Gotham's Supermarket Shortage: A Public Health Crisis?

for all you newbies to nyc there has always been a shortage of supermarkets especially in the poor areas

oh the horror she has to drive to a supermarket. too bad so do i asswad

this website is for douchebags except the what

the what is pure genius

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:21 AM

a supermarket within walking distance is not a god given right

sense of entitlement much

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:22 AM

Supermarkets, if they are in poor areas, also tend to be more expensive with poorer quality merchandise. It's a captive audience. No, it's not a god given right; it's something that we the people of a community take care of. We take care of each other. The capacity to notice other people and take care has actually been shown to improve people's quality of life.
You think you live in a bubble but actually the well being of people in your broader community does affect your quality of live. So get a grip and think about someone besides yourself, because your perfect brownstone alone is never going to make you happy.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:30 AM

There is a Bravo supermarket about 5 blocks from the Associated that was torn down. So she has to take a car for about 30 seconds to get to another grocery store - the horror.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:32 AM

How does someone in fort green have to drive to a supermarket?

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:37 AM

To 9:22: a functioning urban neighborhood means that there's a supermarket within walking distance. What's the use of living in NYC if I can't get my daily needs met on foot? It's a city after all.

One of the big criteria that I had when looking for a new place was its proximity to things like a supermarket, bank, pharmacy, gym, etc. We paid more than we might have paid for place where those things were not so close, but I think that the quality of life decision we made by doing so was worth every penny (and I acknowledge that we were lucky to be able to afford to make that type of decision--there was a point in my life when that wasn't possible).

If I have to drive, then I might as well move to the suburbs. So, I think that it's a good thing that someone is focusing on these types of neighborhood necessities.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:44 AM

Oh, and another thing. I just read the article and came across this line:

"FreshDirect, an online grocer that delivers to certain neighborhoods, has so transformed food shopping that many new residential buildings include a refrigerated room off the lobby for food deliveries."

Has does anyone know of a new building with this feature?? I do not.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:46 AM

Joining a CSA is a lot cheaper than the supermarket, with produce of much better quality and freshness. Many CSAs also price according to income and accept food stamps. Still, the condition of grocery stores is appalling in nyc. Why don't they get fined for being filthy or selling expired products?

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:47 AM

9:46 - In Manhattan, yes. Brooklyn not so much.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:52 AM

A true urban neighborhood must have supermarkets or decent grocery stores within walking distance or somewhat close proximity. It's one major way to discourage people from having cars. Grocery shopping is one of the reasons I know some people buy cars.

The supermarket scene in Brooklyn and NYC in general is atrocious. But as crappy as many supermarkets are in poorer neighborhoods in Bklyn, people still need them. They are many older people and moms with young children for whom it's not convenient for them to push shopping carts for 10-15 blocks. Geez, some of you people on this site are some of the most selfish egotistical people around.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:02 AM

A zoning code which prohibits supermarkets in manufacturing districts unless they get a special permit doesn't help matters.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:09 AM

I was doing some research into the new "Green Cart" law. The carts are targeted to the neighborhoods where the greatest number of people reported in a survey that they had not eaten a fruit or vegetable the previous day. Forget, "Eat five, and that ain't no jive," or whatever the slogan is--these folks hadn't even eaten one.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:11 AM

Eh. Let them eat Mickey D's.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:17 AM

Many, many people live in this city without cars. Especially the elderly, the young, the poor. And 9:30, I seriously doubt that the first few posters on this thread are entitled brownstone owners. They're just folks who can't wait for the name-calling to begin on any thread. A lack of supermarkets is something everyone should be concerned about.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:18 AM

Sometimes the cruelty and stupidity on this forum is incredible:
"a supermarket within walking distance is not a god given right. sense of entitlement much" and "for all you newbies to nyc there has always been a shortage of supermarkets especially in the poor areas
oh the horror she has to drive to a supermarket. too bad so do i asswad"

Why does an article noting the lack of a very important amenity for almost everyone in the city - the accessibility of a grocery store - bring out idiotic comments like those two? Are you trying to prove you're more NYC than everyone because somehow you are inured to the difficulty of getting the grocery store? How perfect you must be.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:21 AM

Its called a subway 10:18. Get on, ride 1 stop, get groceries, go home.

I heard they have a thing now called a bus too, that might help.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:23 AM

I could afford my neighborhood BECAUSE it doesn't have these things...

