He Built This City

oh it doesn't matter if everyone leaves, the population is going to grow by at least one million right? Didn't you tell us that polecat - you know "housing shortage" and all those other red herrings you trot out.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 9:56 AM

I have personally benefited from the rezoning - being able to buy a decent condo at a decent prize plus the reduced mortgage rate for the area.

I'm glad that developers are building condos at places we would have not even considered 3-4 years ago (Gwonus, Red Hook, Bed Stuy, Queens Plaza). We just need to make sure we don't go over the top (in some areas we already have - LIC, Williamsburg, etc) instead of developing other form of housing.

What I don't like is the promise of affordable housing. It seems the reality is below the the target numbers. Hopefully, 421-a expiration this summer and eventual restructuring will help spur affordable house as much as these new condos.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 10:02 AM

This City has been so fortunate to have had the last 2 Mayors. Many people may hate them, but it is hard to deny the incredible strides in saftey, infrastructure, commerce, etc. that have been made. Even though this city is not perfect, it is a hell of a lot better than the days of Dinkins and prior.

How will we find another Bloomy after he is gone? The wrong guy(or gal) could really screw this city along the lines Polecat refers to above.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 10:04 AM

I'm with Polemicist. Moreover, the comments by Mr. Lander are just asinine. What in the world is he talking about, regarding "sense of place"?? Oh, wait a minute, I just realized what he means. During the golden Dinkins era, all New Yorkers certainly had a sense of place, and that place was being holed up in your apartment at night behind triple-locked doors. One knew that the street at night was not your place -they belonged to rats and muggers.

I wish these "community activists" and other such malcontents would get a real job. As others have said, get invested in the growing, thriving city that NY has once again become.

Benson.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 10:26 AM

Brad Lander = Douchebag.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 10:31 AM

Brad Lander = Douchebag.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 10:33 AM

Brenda;

I don't agree with you, in several ways. There are still plenty of places in this city that are within reach of the mythical cops and teachers. They are just located further away from Manhattan (which shouldn't really be an issue for many cops and teachers, as most do not work there). I'll give but one example that I'm familiar with. If you go to Gravesend and Bensonhurst, there are bucketfuls of condos being built that are reasonably priced. The fact is, many of these condos are so reasonably priced that they are being snapped up by many Russian immigrants who have been here for about 20 years and are climbing up the economic ladder.

Moreover, I don't buy the argument that cops and teachers haven't benefitted from this boom, and I state this based upon my first-hand experience from when I used to live in Bensonhurst. Twenty years ago Bensonhurst was chock full of the type of folks you speak of. Many of them cashed out during this boom: selling their homes for great prices, and then they moved to Staten Island or Jersey. They could have stayed put: it was their decision to cash out and reap the benfits of the boom. That's capitalism, in its glory.

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 11:27 AM

toxic thread

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 11:53 AM

Please not again with the teachers and cops meme. After five years the average cop in NYC makes over of 75k with over time. Teachers make more hourly than your average architect, certain engineers, and other professionals. Both of these important professions are well compensated compared to their private sector peers.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:06 PM

Having smug hipsters running around Red Hook is not a good thing. They are the worst neighbors in the world! Bring back the crack dealers and mafia.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:09 PM

Besides banning smoking and transfats, what has Bloomberg actually accomplished?

Nothing.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:14 PM

My teacher friends with seniority are making over 100K. My cop friends at top pay with OT over 85K.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:33 PM

doucheinbedstuy.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:48 PM

doucheinbedstuy.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:49 PM

doucheinbedstuy.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 12:50 PM

I hate to tell you this guys, but Bloomberg did not create this idea of urban development. Urban renewal(Harlem, Bed-Stuy, Westside Highway, etc ) has been discussed and on the city agenda since I was a child in the early 1970s. For the past 35+ years there has been talk about developing the Brooklyn watefronts, Red Hook, the Altantic Yards and the area many of you now know as Metrotech, etc..... I would suggest that before you give kudos to Bloomberg you do your research on former Brooklyn Boro President Howard Golden (who was a Beep when BPs had real power) Councilwoman Mary Pinket, Mayors Lindsay, Koch & Dinkins. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but City plans are established many years before they actually come to fruition.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 1:13 PM

DaveInBiff'sFly

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 1:35 PM

What did Bloomberg do?????

