This Weekend's Open House Picks

146 Sterling has been on the market for a LONG LONG time. They've had tons of open houses... Also, isn't it Park Slope and not Prospect Heights?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:27 PM

Wow - the South Elliott house is a flip! It just sold in September.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:27 PM

I saw the Sterling Place house. There is no backyard. The garden level is an abomination. It has some nice wainscoting and woodwork though. Price is too high. It's been on the market at the same price since at least November.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:30 PM

146 Sterling is definitely on the PS side of Flatbush. Nice looking house. Price seems a trifle optimistic though, doesn't it?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:31 PM

Why do those corcoran morons keep naming the houses they're trying to sell? The woodwork left in that place is amazing though.

Sterling pl house is definitely in park slope. Brokers made it seem like they are willing to hear lower offers when I saw it in early january.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:34 PM

What the hell did they do to the doors at 76 South Elliott Place?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:37 PM

76 South Elliott got the Ikea makeover special.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:39 PM

i totally prefer the st. felix house to the s. elliot house. never a fan of the white surgical theater-looking kitchens.

every time i see a house like the st. felix -- double duplex -- i think how nice it would be to buy w/ friends. am i nuts? has anyone ever done this? i guess if it works it's awesome (communal dinners, sharing babysitters etc.) and if it goes south it really sucks (lawsuits).

also, why is the madison st. house THAT cheap? bad block? unmentioned stabilized tenants? (it's a 4-unit w/ no mention i could see of vacant delivery).

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:41 PM

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:47 PM

Love the wallpaper in the South Elliott house.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:54 PM

No houses in Park Slope?

No thanks.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:58 PM

Should anyone be buying right now? Every day I read about banks blowing up, government bail outs, massive layoffs on Wall Street....one would think that the Brooklyn market will be impacted. Will all of these houses sell for considerably less next year? The housing market decline in the 90's was scary and housing prices were not even close to the inflated current prices.....what do people think?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 1:59 PM

10 years ago at about $500k I would said the Saint Felix St house would have been a great reno project. Good bones, nice light. But not at today's prices.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:01 PM

i agree 1:59. massive macro headline risk from market meltdowns, more RE inventory on the market than any of the past 5 years, tighter lending standards and mass wall street layoffs (which are not done, trust me). a total recipe for disaster. every day, $3mn seems like an even more ridiculous price for any brooklyn brownstone...

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:04 PM

"No houses in Park Slope?"

As noted previously, 146 Sterling is in Park Slope.

Feel better now?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:04 PM

I have $700k in cash. What am I bid? I'm not touching anything until sellers LOWER THEIR !@#$%^& ASKING PRICES. And I'm prepared to let them twist in the wind until then. I'm willing to lower mine by a third -- why won't anyone else? And !@#$^&* Corcoran too, those !@#$^&*(.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:04 PM

"what do people think?"

I think Merrill is next to implode.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:06 PM

1:59...

I think that prices always go up in the end.

If you want in, you better buy now.

By the time you look around, prices will be going back up.

Maybe not in Phoenix, Tampa or Las Vegas, but they will surely keep rising here.

People don't yet understand that all this gas news is not temporary. People out in the burbs are starting to get super nervous of a lifetime of $4 and up gas. You are going to see more and more people move towards cities over the next 20 years.

It will only mean higher prices here, with supply still not enough to meet demand for not only those people, but the thousands of new immigrants who migrate to NYC every year.

Lots of whom, consider buying a home their number one property. Maybe not in Park Slope, but in Sunset Park, in Queens and in the Bronx.

You want to stay in NY for a while? I'd suggest you save money and buy when you can unless you want to be 65 and be paying $6,000 a month in rent for a studio.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:07 PM

"If you want in, you better buy now."

Only suckers buy at top of market.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:11 PM

Everyone please ignore 2:07 that was the rantings of a desperate broker.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:14 PM

We'd pay $4 a gallon gas plus payments and insurance for one car if we had to have one. But we'd never pay all that for 3 cars for every person in a one-child family. And in the suburbs that's what is required. More cars if you have more than one child. My parents owned 5 cars at one point, because they had 3 teenagers. My entire allowance would just go to paying for gas if I were a teen driving a car today.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:16 PM

Please ignore the rantings of the bitter renter at 2:!4.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:17 PM

But 2:11 that's what everybody does. They buy when it feels exciting and cool and a "sure thing" to buy, which is when prices are high and going higher. Then when sales are slower they get nervous and don't buy. Go figure.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:19 PM

2:07
I strongly disagree....read about Bear Stearns in NYTimes today....the economy is in rough shape...
While several of the houses in today's pics are nice (I think Sterling Place is beautiful), buying a 3 millon dollar house at this time is crazy. Better to rent and then buy the same house for 20% less next spring.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:21 PM

Yeah whats up with the Madison Ave house it seems like i can afford that one... I have been on this block during the day anyway and it seems rather OK.. A few young girls like 13 welcomed me "hey white boy welcome to the neighborhood" My wife and I are really looking in this area and want to buy south of Madison going towards Bedford Ave or Stuyvesant Heights near Fulton St. Our budget is 900K tops and we don't want a house full of tenants, 2 family tops.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:22 PM

exactly, 2:16. I'm so glad I live in the city right now. No gas, no insurance, no driving, I can walk to 20 different stores and shop for cheap food, if I want to and not spend a dime on killing the environment.

More people will do the same. Trust me.

My DIEHARD suburb parents are even starting to get jittery about their next 20 years in the place they've lived their whole lives.

They have plenty of money, but have still been aware of the gas problem and don't drive as much.

Imagine how much MORE TRAPPED you would feel in the burbs if you didn't or couldn't afford to drive as much as you wanted.

Sounds like a NIGHTMARE to me.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:24 PM

what trains are near Madison?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:27 PM

Does anyone remember seeing an article in NY Magazine with predictions from major ecomonists making predictions about housing market in NYC (inluding prime Brooklyn) for 2008,2009,2010? I seem to remember predictions suggesting prices staying flat at best, but dropping more likely.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:27 PM

I really like all the homes this week...

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:27 PM

Geez, I could buy gas at $5 a gallon for the rest of my life spending $1000 a week and still be at only a fraction of the payment of a million or multi-million dollar house. That high gas idea just doesn't hold water. One month's payment on a $3 million house would buy $5 gas for most people for several years.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:27 PM

2:04, we are with you. Big chunk of cash, and renting at the moment. We've basically stopped looking for right now, unless the broker can tell us for sure that the people selling a particular listing have a compelling reason to sell soon. Just sick of going to see crappy houses and apartments priced way way over what they're worth, in any market, and sellers unwilling to budge.