I don't want to move... so I don't want these things!

There's no supermarket shortage... there's a bunch of people out there who moved to cheaper neighborhoods that had less amenities, and now they're upset that their hoods have no amenities.

Have you ever heard the whiners who moved to DUMBO and now complain that they don't have amenities. That's why you could afford the place, dummy! If you wanted manhattan you should have moved there.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:23 AM

10:23, it may come as a surprise to you, but if you only have time to shop once a week, and you have any size family, hopping on the subway or the bus is not all that easy.

It's one thing to tote a bag or two from Trader Joes for your personal food cache, but most families need to at least be able to wheel a cart to a nearby supermarket.

This applies no matter the income level.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:30 AM

10:23: I would bet a million bucks that YOU don't do that.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:30 AM

9:47-Even with a CSA, one can't get all their food needs met in the north east beacuse veggies aren't available year around locally. And poor people not having any grocery options other than delis and liquor stores isn't a new york phenomenon, it's a national social justice issue.
Access to healthy food is a right. Access to gourmet cheese and artisan bread, not so much.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:32 AM

Thank god I live in Park Slope, where there are so many good grocery store options...

1. Key food on 7th
2. Key Food on 5th
3. C Town on 5th
4. Union Market (2 of them)
5. Associated on 5th

And people wonder why people like Park Slope. I can be to 3 grocery stores within 5 minutes of my house.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:40 AM

Oh and the Park Slope Food Co-op.

How could I forget...

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:40 AM

10:32: Some CSAs do have shares available in the winter too, although the variety is not as extensive as in the summer. There are plenty of root veggies, cabbage, tatsoi, kale, potatoes and onions, apples etc in the farm share box. It's still a good value for under $20 a week. :)

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:44 AM

Anyone describing Key Food or C-Town as good grocery stores really needs to get out more.

Compared to any modern supermarket in the rest of the country, they're like shopping in Soviet-era Bulgaria.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:50 AM

and keyfood and natural land on flatbush.

and pathmark at atlantic mall.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:51 AM

10:50...the key food on 5th is one of the nicer grocery stores i have been in, in nyc outside of whole foods, etc.

and they just completely renovated the one on 7th about 3 months ago with more organic selections, better produce and self check-out with state of the art technology.

you are not well-informed.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:52 AM

And Grab for Cheese....Blue Apron Foods for specialty foods...Ace Supermarket on 7th and Berkeley. The list goes on and one.

It's the reason I never quite get it when people rag on the Slope. It has services. Tons of them.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 10:53 AM

@10:30:

..."10:23, it may come as a surprise to you, but if you only have time to shop once a week, and you have any size family, hopping on the subway or the bus is not all that easy."

What shouldn't surprise you is that it isn't that easy... because you moved there!

If you want amenities right around the corner, pony up the bucks to move to a place that has them!

Sounds to me like you ought to move to the suburbs.

And anyone who is comparing New York City to the rest of the country needs to open THEIR eyes... many of us DO live like we're in a third world country. Face it, New York City IS like a third world country.

I see pictures of poor people in third world countries riding nicer bicycles than what you see here, because anything nicer would be stolen.

...and why do you think our milk has a different freshness date?

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:10 AM

Why can't this woman stop on her way home from work in Manhattan at a decent grocery store???

The driving bit and taking 6 cabs and 15 buses to a grocery stores is absurd.

Stop at Union Square and hit Trader Joe's woman!

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:14 AM

Your are such a loser, 11:10. If everyone had an attitude like yours, accepting all the shit, nothing would change.

and 11:14 how do you know she's close to the Union Square lines or anywhere else in Manhattan? People have to buy alot if they have families and don't have time to run to Traders Joes 3 or 4 times a week. You think carrying carrying a bunch of grocery bags is easy for an older woman on a crowded subway? Is it too much to ask you people to see past the nose on your face?

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:19 AM

There is pathmark at Atlantic Terminal. She can easily walk there from Ft. Greene.