- Lowered Crime to historically low levels (probably the most important job mayor has)

- Kept City fiscally sound during post-9/11 period

- Maintained 'race relations' at the best level in modern history

- implemented 311

- achieved Mayoral control of schools from corrupt Board of Ed

-has shown some progress on education through better test scores in lower grades

- Kept City services working pretty well

- DID NOT SCREW UP (ala Crown Height Riots / Washington Heights Riots/Lindsay Snow storm etc...)

- helped keep Employment at historically high levels

-helped get 2nd ave subway started again

-promoted NYC as a tourist locale across the globe (tourism at record high)

- achieved various rezonings in various parts of the city

- set an achievable agenda for sustained and intellegent growth for next 30 years

plus the smoking ban - which will probably result in more lives saved and more $ saved then just about any initiative in modern history.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 1:40 PM

DaveInBiff'sFly

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 1:41 PM

and don't forget has been supporter of AY.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 1:50 PM

1.13 PM;

Are you for real????? Lindsay and Dinkins were the worst mayors this town has had in recent times.

I'm sure you could point to some grandiose announcements emanating from their office regarding a redevelopment plan. Plans are a dime a dozen. Nobody paid any heed to the grand plans of these two incompetents, as they couldn't even get a grip on the basics of governance, such as controlling crime, dirt and expenditures. The murder rate almost tripled under Lindsay, and hit an all-time high under Dinkins.

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 1:59 PM

"Also, learn how to use your browser...not even a moron like The What posts three times...lunch break is over get back to work"

YOU, daveinbedstuy are the biggest loser on this blog.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 2:18 PM

Koch and Beame were just as bad as Dinkins. Even though Dinkins was not an efficient city manager, I would not put the blame for the increase in crime on him. Crime starting increasing under Lindsay and topped off under Dinkins. The proliferation of crack/cocaine helped along by Federal policy - Remember Noriega? Iran-Contra? U.S. government aid to support the poppy seed growing Taliban in Afghanistan? Crime started decreasing under Guiliani because of his borderline civil liberty abusing tactics, a request for federal aid to hire more cops initiated under Dinkins and a decrease in the population most likely to commit crimes. Also having cronies as Commissioners worked in Rudy favor until all of the corruption was uncovered. Bloomberg is one of the best, if not the best Mayor that the city has ever had. He was able to accomplish more than Rudy without alienating whole communities and using bullying tactics. He is the first Republican Mayor that I have ever voted for.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 2:43 PM

um...you posted yours 3 times, Dave and then asked bstoner to delete the other two.

idiot.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 2:49 PM

i don't need anyone to tell me, dave.

i saw your comment posted three times in a row with my own two eyes.

and then two of them were mysteriously gone 5 minutes later.

you need to shut up. have you noticed that no one really cares what you have to think because you are such a know it all?

it's really gross.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 3:03 PM

daveinbedstuy- I didnt read the book but if you are referring to crime statistics - the crime decreases in NYC were far more pronounced then any demographic, economical or social changes (that naysayers have used to say that the Admin doesnt effect crime rates). Secondly NYC crime reduction at various periods in the past 15years actually went against national trends where crime was rising.

