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April 2, 2008
Brooklyn Prices Drop It Like It's Not Hot
OK, we're gonna try this post again...The average sales price of nearly every type of property in Brooklyn has dropped over the past three months, some in the double digits, according to The Corcoran Group's most recent report, which tracks deals made by the firm; overall, both average and median prices fell 2% year-over-year. "There's been a definite pullback in the marketplace," said Brooklyn Regional VP Frank Percesepe. Single-family townhouses fared the worst, dropping between the first quarter last year and the first quarter of this year from an average sales price of $1,798,000 to $1,390,000, a 23 percent decrease. (By comparison, multifamilies fell 10%.) The average price of a two-bedroom fell 3 percent, from $611,000 to $591,000. The one bright spot? Studios rose from an average price of $272,000 to $350,00. On the larger end of the market, three-bedroom co-ops fared much better than their condo brethren, rising 12% versus a decline of 5%. Percesepe said sales closed during the first quarter reflect economic difficulties that started to set in last November, and the Bear Stearns collapse could affect next quarter. But he said attendance at open houses was up last week, only the buyers are different than during Brooklyn's peak boom era. "There's fewer investors, more people buying for their own homes."
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link please
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:00 AM
OMG, someone go to The What's bunker and wake him up NOW!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:03 AM
Like anything else, it's all psychology. So let's get real. Supply and demand is the real thing.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:03 AM
how many actual single-family are sold in brooklyn vs. 2-families? 2-families are so much more common in brownstone brooklyn it seems odd we have no specific reference to it, either way.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at April 2, 2008 10:04 AM
Tighter lending standards + layoffs in the financial services industry + higher inventory = lower prices. Manhattan condos may hold up because foreign investors are taking advantage of the weak dollar. But Brooklyn is not on their radar.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:05 AM
23% down is a big drop
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:15 AM
Used to be that errors on Brownstoner (in this case the confusion of absolute $k prices now shown versus the same numbers expressed as $/SF shown initially) were admitted to and corrected via strike-throughs and revised text, without deleting any comments. The new policy strikes me a a bit "1984".
Posted by: johnife at April 2, 2008 10:17 AM
@10:17 must be the south bend bureau reporting on this one....standards are more lax out there.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:21 AM
I suspect on the 3 bedroom condo/coop falls that 3 bedroom condos are still more expensive than a 3 bedroom coop...this compares apples to oranges.
I agree with Jimmy Legs, most Brooklyn properties are not single-family townhouses and the fact that multifamilies fell only 10% (insignificant in and of itself as that would represent a typical offer discount) is because of the renatl unit income being so attractive to the homebuyer.
Yes, lets see the link
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 10:24 AM
Calling all Corco brokers: Please, please send me links to one-family townhouses for $1.39MM in nice 'hoods.
I'm not believing this... maybe for South Slope, Clinton Hill, or Bed-Stuy, etc.
Show me some nice Fort Greene or PSlope action for that price please.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:25 AM
I disagree about condos vs co-ops only bcs I'm looking. 3 bedroom co-ops tend to have a separate dining room, maids rooms, hallways, weird half baths. Condos are more open plan living/dining/kitchen with 3 bed and 2 bath. Prices vary a LOT by neighborhood, but the co-ops we're seeing (and preferring) are way more than the condos -- isn't that always the way. I suspect bcs there are so few 3 bedroom co-ops and so many condos.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:28 AM
sigh, give me MEDIAN data, or give me death.
With the dataset comprised of only Corco sales, one big-ass sale is going to skew the average.
Not saying it ain't true, just give us better facts.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:29 AM
I think prices may be leveling off, BUT I suspect this has a lot to do with corcoran getting into the bed-stuy and other lower, priced markets. I mean if they're looking at their sales vs their sales, they're going to take a hit when they start throwing some 600k crown heights shells in there.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:31 AM
As noted in previous comments, this evidence is little more than anecdotal. A major problem in Corcoran's analysis is that it is vulnerable to composition effects: a change in the mix of homes sold (e.g., by quality, or neighborhood) can drastically affect the results. One or a few blockbuster sales of Brooklyn Heights mansions, for instance, can result in an unusual rise in "home prices," or offset an otherwise much larger decline. The same can happen if a slowing housing market manifests itself by a disproportionate decline in sales in less expensive neighborhoods.
Nationwide, the OFHEO and S&P/Case-Shiller indices try to correct for composition bias by looking at "repeat sales," i.e., re-sales of the same units. That said, anecdotal evidence has 'some' value, and this report shows that any claim that the New York (or Brooklyn) housing market is alive and well is likely to be greatly exhaggerated.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:34 AM
I believe the market in New York is not as healthy as perhaps 2002-2006, but still healthier than it was pre-2001.
A 10% drop (if that really is the case) is great in my opinion. I've heard people who never seemed to consider buying a house start talking about it now. The precise kinds of creative people who made a lot of these neighborhoods interesting in the first place.
As long as things don't spiral too far (which I don't think they will) this levelling off could be a real boost of energy and fresh blood into many of these already terrific Brooklyn neighborhoods. The one thing that IS different now than pre 2000 is that Brooklyn has, in many ways become the center for culture...art, music and the avant garde in this city.
