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March 20, 2008
House of the Day: 100 Lefferts Place
Why anyone would even considering paying over $2 million for a three-story house on Classon when they could pick up a five-story place on Lefferts Place for $1.8 million is beyond us. Granted there are no interior pics and the Lefferts Hotel is just down the block, but we're willing to take this BHS broker's word that the 6,100-square-foot house is chock-full of period details. Given that it's been chopped up into five floor-through apartments, though, we also bet it's far from in perfect shape. Nonetheless, this could be an interesting condo conversion play. Agree?
100 Lefferts Place [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Why pay $1.8 million for something chopped up into 5 apartments likely losing a lot of details. That many apartments is essentially a tenement building. No interior photos to tell us otherwise, either. Sellers need to take into consideration the huge amount of money it costs to reconfigure a house back into a decent owner's unit + duplex rental like this one should be.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:30 PM
That's why we suggested it was most attractive as a condo conversion, not a one- or two-family.
Posted by: brownstoner at March 20, 2008 1:33 PM
Why even both posting on something so ridiculously overpriced?
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:33 PM
Any tips/theories on why they are selling?
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:33 PM
Would take a million to get this into shape.
For 2.8, I'd rather be in North Slope.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:33 PM
If you want it as a big owner's house, then 1:30 is right, there are better places.
But the right buyer might want just one floor or a duplex and lots of income.
This could be just the right set up. . . at a decent price.
Of course, it might be a total dump with crackheads to evict, in which case, scratch that plan!
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:35 PM
But Brownstoner (in response to your 1:33 post) even this is best suited for a condo conversion it still should not be priced at $1.8 million. Whether it's a house or condo conversion the renovations are too expensive either way to make sense. Plus brownstones that stayed pristine one or two family are way better for doing an upscale browndo conversion. Crappy tenement apartments inside means you have to gut and strip the whole interior. People might as well buy at the Novo if they're going to be all newly built interiors.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:42 PM
suck it BHS!
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:47 PM
in this market, i don't think a condo conversion is feasible for this price. would need to be 1.2 or so.
as a single family residence, the price is absurd given the amount of work that needs to be done.
lovely house from the outside, but these clinton hill people really have very high opininions of their quite fringe-like neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:48 PM
You people are so off....Brownstoner is right. at 6100 sq ft it is twice size of most houses and quite likely a condo conversion property.
Not too many people looking for that amount of space for a 1 or 2 family.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:49 PM
"That's why we suggested it was most attractive as a condo conversion, not a one- or two-family."
You know what Brownie? I was going to give you a pass on this statement. Then I thought he can't be that stupid! All of the condos going up with no buyers, he cant be that stupid. America is going into a recession, he cant be that stupid. Bear Sterns employees and future condo buyers getting assraped, he cant be that stupid. I guess I was wrong you ARE that stupid!
BTW I noticed the traffic is falling after you blocked by IP address. How is that working out for you or you are running out of overpriced listings. Maybe there is no more Park Slope Vs. Anybody no more. I got you Brownie. Someday this war IS gonna end...
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 1:59 PM
Brownie how does this compare to the mansion being renovated just down the street at 161?
Posted by: New Guy at March 20, 2008 2:12 PM
Maybe because it's a new listing, they haven't had the access or opportunity to take interior pix?
I've always thought this was one of the most beautiful rowhouses on Lefferts. It is very similar to the Washington Ave. Pfizer houses and the rest of that grouping between DeKalb and Willoughby. If the detail is as the broker describes, could be gorgeous, even chopped up.
For some reason, rowhouse condo conversions don't make sense to me, especially floor throughs, but that's just me, plenty of people have done them, and lots of people live happily in them. Although the condo market is saturated, a period detailed place like this appeals to a different buyer than a new construction condo buyer, so it's not an absurd idea in the least.
It would be up to a potential building owner to decide if the price is too high, the block too "sketchy" (not fond of that word), and the conversion too pricy. Who knows?