Point of all this - NYC has been 'different' then the U.S. as a whole and other comparable large cities, which lends significant support that the NYPD is actually doing something that is reducing crime and it is not just a statical, demographical, economical or other such factor.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 3:19 PM

i want to add that you are a loser.

that's all.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 3:33 PM

I think Lander's been pinched a bit too hard between the ears. His liberal mumbo jumbo days are heading to an abrupt end. Once he trots out folks like ACORN as the redeemers of society I'm sure he'll have his head handed to him. Affordable housing is a myth. It isn't affordable, and doesn't produce housing. It's a way for elected officials to steer money to their developer friends who put money into real estate taxes which makes the prices go even higher. Then, when the market hiccups they start investing in St. Louis where they can get a deal - the City loses out on the real estate taxes - the local economy tanks - fear breeds crime - the affluent leave - and the roaches and liberals take over the streets once more. Get out your pointy boots and be ready to stomp on Lander. Follow him and his idealism and we'll all be in a roach motel for sure.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 3:35 PM

What 12:14 said. He's a wealthy dictator who disdains anyone who doesn't happen to agree with his viewpoints. He's full of crap.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 4:12 PM

What 12:14 said. He's a wealthy dictator who disdains anyone who doesn't happen to agree with his viewpoints. He's full of crap.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 4:14 PM

2.43 PM;

It seems to me that you are more interested in making points about national political trends than in analyzing what happened in NYC.

As I stated in my previous post, the murder rate tripled under Lindsay's watch, which was well before Iran-Contra, Noriega and all the other national political events that you mentioned in your post.

You are also full of it with regard to the reasons for the crime decrease. As someone pointed out, NY's startling decrease in crime was an anomaly at the time, when you compare it to the national trends, as well as what was happening in other big cities.

As for Dinkins: the man was far worse than just a "not efficient manager". This is the man who let a riot run unabated for three days in Crown Heights. He is the man who let a group of racist thugs set up a "demonstration" in front of the Korean green grocer on Church Ave, continually threatening the proprietor's life in broad daylight. He's the man who ran to comfort a drug dealer's mother when he was killed in an armed struggle with a police officer (who was exonerated), yet could not find the time to comfort the parents of a tourist from Utah who died in trying to stop a mugging on the subway.

If you think that Giuliani abused civil rights in restoring some semblance of order in this city, after the reign of such an incompetent mayor like Dinkins, then I say "let's have more civil rights abuse".

Please stick to posting on the political blogs. If you want to blog about NYC, then get the facts straight.

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 4:26 PM

Denton;

Nice try, but it won't work.

Giuliani was responsible for all of 1995. He started January, 1995. Why don't you compare 1994 (Dinkin's last complete year), with 1995 (Giuliani's first complete year)?

Well, I can see where you're going: time to play the race card, it it, Denton? I guess that when you can't win the debate on the facts, you can always use that card as a last resort. It's what all the losers do in these types of situations.

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 4:43 PM

Who are you Benson to tell people what they should blog about here. Brownstoner is fair game for anything from war to strollers. But oh, I forgot, you just said "let's have more civil rights abuse". We see where you are coming from. I wonder if you would say that if your civil rights were being abused. BTW, the city paid out more money in lawsuits to victims of Police misconduct under Guiliani than at any other time. I agree with 2:43 and daveinbedsty's reference to "Freakonomics" which actually details some of what 2:43 stated. You should read it and the UCR - Put out by the FBI detailing crime and crime trends in America, so that you can get your facts straight.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 4:45 PM

To all the Freakonomic's advocates;

Can someone explain how Chicago, which has ademogrpahic make-up similiar to New York's, and a similiar "situation" (older dense city, formerly industrial and now centered on the service sector) has almost double the crime rate?

Anyone ever think that leadership can make a difference?

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 4:57 PM

Denton;

Keep trying!!

First, please note that I was born in NYC. As a native of NYC, I know the difference between NYC and NY State. I know the population of NYC is not 18,000,000. If you look at the statistics that you supplied, they are for NY State. Look at the population figures (18,000,000)

Second: tell me where I denied in my post that crime started declining in his term??

Third: did not the murder rate hit its all-time peak under Dinkins, which is what I DID state in my e-mail?