The economy seems to be stabilizing just a little bit, so it's very possible that before things get too bad here, we'll be on our way to a moderate recovery. Building has slowed tremendously, so any jolt to the market could bring inventory levels down to even more historic lows pretty quickly.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:45 AM
John,
Not trying to hide anything. It would have been one giant strike-through. Here's the original for your reading pleasure:
The average sales price of nearly every type of property in Brooklyn has dropped over the past three months, some in the double digits, according to The Corcoran Group's most recent report, which tracks deals made by the firm. In some categories, that could mean only a handful of sales located disproportionately in certain neighborhoods. So while the figures aren't Bible, Brooklyn Regional VP Frank Percesepe said, "There's been a definite pullback in the marketplace." Single-family townhouses fared the worst, steadily dropping between the first quarter last year, at $1,798 per square foot (psf), and the close of this past quarter, to $1,390 psf, a 23 percent decrease. Two-bedrooms also saw a steady decrease of 3 percent, to $591 psf. Average sales price per square foot in most categories increased between early last year and January, then suddenly plummeted — multi-family townhouses the worst, a 25 percent drop, to $1,445 psf. On the other hand, Condo and Co-op studios, and three-bedrooms, all saw an increase in value — co-op studios 17 percent to $310 psf, condo studios 29 percent to $549 psf, and three-bedroom condos 12 percent to $1,010 psf. Percesepe said sales closed during the first quarter reflect economic difficulties that started to set in last November, and the Bear Stearns collapse could affect next quarter. But he said attendance at open houses was up last week, only the buyers are different than during Brooklyn's peak boom era. "There's fewer investors, more people buying for their own homes."
Posted by: brownstoner at April 2, 2008 10:46 AM
Aren't Jan., Feb., and March usually slow sales months with low inventory? If that's the case now, isn't the data used for these figures somewhat suspect?
Posted by: Bob Marvin at April 2, 2008 10:51 AM
I'm quite happy to see the news about studios. It's actually quite amazing to me how much they have been appreciating. Not surprising, however.
You could buy a studio in prime Park Slope in 2000 for 70K or so. The same thing goes for 325-350K now.
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 10:54 AM
10:25 - here's a brownstone listing for less:
http://www.brownstonelistings.com/public/listingSingle.do?listing.listingID=724612
It is across the street from me on a lovely block (1st st btw hoyt and bond - two blocks fromm subway, two blocks from carroll park, dead end street so quiet and great for kids to play on). obviously needs work aesthetically, but think all mechanicals are updated since it was recently renovated. I've been telling friends they should offer $950,000 - then maybe they can get it for $999,000 and not pay mansion tax. It's listed with an obscure agent, so no one comes across it and I think there has been very little action on it. And I can't get any friends of mine to jump on it...
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 10:57 AM
10:28...then the Brooklyn coop/condo market is a completely different animal from manhattan, where I lived since 1994. Over there its pretty clear cut...the board approval process and the inability to sublet typically always made for a lower price vs. a comparable condo unit.
Recently, over the past 4 years or so, with the construction of A LOT MORE CONDOS, the condos are better layout, more modern amenities, more well though out closet space, etc, etc and OLDER condos are feeling that competition. I think that maybe the much smaller supply here in Brooklyn of both coops and condos, COMPARED TO THAT IN MANHATTAN, makes the market far less homogeneous.
Similarly, with the huge relative supply of brownstones and other 2-3 family units, the market is more easily compared for these type structures than it is in Manhattan where these type dwellings are not as common with the exception of Upper West Side Harlem
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 11:00 AM
BOB - they are comparing first quarter sales this year and last year.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:01 AM
It doesn't seem like single or multi-family homes in Park Slope have dropped significantly in price this spring market. Just curious how long you all think it will take for prices to come down 10% if not 23% as suggested by article? Neighbors bid 2.7 on a 3 mill dollar house in Park Slope and had offer rejected. Seemed like a reasonable bid to me, but seller obviously did not agree. Are buyers and sellers at a stand-off? How long can that continue?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:02 AM
Corcoran's numbers are skewed as they only go by the sales they are involved in. Sorry to bring this Corcoran's attention but they are not the only brokers in town.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:02 AM
How are the sales in 110 Livingston Street doing ? Heard that they still had about 40 units unsold...have they dropped prices ? Just curios..
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:17 AM
Just asking - are you sure Corcoran only uses their sales in their reports? The last one I looked at was for year end 2007 and specifically cited data collected by a third party consultant hired by Corcoran and said nothing about data being confined to Corcoran sales. Just a disclaimer - I'm not cheering the market down - Just need info since these reports would be worse than useless if they were single-broker data only.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:29 AM
Is anyone surprised?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:30 AM
What a sad and funny world, in which people get upset because the average price of a Brooklyn town house is still well over a million bucks. It is truly awful to contemplate, isn't it...a brownstone Brooklyn in which someone less rich than a hedge-fund manager could purchase a house? Rabble like teachers, firemen, and cops will start having ideas above their station! Scum like book editors, graphic designers, social workers and museum employees will begin to pant at the remote possibility that a few crumbs might fall their way! It is a full-fledged crisis, I tell you--a sickening crash into economic despondency!