There ARE options near to her. She just doesn't seem to want to go there. She wants to exaggerate and make it seem like it's such a chore so she can be highlighted in this article.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:22 AM

i live in middle village queens. i know you hate queens. but i have a 3 bedroom 2 bath apt-(hardwood floors-granite counters and ss appliances) with ample parking outside my door (no opposite side) and my rent is $1700 a month.

the x-press bus takes me into midtown in 15 mins every morning and i have 2 supermarkets within walking distance as well as trader joes and 2 large stop and shops within 10 min drive- the dry cleaner delivers to my home and the mom and pop drugstore does as well

tell me why brooklyn is so great?

rag on queesn all you want but i have what you wish you had at half the price and my neighborhood is super clean quiet and safe

stay in brooklyn cry babies

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:23 AM

clean and quiet?

sounds like the burbs.

no thanks.

you love queens so much you are reading and commenting on brownstoner, a blog about brooklyn.

hmmmmmmmmm

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:25 AM

This is a big problem. They converted the Key Food on Court Street to a CVS. People in southern Carroll Gardens are half a mile from the nearest supermarket.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:27 AM

actually 11:25 it is less than 4 miles from midtown-

go back to ohio

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:28 AM

11:23 you are a renter
This is a web site about brownstones

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:29 AM

"within 10 min drive"

again, no thank you.

i live in a city so i DON'T have to drive.

thanks anyway.

enjoy queens! and brownstoner!

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:31 AM

Who would want to be at a dinner party and have people ask you where you live and you have to say QUEENS??!!

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:32 AM

The woman in the article in question has an injured leg which prevents her from taking the bus to get groceries. She lives on Myrtle Avenue in Fort Greene in a housing project. A friend drives her to get groceries every three weeks. I don't understand the suppositions being made in this thread about any sense of entitlement on her part. Do you honestly think she moved to a housing project in Fort Greene out of some sort of delusion of neighborhood cache? That's ridiculous. She's poor, lives in government housing, and is disabled, and somehow she's an asshole for wishing she could walk across the street to a now shuttered grocery store and get a decent bunch of broccoli at a decent price. Unbelievable.

Read the article before slinging around your axe-grindy, "my neighborhood's better'n yours" crap.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:32 AM

11:23 - The hipsteratti on this site will inform you that things like quiet, clean, civility, are bourgeois values that they disdain. That's why they'll gladly pay $3 million to live in a brownstone shoebox - because it gives them the 'urban' credibility they crave.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:33 AM

I am a renter! Yeah for renters! Renters can love brownstone Brooklyn! Welcome, renters!

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:33 AM

"because it gives them the 'urban' credibility they crave."

Imagine that. People who live in the largest city in the country want to live in an urban style.

SHAME ON THEM!!!

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:36 AM

Newsflash:

It's difficult for the disabled to go food shopping!

Crisis!

We should knock down some historic buildings in an effort to repair poor peoples legs.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:42 AM

THERE IS a grocery store FIVE short city blocks from the one that was torn down. That's why the article is a joke - when you have a grocery store FIVE short blocks away, that's not an example of disappearing grocery stores.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 11:47 AM

Some people have to travel to get groceries? Yea, and I am one of them. No big deal. Cry me a river.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 12:31 PM

Okay, 11:47, so there is a grocery store 5 blocks away. Perhaps this is not the best example in the article - but help me understand. Are you are arguing that there is in fact no trend toward a dearth of grocery stores in NYC because the focus of this article isn't a prime example? Do you think F&D Reports has it wrong, even if their focus is more on the "million dollar condo with a side of bokchoy" crowd? If that is so, then why the move by Bloomberg to license more fruit and vegetable carts in lower income areas? I'm not understanding how it is a bad thing for city government to advocate for readily available, reasonably priced, healthy food for all stripes of people, regardless of the opposite being the de facto standard in other parts of the country, in certain parts of the city, or anywhere else. What's with the hostility toward an initiative that makes sense?

I'm not advocating for knocking down an historic building to put in a glass tower with a Whole Foods at street level - though, honestly 11:42, your point isn't clear; the exact opposite is happening, according to the article, grocery stores in older buildings are disappearing as developers continue their land-grabbing. I'm talking about incentives to keep extant grocery stores solvent or attract new markets to lower income areas. Why should funds be allocated to remodel and expand the Associated on 5th Avenue and Union streets while another which services Fort Greene is shuttered? Because developers want to land grab without considering the needs of the existing population of a given area, irrespective of income.

I can't wrap my head around taking a "quit whining!" stance over noting a 1/3 drop in grocery stores in the five boroughs and an ensuing initiative to do something about it.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 12:37 PM

"If that is so, then why the move by Bloomberg to license more fruit and vegetable carts in lower income areas?"

