3:15,
AFAIK the usual procedure for a shell is to get a construction loan, to be followed by a mortgage after the renovation is completed. Perhaps someone less oblivious to finance than me might care to comment further.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 3:25 PM
Well if Chicken Little is correct, this nabe will de-gentrify and the price will drop by 50%. If this sold at 550K a few years back, then it is worth $275K in this market.
If that makes no sense to you, Chicken Little, then you know why I am calling you Chicken Little.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 3:28 PM
WHY? i do not understand why anyone would want to live there. people having been trying in this neighborhood for 20 some years! it's no where near any of the other brooklyn hoods you could chose from. you will hemmed in without a public school system and little amenities. for what? a stupid old shell? it makes no sense. too far, and too horrible a hood.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 3:30 PM
I have never heard of a neighborhood "de-gentrifying"
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 3:43 PM
3:30, "people have been trying in this neighborhood for 20 years"? I think you mean people have been loving this neighbohood for 100 years. In fact, once people buy here they usually stay for 30-50 years! The few houses on the market now are mostly from elderly people who've retired or died. Why do you suppose that is?
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 3:52 PM
3:43, talk to some Philadelphians.
Posted by: Heather at April 28, 2008 3:58 PM
3:52 PM, you must understand - 3:30 meant white people.
Regardless, I live around near here and I'll take nice neighbors, great supermarkets, and not that bad of a commute over overpriced coffee, yuppie bars and unruly stroller Moms and kids anyday.
PS (I'm white)
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 4:31 PM
Go to philadelphiaisnotbrooklyn.com
Teh comment relates to a post the other day that entire sections of the city will de-gentrify once the entire sky falls.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 4:33 PM
3:52, I like the area but I personally know 5 families who moved there and left after 1-2 years. And there are currently about 20 houses in Lefferts Manor for sale, which is a big number for such a tiny enclave. I appreciate what the area offers, but it is certainly not for everyone!
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 4:38 PM
20 houses? Name them.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 4:41 PM
3:30,
Most of your reasons for disliking PLG/LM are subjective and, while I disagree, there's no point arguing, but FAR? Is one subway stop from Park Slope [7th Ave.to Prospect Park] really far? From what?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 4:52 PM
My husband and I stopped by the open house on Sunday. It's a shell, of course, though it has the potential to be beautiful. There's lots of light on the second floor, and they've dug out the basement so the ceiling is full height.
It's going to be a LOT of work - and a labor of love as well, since it's both restricted to one family and in an historic district, which may limit your design choices. This is a property whose NYC assessed value has fallen over $100K this year to $780K, which is much closer to what I believe it's worth in its present state.
- Mrs. Fartan
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 4:53 PM
5 families? Name them.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 4:53 PM
"20 houses? Name them."
BHS has 5, corcoran has 5, C21 has 3, and there at least 7 others with small realtors or FSBO. Half of Midwood II is for sale! Check out the listings.
"5 families? Name them."
Ha. You live there, I'm sure you knew them since I'm sure you know everyone.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 5:09 PM
That's not naming them. You made the claim, now name the addresses and families. I don't know any families that moved to LM and hated it.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 5:25 PM
5:25, don't be such a baby! I would never violate people's privacy like that. But I know that one of them has posted on this site about why she moved in the last few months. As for the others, you'll just have to ask your neighbors.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 5:32 PM
You resort to name calling when you're called out for dramatizing? There are not 20 houses for sale in LM; Brownharris does not have 5; Corcoran does not have 5. C21 does not have 3: there are not 7 others. Midwood two has 3 houses that were owned by lonnnnnggg term residents who have retired or died. There are only two houses for sale on the block by owners who haven't lived here for over 30 years. It's about time there is some turnover on the block. You try to make it seem like these are all houses that are occupied by gentrifiers who are fleeing. Not the case.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 5:46 PM
5:09,
"Half of Midwood II is for sale!" Really?
There are 84 houses on Midwood II. I live there. I don't know of 42 being for sale. I do know of 2. You wouldn't be exaggerating a touch, would you?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 5:51 PM
Bob, I know you spoke to the realtor, but honestly, the owner can't POSSIBLY be "really ready to sell" if they're asking $900K.
Why would you buy this house if you could get a house with walls, windows, plumbing, and floors down the street for the same price?
I know this house has potential but that asking price is just too high to be taken seriously.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 6:20 PM
6:20,
I have no idea what price the owner actually actually expects to get. When he withdrew the house from the market a few months ago there were rumors that he did not intend to do anything at all with the property for a few years. I guess those rumors were wrong and I'm glad that the house is back on the market.I live around the corner and am tired of seeing it in it's present sorry state. You ask "Why would you buy this house if you could get a house with walls, windows, plumbing, and floors down the street for the same price?" Most people would NOT do so.I probably would not (I LIKE traditional brownstones AND would have neither the courage, nor the resources to take on such a project), BUT this house is VERY different from a traditional brownstone and has very special qualities for the right person who, I hope, would be very happy there.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 6:44 PM
Thanks Bob. And you're right. Not much fun there with that one.
This house does seem like a truly beautiful potential, but I am totally unfamiliar with the neighborhood.
It reminds me a touch of the "shell" of a mansion with great potential and beauty on Washington Ave. in Clinton Hill. The difference is that the brokers are smoking crack on that one. Asking more than 3 mill.
Anyway, just an opinion. Maybe I'M smoking crack to think there's any comparison. Hmmm, am I smoking crack?