Posted by: Montrose Morris at March 20, 2008 2:14 PM
The building has a 5 family Cof0 but is currently occupied as a single family home. It was previously listed by Century 21 at 1.9 million. The building to the right of it looks abandoned to me, and then there is a big open yard that would probably have gotten developed if not for the downturn. Behind it is are buidlings from Atlantic Avenue which I think go right up to the property line. Nonetheless I think the people have planted the back garden, as they definitely planted the back one. You can see some gorgeous wood shutters in the windows that have not been painted over.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 20, 2008 2:19 PM
What Montrose just said reminds me, it does have side exposures at least on a couple of floors and more could be added depending on easement rights.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 20, 2008 2:21 PM
"America is going into a recession..."
Going? We're already here. Fuck GDP. History books will have it called in 2007.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 2:31 PM
you all are so stupid.
a recession does not mean life, as we know it stops.
people still buy homes in recessions, people still make money in recessions, people still raise families in recessions and people still sell homes in recessions. even expensive ones.
sure, some people will feel it.
have any of you????
i sure haven't. my business is doing better than ever, in fact.
stop feeding into every single thing you hear on cnn.
you all are such suckers. 90% of the u.s. would have NO IDEA we were in a recession unless the media said it were so.
please stop being such ignorant, gullible americans.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 2:38 PM
We don't even usually know about recessions until AFTER they are passed us. That goes to show you how much people feed into the frenzy of the media. Most of you would have NO CLUE we were in a recession if it weren't for the media.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 2:40 PM
The wood building to the right is the oldest on the block (early 1850s): From the landmarks application: 96 Lefferts Place (Figure), a foursquare Greek Revival style mansion with its original doorway enframement, fluted Doric porch columns, and rectangular attic windows.
The Romanesque Revival was also employed in the study area for row houses, such as 174-180 Clinton Avenue (George Walgrove, 1888), in proposed Addition A, with their colorful sandstone, brick, and pressed-metal facades; on the grand four-story and basement pair at 100-102 Lefferts Place (J. A. Frost, 1892), in the proposed Clinton Hill South Historic District, with their rough- and smooth-stone fronts, Byzantine style carving, box stoops, and Spanish-tile mansards;
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 2:51 PM
You describe a number of the wonderful details of the 1850s building on the right but forgot one thing, it's a wreck.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 20, 2008 2:55 PM
2:38 yeah it is all the medias fault
i have been saying this party should end for 2.5 years and it is
holdon to your lugnuts it's time for an overhaul
buying an almost 2 millon dollar resotration
home in a crappy area
better have major money
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 3:16 PM
"better have major money"
i do.
so do quite a few other people in this city.
go get a 2nd job if you're envious.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 3:19 PM
"better have major money"
i do.
so do quite a few other people in this city."
And that means they are eager to flush it down the tiolet in CH?
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 3:29 PM
"i have been saying this party should end for 2.5 years and it is"
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
You've been saying it for more like 4 years.
And in that time, my house appreciated 200%.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 3:29 PM
That's cheaper on a ppsf basis than other houses that have sold on this block recently (e.g. 1.5 for a 4000 sq footer).
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 3:34 PM
Wow that is handsome building! I own a Romanesque Revival brownstone and they usally come with strong bones with lots of details.
Leffert's hotel will not last 5 yrs.
Go for it renters and stop sissy footin'.
I say it goes for 1.4 regardless of the interior.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 3:45 PM
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/fee/589941836.html
look guys pictures!
lots of great details i think this is a great condo conversion at $300 a square foot and an easy sell of $700 a square foot as condos. i used to live on this block 6 years ago! i moved out because there wasn't enough of a neighborhood there at the time and have been living in carroll gardens since, in an apartment half the size of the one i had on lefferts.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 4:06 PM
Wow this look really nice inside.. I live in Stuyvesant Heights and the houses across the street from mine on MacDonough Street looks very similar to these homes... I think the people that get this home will be happy with there purchase.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 4:31 PM
Montrose
You don't like the word sketchy. What word do you use to describe a block where 2 kids were shot in the head on Christmas eve?