There are some decent bargains on the Upper West Side right now, in contrast. Brownstoner Brooklyn needs a little reality check. If enough people decide now is the time to sit on the sidelines, the prices will have to come down - no way around that one at all.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:27 PM

"then buy the same house for 20% less next spring."

You are absolutely CRAZY if you really think that's what's going to happen.

They just yesterdat predicted a national decline of 7% in 2008 and 1.6% decline in 2009.

Then prices will go back up.

I don't think NY will see as big a decline as the rest of the country, but the worst case sounds like around 9% MAYBE.

Then by 2010, they will beging appreciating again.

20%??? you were joking right??

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:29 PM

Electric cars, 2:24. Electric cars. Problem solved.

Consider Ambien for those all-cap NIGHTMAREs.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:30 PM

2:24, imagine how TRAPPED you would feel if you stretched your family income to the absolute limit to buy one of the houses listed here. Or, you could take your reasonable down payment and middle income and buy your family a nice house with plenty of space and great schools nearby, in a *suburb*, and still have plenty left over to save for retirement, college for the kids, etc. Wake up. There is not an infinite supply of well-off yupster families ready to plonk down $2 or $3 million for a brownstone in Brooklyn and rent out half of it to cover the enormous mortgage, when for half that much or less they could have a far more comfortable life in the 'burbs.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:32 PM

2:27. I'd rather be in a handful of neighborhoods in Brooklyn...Park Slope etc more than I'd rather be on the Upper West Side. It's so freakin boring up there. Brooklyn is the city of culture moving into the next decade. You gave me 10 million bucks, and I wouldn't move back into Manhattan.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:33 PM

Most of my friends in the suburbs would rather die than give up their cushy SUVs and move to subway city, especially Brooklyn which still has, believe it or not, a vulgar connotation to many.
I cannot explain the price inflation in Brooklyn over the past four years. it is just plain weird.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:35 PM

This site makes me laugh. The Upper West Side is boring now? And Park Slope is not? How do you reckon that? I love brooklyn too, but last time I checked there was still way more going on culturally in manhattan...it's true that there aren't as many Starbucks outlets in Park Slope and Cobble Hill as there are on the upper west side, but give it a couple of years and I guarantee you there won't be much difference, except the commute.

I prefer brooklyn too, but with prices at the levels they're at now, I don't kid myself it's going to stay the same.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:40 PM

2:29 --

Why is it crazy to think that you can buy the same houses for 20% less next spring?

They appreciated at more than 20% a year for the last few years, well out of line with stagnant income and population gains. This will evenatually even out.

20% drop seems rational to me.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:42 PM

The Upper West Side has turned into White Plains Mall.

Park Slope and other areas of Brooklyn are blessed with small retail spaces, which limit the huge retailers from coming in, keeping the community more intimate, more mom and pop and just plain, more interesting.

To me, anyway.

I moved to Park Slope after having lived on the Upper West Side for 5 years. It was a lovely place, but the last 3 years have ravaged Broadway and turned it into something I was repulsed by during my childhood in the burbs.

Can't explain it, but the soul has been sucked off many parts of Manhattan, especially the nice parts of the UWS.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:46 PM

2:42...

20% may SEEM rational to you, but it's not what economists are predicting.

I'll take their word over some anonymous poster on a blog, thanks.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:47 PM

That Sterling Place house is still on the market? I remember some loser Sloper use to come on the House of The Day threads and post this house every week and talk about how this house was a much better bargain. Must be devine justice that it is still on the market.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:48 PM

Exactly, what I have always said... Park Slope is essentially like the upper west side, transplants and all, except a 45 minute commute away. I guess if that is your thing.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:51 PM

"20% may SEEM rational to you, but it's not what economists are predicting."

The same economists who declared the subprime crisis was contained?

At this point, I think the tinfoil hatters have a better clue.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:51 PM

2:42 - do you mean 20% in inflation adjusted terms? If so, the absolute drop would not quite be 20%. I myself have a chunk of cash but also own an apt and am planning to trade up. It is a funny time. My theory is that prime properties will sell well, and non-prime will not. From my search (I feel I really know the market well now), I see how properties that are truly prime, and not overpriced, still sell fast, close to and sometimes over ask. Properties that are not prime for whatever reason (fringe location, need a lot of work, show badly) are not selling as well, and are either lingering or seeing price drops. I'm really on the fence about the state of the market but I think if you find a place that truly works for you in terms of all the variables (location, school if you care about that, size, detail or ability to renovate as you like, etc.) and there are reasonable comps to support the price, you will probably be OK in the long run - even if prices stay flat or drop a bit (and I'm not sure they will drop as much as 20% - seems more likely that they will flatten for a long time). Lack of inventory is one of the major problems right now, and I'm not sure how much that will change in the future, purely due to demographic trends since there seem to be a lot more young families seeking places to live in Brooklyn. Others say there are also a lot of baby boomers who will need to sell their homes, but I don't see that as a major phenomenon in Brownstone Brooklyn - but maybe I'm wrong.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:53 PM

Sure we have friends in the suburbs too. They like their big yards and their cars. But they have no friends there. None. They only have each other. Because people don't talk to each other. Everyone walks around like zombies not interacting. Just imagine raising your children in a way that makes them creepily undersocialized because they never get to witness their parents hanging out with other adults socializing. My parents entertained all the time at home. Nobody in the suburbs I know does that at all. Maybe twice a year.

Say what you want but the numbers don't lie. The migration from suburbs to cities has been noted and growing for well over a decade now all over the country.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:53 PM

2:29-
9% of 2+ million is still a lot of money...if you approach home ownership as an investment, wouldn't you want to avoid what most would agree is a risky investment.
I am with those who think it best to wait out this market.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 2:54 PM

2:53:

the trend is JUST beginning. that's why a lot of people don't see it yet.

there are still people moving to the burbs, but the shift is in the beginning stages.

with the urban and green revolution (which is in my mind a great source of what will propell us OUT of this recession) is going to cause many people to rethink the way they live their lives.

do you really think joe and nancy in south jersey, making 60k per year combined can sustain themselves on $4 gas. No, they might look for work in Philadelphia, or Jersey City or Baltimore and realize that the world is moving towards something that is a little more sustainable.

That doesn't mean no more cars. It means scaling back.

Everything.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:00 PM

2:22. There are plenty of houses in BEd-Stuy and closer to Stuy Heights in your price range and several cheaper then the one listed above.

