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March 3, 2008
House of the Day: 150 Bond Street
We all know that Boerum Hill is hot (as hot as anything can be called in this market, that is), but is it really hot enough to justify a three-story gut job asking $2,495,000? Don't think so. This is a nice looking house from the outside and all, and the three-slot parking garage is worth a premium as well, but still...all the current owner has done is get the project approved by DOB and Landmarks and put in new steel beams. What are we missing here?
150 Bond Street [Brooklyn Bridge Realty] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
this has the potential to be like the michelle williams/heath ledger house with a nice renovation.
probably would go for 4 million when it's done.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:27 PM
no pics of the inside?! wtf?!
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:31 PM
Her house without another floor. This house is only 3 total, not 4 and while only 1 more block, hoyt is better than bond
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:34 PM
Plan D - Don't buy it, it's overpriced.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:34 PM
Somebody just got fired from their investment banking job, eh?
Selling mid-reno on a single family gut job?!
I'm preparing my low-ball bid now...
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:35 PM
I like this house, it is nice and wide and on the corner, plus the garage. a gem. I say they get the price or close.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:37 PM
If some one buys and makes changes to the layout, they have to submit and ammendment to Landmarks and DOB...what a headache.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:38 PM
9/17/07 - Deed for $1.75MM
12/31/07 - Get canned from Merrill Lynch
03/03/08 - Realize in over head with expensive gut reno, list with shitty local R/E broker at insane mark-up to basis.
06/03/08 - No bites, price chop by $500k
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:39 PM
i looked at this in the spring time - small on the inside - at the time it was going for @1.85. pre fix up.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:43 PM
Tragically, the man in the blue sweats with the orange stripe was hit and killed by a drunken street sweeper three minutes after this picture was taken...
Posted by: Biff Champion at March 3, 2008 1:46 PM
This house could be great. A good architect with experience at landmarks could propose a rooftop addition and more windows, maybe a orojecting bay, on the side wall. On top of the garage I can see a beautiful garden, maybe with a fancy period style conservatory. The garage could be made prettier too. Gut rehabs are the way to go with these formerly crappy buildings.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:47 PM
Got pics of that, Biff? Call me a morbid perv, but I'm into "funny deaths".
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:51 PM
1:47 - Landmarks WILL NOT approve a roof top addition to this house. You'd be able to see it. And Landmarks doesn't like that.
so this crappy building will have to stay crappy.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 1:54 PM
1:51, I did until my camera (and I) got flattened when the woman on the right with the beige coat realized she left her Crave Case at White Castle, did a uey and ran the other way on Bond.
Posted by: Biff Champion at March 3, 2008 1:58 PM
$2,495,000 for an empty shell a block from the projects? I'll take Plan D.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:00 PM
Price would only make sense if the garage area is buildable for a second house. Seems like nicely finished houses (usually two family) on Dean + Pacific go for about $2.0 mm. Hard to see $2.45 million for a house that needs renovation, even with parking.
P.S. the house will show better in the spring when those 3 flowering cherry trees are in bloom.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:02 PM
another property destined to sit and sit and sit
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:02 PM
The landmarks commission is open to many things as long as it is in keeping with the historic character of the district. A modest (not huge) rooftop addition and fenestration changes on the side wall are definite possibilities, the trick is to work with an experienced architect that knows how to work with the commission staff. this house is hideous right now, it is painted fire engine red and has stark white windows and garage doors. It will look so much better and classier with a more appropriate color scheme and with other upgrades. The commission loves to work with people who are upgrading their houses, they really do, i have been through it, it isn't bad at all.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:06 PM
"at the time it was going for @1.85. pre fix up."
it's still pre fix
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:08 PM
1:59 - I am NOT wrong.
Landmarks will approve roof top additions only if they are NOT visible from the street.
And being a corner house, a roof top addition will be visible from across the street.
Landmarks will require a temporary structure be erected on the roof the size and shape of the proposed addition. The assigned examiner will come down and inspect it, go across the street and look at it. If the property is not a corner, they will walk 50' in either direction. If they see it, kiss your addition goodbye, or scale it down.