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at April 2, 2008 11:32 AM
11:17, a friend of mine bought in 110 Livingston with the intention of living there (i.e., vs flipping), then decided to move to Oregon (go figure - she bought in the Clocktower years ago, so she must know what she's doing!) and had no problem whatsoever selling it within days of it going on the market. Not sure how many unsold units are left, but my friend's story seems there's still some interest. The building is beautiful, but I personally don't like the location (very busy, stark corner).
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 11:32 AM
Agreed, Brenda.
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 11:37 AM
Here's an article about the state of the Manhattan market:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/nyregion/02prices.html?hp
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 11:42 AM
Brooklyn is kind of unappealing when viewed from above isn't it? It could be silver roof paint land.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:43 AM
11:43, I'm sad to say I had that same thought. Perhaps we need a giant glass canopy like the one added to the BAM to spruce it up. It can tilt down to the East River - of course some might fear the rising water levels would submerge Staten Island (and of course some others might not fear that).
(Hi Jerri)
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 11:53 AM
Oh are we allowed to say hi to each other, Biff?
I'm afraid I might get reamed from the anonymous guests for not talking strictly about real estate.
And I don't mean reamed in the good way...
;-)
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 12:01 PM
behave you two!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 12:04 PM
You mean there's a bad way to be reamed?
At the risk of being accused of being sneaky brokers (redundant?) trying to sabotage blogs with banal conversation thereby taking focus off the sagging real estate market, we should keep the friendly banter to a minimum.
(shout out to daveinbedstuy and all my other bold text peeps)
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 12:12 PM
argh. here we go again with these 3.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:14 PM
you were right jerri
besides guest 12:14, don't you think this topic is already beat to death??
you're not invited to Augie's or Excelsior
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 12:16 PM
No surprise the prices have been cut on the 3BR new condos and newly renovated "browndos". They are a good idea and right for the family-oriented Brooklyn market, but are SO overpriced. The developers think they're selling a solid gold condo just because it has an extra closet they can call a bedroom. The older coops are better layout if you're looking for a 3BR unit. Or of course you can just get a house. I'm sure the prices on the 3 BR condos over the last couple years helped many people decide to go ahead and get a house instead. That was the case with us.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:20 PM
I think real estate in general is beaten to death at this point, to be perfectly frank.
I now have my eyes focussed on more interesting things like finding that perfect vintage danish modern side table at Brooklyn Flea this weekend!
That and the garden, which is really starting to come alive.
Talking about every little price drop or price increase is making my head hurt. I really just don't care anymore. I'm not leaving Brooklyn any time soon.
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 12:21 PM
"Aren't Jan., Feb., and March usually slow sales months with low inventory? If that's the case now, isn't the data used for these figures somewhat suspect?"
Bob Marvin, in addition to 11:01's explanation, last time I was in the market (selling and buying), I was told by a Corcoran broker that January 1 to Memorial Day is the hot season for selling; obviously highly correlated with Wall Street bonus season. Given the bonuses, credit crunch, blah blah blan this year, the lower sales, at least in the higher end market, make sense.
I think the topic is now officially beaten to death. I'll have a double Jack and Diet Coke please!
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 12:23 PM
Interesting - Brooklyn declining with Manhattan still increasing.
Wonder if there is a potential arbitrage movement - selling in Manhattan and upgrading seriously in Brooklyn.
Manhattan dollars now go much farther in Brooklyn.
I am looking at selling my Manhattan co-op and buying 2 brownstones in cash.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:29 PM
10:28- I'm looking to and I do not see a large disparity b/n 3brm Co-ops and condos- but to tell the truth- I rarely see true 3 bedroom co-ops (mostly floor through of a brownstone with the front turned into a room). The 3 bdrm Condos are more plentiful with new construction- but I the closing costs of condos- especially new ones should be taken into account- which I think is a factor for the disparity between co-op appreciate and condo depreciation. Also- lots of sponsors are slashing prices to get people in their buildings. I don't think individual co-op owners are under ths same sort of pressure to sell- so they slash prices less often and by smaller amounts.
Posted by: panda10 at April 2, 2008 12:31 PM
Ok, this is getting too weird now Biff.
MY drink of choice is a jack and coke too!!!
Hold the diet though. I'm pretty slim. I can handle the extra calories...
Just bought a bottle of J.D. last night in fact so I can have one at home every now and then too.
Too bad you don't come to the Slope...
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 12:31 PM
When I sold my 3-bdrm P.S. coop last year, I was afraid that the condos starting to come on the market at similar prices would be a new form of fierce competition. Then I went and looked at a few. And was relieved. Lousy, ugly apartments. Sure, some would prefer all the newness of them - but that was a different buyer than the one looking for a charming brownstone apartment on a beautiful street. Apples and oranges. Selling was no problem. And, as far as I can tell, for nice stuff in nice neighborhoods, places may take longer to sell, but prices are up or level.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:33 PM
jerri...it was I who said I don't come to the Slope...i think Biff was willing to go
12:29...this is a no brainer that i've been harping on incessantly for ages...the number of people in manhattan that can sell a one bedroom or 2 bedroom condo and come to Brooklyn and buy really nice brownstones is astounding...as more people realize that the demand will exceed the supply,,,prices stabilize and then start going up again
A lot of the brooklynians have a hard time grasping the economics of this trade. However, the Manhattanites will only move to where the train is very convenient to their daily commute back.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 12:37 PM
12:31, the well laid out 3BR coops in question are in the large prewar buildings, those are the ones with separate formal DR, and a foyer, etc. They aren't found in every area of Brooklyn. The ones in brownstone buildings are the narrow ones you speak of, and those are also the ones being made into condos/browndos.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:38 PM
daveinbedstuy, thanks for clarifying. you're a solid wing man after all!
jerri, what can I tell you? The Nutrasweet gives me an added buzz. you, the Brooklyn Flea, some JD (and let's not forget the new Babeland)...what more could I possibly ask for?