The nearest train is the A/C at Utica (an express stop - 5th stop into Brooklyn)

The prices in Bed-Stuy have come down and are really affordable now given what other areas cost. Area is definitely improving. Still lacking some services, but you won't starve to death if you live there - and should not fear the fear mongers who talk about crime. They have never been to the area

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:00 PM

"Say what you want but the numbers don't lie."

So show us some numbers. Or did the suburban zombies eat your brain already?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:00 PM

Google it, 3pm. You'll get tons of write-ups and studies going back a long time. The fact you've never heard this topic discussed before shows you have no clue what you're talking about.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:02 PM

I don't know how prices will trend in Brooklyn over the next year, but I would not be surprised if they drop 17 to 20 percent.
That seems a plausible scenario. Of course it could be worse if most folks who like Brooklyn are already here or if there are urban riots again etc.
Who knows?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:04 PM

Just so you all know, THE WHAT is a broker in the suburbs, which is why he is constantly sounding th alarm bells so that people will stop buying in Brooklyn and move to the suburbs.

He has admitted being a broker, and he defended the suburbs last week and continually calls for the end of civilization on a daily basis.

Know why??

Cause brokers in the burbs are even more desperate than the ones in City.

Isn't that right, the What???

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:06 PM

I'm so glad prices in Park Slope keep going up.

The addition of about 10 new restaurants and shops in the last and upcoming month does not seem to signal the end of the world here.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:08 PM

I don't think anyone is more desperate than a broker in the city right now.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:09 PM

you are dellusional, 3:09.

sales in the city have been just fine.

you do know that 2007 set another record, right?

sales are still way above what they were pre 2001.

you are what, 19?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:11 PM

"The fact you've never heard this topic discussed before shows you have no clue what you're talking about."

I'm very well aware of the topic. I asked for numbers. I see the zombies have gotten to you already.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:11 PM

2:53, Your rant on the suburbs is totally insane. I visit friends in the suburbs and they have friends and neighbors over all the time. They have play groups for the kids, neighborhood association potlucks, and just casual drop-in visits. If anything my suburban friends are much more socially active than I or my city friends are. I don't know what burbs your friends live in, but your bleak picture bears no resemblance whatsoever to the suburban life I have seen plenty of.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:12 PM

I don't know anyone who feels strongly about their life in the suburbs like people who live in a city.

They are just there.

I strive for a little more than that in life.

For the people who like to settle, there is Montclair.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:15 PM

They built too many houses in the suburbs that at the time appealed to the greedy showoffs in giant SUV's who wanted huge oversized mcmansions and now those places are impossible to heat or cool with the rising costs. 3pm talks about this. The new trend is to downsize and move to the city. Interestingly, retirees are doing this all over the country too, choosing apartments in fun urban settings close to culture so they can maintain an active lifestyle.

Even if you do stay in the suburbs the trend is to buy a smaller older house inside a town with good amenities, a house that is more sustainable and you can walk to school or to shop. More and more nobody wants a big house in an unfriendly isolated subdivision and those things aren't selling to anybody.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:16 PM

Interesting posts-
I am a current buyer because it makes sense for my family to buy now. But, I am prepared to lose money. I think that prices in prime Park Slope will come down. I don't think there is consensus amongst the experts on the level of risk in this real estate market. Does anyone have thoughts on houses (like Sterling Place) that cannot access 321? I imagine houses in such areas will be worth less than houses in 321 when prices drop? With several school age kids, can't imagine spending an arm and a leg on a house and private school.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:17 PM

Everyone here should read this article. You might not agree with ALL of it, but it has a lot of great observations about what is going on in American society right now:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200803/subprime

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:18 PM

3:17...

there are MANY good schools in Park Slope including the one zoned for Sterling Place.

Do some research.

The schools in PS are better than pretty much any other area of Brooklyn, so if you find a cheaper place in another neighborhood, you are going to have to use private school anyway.
$20 a year for each kid. It adds up.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:20 PM

geez, 3:16 and others read too many NewYork magazine and other fluff media on fashionable trends - All without real demographic data to supstantiate.
I love NYC, brownstone Brooklyn, etc and certainly have option of where I want to live - but I don't ignore reality and deceive myself after reading stupid mag articles.
NYC escalation in real estate prices is due more to increase population BECAUSE OF FOREIGN IMMIGRATION - not because of affluent whiteys from suburbs or Ohio moving here.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:21 PM

I love the people who come on here with this story that people in the suburbs have no friends, never socialize, are all bored and maladjusted and spend their spare time down in the basement or driving to the mall in their 5 SUVs. Come on folks. Surely you don't really believe this. There are fun, interesting, and social communities in many many places outside of brownstone Brooklyn. And, many of them are far less expensive, have better schools, and a lot to offer if you don't have an overwhelming urge to be able to take the subway everywhere and order take-out from 3 different places every week. Some of you need to get out of Park Slope (or wherever) a little more. If the fact that you had an unhappy childhood in the suburbs makes you happy to spend $3 mill on a brownstone in Brooklyn, fine for you, but many people can't and won't choose that option, and will be just fine.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:21 PM

ever seen the LIE turn into a parking lot at 3:30 pm?

Also lots of cancer in the burbs from cheap homes on top of old landfills.

Where do you think all the crap from the Industrial Revolution was dumped?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:22 PM

Okay, 3:12, I'll play. I grew up in the suburbs. My parents live in the suburbs. My brothers live in the suburbs. My oldest friends live in the suburbs. Some of my colleagues live in the suburbs. So I know plenty of people in the suburbs. I have lived in 3 different large cities in 3 different regions of the United States over the last 15 years due to my career, and in EVERY SINGLE CITY have seen the dramatic improvements to downtown urban areas and seen cities investing tons of money into it because there is so much interest now to live there.

As for you, have you been anywhere other than Jersey?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:22 PM

Interesting article, but a little short of actual facts.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:22 PM

READ THE ARTICLE AT 3:18.

IT SPEAKS VOLUMES!!!!!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:24 PM

"Where do you think all the crap from the Industrial Revolution was dumped?"

Gowanus. Greenpoint. Williamsburg.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:24 PM

The facts will come, 3:22. The trend is just starting in the past 10 years. It's in its infancy.

Come 2030, these outlying suburbs will be desolate.

This is GOOD news, as far as I'm concerned.

Sprawling suburbs are the sure fire way to kill this planet as fast as we can.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:27 PM

3:24 u wish.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:27 PM

3:22. I can't speak for all suburbs, but I spend a fair amount time visiting my brother and his family in Westchester. They are very social people with lots of friends and are very active in their community. Since they moved there 7 years ago prices have far more than doubled and there has been an explosion of new stores, restaurants, an art museum, and an art film center in their area. Does it compare to the changes in Brooklyn? No. But there have been very noticeable improvements in the quality of life in their suburb. And, for the record, their area is relatively rural, and not at all an urban suburb. These global generalizations you make are totally absurd.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:33 PM

Look at Europe which is a society which is much more evolved in many ways and has been around much longer.