Sure you can try, but good luck wasting your time.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:13 PM
Please. Last weeks biggest sales there is a nicer 4 story house in the same block for $1.35 mil. How could you possible justify $2.5 for this??
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:16 PM
"How could you possible justify $2.5 for this??"
Desperation!
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:21 PM
"this has the potential to be like the michelle williams/heath ledger house with a nice renovation.
probably would go for 4 million when it's done."
ha-ha
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:27 PM
A good architect can get a lot through the commission the trick is to insist on a hearing. the staff are rather limited as to what they can approve without a hearing, the commissioners who decide matters at the hearings are grown up professionals and very reasonable, they are more reasonable than the staff who are over-educated and under-payed.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:27 PM
"Somebody just got fired from their investment banking job, eh?"
Ding Ding!!!!!
"Selling mid-reno on a single family gut job?!
I'm preparing my low-ball bid now...
9/17/07 - Deed for $1.75MM
12/31/07 - Get canned from Merrill Lynch
03/03/08 - Realize in over head with expensive gut reno, list with shitty local R/E broker at insane mark-up to basis.
06/03/08 - No bites, price chop by $500k"
Fuck em! Why throw them a life line. I bet you couldn't talk to this fuck last year.
"this site gets more disgusting by the day."
No you mean this Fucking site gets more disgusting by the day.
Hey Brownie. How about doing things in the fucking neighborhood you live in, HUH??!!!
The What ( Yes I love it)
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:27 PM
Price aside, I love corner brownstones. Lived in a floor of one with windows all down the side - very light, no dark interior like most side-by-sides. Pity this one doesn't have more side windows. Wonder if it was built that way, or had more originally. Would want to add some if I lived here - wonder if Landmarks would let you do that.
Also, I'd kill for adjacent garage space. Wouldn't build a building there. Some garages like this in the slope have studio (maybe apartment?) space above the garages. Wonder if landmarks lets you add that, if you do it in character, when it wasn't there originally. That's what I'd want to build there - go for the elegant carriage house look.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:31 PM
no way it's going for $2.5 mil when it's going to require at $1 mil to renovate.
also, the listing is incorrect to say 3 floors plus a basement, they mean 3 floors and a cellar from what i'm seeing in the photo. big difference.
oh, and on the roof addition, LPC would probably approve a small roof deck and bulkhead, but with restrictions. definitely not a full floor added on.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:38 PM
Course if you COULD add side windows, and could build up a floor above the garage (basically rebuilding the entire garage structure), you'd have one killer house - with light everywhere, garage space, and a nice deck (forget the roof) just outside the top floor. Now that would be sweet - and very expensive to build!
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:45 PM
Hilarious! This ain't no Heath and Michelle pad by any stretch...even with the parking.
Bergen is a noisy bus route, Bond is a noisy pedestrian route. The bodega across the street is great as far as bodegas go and you are only one block from the Brooklyn Inn...but so what.
If this guy can walk away without owing any debt on it they should take it and count their blessings.
Posted by: kuroko at March 3, 2008 2:47 PM
I'm gonna buy it and duplicate the 2nd Place "tumor" building, just to ensure that there's grist for the Brownstoner mill in these upcoming years of falling values, misery and desperation that The What assures us will plague our pathetic existence.
Posted by: johnife at March 3, 2008 2:49 PM
Ifs and buts were candy and nuts....
Posted by: kuroko at March 3, 2008 2:49 PM
Is there no garden? If there is no garden, would someone really want to shell out that much?
Posted by: housesearcher at March 3, 2008 2:51 PM
Landmarks will approve a bulkhead...but that only encloses a staircase going up to a roof.
'Price aside, I love corner brownstones'
This looks like a brick townhouse. Is it brick or brownstone (painted)?
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 2:56 PM
It's a brownstone that stayed in the sun too long.
Posted by: Biff Champion at March 3, 2008 3:01 PM
A lot of people posting here seem shell shocked by the Landmarks Commission.