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 12:39 PM
Biff, Dave and Jeri .. please shut the f up and take your narsty flirting offline.
Brenda from Flatbush, 11:32am, please eat a large steamy pile of dog poo for your class warrior foolishness.
Have a nice day!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:57 PM
Wow, a (mostly) substantive discussion and no "bitter renter" name-calling. Now I remember why I started reading this thing in the first place. Not sure I care what Biff's drinking though. Dont you guys have email or something?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 12:58 PM
Brownstoner, I'd keep some security on the fleamarket men's room if I were you. Know what I'm sayin?
Posted by: rh at April 2, 2008 12:59 PM
Look for me by the Repop booth, Biff.
Those guys are the best.
And kinda cute!
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 12:59 PM
"besides guest 12:14, don't you think this topic is already beat to death??"
No, but let's just say that I would not be unhappy if such a fate were to befall you three.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:03 PM
guest at 12:57...you moron...you didn't even understand what she was saying
Mr B should install some kind of IQ screening...
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 1:04 PM
Any lesbians out there that want to flirt on a blog dedicated to real estate?
I'm waiting ...
Also, anyone want to describe in detail their latest bowl movement?
etc., etc., etc.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:06 PM
You know what...if you don't want to read our posts, skip it and and go onto the next one like most people who have all their chromosomes are able to do.
Biff, Dave and I are some of the only people trying to have actual conversations here as well about the topics at hand. Sometimes the topics get played out and we try to have a little fun. Ever heard of fun, 12:57?
I'll also include Montrose Morris, Bob Marvin, Rehab, and a few others I'm forgetting...
How is telling us to eff off and for someone to eat sh*t more worthwhile to this thread than saying I like a jack and coke every once in a while.
Hypocrite, much??
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 1:06 PM
jerri, I love your spunk (I can't wait for the responses to that one)! I don't see anything wrong with trying to make some friends, say hello and make this place just a little bit warmer and more fun. And it's not like we don't contribute actual solid real estate related point as well (IMO). I also love those who complain about us being off topic without contributing anything else themselves.
But 12:58, you're right. Jerri, drop me a line at iheartjerri@mailufo.com. I'll help you carry your perfect vintage danish modern side table back to your place, where we can sip JD and Cokes and watch Manufacturing Consent.
xox
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 1:13 PM
I'm not gunna touch that one with a ten foot pole...
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 1:19 PM
:-)
In case we get banished by the haters, or if you're bored, shoot me an email.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 1:27 PM
GayinBedstuy:
This isn't inflammatory class warfare rhetoric?
"It is truly awful to contemplate, isn't it...a brownstone Brooklyn in which someone less rich than a hedge-fund manager could purchase a house? Rabble like teachers, firemen, and cops will start having ideas above their station!"
27% of Park Slope is Hispanic. Look at median household income on PropertyShark. This idea of the rich "invading" is pure folly and class warfare.
Now back to my caviar.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:31 PM
50 posts by the same 3?
Oh and thanks for letting me know when the topic is played out or tired.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:34 PM
I don't know who Gayinbedstuy is but 1:31, and i assume you are 12:57 as well and are just too stupid
Brenda was making a joke...she was being facetious...do you know what that means. Read it again.
you rant on about knowing something about inflammatory rhetoric and you're calling people you don't even know biggotted names??
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 1:40 PM
It is so stupid to compare "Condos" and "Coops" on design/layout or sale price.
1st of all Condos are relatively new (at least in terms of being available in large #s) and generally refer to new (or relatively new) construction.
Coops on the other hand can range from a cut-up gerry-rigged apartment in a rowhouse, to a luxurious pre-war elevator apartment, to even (a few) relatively newer post-war condo type apartments.
2nd with Coops you have to consider the underlying financing of the building/corporation and the resulting monthly (non-maintainance portion of the) maintainance, which can sometimes be high (and results in a lower "sale" price but an equivalent or higher "real" cost)
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:42 PM
Jeez, now Biff's signing "xxo" for Jeri. I'm going to go see if the What is ranting elswhere, much prefer that to this lovey dovey crap.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at April 2, 2008 1:47 PM
1:34 bravo! You're ready for Grade 1 math now. Oh, and thanks for the non-point.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 1:47 PM
Right 1:42...nothing is actually comparable, even on price per sq. ft. basis.....condo/coop....this street or that...kitchen/bath upgrades are never comparable, architectural details, bacyard or terraces....even thos properties 404 and 408 Stuyvesant Ave listed yeasterday, 2 limestones right next to each other are not comparable properties
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 1:47 PM
Gayinbedstuy, Rimm Champion & Hairy Yank,
jack your monkey not the thread.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:52 PM
Dave, while your retarded debate tactics might work in 7th grade (and on the campaign trail), they don't work when my actual statement is only 3 inches above your mis-characterization/gross exaggeration (and subsequent ironic reply to a point I never made).....