Fourth: was the drop in crime not significantly higher under Giuliani and Bloomberg than under Dinkins, as your own statistics show? Once again, I would like you to compare the crime in Dinkin's last full year with Giuliani's first full year.

Finally: was, or was not, Dinkins an incompetent in many ways? As I stated above, did he not let a riot run in Crown Heights unabated for three days? Did he not let the "demonstrators" run free in front of the Korean Green Grocer on Church Ave for weeks, with the proprietor's life being threatened (even the NY Times couldn't tolerate this situation, and told him to do something about it). Did he not run to the side of the mother of a vicious drug dealer (Jose "Kiko" Garcia), assuming that he had been wrongly killed by a police officer (Walsh) when a tape of the struggle clearly revealed that it was Walsh whose life was in danger (he radioed for help)? Dinkins didn't even wait for the tape to be released: he assumed that the police officer had murdered Garcia. Did this same incompetent mayor, however, not find the time (he was busy playing tennis) to comfort the parents of tourists from Utah whose son was killed in a midtown subway station, trying to intercede in a mugging?

OK, you can go back to trying to playing the race card.

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 5:39 PM

Of course leadership can make the difference.

Mayor Dinkins lead NYC to a record hiring of law enforcement personnel with money that he requested from the fed's under the Safe Streets program. I was one of those hired. This had a direct correlation to the decrease in crime, in addition to some of the social factors mentioned by previous posters(population age shift, etc.) When my co-workers picketed, I use that term lightly, in front of city hall, Dinkins showed the utmost restraint and respect for their civil liberties. He told his Commissioner not to mete out discipline for wrongdoing during the demonstration. Dinkins showed much of the same restraint when dealing with the public. Guiliani, on the other hand, who gave us the worse contracts ever, big fat zero's, would have called in the national guard if his dominions revolted against him. He had every officer working doubles during the Republican National Convention to squash anticipated disturbances by "dissenters." Dinkins appointed Lee Brown as Commissioner, under whom Ray Kelly worked. Brown instituted the Community Policing program and instituted the bottom up theory which tackled quality of life issues starting with the squeegee men at the bottom. Brown resigned for personal reasons and was replaced by Kelly who continued and improved upon the intiatives started by Brown.

The Uniform Crime Report UCR)actually has crime topping out under Guiliani. Although I did not like him personally, he continued the downward trend in crime by first handpicking William Bratton as his Commissioner. This was a smart move. Bratton was known as a boy wonder in the law enforcement community and he didn't disappoint by continuing to add programs which helped in the reduction of crime, the most famous of which was CompStat. The problem was that Bratton was not a yes man and often butted heads with Rudy, so he left. And then Guiliani appointed that buffoon Kerik. Not good leadership on his part.

Where Dinkins was sometimes too passive, Guiliani was clearly too aggressive. Bloomberg's style is the perfect fit for this city and he was smart enough to get Kelly back.

As someone who has literally put my life on the line for the people of this city, I'd rather do it under Bloomberg. If I had to do it again under either Dinkins or Guiliani, I'd choose Dinkins. Having the support of the community counts for a lot, during the course of your tour. It just wasn't there under Guiliani.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 7:02 PM

Brad Lander is such a hypocrite. He used non-union labor to build his affordable housing with the Fifth Avenue Committee. He's the one taking advantage of his fellow New Yorkers.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 7:58 PM

Denton and 7.02 PM;

You are moving into the theater of the absurd. Yeah, I really believe that the Crown Heights affair was a police conspiracy to embarass Dinkins. According to 7.02 PM, Dinkins was a bigger supporter of the police. Which is it? In any case, pass the Kool-Aid and I'll drink to that.

7.02PM: a special word for you. You are not a police officer, though I have to give you credit for trying to come off as one. A few tip-off's:

Giuliani fired Bratton, he didn't resign. As a member of the force, I assume you would remember that. Also, the reason he fired him was that Bratton was building up an incredible PR machine for himself. If you recall (as a police officer, of course) you would have remembered the issue: Bratton had a PR staff of 27 people reporting directly to him, larger than the White House staff. He even went and hired John Miller, the famous crime reporter, to be his spokesman. Bratton eas not liked by many folks on the force for this reason.