They are such pussycats if approached properly, Of course you are not going to get something hideous that detracts from the neighborhood, but they will almost certainly consider more windows on the sidewall, and a reconstrcution of the garage to make it more appealing, zoning laws also kick in and you can;' eliminate light and air from the rear of the building. There is lots you could do with a property like this as long as you are not a cheapskate about it. A lot of people will spend a hundred thousand dollars on a kitchen but will turn into scrooge mcduck when it comes to the exterior of their property.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:06 PM
I used to live a few doors down across the street, and always admired this building, and thought seriously about it when it was for sale last year, but the LPC issues and the lengthy reno prospects scared me off.
Can anyone point to _any_ instances where LPC approved adding another floor to a townhouse in a historic district? I am not aware of any, but I did not consult with any professionals about this.
The window question raised above is also important and one I did not think of last year. If LPC would not permit extra windows on bergen side, I think this is hardly worth the price paid last fall -- let alone the $700K mark up.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:09 PM
2:38 + 2:51
Your right - no basement / only cellar / enter from outside + no garden but - a deck outside kitchen.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:19 PM
The landmarks commission will not approve another whole floor on top of this house, no one said that, but they may well approve a recessed addition that blends in and is unobtrusive. The staff can only approve an addition that is not visible. Anything else goes to the commission at one of the regular monthly hearings. If you hire the right architect, who knows the lingo and avoids the sand traps, you will get your addition. Historic districts are full of rooftop additions but you need to look closely, they are usually not too apparent from the sidewalk. The garage facade is already pretty high, I could see a redesign perhaps with a new Mansard that could hide a greenhouse behind it. Couple that with a nice restoration of the masonry and windows and the LPC will love you.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:22 PM
Yes, it is clearly brick, with brownstone stoop and trim, but in NY, the generic word for an attached non-frame house is "brownstone" - whatever it is made out of (brick, brownstone, limestone, sometimes all three) - due to the ubiquity of brownstone here. (In Philly, they're rowhouses, in DC, townhouses, etc.)
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:41 PM
These folks have some balls.
I live around the corner, and saw this place when it was priced at $1.75m and we thought it was a crazy price.
Now, I notice that this place has been fully gutted (i.e. its a shell with some floors), you can see it from the street). So you're asking me to pay close to $1million more, plus, I have to shell out another 3-600k to finish the job.
In the end, when this is finished, it will never be worth $3m because of the small size of the house and the lack of a yard (the parking won't really cover that extra million).
What happened here?
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:48 PM
Can you even get a mortgage on a shell?
I thought a place had to be habitable in order to get a mortgage?
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 3:50 PM
I love this house looks great on the outside. I would pay around 2.3 mill but it depends on how much work needs to get done.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 4:25 PM
4:25= broker or moron
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 4:32 PM
The banks appraiser would discount the value of the property by applying a cost to cure (aka cost to make habitable), which in this instance probably equals $1MM+, to arrive at a value. I think that gets you to a number less than what the current owner paid to acquire the property a few months ago. The stage the project is in is the riskiest phase of any complete gut rehab because the property has less value then when the project was started. Current market conditions do not allow for the absorption of seller mistakes such as this.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 4:32 PM
Cuople of posters talking up a $1 million renovation cost for this place. You can gut renovate at least two houses for that amount.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 4:44 PM
this is an amazing house in a terrific area.
still opportunity for major price appreciation in boreum hill.
once gowanus really takes off, this will be primo prime.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 4:52 PM
If you buy an old decrepit house you either have to gut it yoursef, or as in this case, someone already went through the expense of gutting it for you.
What's the big deal? The place has been gutted, that means you are ahead of the game. And you can really look into the bones of the house to know how much structural work will be needed. Its less guesswork.
Unless you are looking to buy a property in move-in condition, buying one that has already been emptied and gutted is a plus in my book.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 4:59 PM
4:59 - I agree, depending, of course, on how much you are paying for that work having been done.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 5:04 PM
There is no additional value added with the permits and demolition as the house is now a non-habitable shell. It worth slightly more than the land it is occupying, or approx. $200 per sq foot.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 5:06 PM
"It worth slightly more than the land it is occupying, or approx. $200 per sq foot."
