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April 30, 2008
Big Bucks for Downtown's Big House?
Here's an interesting solution for the House of Detention on Atlantic that doesn't involve supersizing the facility: Comptroller Bill Thompson says the city should sell the property, according to an article in today's Daily News. Thompson wrote a letter to Mayor Bloomberg that says selling the facility, which has been closed since '03, will bring cash to the city and prevent a reopened jail from damaging Downtown Brooklyn's economy. "Because our City has already begun to experience economic weakness, communities such as Downtown Brooklyn remain at risk of reversing their economic gains," wrote Thompson, saying that reopening the jail "would ... directly impact the revitalization of the surrounding area." Right now community members who oppose the Department of Corrections' plan to double the House of Detention's size are considering suing the city. We wonder how much a property like this might fetch, and what sort of developer would be interested in taking it on. Guesses?
Sell Shut Downtown Brooklyn Jail to Raise Cash, Bloomberg Urged [NY Daily News]
City Looks to Supersize the House of D [Brownstoner] GMAP
Photo by Funtime Ben.
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Comments
Sounds good to me sell it now. It will fetch a lot of $$$$$
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:15 AM
Many money. Say me say many many many. It's right at the juncture between gritty downtown and Carrol Gardens. Fugettaboutit!
$25M
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:17 AM
The cash required to gut renovate this building would far exceed its selling price. No investor would take that on.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:20 AM
sounds like the comptroller is worried about degentification. If you live in the fringe hope you are not overextended
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:21 AM
Holy political pandering Batman!!!!
Whats the 'new' solution here??? People (including me-here) have said b/4 that the city may be better off selling this well located facility and instead build a new facility on less valuable real estate -
the reason why this is pandering of the most obvious kind is that Thompson says nothing about the cost of a new facility or how the city could meet its jail needs in the future if the facility was sold.
You'd figure the guy who is the CONTROLLER would recongnize the need to fully examine both the revenue and COSTS of a proposal.
Next thing you know politicians are going to stoop so low as to recommend repeal of gas taxes.....
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:33 AM
Kept much as-is, it could be the coolest hotel anywhere. Ya could set aside a couple of floors as a dance club ("Jailhouse Rock").
Posted by: johnife at April 30, 2008 9:38 AM
As much as I like Thompson and hope he becomes next mayor, he is pandering to the local loudmouths.
Jail is a very small or non-existent issue.
Parking by city employees/court officers/etc is bigger nuisance.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:51 AM
Ridiculous. Under Thompson's logic, we might as well sell the Tombs and convince the Feds to sell off the MDC -- they are both on the edge of downtown/Chinatown and _obviously_ keeping them open will "directly impacts the revitalization of the surrounding area" namely Downtown Manhattan, inlcuding all the wealthy people now willing to live there.
Maybe all of the city government facilities should be sold off and re-opened somewhere where the "impact" on neighborhood vitality will not be significant -- Ozone Park maybe? Brownsville?
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:54 AM
TEAR it down and make it a much needed parking garage...DO IT
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:55 AM
TEAR it down and make it a much needed parking garage...DO IT
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:55 AM
I think Thompson is looking beyond the simple economics of the cost to build a new jail vs the sales price they would get.
If this area of downtown Brooklyn does well in the future it will bring in a tremendous amount of additional tax revenue. If reopening the jail causes the progress to reverse it can lead to significant tax revenue declines rather than an increase.
So it may be more expensive to sell this and build a new one (or it may not, this is prime real estate) but the overall economic picture would be better if a jail is not located there.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 9:57 AM
Anything but a jail or a fucking parking garage.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:02 AM
I live in the neighborhood..and for obvious reasons would prefer that the Jail was not opened. However, as a responsible citizen, the rationale for the jail re-opening is overwhelming.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:03 AM
This is Thompson-the-candidate speaking. He knows that his letter will have no impact, but also that he can lock up (no pun intended) votes in Boerum Hill.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:04 AM
Keep the building, make it a trendy hotel with bars in place, add some nightclubs with names of famous prisons... Sing Sing, Alcatraz Chino (grateful dead mention that women's pen in a song...)
Posted by: chrishavens at April 30, 2008 10:05 AM
They paved paroled guys and they put up a parking lot!!
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 10:05 AM
Maybe Whole Foods could buy it and put in a 20 story Whole Foods and scrap the Gowanus WF.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:08 AM
add a few balconies and it's * presto * a boymelgreen building already! It's the twin sister of the park circle condos!
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:09 AM
Thompson's idea is better than the current City policy which is to subsidize the development of an arena in a "blighted neighborhood" that's about 4 blocks away from the jail, while simultaneously looking to expand a jail nearby.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:16 AM
Thompson is running for mayor? Oh, and you think that has an influence on this pronouncement? Isn't he the same guy who had ethics violations lodged against him in his previous career? What a jerk.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at April 30, 2008 10:23 AM
Putnamdenizen, I thought ethics violations were a prerequisite for being mayor.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 10:30 AM
Ahh, the atlantic yards nonsense.