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 4:35 PM
At $1700/fl, as a rental it's worth 850k - 1.0m depending on how optimistic you are about future rent increases and how little you are prepared to make on your investment/time.
How much more than that do you want to pay for the privilege of owning in CH? Why?
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 4:39 PM
i didn't know that 4:35.
over this house.
and the neighborhood.
no thank you.
who pays more then 200K to live in a neighborhood with that kinda stuff going on.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 4:42 PM
"who pays more then 200K to live in a neighborhood with that kinda stuff going on."
new yorkers
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 4:59 PM
like i said from my previous post i lived on this block for 2 years over 6 years ago and i never had a problem. i think the crime that happens in the area is drug related and as long you don't plan on dealing drugs i doubt you would randomly get shot in the head.
i don't understand why there is so much hostility on this blog and how little vision people have about the future of neighborhoods. we aren't talking about east new york or brownsville this building is on the cusp of other great neighborhoods.
go back ten years and a lot of places that are now prized locations weren't doing that great and had similar crime statistics. this is a gorgeous home and a steal at the price. they want $2.9 for the colonial less then a block away. http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/rfs/606168386.html
A lot of people on here seem very closed minded and just plain ignorant.
you guys should really start exploring Brooklyn instead of never leaving the 10-15 blocks that surround your home. Brooklyn is amazing as whole.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:01 PM
Don't know why you have to suggest condo conversion, Brownstoner. Seems you are are always wishing people will get thrown out of their apartments. (Yes, renters are people, too, are often quite successful, not the losers people here imply, who for various reasons can't or don't want to buy, or not to buy at this point in time and in their lives - hell, it is their choice what to spend their money and time on, and most brownstone owners rely on them to exist to pay some of their mortgages anyway.) If it is occupied as a one-family now, perhaps someone will want to live in it as a one-family - buyers now overpay (v. renting) right now anyway, or rent out some floors for income (as many brownstone buyers buying now do, even though it is not really cost-effective with the high prices and rents lower relative to the prices - they are motivated by just wanting to own their house, or by the belief that values and/or rents will go up over time, or both, all fine for them too - it's their life.) And if you make that suggestion because of the price, well, it is priced to high to convert and reno and sell for a profit anyway.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:11 PM
The Craigslist posting says it rents for $1700 a floor. So, the rent roll is $8500 per month. If that is right, then it should sell for around 1 million, where your mortgage interest plus heat and taxes would come to about that much.
Worth 1 million.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:13 PM
5:01...you think 1.8 million dollars is a STEAL for a house that would need to be gutted in a fringe area????
are you bill gates?
please wake up.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:13 PM
Most of the posters complaining were priced out of brooklyn years ago and till this day they are still shocked when they see these 08 price tags when they visit brownstoner.
Serious buyers pay them no mind they are miserable and need attention.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:15 PM
But what does "sketchy" really mean? It's become the new code word here and on Brooklynian. I translate it as "a place with nice looking houses and/or cheap rent, in a lower income minority neighborhood". And that's being polite.
People getting shot anywhere, is wrong, unfortunate, and tragic. I don't remember too many details of this shooting, but it wasn't random, as I recall. Someone can be targeted by those who want to do them harm in any neighborhood.
From the pictures of the apartment for rent in the link above, looks in fair shape to me. I'd have to strip all of that white paint from the woodwork, but the house looks to be quite intact. Anyone spending another million to do it over must gilding every surface in platinum and gold.
While not arguing if the sale price is too high, or even appropriate for the neighborhood, I don't see why a seller should feel obligated to lower his price just to accommodate a buyer's future plans.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at March 20, 2008 5:23 PM
THIS HOUSE DOSE NOT NEED TO BE GUTTED
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:33 PM
most of these renters dont know and have never seen a house "gutted" before.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:42 PM
" what does sketchy" really mean? It's become the new code word here and on Brooklynian."