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 1:59 PM
not sure who you are and what you're talking about since you're just one of the many guests
campaign trail??? WTF does that refer to???
you've lost it
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:03 PM
if you are 1:42 you are an idiot...i was agreeing with you and supporting your case
i hope you're not on anyone's campaign committee...whatever that's all about
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:05 PM
is there a Link to this report somewhere?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:07 PM
Dave - just because you sign-in and get your posts in a darker font doesn't make your strawman arguments anymore valid or persuasive.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:08 PM
and your argument is?????
I'm tired of reading so many illogical, poorly written comments by people that can't connect one set of thoughts with another.
The statistics that came out yesterday as to the number of students who don't graduate high school make me believe that a lot of them are at home and posting here as guests; unable to or to lazy to sign in
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:13 PM
"Mortgage application volume tumbled 28.7 percent during the week ending March 28, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association's weekly survey." - Yahoo Finance News
Wow! 28.7% within one week! Thank God this won't affect Brooklyn brownstones. Oh wait...!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:18 PM
Sales have really slowed in Brooklyn Heights.
Maybe the edgier neighborhoods have more steam left.
Posted by: sam at April 2, 2008 2:22 PM
"and your argument is?????"
As stated at 1:42
You can not (generically) compare "Condos" vs "Coops" on design/layout or sale price.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:22 PM
Gayinbedstuy, why dont you finish a complete comment before hitting the post button? This isnt Instant Message you know.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:25 PM
Everyone is teasing the little tiny drops in prices so far. This is just a snapshot. Keep the camera rolling. The same teasing probably took place at the beginning of the run-up circa 1995, "Hee hee...you're bragging that your property value went up only 5%?".
The question is not where we are but where we are going. At the current rate, Brooklyn brownstone, condo and coop prices are in for some serious hemorrhaging.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:27 PM
1:42 and 2:22...i don't know what your mental block is... I told you above that I was agreeing with you and supporting your argument
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:28 PM
Brooklynnative, don't let the door hit you in the @ss on your way out.
sam, I agree it seems sales have slowed in BH, but the flipside is virtually nothing is going up for sale. Check for places with 3+ bedrooms and 2+ baths and there's almost nothing (for the past couple of years). Family apts are in high demand there. It's not that people aren't buying, it's that people are selling but holding steady for now.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 2:32 PM
2:25...what's your ethnic background??? If you're going to start calling people names like a third grader you'll lose because I know more words than you do
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:32 PM
and you know how to spell them too, dave, unlike 2:25.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 2:34 PM
It's that people AREN'T selling in BH...oops.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 2:34 PM
Ok Dave then I misinterpreted your 1:47 comment - it sure sounded sarcastic to me - and if it wasnt then - I am sorry for calling your tactics retarded and let me restate that you have taken the point I made (at 1:42) and concurred with it to the point of a retarded conclusion.
of course different housing units can be compared, of course price per sq ft has some meaning and use, of course units on the same street tell you something about the relative value of other housing.
My point is that the condo v. coop price debate (and statistics) on a macro scale is useless.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:36 PM
We knew what you meant, Biff.
Everyone is entitled to a mistake every ONCE in a while...
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 2:38 PM
and yet you still call it a retarded conclusion despite admitting you were wrong but with no apology
Given that, I have no problem launching into a vitriolic response that should not be on this post...You are one low-life person...a dick head if male, a "B" if female
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:42 PM
Agreed, Biff & Sam. I've looking for a decent size 2 bedroom in BH since New Year and it's been frusterating. Things are coming on in such slow drips.
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 2:42 PM
Did see an apartment at 105 Montague this weekend, though, that was beautiful. A little rich for my blood by gave me hope of good things to come.
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 2:45 PM
Biff, Sam & Fawn...I've been searching in BH for a colleague as well and its been very frustrating
I t reminds me of Old Town in Chicago.....things just don't turn over very often...upper east side limestones....the values may be different but the scenario is still the same
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 2:46 PM
dave, don't waste your time with that one, you're above him/her.
fawn, so true, right? out of interest, I check Natefind and Streeteasy daily just to see what's around and there is NOTHING. I don't know how Corcoran, BHS et. al. survive with big offices on Montague. I guess they do lots of rentals and the surrounding areas. Are you just looking in the BH?
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 2:46 PM
Fawn, I don't go to the open houses but I did see it on Corcoran. It looks very nice and I love the location. Central BH, easy walk to DUMBO, CH, subways, etc. Price per sf seems slightly high, but you avoid the mansion tax as it's under $1MM. I would think it could be negotiated down, but we'll see. Also the maint is a bit high for the area too (unless you're in one of the few high rises).
dave, it's funny. So many trash BH here yet it's near impossible to find an available place to buy!! let me know during your search if you have questions on the locations/prices, etc. and I'll try to help.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 2:54 PM
Yes Dave - saying "nothing is comparable" is retarded - and no matter what type of person I am - it doesnt change the fallacy of your point.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 2:55 PM
BH and Cobble Hill. (I've read the great neighborhood debates, so don't want to stir the pot and list reasons!) My husband and I have been hitting up open houses for a few months now but anything that has really peaked our interest has gone in a flash. Funny enough, I was reading the NY Mag website this week and decided to see how their RE listings are. Searching under BH and CH, all the Corcoran listings are from April 2007. Clearly not useful in practical terms, but it was interesting to see how many more options there were one year back!