Posted by: Nokilissa at April 28, 2008 7:16 PM
Even if there really were 20 houses for sale in Lefferts Manor (which would mean they're all on Midwood per Bob's joke, because none are on our own street) keep in mind there are 600 houses in Lefferts Manor. You know, just for perspective.
People in the neighborhood are hopeful somebody will buy this particular house and fix it up. So they speak highly of it here. But it's without question overpriced for all the work it needs. If the sellers were truly serious about unloading it they'd set a floor or minimum that would cover what they owe on it and have an auction and get it over with.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 7:25 PM
You guys are behind the curve. This house has sold and is slated to become a hair and nail salon.
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 8:36 PM
I just spoke to the broker and will be @ next open house for I've always wanted a place like this. But the broker (who seems like a nice guy) is convinced that 900K is a steal and he compares the place to properties in PS or the fact that the appraised sister property down the street appraised for $1.5 million. Is this true Bob?
I personally think a fair price would be around $700k but who knows. The fact that there are more intact houses for sale on Midwood probably will bring some sense to this greedy owner..........
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 9:02 PM
9:02 wrote: Is this true Bob?"
What, that $900K is a steal? (Well....) or that a similar [beautifully renovated] house down the street appraised for $1.5 million (very likely).
I don't really knows what a fair price would be--my gut tells me something between your figure and the asking price, but what do I know?"
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 9:17 PM
8:36,
Everyone knows that there's a crying need for more hair and nail salons in PLG [NOT--inside joke] but the Lefferts Manor covenant would preclude that use here.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 28, 2008 9:22 PM
No question this is the perfect house for the right buyer. But not at that price.
FYI Bob I share your pain. I walk by this house EVERY F-ING DAY on my way to work. I am glad to see it on the market but I would prefer to see it on the market for an asking price that will invite more people to actually take a look and make an offer.
-6:20
Posted by: guest at April 28, 2008 9:53 PM
1. the "right buyer" will be hard to find for this property (hard-pressed to call it a house)
2. minimum of six months work; more likely a year or more before it's livable...
3. literally, not figuratively, a shell: only one modest fireplace surround exists as detail; everything else except the bricks and patched sub-floor is gone -- no pipes, electrical service, etc. some good news in that, but nothing an amateur DIYer would generally be able to handle...(w/out quitting their day job)
4. while existing maintained homes hold their value well, this one's a real crapshoot in terms of where market will be in twelve months...don't need to restore to original condition, but renovation/restoration would need to be done to a certain standard in order to fit into the LM market...
5. given need to self-finance such a property/project, the risk-reward equation puts this well below the ridiculous $900K ask - maybe half....
Posted by: guest at April 29, 2008 10:07 AM
Keep in mind the "appraised sister property" down the street that appraised for $1.5 million is owned by a real estate broker. These two are beautiful houses but you have to take that appraised value with a grain of salt.
I'm with 9:53. Please price this house right for once and get somebody in there who will fix it and take care of it properly! In a case where a house is in this condition, it's irresponsible to be making property values a priority over getting a more responsible and committed owner in the house.
Posted by: guest at April 29, 2008 11:03 AM
Interestinly, there are several "right buyers" according to the broker who has received at least three offers on this property already. One offer "is very handsome".
As Bob Marvin noted, there are only about four of these neo-Georgian Colonial houses in Brooklyn (perhaps the City) and this house does seem to interest a lot of people in and outside the neighborhood. So I guess this place is quite unique.
I have heard so many people say this house has the potential to be an amazing neighborhood gem but only with a PROPER renovation. The roof line is a work of art and seems to be in good condition. 100 percent re-pointing of the exterior, new windows, and restoration of the garage would be a good start. The other interior stuff like plumbing, electrical, dry walls, etc. would follow and move fairly quickly since the house is a clean slate. I'm sure there are community architects and contractors willing to offer free consultation to the new owner(s) to get them on the right track. Ideally, it would be nice if someone in these trades would purchase the house.
Posted by: guest at April 29, 2008 11:18 AM
There are 11 houses in LM on the market. Four are on Rutland and seven are on Midwood Street between the two blocks of Flatbush and Rogers. Two or three of these properties are in contract.
Posted by: guest at April 29, 2008 11:32 AM
11:18 wrote:
"As Bob Marvin noted, there are only about four of these neo-Georgian Colonial houses in Brooklyn (perhaps the City) and this house"
A slight exaggeration--I can think of three others in Lefferts Manor and one in Park Slope (none of which are for sale)--but there are only a handful and your point is sound. This is a VERY unusual house for brownstone Brooklyn. BTW, the similar houses in LM are all attached in the rear;1860 Bedford is free-standing, so, I guess,it could be called unique
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 29, 2008 1:54 PM
Hey 9:02 here, thanks Bob. I think you are right this house is unique which part of the reason why there is so much interest. Do you have to abide by LPC rules when doing a complete interior rebuild like in this property? I thought in a case like this the landmark folks would only be interested in the exterior facades and single family covenant..is this true?
Posted by: guest at April 29, 2008 6:19 PM
LPC does have to sign off on any interior work that requires a DOB permit, but AFAIK their role is virtually ministerial on those parts of the interior that cannot be seen from outside.
I would think that the LPC would actually be very helpful with the exterior renovations, although doing this work in an historic district is more costly than elsewhere.
LPC has no interest in the single family covenant, but the Lefferts Manor Association does. Since the building also has R2 (single family) zoning the City would also enforce that occupancy.
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 30, 2008 9:29 AM
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