On this site, as on Brooklynian, it's often used to imply the presence of people of color.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:44 PM
Montrose: Sellers aren't obligated to lower their prices to accommodate buyers. But no law says that buyers need to pay twice as much to buy as to rent, either.
For the last few years, buyers have overpaid because they've assumed that however much they overpay, someone else will be willing to overpay even more next year. Or as some people on this blog put it "in the long run prices always go up".
If you believe that prices always go up, you should pay as much as you can afford (or more, if the banks will lend it to you), without thinking about rental value, comps or price per square foot.
But eventually prices get so high that no one can afford them, or the banks won't lend the money, or the wealthy notice they are being overcharged and they have other options (Greenwich is now cheaper than CH), including renting.
Then, the market slows down and, as the message gets through to buyers that the number of suckers is not infinite, buyers start to use rational methods of valuing. Like, is this house a good deal relative to its rental value (no, it's about double what an investor would pay) or relative to what a buyer could get renting (no) or buying in another place (for the same travel time from NYC, there are plenty of beautiful older street car suburbs with town centers, and several safe ultra-urban areas with lower prices if not quite so much woodwork).
If you might lose 10 or 25% of value in the next few years on top of $10k/month expenses, the alternatives start to look pretty nice. For 10k you could rent a triplex in Brooklyn Heights or a 2000 sft apt in a new Manhattan building with a doorman, without risking an additional quarter or half million dollar capital loss.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:54 PM
"Looks in fair shape to me."
Why should I pay $10,000 per month for "fair shape"?
Just because I have lots of money doesn't mean I want to give it away so that I can live like I don't have shit.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 5:58 PM
it would only have to be gutted if it was going to be converted into condo's. if this is being purchased for rental income then the price is a little steep. if you put some work into the place( but keep the original details) i am sure you could increase the rent by 200 a month. There are not a lot of building that you can still purchase that would support the mortgage on rental income. this is not a purchase for someone looking to be a landlord. this is a purchase for someone to convert into a single family or condo's otherwise the price is not justifiable (yet).
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 6:04 PM
Buyers strike! Yah!
That's commie talk. If you have money, you must buy, regardless of price.
Get over the serf mentality. If you lose your shirt on this one, there will be always be more. Uncle Ben will take care of you.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 6:07 PM
The bitter rents need to go to rentsarelosers.com and get posting.
Since when is asking price the final sale price you idiots.
This is a great price for a huge space in a good area. As noted earlier, the hotel will be gone in 5 or fewer years.
The owner can get some bitter renters to move in and pay for the mortgage while the place is slowly redone.
Btw: Why do you asshats always assume you MUST do all the renovations before you move in?
Your lack of vision, balls and need to put up a million conditions keep you from ever owning a home. Go back to Iowa.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 6:15 PM
Even in NYC, people spending $2m for a single family home with no appreciation potential expect a minimum quality level. Especially if they are giving up most of the reasons to live in the city without getting any of the compensating advantages of the suburbs.
In this price range, this place needs LOTS of work for a single family owner. More than for condos.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 6:15 PM
Why is everyone assuming the rental ad is for this building and not the one next door. I think it would be very odd to try and rent an apartment in the building right before you are selling it. Wouldn't that just decrease the sale price?
Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 20, 2008 6:19 PM
1.4 for 5 floors in a rare brownstone, or 1.4 for a white box in PS?
The choice is yours.
Just incase you newbies dont know, there's a similar hotel on Lincoln and 7th ave and in its prime it was just as sleazy as the one on Lefferts. Times change.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 6:27 PM
6:27. That hotel is now being converted, but you are right. It was known as a "hot sheets" hotel.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 6:37 PM
The rental is also through a different agency than Brown Harris. It would be even more bizzare to be selling the building with one broker while you are renting out a rental unit in that building with another broker.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at March 20, 2008 6:44 PM
SKETCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahaha
ive heard black people call rural South Carolina "sketchy" because they assume they're going to be lynched by abunch of KKK members.