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 2:57 PM
I saw a bunch of open houses this past sunday in BH. There is stuff for sale.
If you want a mansion on Columbia Heights, then you will need to wait, but there are a good number of apartments available at the moment. More all the time since nothing is selling.
Posted by: sam at April 2, 2008 3:01 PM
Biff, we're working with a broker who said the same thing... I'll keep my eye on it. There are a few two bedrooms on the market for around the same price (66 Orange and 61 Pierrepont we saw)-- and Montague was so much nicer. Makes me wonder if it's the agents who are encouraging the prices or sellers pushing them?
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 3:03 PM
"2:25...what's your ethnic background??? If you're going to start calling people names like a third grader you'll lose because I know more words than you do"
Gayinbedstuy,what does ethnic backround have to do with anything. do you wanna toss some racist slurs around?
Did you know 20 years ago you would be called a graveinbedstuy?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 3:07 PM
I went to an open house on Pierrepont this weekend. Lowered to 995k. It was a nice place, but needed some floorplan help. I was surprised by a) how many people were there and b) how many seemed to really be considering how they would pay 1mm for a 2 bed, 1 bath place and THEN rearrange all the rooms!
It was nice and big and sunny, but... too much work for me.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 3:08 PM
Sam, go on Streeteasy. Maybe it doesn't capture everything, but a search I just did shows 6 listings for between $800,000 and $1,750,000 with at least 2 bedrooms with at least 2 bathrooms. Four of the six are actually in Cobble Hill! One of the six is the one Fawn mentioned above and the last is indeed a 3 bed 2 bath on Pineapple for $1.375MM. These are the kinds of places I was talking about; not mansions on Columbia Heights...
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 3:10 PM
Sam, We made the rounds too, but didn't see anything compelling. Some things are overpriced (and I'm a realist about BH prices) and others had big issues. Did you see either of the 111 Hicks St apartments? I was tempted out of curosity-- one was basically a bowling alley (with a recording studio in the bedroom) and the other looked like my office.
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 3:16 PM
3:08, thanks for the story...seems there still is interest in BH for the few available places.
Fawn, I know (and like) both buildings you mentioned pretty well. I think the agents are more the ones setting the prices, but then again, people have been paying close or above ask for awhile now. Sure that might be changing, but the stories here show there are still lots of interested buyers out there. Best of luck to you and your husband on your search. It's frustrating if you're set on BH (and CH). It took me a year to find something (I was also looking in PS but had not luck). If I can help at all, let me know.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 3:17 PM
We went to the Pierrepont one too. Floorplan issues AND the bedrooms and dining room face Love Lane, and the building backs on to the garage. The broker was quick to point out the view would be blocked, but the whole place is going to be a construction site. No thanks!
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 3:18 PM
Sorry, view will not be blocked on the Pierrepont apt.
Posted by: fawn at April 2, 2008 3:19 PM
I never used to much care for Brooklyn Heights...
Until you came into my life, Biff.
Will you be the Cher to my Nicolas Cage?
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 3:23 PM
3:07...times change but apparently you don't..still calling people names and a bigoted racist yourself i see
got anything at all to add to the real estate discussion???
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 3:26 PM
And I never cared for the Brooklyn Flea until I met you, Jerri. But can I please be Nicolas and you be Cher?
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 3:26 PM
All you rich douche bags stop hijacking the thread!!! No one cares about your house hunt in BH or CH! Go to a chat room or simply email each other you effing bastards!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 3:27 PM
Shut it, 3:27.
Oh wait...I can't see your post...it's TOO FADED!!!! You don't exist!
Biff...I don't mind being Cher at all. She's dreamy.
Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves...
The new Brooklyn motto!
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 3:32 PM
3:27, I'm sorry. I guess I misread the topic. I thought it was about the prices of, and demand for Brooklyn housing, including single-family townhouses and two bedroom apts., etc. Oh wait, it was. I guess perhaps YOU should be the one to leave. But thanks for the worthless post.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 3:33 PM
Jerri, I can't wait to see you in your 1986 Oscars outfit! I Got You, Babe! Let's hope Chastity is nowhere to be found.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 3:37 PM
Gayinbedstuy, I'm no racist I dont care about your ethnicity. Isnt it man yogurt time or something?
You 3 (_O_)'s are something else.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 3:42 PM
been listening to this crap from that guest..."man yogurt" ??? you apparently know something about that yet you're calling him gay...you obviously can't separate racist from bigot...about the same thing...get off the site
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 3:45 PM
"man yogurt time" what the hell is that.... you're apparently more well versed in gay parlance than I am
unless you have something to contribute to the real estate discussion, get ready for your evening in Chelsea!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 3:47 PM
3:42, troll much? At least try to be humorous if you're going to spew homophobic and racist epithets. You're just a bore.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 3:48 PM
Do they sell "man yogurt" at that new Yogo Monster in PS?
I'm confused.
And btw, Homophobes are Gay.