There are no huge McMansions sprouting in the suburbs of London, Zurch, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Madrid or Berlin. They are city people and that's why real estate is expensive in many of those cities (not Berlin, but it's rising fast). Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark...these countries are leading the way towards a greener earth and have already made the leap to an urban society.

This is what is now FINALLY happening in the U.S.

The only reason everyone left the cities in the first place was to escape African Americans.

Now that we become a less racist society, things are changing.

For the better in many ways.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:34 PM

I really like the Sterling place house, but might prefer one of the three for sale on Lincoln place. All seem overpriced though. Any bets on what these houses sell for?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:34 PM

Westchester is talked about in the article at 3:18. It is a city and is not like most suburbs. It has become very urban.

Places like that are doing well because of it.

But look at Long Island, New Jersey outside of the immediate NYC metro area and you will see major problems starting to arise now.

These areas are lacking funding, losing jobs, suffering from housing prices dropping by as much as 20% and have people who simply don't want to be there as much as they used to.

Westchester is a model for what the next generation of suburbs will look like. You can't use that to compare every suburb to, though.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:36 PM

sorry...i meant westchester has a city...white plains...which is doing quite well. read the article, you'll see...

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:38 PM

The Sterling Place house is on a pretty ugly block. Right off Flatbush, two houses away from a Christ Scientist church that is kinda creepy.
No yard. Prudential just won't drop the price.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:38 PM

3:38....

that christian scientist church is being redeveloped. not good in the short run, but once restoration hardware or something of that nature moves in, sterling at 3 million will seem like a bargain.

all of flatbush from 6th to grand army is about to redeveloped in a major way.

very upscale stuff is planned.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:41 PM

"all of flatbush from 6th to grand army is about to redeveloped in a major way."

And who will lend the developers money right now?

Oh right.

Nobody.

Dang.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:44 PM

"I think that prices always go up in the end."

http://tinyurl.com/2yqbrh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:46 PM

What is being redeveloped at Christ Scientist church? What do you mean? Is it going to be torn down?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:49 PM

I (at 3:33) wasn't talking about White Plains. I was talking about a 'rural' area in Weschester, which has also been doing very well. Almost all of my brother's friends are people who left the city in the last 5 to 10 years in order have land and privacy and to live somewhere with woods and scenic beauty. They all seem to love it there and I've never heard any of them say they miss the city. I know that my brother loves it. It isn't for me, but there are loads of people who want a house with a few acres of land in the woods. Again, you are making absurdly broad generalizations.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:49 PM

"If enough people decide now is the time to sit on the sidelines, the prices will have to come down - no way around that one at all."

BINGO...BULL'S EYE...TOUCHDOWN...AND ONE...GRAND SLAM...BOOYAH...

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:54 PM

given that there are about 10 houses on the market in all of park slope, we'd need a WHOLE lot more inventory to make prices come down.

you all do realize that before 2000, it was quite common to have 100-150 homes for sale in park slope at one time, right???

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:57 PM

Agreed 3:36, Westchester is nice. And Dutchess County. Lovely. But the property taxes are too high for us there unless we went further north and that would be too far to go. We're freelancers in the arts and it's better for us to pay low property taxes on our house even if there is the extra city tax on income here, because we don't make the same income every year. Property taxes don't get lower just because your income does. I'm sure that's true for a lot of arts and media people living in Brooklyn.

As for LI and NJ, never never.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 3:57 PM

3:34 Nailed it.
I live in PH and I hear stories from some of the old timers about the racism they encountered in the late 50's when it was mostly white owners in Prospect Heights. After MLK's death and the riots on washington ave... white citzens ran from brooklyn at a super fast rate selling brownstones for what would seem like chump change today for brand new Mc Mansions.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:05 PM

I'm in the arts and a life in the burbs would be a fate worse than death.

I was talking to someone in the burbs recently about classical music and she said...OH YEAH!!! I just saw a classical music concert...ART GARFUNKLE!!!

I almost laughed in her face.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:06 PM

When I moved to Park Slope in 2004 there were always at least 20 houses on the market in Park Slope all the time at any given point because so many more people were selling, a lot of them oldtimers. There was a larger inventory all the time. 10 houses is a dinky list.

Fewer available houses mean prices stay up.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:10 PM

3:57
More houses in 2000 yes, but also more potential buyers. there are fewer buyers at the current inflated prices and now fewer because many are sitting on the sidelines, others losing their jobs or fearing they might, others can't get mortgages...Face it, this is the start of a buyer's market in brooklyn. It may just take some time for sellers to figure that out and lower prices.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:12 PM

Agree, 4:10. Anything remotely decent in Park Slope and priced wisely sells quickly.

Supply is extremely limited.

Even with all the economic news, people continue to buy 2 million dollar homes, despite the idiotic consensus by some on this blog.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:13 PM

You have noticed that - except in very rare cases - sales are going below ask? When sales happen, that is. Which is less and less and less.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:15 PM

4:12:

I bought 11 years ago for 700k in Park Slope. Last appraisal came in at 2.4 million.

I'll be ok if prices drop a little bit.

Maybe I'll buy a few less cases of POM juice this year, but I'll survive.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:15 PM

4:15 #1

Prior to 2001, I would say that on average, 90% of properties sold for under ask.

That's why it's called an asking price.

You are new to the real estate world??

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:20 PM

"given that there are about 10 houses on the market in all of park slope, we'd need a WHOLE lot more inventory to make prices come down."

NO SHIT!

"you all do realize that before 2000, it was quite common to have 100-150 homes for sale in park slope at one time, right???"

NO SHIT! HISTORY ALWAYS REPEATS.

PEOPLE WILL FINALLY DECIPHER THIS PRICE APPRECIATION PYRAMID SCHEME, LOSE THEIR JOBS, GET DIVORCED, RELOCATE, ETC. PRICES WILL GET MURDERED. NO SHIT. (-20% MY ASS, TRY -50%)

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:20 PM

history does not always repeat.

that's an asinine statement.

that assumes people don't evolve.

while you don't seem to be able to, 4:20, some of us do choose for a better life as time goes on.

you are a true idiot.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:22 PM

If I lose my job, I'll look for another.

If I get a divorce, I'll stay single or look for another mate.

Life does not end.