But according to everyone on here, FT GREENE isn't low income.

If it is, then why do homes sell for 3 million dollars?

Which incidentally, I don't think they should. I think Ft. Green is severely overpriced, given the median income of the neighborhood is around 25K a year.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 12:41 PM

I am so sick of listening to Ingersoll/Whitman residents complain about the lack of a supermarket.

There is a fine market on the corner of Myrtle and Carlton. It is ON THE PROPERTY. There is also a medium sized bodgea across from the park.

Just because there isn't a mega market across the street for a few years (when Gristedies opens) shouldn't require LaBithca James & Co. to start protest rallies claiming that this is 21st century slavery revisited.

If someone is disabled, there are dozens of organizations that can help (i.e. meals on wheels). Everyone else can walk a few extra blocks.

Basically it just greedy, selfish and stupid thinking. PJ residents need to stop blaming others for their situation and start fixing their own problems.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 2:07 PM

Reading the comments is better than sex (well almost). As a group you are truly comical.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 3:47 PM

Yeah, but since those Chinese live out in Bensonhurst, they're beneath contempt. Almost as bad as Queens.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 3:59 PM

3:47 you need to seriously get some.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 4:42 PM

"I am so sick of listening to Ingersoll/Whitman residents complain about the lack of a supermarket.

There is a fine market on the corner of Myrtle and Carlton. It is ON THE PROPERTY. There is also a medium sized bodgea across from the park."

Do you shop at either location? If so, please tell me about the quality, abundance and price of food and sundries. Seriously, I'm interested. Have you found yourself in the position of having to buy laundry detergent, tampons, or over the counter medication at a bodega or small market, assuming the market even carries sundries and not just food? How about the fresh vegetables - iceberg lettuce, pink tomatoes, broccoli or cabbage for 3 or 4 bucks a bunch or head? Personally, I'd rather use that money to ride the subway or bus for a week. And then let's talk about competition affecting price and quality at these perfectly acceptable markets.

"If someone is disabled, there are dozens of organizations that can help (i.e. meals on wheels). Everyone else can walk a few extra blocks."

Have you worked for Meals on Wheels? If so, than you understand that you must be over sixty years of age with a chronic or debilitating health problem to qualify. And even then, you're going to receive powdered milk, canned chicken, and generic tuna helper most likely, or a ham sandwich and container of chicken noodle soup if you're lucky. Meals on Wheels provides a necessary service, but its subsistence living, the quality of the food isn't likely to do anything to improve your health or spirits, and, as you know if you've volunteered with them, it's a service primarily for the elderly. The average age of most clients is over 80. So, if you're forty-five, making too much for public assistance but not enough to comfortably cover your rent and whatever price you have to pay at your one local market five blocks away, and you have children and a you happen to break your leg too bad - you'll just have to wait until you're old and sick enough to qualify for Meals on Wheels.

Your logic seems to be that if you find yourself disabled and on a low or fixed income, you should simply accept whatever scraps are available to you, walk greater distances, and accept worse quality and/or supply and less competition in the area which, as you know, means higher prices. That's not logic at all. That's just classism at it's worst. It's an extraordinarily cynical and cold view, in my opinion. Not to mention pretty entitled, truthfully, the very thing your post pretty scathingly indicts the residents of the "PJs" for rather soundly.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 5:08 PM

i thought it was called survival of the fittest, 5:08.

if someone is so bad off like you describe, perhaps they don't belong in new york city.

the person you just described sounds better suited for a group or nursing home.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 5:14 PM

Let's hope your luck never runs out, 5:14. Or your mother's or child's. Let's also hope you or yours never finds themselves facing a catastrophic injury or illness, treatment for which goes over your insurance cap and exhausts your ample savings. And please tell me about free quality group and nursing home care for weak, life-long residents of New York who have the gaul to want to live out their lives here.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 5:18 PM

regarding 12:41: wow! as a ft. greene resident I had no idea the average income is 25K a year. given how expensive the neighborhood has become i would never have thought that. i feel quite good now being above the average. wohooo!

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 6:08 PM

Most people in this country are one bad car accident away from financial ruin. Unless your last name is Bloomberg, Rockefeller or Bush, you shouldn't be so comfortable and full of yourselves.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 6:20 PM

if i were in financial ruin or close to it, the last place i would be living would be new york city.

i'd find myself a nice place in west virginia.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 7:14 PM

2:07 here, responding to 5:08 and 5:14.