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 3:52 PM
Woopsie I meant "mango" yogurt. Get your dutty minds out the gutter and stop drooling.
Hey I got a swell idea let's talk Bklyn real estate?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 4:02 PM
POP!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 4:06 PM
Hey Biff, Jerri et al. How is Cher or Oscars "about the prices of, and demand for Brooklyn housing, including single-family townhouses and two bedroom apts., etc."??? Please show some self respect and stop perpetrating gay stereotype. You are making us look bad.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 4:26 PM
4:26...it was some other idiot...it wasn't Jerri & Biff who started the gay name calling...
Jerri and Biff are perfectly respectable qualified commenters
in love too, perhaps!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 4:41 PM
4:26, why don't you open your eyes and notice the numerous real estate-related posts we've had in this and other blogs today? Sorry if the stick up your ass prevents you from being able to enjoy some harmless banter. If you had any self-respect you would worry about posters like 3:42/4:02.
Lighten up.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 4:42 PM
Did a gay dude just use the expression "stick up your ass"?!
This thread has jumped the shark baby!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 4:44 PM
Precisely, Dave.
4:26, we're calling out the homophobes (so to speak). The reference to Cher by Jerri was a very humorous link to to filming of Moonstruck in Brooklyn Heights, which we were all discussing - hence the Cher/Nicolas Cage mention. It was independent of, and not a reaction to the homophobic jerk.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 4:46 PM
4:42 guest, a homophone is a word that is pronounced the same as another word but differs in meaning. Would you like to try that once more?
4:44, actually, no.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 4:49 PM
My mom likes Cher and she's not gay.
Stereotypes be gone!!!
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 4:50 PM
Mr B. just posted a story about 4 minutes ago above ..."What Manhattan Prices Buy In Brooklyn"
This is the whole crux of my argument against DRAMATICALLY falling prices here.....there's support out there from people like myself who want to buy a lot more space for far less money with architectural detail, a yard, neighbors that you speak to, etc,etc,etc
Yes prices are going to come off from these highs but there's far more value here than across the river.
And before anyone starts to talk about recession, etc you better know your facts. Look at what interest rates were in 1978-1983 and then again in 1990-1992. As well, look up the definition of recession before you go on a rant about the economy.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 4:50 PM
Shucks! I guess break time is over huh spooj breath?
Just joking Gay America but those 3 deserve it. Sorry.
The other gay guy is not refering to name calling. It's you 3 and your occasional;
"the market is blah, blah, blah, then hey let's meet at Auggies, how was your night, my butt hurts" and all that aother jazz you jokers are posting. Same crap and agenda as yesterday. chill out already.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 4:57 PM
I know this is going to be difficult for your pea-sized brain to comprehend, 4:57, but your comment is THE most offensive one on this thread.
Far worse than anything any of the out of the closet guys have said on here.
You sure do pay us a lot of attention though. Most people who would be so offended would just ignore it.
You're a little curious, aren't you?
Maybe a little more than curious?
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 5:01 PM
You don't have to be gay to like Cher. The woman is like a national historic landmark. And she can actually act. a little.
But to comment about her clothes? Yes, pretty much you have to be gay.
Posted by: sam at April 2, 2008 5:03 PM
"spooj breath"? hard to respond to such a witty, well-thought out insult.
Sam, I'm sure there were lots of hetero men drooling over Cher in the outfit referenced above!
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 5:06 PM
There's nothing wrong with commenting or caring about clothes, 5:03. Cher or no Cher.
More straight men (and women for that matter) should take it into consideration a little more often.
Walking down 7th Avenue sometimes makes me wonder whether I'm trapped in a bad episode of Designing Women.
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 5:07 PM
I believe it's spooge.
In case you decide to use that one again, 4:57.
I know it's going to tempt you...
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 5:08 PM
"spooge" noted. Eww I guess you know best.
Oh wait is that a comment a min now? You sent 2 towards me in less than 5 mins, and still typing away.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 5:22 PM
"Eww"? Isn't kindergarten dismissed for the day.
5:22 doth protest too much.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 5:33 PM
Stiff Champion, 4:49 said:
"4:42 guest, a homophone is a word that is pronounced the same as another word but differs in meaning. Would you like to try that once more?"
Um, yes, I know ... that's why in response to the "man yogurt time" post I wrote:
"Homophones love gay yogurt."
Think about it, you pseudo-intellectual thread-stealing pantywaist.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gay
Yes! Nailed it! Zing!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 5:43 PM
5:43, did it really just take you an hour to formulate a response? And a bad one at that?I wonder how many people helped you. And you STILL are not funny. If that's you nailing it, I would hate to see you missing it! But thanks for the stiff reference. At least you got one thing straight, so to speak.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 5:55 PM
Are you on acid, 5:43?
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 5:55 PM
No wonder there's such a mess with variable rate mortgages and the stupid people that got themselves into them!!!!
If anyone can explain the logic in the 5:43 post please go ahead
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 5:59 PM
If you have to congratulate yourself, 5:43, you are a sad sack of crotch fruit.
Are you one of those "str8" boys on craigslist looking for a quickie cause your "girlfriend" can't satisfy you?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:02 PM
As Jennifer Saunders playing the role of Eddie in Absolutely Fabulous once said in a terrific episode:
"JUST TAX THE STUPID PEOPLE!!!"