No one is relocating right now, btw, because more jobs are being created in NY right now than anywhere else in the country.

You want to relocate. Move to Mumbai.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:23 PM

why so much hostility on this site? Clearly this is a hot topic, but calling ideas that are different from your own "idiotic" and gloating that your property is worth a lot now and you can buy over priced juice???

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:24 PM

4:06 I'm no suburb lover, but I am a musician and I've given a number of concerts in the suburbs in the last year. There are a lot of new live music venues in places like Westchester. Local coffee houses and libraries all have concerts now, and there are also big venues in Tarrytown, Peekskill, Pleasantiville. The audiences are usually very large and educated. Lots of musicians and artists come to talk to me afterwards and they all live in those areas. I started doing the concerts because friends of mine moved up near Peekskill and started setting them up for me. Those concerts have totally changed my perception of the suburbs. There's cool people out there!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:25 PM

How are numbers of sales doing in Brownstone Brooklyn? Don't price declines follow sale declines?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:26 PM

You want numbers? How about these two. Bear Stearns' headcount on Nov. 30, 2007: 14,153. Lehman Brothers' global headcount on Nov. 30, 2007: 28,600.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:28 PM

4:24, you know what is worse than gloating you buy "overpriced juice"? people who seem to wish that people go bankrupt from losing their homes, losing their jobs and somehow take satisfaction is hoping that other people essentially wind up homeless. if you don't want to buy something, that's fine. but don't repudiate people who choose to and have now reaped the benefit of working hard and investing in their communities.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:28 PM

"You have noticed that - except in very rare cases - sales are going below ask?"

Below Ask and Below Market are two totally different things.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:29 PM

Seems we have a broker in Westchester online today!!!

THANKS 4:25!!!! We love it too, but I'll let you know when I'm cravin Cheesecake Factory and I'll give you a buzz!!!!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:30 PM

"that assumes people don't evolve."

I LISTED NO SUCH ASSUMPTION. I'M OBVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT HUMAN PSYCHOLOGY.

"while you don't seem to be able to, 4:20, some of us do choose for a better life as time goes on."

BETTER LIFE, WORSE LIFE...AWWWW, I'M TALKING ABOUT HOME PRICES. SO WHAT IF I'M A LOSER. I'LL HAVE PLENTY OF RECENT HOMEBUYERS TO KEEP ME COMPANY.

"you are a true idiot"

I UNDERSTAND. IF I RECENTLY BOUGHT AND SOMEONE SNATCHED THE KOOLAID OUT OF MY HAND, I'D CALL THEM AN IDIOT TOO.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:34 PM

4:12 said:
"More houses in 2000 yes, but also more potential buyers. there are fewer buyers at the current inflated prices"

That would mean all the buyers right now are coming from the same pool of people that existed in 2000 and their number and FINANCES have remained unchanged.

Wrong.

More people have moved to NYC. Tons of them. More people are more aware of Park Slope and more interested in living there. Tons more, since 2000. Also way more wealthy people are interested in Park Slope now. In 2000 it wasn't all that appealing to wealthy Manhattan families to buy a house in Park Slope now it's not just acceptable but it's the cool thing to do. Much has changed in numbers and types of buyers in Brooklyn since 2000.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:34 PM

THE WHAT IS A BROKER IN THE BURBS.
THE WHAT IS A BROKER IN THE BURBS
THE WHAT IS A BROKER IN THE BURBS

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:34 PM

Population of NYC in 1990:

7.3 million.

Population of NYC in 2008:

8.26 million.

see where we are going with this??

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:36 PM

4:34...NOT just Manhattan.

On my PS block, I have new neighbors from Berlin, from London, from Los Angeles and from Paris.

All in the last 2 years.

I can only help but think what you say is true. More people know about these places now. And once they come visit, they seem to love it here. I certainly wouldn't want to live anywhere else. It's my idea of an urban paradise.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:39 PM

Clearly being a home owner turns people into hostile blogger lunatics.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:40 PM

Trust me...4:40...there are a lot of renters on here just like you. probably more than there are homeowners.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:43 PM

This blog is hostile-lunatic heaven.
Real estate brings out the worst in New Yorkers. And some of these posters have to be among the worst New Yorkers.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:44 PM

As opposed to you, 4:44?

Tell me exactly what helpful and polite information you have given out here???

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:46 PM

Are you calling me a broker from the burbs? That's funny. I think I'll write a song about that.

I live in Brooklyn
but what I really want
to be is a...
broker in the burbs
broker in the burbs
broker in the burbs...

Catchy. No, I was just sharing my experiences. but you can ignore them if you want.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:47 PM

4:44 shows that new yorkers are the ultimate hypocrites.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:47 PM

The fact Manhattan people are migrating here is what helps bring the Europeans and others from other places. Europeans often prefer Brooklyn once they have the opportunity to visit friends and colleagues' Brooklyn homes, because it's more like Europe to them as I've heard many times. They love it. Lots of times you only learn about a neighborhood because a friend lives there and you are forced to visit! That was totally the case with me and my first excursion into Brooklyn in the mid 90's before I moved to NYC more recently. It wasn't so cool to live in Brooklyn back then but I myself thought it was beautiful and unique and great and always remembered the visit fondly.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:48 PM

So the suburbs people lost the real estate debate so they are resorting to attacks on NYC residents' personalities?

Is that intended to show they are nice people with good personalities? I don't get it.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:50 PM

"The schools in PS are better than pretty much any other area of Brooklyn, so if you find a cheaper place in another neighborhood, you are going to have to use private school anyway."

Another load of Park Slope crock just to try to pump real estate! There are lots of great public schools all over Brooklyn, in Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens, Windsor Terrace, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Sunset Park and the list goes on. The only school that might claim that it is a step above the rest is PS 321, which is way overcrowded. And PS 29 rivals 321.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:51 PM

Actually 4:43, I am a hostile lunatic homeowner.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:52 PM

Nooooo, 4:51!

This was actually an interesting conversation before a mommy had to make it all about the schools.

The public school debate has been discussed to death. Done, over, boring. Put your kid where you want. Nobody is allowed to judge you. It's your decision.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:54 PM

Actually I was not involved in the suburbs debate.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:54 PM

Maybe it's Gabby at 4:51 trying to bring this thread up to over 200 posts by going off topic onto a heated subject as the thread fizzled down. Nobody was talking about schools.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:56 PM

But Park SLope is just better and will hold up better in this downturn.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:57 PM

4:51...

so you just admitted that the two best schools in brooklyn are in park slope.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:58 PM

Flatbush is going to be fine just don't take away the wing wagon

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:59 PM

"Bear Stearns' headcount on Nov. 30, 2007: 14,153."