#1
My wife shops for our family from time to time at that market I referenced. She said it's not spit shine clean and could be better, but it is perfectly acceptable. Also I have lived in NYC all my life and have relied on many bodegas and smaller markets for my food needs. Most foods are in boxes or cans - who cares if there are 10 aisles or 40 aisles. And yes, they sell ok produce - but there are plenty of places on Dekalb for that. God forbid someone has to walk to the other side of the park for some lettuce.

#2
Both my mother and my grandmother were on meals on wheels from time to time (including within the last year). They both said that the food was a little bland, but healthy and fresh. They did not indicate that the food was anything as you described. I doubt you have a clue about what you are talking about.

My hostility for the PJs arises from the attitude that somehow they are being forced out or protecting "their" neighborhood. But there are two problems with that concept: (1) every NYC neighborhood changes its socio/ethnic character; and (2) the PJs are PUBLIC, so they should not be the domain of a limited group of people who could improve their lives if they were in the habit of getting off their butt and taking care of their own problems.

No one has a "right" to be here. I was pushed out of my childhood neighborhood, but have worked hard and now make enough money to support my family. It's people like you who preach entitlements as a way of life that are breaking the back of the American work force. Since when is everything supposed to be free for those who provide the smallest benefit to society?

#3
"And please tell me about free quality group and nursing home care for weak, life-long residents of New York who have the gaul to want to live out their lives here."

New York State pays for 100% of nursing home care for people on Medicaid (both in home and in a facility). Rich people pay lawyers tens of thousands of dollars to put their assets in trust so they don't have to pay up. If you are broke to begin with - then you don't need a lawyer. Ta-da!

Now, since I have demonstrated that I know what I am talking about, why dont you put some real facts behind your weak @ss "logic".

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 8:07 PM

1. Why should you or anyone else have to subsist on a diet of boxed and canned foods? Why should you or anyone else have to shop in smaller bodegas or markets because businesses refuse to invest in your neighborhood where a larger supermarket would benefit you and yours? Why should you have to pay higher prices because of limited stock? This makes no sense. Particularly in New York City, where there is extreme wealth and abundance. Why defend poverty when there is no need for it? You're reading brownstoner, for god's sake, a blog about homes selling for millions of dollars right next door to housing projects. How does that sit with you? If you've risen above the poverty line and choose to do nothing but sit back and point fingers at the poor instead of where they squarely belong - at the wealthy, the empowered, those able to affect change from the top down instead of the other way around - then the system has worked it's magic on your mind.

I personally know of someone who worked for the mayor's office until July of this past year who quit their job after a meeting wherein Bloomberg stated, flatly, "I think the goal here is to ensure that the minimum income necessary to live on the island of Manhattan is $100,000 or more." If an asshole like that is willing to admit there's a problem with the number of supermarkets in this city - if only as a sop to his own personal vanity, given that he's an anti-smoking, let's all lower our cholesterol numbers and take up jogging health-enthusiast - then, fine by me. Whatever it takes to make sure your mother or mine can by an apple for less a dollar.

2. I worked for Meals on Wheels in New Orleans - where I grew up, in poverty, in New Orleans East, in a neighborhood which is now a pile of moldering rubble, thanks - and in Chicago where I, too, got educated, and I now live here, in Brooklyn, well above the poverty line. We lived on foodstamps and public assistance more than once. If your own mother and grandmother have gotten healthy food from meals on wheels, congratulations. You're lucky. The system has come a long way - it's probably due to volunteers and private purveyors in your neighborhood who care that people in need have access to quality food. Why? Because all the labor is outsourced to local providers who understand and care about the concept of community, that's why. That aside, the larger question and, indeed, the point of this post is what if your mother could simply walk two blocks to a well-maintained, competitively priced supermarket with abundant, quality food? What if that was the standard and not a luxury? That your mother and grandmother are the very people many of the wealthiest in this city think are the problem, that they should be viewed as a blight on the landscape, that they should be denied any choice whatsoever in feeding themselves should enrage you. That it does not enrages me. I've lived through poverty and need. I watched my own parents choose between allowing my brother and me a meal and putting a gallon of gas in the car so my mother could get to the work. Oh, and my father? Unemployable, thanks to clinical depression and substance abuse.