-Oh if only. that would be sweet!
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 5:16 PM
Does anyone who doesn't talk in broker-speak (which excludes 4:52 above) really believe that the environmental mess that is gowanus is actually going to "take off" any time in the foreseeable future? Its an EPA clean-up site!
There's developing an undeveloped area (can happen fairly fast); then there's developing an environmental disaster - a wholly different thing.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 5:46 PM
shitty location right by the projects. will just sit there.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 6:23 PM
All of Boerum Hill is right by the projects. I never the thought the area would amount to much, ha-ha, don't call me nostrodamus!
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 7:09 PM
There used to be a candy store on the first floor and I don't think the stoop is original to the house. I don't remember there being garages there either so maybe its not landmarked.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 7:21 PM
That stoop is original all day long, you have had one too many martinis.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 7:42 PM
There is neither the political will nor the available capital to make Gowanus "take off' any time soon.
Boymelgreen has already canceled his plans and is trying to sell his land in Gowanus, and I think that is a pretty good indicator of the way things are going to go for a (possibly very long) while.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 8:43 PM
It is unbelievable how these brokers are here plugging this ridiculous crap.
For this price, you can buy a renovated place with 4 floors on better blocks.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 9:14 PM
For this price, you can buy a renovated place with 4 floors on better blocks.
with a 3-car garage? How much is a three car garage worth? And how much better a block are you talking about?
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 9:45 PM
9:14 -- word! seriously, the way (the) broker(s) are clogging up this forum lately is just one step away from craigslist. (unlike in some cities, where craigslist is still an awesome source for real estate, the NYC version is so full of brokers making shit up, it's not even worth looking anymore.) i'm pretty much ready to quit reading this shit, because who wants to waste so much time on all the brokers trying to front like they're not, basically making shit up to jack up their price! kills me... i say down with the ability to comment as guest... i guess i'll have to register for real soon! (or just quit this shit)
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 11:57 PM
Will landmarks let you put a bunch of new windows on the side? 'cuz otherwise, the fact that its a corner bldg is pointless, really.
Posted by: guest at March 3, 2008 11:58 PM
gowanus is the next big neighborhood in nyc.
you all don't need to believe it.
no one believed in 1980 that the lower east side or east village or hells kitchen would be hot.
it takes someone with a certain mind to be able to see potential in a neighborhood.
some have it and make tons of money, and some don't.
in 1980 i bought 3 tenement buildings in the east village for about 120k.
sold them in 2004 for 15 million to a developer who was going to renovate them for condos.
10 years ago property you couldn't GIVE away in the gowanus is now selling for 10 million.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 12:18 AM
ok, so what`s your point? gowanus is still a polluted cesspool and $10mn is way more than $120K.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 6:24 AM
any potential buyer may want to check out
1) the 3-4" lean on the house (unless this buyer installed some sort of masonry anchor/restraint to keep the building from pulling further outward),
2) the tree growing out of the inside of the garage/garden wall, the rat family that has a hole in the basement and used to (maybe still does) have access to the parlor floor closet.
3) the waterbug family..not as grave as rats..but still a turn off
4) the drainage in the basement...buyer should have poured a new floor for this price
4) The roof should have been a tear off as it had been poorly done over the years with mounds of tar around the chimneys as opposed to proper flashing.
Does anyone know if the garden roof was re-done? This was also in bad shape.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 11:37 AM
any potential buyer may want to check out
1) the 3-4" lean on the house (unless this buyer installed some sort of masonry anchor/restraint to keep the building from pulling further outward),
2) the tree growing out of the inside of the garage/garden wall,
3) the rat family that has a hole in the basement and used to (maybe still does) have access to the parlor floor closet.
4) the waterbug family..not as grave as rats..but still a turn off
5) the drainage in the basement...buyer should have poured a new floor for this price
6) The roof should have been a tear off as it had been poorly done over the years with mounds of tar around the chimneys as opposed to proper flashing.
Does anyone know if the garden roof was re-done? This was also in bad shape.
Posted by: guest at March 4, 2008 11:38 AM
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