Anyone see the Dodgers special on HBO?
I guess O'Malley moved to LA because Moses wouldn't let him build the new stadium on the AY site.
I've known there has been talk of building a stadium there for decades - but the whole show definitely made me wish that there was going to be a baseball stadium there instead of a basketball arena.
I lived in Chicago for a bit after college near Wrigley Field. Brooklyn would be perfect for a baseball stadium, and any neighborhood that got it would become as fun and as endearing as Wrigleyville is today.
Posted by: Polemicist at April 30, 2008 10:37 AM
I'm with 10:03.
It should re-open, but if they do sell it, are they taking into consideration the additional fuel costs to transport from Rikers to Brooklyn courts? An administration that was really thinking about fiscal responisibility would realize that re-opening the jail is the most logical thing to do.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:41 AM
make it a white collar prison: turn the cells into high end condos and put all the thieving investment banker CEOs from wall street in there with a maximum security doorman ... NO EXIT!
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:41 AM
Bill Thompson = David Dinkins w/o the tennis.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:42 AM
coMPtroller
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:45 AM
POLEMICIST- great point. as for dodgers leaving he tried to stay buy MOSES wouldnt allow it and OMalley had no desire to go to Queens where Shea is and you cant blame him for that. He really tried everything to stay in Brooklyn.
As for Wrigley I could not agree with you more the whole vibe of that area during a CUBS day game is great and something like that would be awesome for Brooklyn.
I dont know if a NETS stadium is the answer but its a step in the right direction. I dont understand why people are against it... It will only clean up downtown and add revenues to the area... It could be alot worse I wish some people would be a little open minded.
Just think in 2 years LEBRON JAMES will be on the mkt and rumor has it he is going to go to either the NETS or the Knicks so that would be great for downtown and rest of Brooklyn...
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:45 AM
NYC leadership c 2010:
President - Barak Obama
Governor - David Patterson
Senate Majority Leader - Malcolm Smith
Assembly Speaker - Sheldon Silver
Mayor - Bill Thompson
Council Speaker - Letitia James
Brooklyn Boro President - Charles Baron
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 10:56 AM
Polemicist: The last place I had in Chicago was on Seminary just north of Belmont...an Edwardian painted lady clapboard (just to keep the real estate aspect intact). I was close enough to hear the crowd roar. It was a great neighborhood and still is. You could always drive right up Clark St during a game, no problem.
Cubby Bear Lounge!!!!!!!
Brownstoners could sell their roof rights to watch the game and we could watch that whole legal battle unfold here as well...it'd be fantastic
Do it In My Back Yard as well!!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 30, 2008 11:03 AM
9:17 -- how many mics do YOU rip on the daily?
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 11:12 AM
Ok, I see we have a little circle jerk going on. Allow me to shoot down Atlantic Yards! It's not gonna happen!!!!! Not now not ever! If you was paying attention to the Dodgers special, the same bullshit that happen is happing now. Plus Baruch Collage wanted to build on Atlantic Ave. They tore down Brownstones to that stretch and left it that way for years. Ratner has caused urban blight and when he gets the call for Newark NJ, he is going to say "Fuck all of you"
The comps in Brownstone Brooklyn is gonna crash!!!!!!! You paid 1.3 million for your Brownstone?! Now it's worth 550,000!
ROTFFLMFAO!!! It's coming bitches! Can you smell what The What is cooking!!!!!!
The What ( The FED Tick... Tick... Tick....)
Someday thios war is gonna end....
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 11:54 AM
The What - while I agree that housing prices in NYC are going to take a big hit....your end-of-the-world scenario seems to be a bit far fetched....
We are 10mo into the biggest credit crunch in modern history and we still havent had a single quarter of negative growth (.06%+ announced today) - Even financial stocks are on a rebound ....
You can excess in the reverse direction as well - you look like you may be the poster child.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:01 PM
Sell it to a private security firm and re-open as a detention facility.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:15 PM
11:54am today will be the last rate cut for awhile so its a great ime to buy now the market is not going to much lower from here...maybe high end apts but under 600k will always be in top demand as well as million dollar brownstones so settle down douche
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:17 PM
"The What - while I agree that housing prices in NYC are going to take a big hit....your end-of-the-world scenario seems to be a bit far fetched....
We are 10mo into the biggest credit crunch in modern history and we still havent had a single quarter of negative growth (.06%+ announced today) - Even financial stocks are on a rebound ...."
Homeboy, the effects of the Credit Crunch has not stated yet!!!!!
Without credit our economy is in the fucking stone age and when the ball gets rolling, it's going to be a fucking nightmare.