On that note, Sketchy would be used to describe any place that makes you feel uneasy or uncomfortable. If being the minority in a place makes a place sketchy to someone I dont find that racist at all no mater what colour your skin is. Also things such as abandoned cars/buildings in disrepair, recent violent crimes as well as past violent crimes make a place "sketchy". Both which are true for rural south carolina and parts of brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 8:33 PM
3 mill in 12 years
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 9:16 PM
Beautiful home.. I think this house would make any ture brownstone lover happy
Posted by: guest at March 20, 2008 11:27 PM
My 25 year old white son has lived on this block since he got out of school. When he first moved in I was a little nervous about all the indicators that 8:33 mentioned.As a 50's white woman I felt a little out of place when I came to visit. He grew up in Cambridge MA which is no Brooklyn but a pretty diverse place so this is not a total culture shock issue.
The more often I visited and ran through the neighborhoood(for excercise) and walked around to see the area I realized my assumptions about sketchiness are always based on income. What I've learned from visiting Lefferts Place and this area is that all kinds of people have all kinds of valid,happy, Ok lives. A junky yard does not a junkie make.
I am embarrassed at my first impressions but part of the reason is that the blocks between Atlantic and Fulton seem sort of unclaimed. I think this last block of Lefferts Place between Classon and Franklin is not yet part of the Lefferts Place Civic Association. I always wonder if we can afford to buy something here and rent it out to my son etc. but it seems totally unaffordable (and we live in quite a real estate hotbed ourselves). I will say the xmas eve murders made me incredibly sad and edgy, Random crime seems way less revelant than collateral dangers to me.I just feel really attached to this block from afar and wanted to register my support
Posted by: guest at March 21, 2008 9:33 AM
My 25 year old white son has lived on this block since he got out of school. When he first moved in I was a little nervous about all the indicators that 8:33 mentioned.As a 50's white woman I felt a little out of place when I came to visit. He grew up in Cambridge MA which is no Brooklyn but a pretty diverse place so this is not a total culture shock issue.
The more often I visited and ran through the neighborhoood(for excercise) and walked around to see the area I realized my assumptions about sketchiness are always based on income. What I've learned from visiting Lefferts Place and this area is that all kinds of people have all kinds of valid,happy, Ok lives. A junky yard does not a junkie make.
I am embarrassed at my first impressions but part of the reason is that the blocks between Atlantic and Fulton seem sort of unclaimed. I think this last block of Lefferts Place between Classon and Franklin is not yet part of the Lefferts Place Civic Association. I always wonder if we can afford to buy something here and rent it out to my son etc. but it seems totally unaffordable (and we live in quite a real estate hotbed ourselves). I will say the xmas eve murders made me incredibly sad and edgy, Random crime seems way less revelant than collateral dangers to me.I just feel really attached to this block from afar and wanted to register my support
Posted by: guest at March 21, 2008 9:33 AM
If you know the local comps and the block well, then you can see that this price is within reason, especially considering the size of this place - but it is a bit high if significan work is required. We'll see. All of the other Lefferts Place houses have sold like hotcakes, even very recently. Itr is difficult to find a nice 4 story (let alone a 5 story) mid to late 19th century brownstone that does not need tons of work in this area, or on this street in particular, for less than the 1.5 range. That of course depends on the house and condition. This part of Clinton Hill still represents relative value to the rest of the neighborhood imo.
Posted by: guest at March 21, 2008 10:24 AM
"I just feel really attached to this block from afar and wanted to register my support"
That's sweet, CambridgeMama. /no snark.
I lived in Williamsburg in the 80's when it was sketchy so I know what you're talking about.
Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:22 AM
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