That number is about to get much, much smaller.

Unless you are counting the heads on the floor.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 4:59 PM

PS 29 is in Cobble Hill you jerk.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:01 PM

Oh now that the schools debate didn't spark something, there was an attempt to start a Park Slope hating thread. Nice attempt 4:57! But too awkward and transparent coming out of the blue like that.

I'm not a Park Slope resident resident or defender but that's such an old topic and so boring. Park Slope peple must be more bored with it than any of us.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:01 PM

This is why Park Slope and other Brownstone neighborhoods are doing just fine:

"We know that no outrageous 15 Central Park West flip should surprise us, but Unit 28C, bought for $6.8 million, just resold for $13.3 million."

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:02 PM

5:01:

I'm so bored I could die.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:03 PM

Where is Cobble Hill?

Never heard of it.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:03 PM

Does someone pay you people to stay on these boards all day and pump Park Slope? I hope so.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:05 PM

NEWS ALERT: 15 Central Park West is not in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:06 PM

"Where is Cobble Hill?

Never heard of it"

That is just too funny. You kill me. "Never heard of it." Where did you come up with that?

I gotta go get a drink of water and try to breath.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:07 PM

Park Slope is the center for upper income arts professionals. These people have lived through bad economic times in their fields...2001-03 was horrible. Some of the 90's were even worse.

The homes there are not filled with employees at Bear Sterns. As many have already said...MOST of those people live in the burbs...in Greenwich, in Saddle River and in Manhaasset.

Another reason why the burbs are tanking.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:08 PM

You might try vodka, 5:07.

You'll feel a little less embarassed when you wake up.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:09 PM

Park Slope is the center of the universe.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:10 PM

people rag on park slope, but if you all didn't have that hood to talk about, these threads would each be around 30, instead of 200.

wake up.

go look at threads that don't have the words park slope in it and you'll find mostly threads with 20 or less comments.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:11 PM

I would just love to know who you people are. I have this image in my head, but you couldn't possibly be that horrific.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:12 PM

I recall several Clinton Hill debates that were over 200. Carroll Gardens had several that were over 300. All it takes is a little controversy and a few trolls to get to the high numbers. Hardly something to be proud of. But it does not surprise that people from Park Slope are proud of this. I'm sure that they are proud every time they take a dump too. Look a that cute little Park Slope floater in the toilet. I think I will take a picture and send it in to Brownstoner.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:16 PM

park slopers do have rather cute bowel movements.

i dated a cute girl there who's farts even smelled like roses.

i miss that place.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:20 PM

I bumped into this woman in Park Slope who was visiting from London and she said that a lot of the guide books are sending tourists to Park Slope and Dumbo. She said that Dumbo was kinda cool and Park Slope was cute, but could have done without the trip to Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:24 PM

I think Park Slope bowel movements are mostly angry pebbles.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:26 PM

The office of tourism in Berlin and in London have Park Slope as one of their top 10 destinations.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:26 PM

Definitely constipated.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:27 PM

I could go without the trip to London personally. What is your point, 5:24??

You think home prices are through the rough because so many people hate Park Slope?

Or is it just a fluke???

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:27 PM

through the roof! my bad.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:28 PM

Look, this statement about the years since 2000:

"More people have moved to NYC. Tons of them."

is just false. Be clear. NYC's population has not increased substantially since 2000. It did go up much faster than the suburbs between 1990 and 2000, but between 2000 and 2005 the population growth in NYC was 0.35% a year. In other words, the population has just about stayed flat. So housing prices have not been rising because of any dramatic population influx. If that's what you think, and if you're counting on that trend continuing, well, you're wrong. There is no trend -- again, NYC's population has basically been flat since 2000.

Prices rose between 2002 and 2007 because of cheap credit, easy lending standards, and the same speculative fervor that drove house prices up everywhere. Now that those things have ended, prices are going to come down. And this imaginary population boom you guys keep talking about isn't going to bail anyone out.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:28 PM

How much will they pay you for that last post?

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:29 PM

Did you all know that Park Slope was named one of the top 10 neighborhoods in the United States?

Guess that woman in London didn't hear...

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:30 PM

No, I was just making a comment. Sorry.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:30 PM

You go suburbs guy. Make those Park Slopers pumpers earn their money.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:32 PM

Yes we did know, because you post it on every thread in Brownstoner.

We also know that PS has the best schools and has the highest artist population in the world and 2 lesbians for every toddler, and more Yale graduates than McKinsey.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:37 PM

ok good. just so we're clear.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:40 PM

And Park Slope is still much cheaper than Manhattan and a short commute to Bear Stearns

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:45 PM

please not send that dull fart essay again oops i menat dolkart

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:48 PM

Oh come on. Everyone would love Park Slope if they could afford it.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:51 PM

Park Slope is also a short commute into the arms of SATAN, 'cause that's where all you pumpers are headin'. Repent!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:52 PM

Thank YOU, 5:51.

you speak the truth.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:52 PM

I just bought a $2.5 million house in Fort Greene. I could afford Park Slope, but I hate it.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:55 PM

Yes, Amen to that 5:51. You speak the gospel of Slope.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:56 PM

I live in $2-3 million townhouse in Boerum Hill. I could afford Park Slope. But... I hate it.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:58 PM

Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope best place on earth Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope best schools in the world Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope Park Slope better than Heaven....

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 5:59 PM

stop lying 5:55 people who spend that kind of money dont hate others who spend the same.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:01 PM

I am an old woman who lives in a shoe, and I have so many children I don't know what to do. I can not afford to live in Park Slope. But that is okay because... I hate it.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:02 PM

No really. I hate Park Slope. I like people with money, but not if they live in Park Slope. Then I hate them. I know that hate is a strong word. But I do. I just do.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:04 PM

I am a cow grazing in a vast pastoral field in the country. I do not like Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:06 PM

I think Park Slope bowel movements look like angry brown stones.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:14 PM

I am a Brooklynite since 1961. I never really thought one way or another about Park Slope, but you precious whiners on Brownstoner have totally killed that neighborhood. Why do you have to continually justify Park Slope as your choice of neighborhood? Because you're not New Yorkers? You all sound like you're from Seattle or some other minor city. It's a fucking neighborhood. Get over it, pussies.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:19 PM

more celebs have chosen park slope than any other brooklyn neighborhood.

that makes it cool, right??