You had to see it...
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 6:02 PM
Don't any of you people have jobs? Or lives?
I should be so lucky to spend all day trading posts on a blog.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:03 PM
i don't
i retired myself from my firm in September. Done enough travelling and all the work on my brownstone is finished so I will be joining another firm in a few weeks. Hence, sadly, for me and all of you, I will not able to respond endlessly all day long while watching CNBC or in between renovation projects
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 2, 2008 6:06 PM
6:03, we're just really good at multi-tasking.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 6:07 PM
hairy yank, your cue? Come to the stage.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:11 PM
I have no life or job.
I've been sitting in the Brooklyn Public Library every day this week commenting on Brownstoner.
I sleep under the BQE.
And eat only yogurt.
But I prefer the tranny yogurt, myself.
Posted by: jerri blank at April 2, 2008 6:13 PM
Dave, it will be a sad day when you're no longer here. As for your comment on 5:43, I have to admit I read it more than once to see if I could make sense of it and what I was missing. I didn't think it was possible a moron would be congratulating him/herself for being such an idiot, but clearly I was wrong.
Careful Jerri, 5:43 probably thinks "tranny yogurt" is a homonym.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 6:19 PM
I loooove the gays, they are so entertaining!
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:23 PM
Question.
Steel Cage Match.
The What vs. The Three Flaming Amigos.
Who wins and why?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:25 PM
oy. I'm sick of these Biff/Jerri et al posts too
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 6:28 PM
The Who? I think the individual you just referenced already lost the Loser Leaves Town (and moves to Lodi) Match. I guess we win.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 2, 2008 6:28 PM
The 3 Amigas win because there are lots of other gay people who post on this blog who support them and will jump into the ring to help defeat The tWhat and his bitter band of idiots and losers.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 7:04 PM
Who would have thought just days ago that we'd be longing for The What? At least he was (marginally) on topic.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 7:09 PM
seriously, 7:09.
Figures one is from Park Slope, the epicenter of self-indulgence and -congratulation.
Guys, a hint: No One Cares.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 7:57 PM
these three are worse than the spammer. brownstoner is going down the toilet.
on the RE front: keep talking yourself into denial folks. if you bought 3 years ago, you might be ok. if you just bought, you are screwed, equity-wise at least. if you are trying to buy now before prices "take off" again, you are truly the last fool. this market has nowhere to go but down. every indicator is pointing that way except the anecdotal views of the ones in denial. when you guys finally capitulate is when i will step in. not saying that's brownstones at 250, but it won't be 2br "browndos" at 1mn either.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 8:14 PM
May 1626,
The Dutch buy Manhattan for $24.
400 years later we're debating a 2% drop in prices over a 12 month period.
Gay or straight, I think we're all getting a little bit anal.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 8:15 PM
8:14: How long have you been a renter?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 9:41 PM
I bought a house in brooklyn after owning a co-op here. I mean, are people crazy? Lots of people "trade up" within brooklyn
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:04 PM
"Who would have thought just days ago that we'd be longing for The What? At least he was (marginally) on topic."
This Blog has jumped the shark. I don't feel like putting in any energy explaining about the upcoming depression. Yep, laugh if you want!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:45 PM
Oh and BTW! The Asshats have taken over. Yep, I will allow the use of the work "Asshats". Look at who post here and why. Biif, Dukie, Jerri, Brad, Buffy, Muffie and Booty Wanker. Just awful.
The What Vs Who? I say The What wins! Why you ask? He would bring that .50 cal mounted on his bunker! Game, Set and Match.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:53 PM
11:04: So you are selling to avoid further losses? If not, what is the point of your post at 8:14?
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:54 PM
2 posts in 10 minutes tWhat? Looks like you do have the energy. Loser.
Posted by: guest at April 2, 2008 11:59 PM
So tonight I'm gonna party like its 1999.
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 7:55 AM
"This Blog has jumped the shark. I don't feel like putting in any energy explaining about the upcoming depression."
Thanks tWhat, we appreciate that since nobody asked for your opinion in the first place.
"Who would have thought just days ago that we'd be longing for The What? At least he was (marginally) on topic."
So far tWhat you are 0 for 2 in staying on topic...
"The What Vs Who? I say The What wins! Why you ask? He would bring that .50 cal mounted on his bunker! Game, Set and Match."
To the guy who thinks the tWhat is sorta funndy, how is this even mildly entertaining?
Posted by: guest at April 3, 2008 8:35 AM
Guys, I am moving to Brooklyn in July. I have 2 kids 4th/6th grade and looking to buy in a good area. I can afford 850k and need a 3 bed. Any advice? I looked at the NOVO which has nice layout but I hear bad things and low occupation rate....thanks
Posted by: guest at April 9, 2008 10:16 AM
Guys, I am moving to Brooklyn in July. I have 2 kids 4th/6th grade and looking to buy in a good area. I can afford 850k and need a 3 bed. Any advice? I looked at the NOVO which has nice layout but I hear bad things and low occupation rate....thanks
Posted by: guest at April 9, 2008 10:30 AM
Guest, Take a look in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn for a family-friendly neighborhood with 3 bedroom houses which are around the $850 K range. You can get lots of bang for your housing buck.
Posted by: guest at May 10, 2008 10:42 AM
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