Moreover, after Bratton left, the commissioner that Giuliani hired was Howard Safir, not Kerik. Moreover, Safir served for a much longer term (5-6 years)than Kerik (one year). Kerik was brought on as commissioner in the last year of the Giuliani administration as a "placeholder", since the administration was winding down.

As a member of the force, how could you forget this fact? Answer: because you haven't served on the force. Rather, you tried to silence the debate by invoking the authority of "one who has put his life on the line".

By the way, this statement was the biggest tip-off that you are not a police officer. I was raised in a neighborhood of many police, and they simply don't use that line in a conversation like this.

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 8:12 PM

I apologize in advance to the readers of this thread for the following boring details but this is being done solely for Benson's benefit.

You are absolutely correct that I am not a Police Officer. I am a retired police officer. Hired in January 88. Retired 3 years ago. In the time that I was on the job, we had three photo ID card changes. Retired on 3/4 disability for a LODI injury caused by and EDP. Decison made at Lefrak City. Carried a S&W .38 calibre for the first three years and then transitioned to 9mm. I still have my Lady Smith though. Carried the S&W 5946. They use to give you a coffee can for spent rounds with the .38. Shopped at Park's. They always have candy in the dish by the register. Nice people. Don't charge for mourning bands. Didn't mind transporting although many hate it especially in Manhattan, knew everybody there, Qualified bi-annualy at Rodman's neck, hated the long cheese line, installed barriers after 9/11 at entrance barriers, toilets located in trailer at the top of the stairs, booths too small for you to both pull down your pants and hold your duty rig up while you pee, (you think they would have fixed that,) kept my kid and husband's photo in my eight point hat, Indian head fell off of hatpiece when I dropped it and it was stepped on during a parade, United Insignia on bridge took car of it, never got a CD, hated cancelled PD's for OT because I'd have rather spent time with my kid, etc......

Any one can go online to get a chronological list of Commissioners. In my previous post, I gave a synopsis of my experience and did not list each and every Commissioner. Most MOS even those who were on the job at the time, would not be able to give you a chronological list of all of the Commissioners under whom they served. Living around MOS, officers, police - not cops - doesn't make you one. Most of your friends have probably never literally put their lives on the line. A line constantly used by the union BTW.

You Benson are probably a wannabe. You are facinated by police culture and although you may have taken the exam and passed you were more than likely disqualified.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 9:58 PM

7.02 PM/ 9.58 PM;

You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper in a hole.

Here is what you wrote at 7.02 PM:

"Mayor Dinkins lead NYC to a record hiring of law enforcement personnel with money that he requested from the fed's under the Safe Streets program. I was one of those hired.".

Here is what you wrote at 9.58 PM: "Hired in January 88. Retired 3 years ago."

Er, excuse me, BULLSHIT ARTIST, but in 1988, Edward I. Koch was the mayor of the city, and as such, Mayor Dinkin's "Safe Streets" program was not yet instituted, the progrsam under which you claime to be hired.

Please quit the bullshit. I can appreciate that you like Dinkins, and don't like Giuliani. Just state the real reasons why, and please don't bullshit us any more.

Thank you

Benson

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 10:17 PM

This is once again for your benefit Benson and I will not go any further than this. I thought that I came on under Dinkins but I hate to admit that you are correct. You googled it to confirm that it was Koch. I like you just did not remember. Please ask any of your "cop friends" about transporting to 100 Center Street and also ask them what a "special" is and the female area midnight tour CO's. Only they would know. I know what I did for a living and so do you. Ask them please and post the results. Either you won't ask them or you won't post the truth.

Posted by: guest at April 11, 2008 11:59 PM

Benson?

Posted by: guest at April 14, 2008 3:18 PM