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:30 PM

Feel the Park Slope envy.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:30 PM

i feel it, 6:30!!!!!

i feel it REAL good.

i want to live there SOOOOO bad.

maggie gyllenhall in secretary??!!!

yes, PLEASE!!!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:32 PM

6:30. Absolutely. Helps property values.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:33 PM

Maggie Gyllenhall in secretary is totally hot. I used to love Maggie. I started a fan website for her, but then when I learned that she moved to Park Slope, all of a sudden I hated her. Now I think she is kinda ugly and mean and a bad actress.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:42 PM

Park Slope is actually still quite affordable if you are renting. So I was able to discover first hand that, I hated Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:44 PM

Seattle is NOT a minor city!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 6:52 PM

Seattle will be worthless once AY is built.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 7:01 PM

Thank you for using the word envy instead of jealousy. Most people from Park Slope confuse those words.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 7:06 PM

Hey, how many Park Slopers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

100

1 to screw it in and 99 others to justify the price increase of the house.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 7:12 PM

how bout 1 to plug it in

and 99 to go to the co-op and pick out organic pomegranates!!!??

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 7:28 PM

One problem with that 7:12...

It's the people who BUY the houses that buy these places for these prices.

You are mostly talking about Manhattanites and non Park Slopers.

They might be the ones setting the prices, but lots of suckers are paying those prices.

Take it up with them, if you're so pissed off.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 7:37 PM

I thought we might hear about Fort Greene a little considering two of this weekend's featured open houses are in FG...hhh...

Anyway, to those who are really serious and not just hacking around, I'd like some advice/perspective on what we should offer on a Fort Greene prime location 4-story decently wide house(lot's about 21 feet wide by 80 or 90 deep) that needs a good deal of reno.

I can't get a fix on what the true costs of a reno will be. This impacts what the purchase price should be. We're trying to calculate what we are going to offer.

Help!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:00 PM

6:52... Seattle is minor and tiny, a toy city.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:01 PM

classic hate! You people love Park slope!

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:01 PM

It's a "how many does it take to screw in a light bulb joke."

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:04 PM

Relax 'stoners,
There is weakness in the economy but it is totally overblown. We have yet to post a single quarter of negative GDP. Most economists still say no recession, and if there is one, it will be over by summer. You nitwits sitting out and waiting are the reason people end up crying ten years later that they never bought when they could. Face it, the prices ain't dropping further, even in Bed-Stuy; the owners are going rental.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:17 PM

8:00- dude, the ft green guys are all at the park circle jerkin.it's friday.

sit tight they'll be back soon.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:22 PM

This is economy is so screwed. Any increase in house prices or any money made anywhere for that matter, is just a drop in the value of the dollar. Just a shell game the Bush admin is playing to make Americans believe the economy is still growing.

Oh, and this blog is for Slopers not Greeners.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 8:28 PM

Stop it! All of you.

Let's get back to this week's open house picks.

I live accross the street from one of them and want to know your thoughts.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 10:02 PM

Wow. All these houses suck. I hope Spring brings an increase in inventory and some better options.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 10:22 PM

the bed stuy house will sell for 1.6 in 10 years.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 10:49 PM

when you park on a slope, you roll down hill

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 11:11 PM

average age of Brownstoner poster 38
average emotional age 14

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 11:11 PM

I work on Wall St., like a bunch of people here.

All the major banks are cutting. Guy next to me made 400k/yr and just got let go. 20+ people in a friends group got whacked. each made 300k+.

Interestingly, more than half of them have left NYC.

At a minimum, financial employment is going to be down 10% from last year. These people are either
a) not going to be here
b) not making nearly as much as they were before

Everyone else is going to make a LOT less this year.

Who is going to buy the condos and the mansions at these prices? Given job instability, it would be dumb to take a mortgage that assumes that you'll be fully employed for the next 30 years.

I can see a 20% cut to certain high-end properties, especially the ones that make no sense as rentals. Eventually the price/rent ratios should converge back to something more realistic.

Posted by: guest at March 14, 2008 11:47 PM

You people are disgusting. Life is not all about what your house is worth. I just scraped together every cent of savings I had, plus borrowed, to buy a broke down disgusting (cheapest on the market, seriously) house in Park Slope. It's a termite infested money pit. And I don't regret it! Because having grown up in the neighborhood through the disgusting 80s, the okay 90s and the 2000 boom years, I'm happy to live in it in any of its incarnations. I bought my house to LIVE IN, not to boast about how much it will be worth in 30 years, or in 50, which is about how long I hope to stay. You're all greedy and I hope the economic downturn chews you up and spits you out. Me? I'll rent the whole house if I need to, but I'll hold on to it, even if it takes 10 years for the economy to straighten out. And once it does, I hope the value goes down 50%! That way all my friends can move to the neighborhood, too. If you can afford to think about buying now, you can afford to lose your 50%! It's just money! You'll make more! The world ain't gonna end on Tuesday, contrary to the What's predictions.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 9:27 AM

Rents and prices are coming down.

Manhattan inventory is growing like a daisy in fresh, steaming shit.

Jobs are being slashed.

Those who have jobs are making less.

NYC's revenue base is going to be decimated for at least a couple of years.

Local schools and infrastructure will suffer.

Local businesses will suffer.

It's all bad.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 11:54 AM

This is 11:54 again. Just for clarification, I am not the What but someone who has worked in the financial sector in NYC for over 20 years.

It has never been this bad during that time. Not in 1987, not in 1991, not in 1998, not in 2001.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 11:57 AM

Thanks to all who have posted thoughtful arguments on both sides of this hot topic. Although I wanted to believe I was making the best decision to buy now, I got nervous and withdrew my offer (of 8% below asking) last week. Readng these posts has confirmed my feeling that I have made the right decision for my family (three kids to send to college, I care about the possibility of losing money).

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 12:00 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is considered a low ball offer in Brooklyn? Seems like most houses are selling well below asking price...and others have suggested on this site before that sellers are turning down low offers.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 12:11 PM

12:11 - sellers always have the right to turn down low offers. However, in this market you're seeing more sellers who get it, and who realize that if they're greedy, they'll be holding their property through a worsening downturn while (i) inventory grows, (ii) other more realistic sellers all around them sell their properties, and (iii) their property value continues to erode.

Make an offer you're comfortable with. Make an offer you can afford. In this market, 15-20% off of 2007 comps is a good starting point. Closely examine the rent v. buy equation - renting is way cheaper than buying, and prices sure as hell aren't going up in the next couple of years, so there's a lot of sense to saving that $$$.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 12:27 PM

12:00...if you based any decisions on the anonymous posters on this blog (many of whom post over and over and argue with themselves out a sheer amusement) you are more ignorant than anyone else on here.

i'm being serious. you are really stupid.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 1:12 PM

12:27:

Houses, co-ops and condos are selling for more this year in Park Slope than they did in 2007.