You and others are so fucking stupid! You are witnessing a Depression unfold in real time. This period of time will be used for dissertations for hundreds of years. The Blogs are historical record of the fucking madness that we call "progress".
You and others are fucking clueless! get ready for the second depression!!!!!!!!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:27 PM
"11:54am today will be the last rate cut for awhile so its a great ime to buy now the market is not going to much lower from here...maybe high end apts but under 600k will always be in top demand as well as million dollar brownstones so settle down douche"
Hey Asshead, if someone don't lend me the money to buy the overpriced "Condo", what happen to the price??!!!
It falls, fuckface!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:32 PM
"had a single quarter of negative growth (.06%+ announced today) "
Oh one last thing! Most of the gains was high gas prices asshole! If you beLIEve the government figures then, so are fucking brainwashed!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:39 PM
There will always be a demand in NYC douche
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 12:53 PM
time to move on What - fed cut your balls off when they caught bear. are you still calling for a depression? you still may not even get that recession ... at least technically.
Posted by: BrooklynLove at April 30, 2008 1:02 PM
"we still havent had a single quarter of negative growth (.06%+ announced today)"
The "elite" will do anything (spin the GDP numbers) to convince you that we are not in a recession so you'll go out and spend, spend, spend.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:12 PM
BKLove...you're right...with all the huffing, puffing and hysteria...with the billions in write offs and layoff...Fed comes out and says "Hey you know what? We're actually NOT in a recession...my bad!" Now, with all the stimulus going into the economy, merger mania and the election...we probably will miss the recession altoghether, but just barely...
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:13 PM
Apparently The What heard the whistle and had to scurry back to the gravel pit.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 1:16 PM
"There will always be a demand in NYC douche"
I agree. Demand for sellers, then demand for buyers. The pendulum has swung towards that for buyers. Where'd they go douche?
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:18 PM
The What - do you know what you call someone who sticks to a position and refuse to re-evaluate or even consider contrary facts as they arise?
Answer=moron
You were right - housing prices were a total bubble - credit crisis will result in some serious pain all around - including NYC housing ...but your sheer inability to see that the Feds actions as well as the markets, have made your most dire predictions less likely - and recent information confirms this.
Essentially you are proving yourself to be as silly and blind as those people who claimed RE can only go up - just in reverse
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:19 PM
1:18, I don't entirely disagree with you, but on the other hand, I'm not seeing any more homes up for sale in desirable areas of Brownstone Brooklyn than there were in 2006 and 2007 (and I check every day). Maybe it means more sellers on the sidelines, but I don't think it's exactly a buyers market. It's still almost impossible to find more than a very small handful of available 3+ bedroom homes in Brooklyn Heights, Cobble Hill, etc.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 1:24 PM
1:12 - of course they will - as they probably should - but...
If we were really in a severe economic downturn - I wouldn't have any $ to spend, spend, spend - such confidence building tactics (false or not) only work if people are employed and have some $ for discretionary spending.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:25 PM
"You were right - housing prices were a total bubble - credit crisis will result in some serious pain all around - including NYC housing ...but your sheer inability to see that the Feds actions as well as the markets, have made your most dire predictions less likely - and recent information confirms this."
"..but your sheer inability to see that the Feds actions as well as the markets, have made your most dire predictions less likely"
No Assfuck, the FED actions have made thing worse, much worse. What was the price of oil a year ago? it was 70.00 a barrel.
Learn the meaning of inflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation
Cash inflation is an excessive increase in the money supply of a given economy, which results in a rise in the general level of prices over time. <-- read this until it sinks in.
Then assfuck...
Great Depression
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression
The Great Depression was not a sudden total collapse. The stock market turned upward in early 1930, returning to early 1929 levels by April, though still almost 30 percent below the peak of September 1929.[5] Together government and business actually spent more in the first half of 1930 than in the corresponding period of the previous year. But consumers, many of whom had suffered severe losses in the stock market the prior year, cut back their expenditures by ten percent, and a severe drought ravaged the agricultural heartland of the USA beginning in the northern summer of 1930.
It feels like now
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:32 PM
Fewer homes in Bed Stuy for sale than late 2006-mid 2007...and what are for sale are on pretty run down blocks and it looks like they saw the 2006-early 2007 prices and tacked on another $200,000 or so!!!
Best thing about all this is that the brokers are hurting!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 30, 2008 1:34 PM
Inventory is a lagging indicator, 1:24. If inventory was anywhere near topping out, there would be absolutley no debate.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:41 PM
1:25 - Where do we disagree? The downturn is not YET seen as severe by Joe Six Pack and he is still employed (barely) with a little pocket change to spare. The tactic is working.
Employment is a lagging indicator (especially since the Government is trying to hide our recession). It's a no-brainer once the mass layoffs come. Why wait until then to be prudent?