If you think prices have come down 15-20%, you are a little out of the loop.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 1:14 PM

1:14, there is no chance that the same house in PS would sell for more in 2008 than in 2007. It's possible the mix of houses available for sale has changed -- skewed toward higher-end properties, since sellers assume those prices are most likely to hold up -- but any meaningful apples-to-apples comparison would show that prices are falling. And the downturn has just started -- the ripple effects on the Street of events like Bear Stearns' collapse haven't even been felt yet.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 3:12 PM

1:14 - you're quite wrong. Selling prices are softer all over brownstone brooklyn. I'm not talking about listing prices.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 3:24 PM

Manhattan inventory just broke 6,000 units and is steadily rising. Don't know Brooklyn's inventory number, but as goes Manhattan...

If you are a seller, now is the time to sell. Waiting any longer will definitely lead to value erosion.

If you're a buyer, on the other hand, it's a beautiful waiting game. Check out open houses, wait for the property you want, throw a lowball bid out there and know that if it doesn't stick, inventory trends are in your favor.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 3:31 PM

i was just overbid on two park slope properties over the last month.

i don't see how it's a waiting game at all.

my experience has not been that way so far.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 4:55 PM

If you have to buy, buy, but be prepared to see your equity decline. If you can afford to wait, wait. Inventory is growing, which is great news for buyers.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 5:04 PM

95% of people on this blog won't be able to afford these houses, even if the prices were slashed by 50%.

And that's the damn truth.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 5:23 PM

Did Brownie remove the six months follow up on home sales?

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 6:17 PM

5:28 said in an attempt to defend an earlier statement in which he/she said the buyers today in Brooklyn are exactly the same pool of buyers in both number, finances and demographics as they were in 2000:

"NYC's population has not increased substantially since 2000. It did go up much faster than the suburbs between 1990 and 2000, but between 2000 and 2005 the population growth in NYC was 0.35% a year. In other words, the population has just about stayed flat."

How is a growth of .35% of OVER 8 MILLION PEOPLE staying "flat"?????

That's a growth of hundreds of thousands of people a year. Demographers say NYC will contain nearly 10 million people by the year 2030.

But okay, let's go with your silly statements - please explain why there aren't tons of houses and apartments sitting empty if the population has stayed the same the last 8 years. NYC has the highest occupancy rate anywhere in the U.S.

I know you are bitter you didn't buy before this but please just state the facts, don't make shit up to support your belief you can buy a brownstone for $500,000 (at year 2000 prices) if you just sit this out and wait long enough. The economy could entirely collapse and sorry nope, $3 million brownstones will not suddenly become worth $500,000. If that were to happen you still couldn't afford it because you know what? You would so not have a job, nobody would, and no banks would be giving out loans. Get real. The economy is and will take a hit but not like that. Now stop buying new shoes and start saving to buy a place if that's what you really want. It means effort on your part. It's not going to be handed up on a silver platter just because you feel entitled to it.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 7:05 PM

Did somebody actually say that $3M houses would sell for $500K?

Agree - that is ridiculoso.

But given the shitstorm that is going down in NYC in real time, I'd say a $3M house going for $2M-2.5M is a no-brainer.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 7:35 PM

"Inventory is growing, which is great news for buyers."

Yes it is growing. If you want a condo.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 8:06 PM

On that note... How about that 6 million dollar condo at the Williamsburg bank?

Keep sleeping people.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 9:22 PM

I think the South Elliot house looks kinda nice. I like the way the way they kept the original details but added snappy white modern kitchen. It's kind of like the Euro Conran's look. (And why are most of the posters so cranky?)

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 9:30 PM

"How is a growth of .35% of OVER 8 MILLION PEOPLE staying "flat"?????

That's a growth of hundreds of thousands of people a year."

FYI, .35% growth for a city of 8 million people is 28,000 people per year, not hundreds of thousands.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 10:21 PM

146 Sterling same owner as 543 Dean St, 4 unit conversion, 1 unit in contract in a year`s time, maybe he is selling the house and will move into Dean St.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 10:50 PM

146 Sterling same owner as 543 Dean St, 4 unit conversion, 1 unit in contract in a year`s time, maybe he is selling the house and will move into Dean St.

Posted by: guest at March 15, 2008 10:50 PM

Charles, no one uses "kinda nice" except script writers and listing brokers.

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 12:49 AM

Amen, guest at March 15, 2008 12:27 PM. Good to see more and more people waking up from euphoria.

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 6:45 AM

The Bed Stuy open house is from 10-11am! No way.

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 10:07 AM

Wow. Just read all of the comments. Is there a class war in Park Slope or what? Seems like a real tension exists between buyers who bought when Park Slope was affordable and new buyers (who, in order to afford huge price tags, must be wealthier). Am I reading in to much to this series of posts or is this the way it is right now?

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 2:02 PM

Can somebody please tell me what "the What" is? Is it some inside joke that I would get if I think harder? Thanks.

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 7:59 PM

I lived on President Street between 7th and 6th in 1986-1987 and didn't realize the 1980s in my neighborhood were "disgusting." I never had a problem, even with my certifiably insane landlord.

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 8:03 PM

OMG The What was right

oh dear god

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 10:14 PM

I said earlier that in my 20+ years on Wall Street, this is the worst crisis I've seen, including 87, 91, 98, 01/02.

I now realize that I underestimated how bad this is.

Posted by: guest at March 16, 2008 11:51 PM

11:51- I see that we're in the same boat. Deep breath.

Posted by: guest at March 17, 2008 12:43 AM

Yup, prices will drop 50% by the time everything shakes out.

Folks who paid millions for townhouses in Brooklyn will be stuck for years.

I'm not gloating, but I admit I am waiting to pounce when the time is right.

Posted by: guest at March 17, 2008 6:47 AM

The time is now -- to pounce on the "short sale" properties in Bed Stuy. Not quite a 50% reduction, but more like 30%. When the smoke clears - the Stuy will be the next truly hot neighborhood and prices will gradually explode. Why - the subprime buyers did minor alterations to exteriors and mechanicals and left the real cosmetic work for the "white knights," a non-racial term, who will benefit from the fire-sale of the burgeoning "short sale" market.

Forget, the slope, heights and fort greene. The prices will still be too expensive for most (90% of people). Recipe: Wait 3 months (one quarter); buy; hold; and watch. In 2 years, prices will begin to skyrocket due to too many variables to list.

Posted by: guest at March 17, 2008 9:54 AM