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 1:47 PM
1:41, so when there are the same number of (or less) homes for sale in BH, CH, and PS than 2 years ago AND when such homes are being offered for (and sold) at prices higher than they were 2 years ago, what does that indicate to you? And if prices fall by 50%, I'll gladly sell my place and upsize once more.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 1:49 PM
"...what does that indicate to you?"
It indicates that inventory is a lagging indicator and that sellers feel entitled to ever increasing gains. We have to go through this stalemate period between buyers and sellers.
"And if prices fall by 50%, I'll gladly sell my place and upsize once more."
No, you'll downsize. You'll sell low and buy slightly higher because the market will have bottomed and rebounded slightly.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 2:02 PM
2:02 Nobody downsizes unless they have to or want to stupid
Glad you're able to call the exact movements in the market...get back to your day job
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 30, 2008 2:05 PM
What - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bank and was grounded in a US centric ultra protectionistic global economy. you need to throw out your models and put your metal detector on ebay.
Posted by: BrooklynLove at April 30, 2008 2:13 PM
1:47 - we disagree that 'mass layoffs' are inevitable. First, if the Feds actions (plus the spin) work - then the economy might escape severe downturn and mass firings wont be necessary (except on Wall St - where they already have started and why NYC housing will be coming down)
Second, demographically - in what is becoming the post-baby-boom period, business can not afford to have mass layoffs of their skilled (or even semi-skilled) workforce - it is just to hard to find replacements when necessary. That being said - if your unskilled/uneducated - your doomed - but you already knew that.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 2:17 PM
What - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bankWhat - the 1930s lacked a proactive central bank!!!!
This is the most fucking stupid ever. I'm done.
The What
Someday the stupidity is gonna end....
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 2:25 PM
Read the FOMC statement..the key is in what they deleted "risk to the downside"
The new verbiage is...."readings on core inflation have improved somewhat" and "The Committee expects inflation to moderate in coming quarters."
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 30, 2008 2:30 PM
The What just wrote....
"This is the most fucking stupid ever. I'm done.
The What"
Aside from another totally senseless statement...are you REALLY done??? That'd be great. Or are you just done psting today or finished work today???
We can only hope & pray!!!
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 30, 2008 2:42 PM
really What?
it took me about 1 minute to find but one of tons and tons of similar writings on this exact topic.
http://www.hoover.org/publications/policyreview/3476271.html
you yell so much yet say nothing. as usual.
Posted by: BrooklynLove at April 30, 2008 2:43 PM
"sounds like the comptroller is worried about degentification. If you live in the fringe hope you are not overextended"
Um, is Manhattan "degentrifying? (Whatever that is). Because there are jails in prime neighborhoods there. You know that, right?
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 3:12 PM
2:02, it doesn't mean that sellers feel entitled to ever increasing gains. It means the better neighbourhoods in New York City have been incredibly well insulated from the credit crunch compared to other areas. A "stalemate" period sure as hell beats falling prices and foreclosures.
No, idiot, I'll UPSIZE. I will sell low and buy a bigger place that has also dropped in value by the same (or likely higher) percentage as mine and have the same amount of equity - in a bigger home and at no additional cost to finance it. I could show you through a mathematical example, but you wouldn't understand.
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 3:24 PM
No, he wouldn't Biff. The only people who downsize are the ones that can't afford where they are living or because they had a big house, lots of kids and now the kids are all gone and they actually prefer a smaller place.
Posted by: daveinbedstuy at April 30, 2008 3:31 PM
Dave, you're exactly right. There's almost never a need to downsize if you don't want to or have to.
2:02, here's the short of it:
Prices go up = I get less home for more money
Prices go down = I get more home for less money
Falling prices don't shock those who are:
1) Currently in the market (i.e., an owner)
2) Have a stable income
3) Using their home as their residence (i.e., and not for speculative purposes to buy and flip short term)
Posted by: Biff Champion at April 30, 2008 3:44 PM
Why would you guys invest so much time ARGUING with "The What?" If you don't believe his doomsday scenarios, why even bother validating them by responding? I just laugh at what he writes....it's pretty funny!
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 4:53 PM
Hey Polemicist @ 10:37... Excellent HBO special on the Dodgers... O'Malley actually wanted to build on the site of the FG Meat Market, which is now where Atlantic Terminals / Target reside. Kind of ironic that fifty years later, the uppermost parts of one of the buildings resemble a stadium. Check out the book 'The Last Great Season' for more info. I'm spacing on the author's name after an hour on the A Train, but it's quite good for fans of Bklyn history.
Aside from that, Bill Thompson will never be Mayor, no matter what happens to the HOD.
Posted by: guest at April 30, 2008 7:10 PM
Book mentioned above is The Last Good Season by Michael Shapiro (Doubleday).
Posted by: guest at May 1, 2008 9:29 AM
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