3. The key word in my argument is "quality" free nursing home care. And, again, welcome to our wonderful system of keeping the poor impoverished and without choice. Medicaid sucks - something I'm well aware of because I've walked some pretty destitute cases through the legal system. You begrudge those on Medicaid their "free" medical warehousing - oops, I mean, housing? Well, you'll be happy to know most people on Medicaid get to wade through the bureaucracy of private drug companies subsidized by the government when they need an appropriate dosage of their 11 different medications on a given day while living in a firetrap of a nursing home run by a convicted felon. And, by the way, don't worry about the drain on the workforce or, I'm assuming, your hard earned tax dollars - if someone like your mother or grandmother or me or you have a single cent to our names upon our death, within the medicaid system, a nice little lien will be placed on our estate the moment we pass away. So forget passing along in paltry amount of money we may have managed to save for future generations - a major component of how people rise out of the poverty wheel, education and luck notwithstanding. But go ahead and keep thinking it's your bootstraps that are stronger than most.

"Entitlements for free"? Hardly. We're talking about food. We have loads of it - we're one of the richest cities in the richest country in the world. And if you'd like to learn a little about why many of the impoverished in this country become a burden on the health system - "entitlements for free", though I'm sure you'd like you're own family to be above this label, Meals on Wheels nothwithstanding - do a little research on how a crap diet contributes to diabetes, heart disease, arteriosclerosis, morbid obesity and other ailments preventable through preemptive proper nutrition. And pick up a little book called Class Matters, any book by Jonathan Kozol, or the work of Ruby Payne.

And that, and those, are facts.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:51 PM

New Yorkers I think as a group are the most on edge of any americans, we are more like a third world country, the have and the have nots. It is just the way it is. reasonably successful people move out. it is a big country, leaving behind the poor, the lame-brained, and the folks who have a special reason to live here like certain sects of orthodox Jews, professional transvstities,
anorexic socialite x-rays, advertising barracudas and TV News anchorpeople.
Wake up and smell the coffee, everyone else with half a brain has gotten out of Dodge or is looking frantically to do so.

Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 9:57 PM

where are they going, 9:57?

every person i know with a masters or law school degree wants to be here in new york city. the rest of the country is floundering right now, except a few select cities.

of my graduating class at yale in my department, 87 of the 125 people moved to new york city.

most of the rest moved to either dc, london or boston.

you don't really know what you're talking about.

or do you think that all my classmates are transvestites?

Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 10:58 AM

The rest of the US is a shitshow. Seattle is ok, San Fran is ok. A couple others are ok, but 10:58 is right.

New York is still the driving force for anyone in the performing and visual arts, advertising, law, fashion, finance and some sectors of entertainment.

Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 11:05 AM

Every celebrity on the planet wants an apartment in New York.

Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 11:13 AM

10:58, you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. In the 1st place, 9:57 is talking about people moving out, not people moving in. So I don't quite understand what the point is in giddily bringing up the fact that so many of your classmates have moved here. That's like someone disputing my claim that car accidents can be fatal, by bringing up the fact that so many people have survived them.

In the second place, if you'd bother keeping up with the news, you'd know that people ARE getting out of dodge:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/03/nyregion/03blacks.html?_r=1&pagewanted=1&oref=slogin

If you want to know where they're moving to, read the article to get your answer.

Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 2:06 PM

What astonishes me every time I see protesters marching about the closing of that supermarket across from the projects is that about 80% of them could clearly use the exercise of walking a few blocks to get groceries. Which is what I have done since I moved to Clinton Hill 20 years ago. Buy a rolling granny-cart, folks, watch a little less TV so you have time for the trip, load up, and stretch your legs. Before CH, I lived in an area of the E Village long before it was fashionable or had supermarkets. No problem; I found out what stuff I wanted was available in reasonable walking distance (say about 12 blocks)and occasionally took the train to find the rest. The money I saved with my stabilized rent made it possible to buy in CH. I've lived at Classon and Greene for 20 years, and used to get off the train after work at BHts, buy my produce, and walk home. Now I'm a senior citizen, and these days I walk daily to and from Fresh Market (at Fulton and S. Oxford) or Perelandra (in Bklyn Hts) to get fresh fruit and veggies. My granny cart gets enough of a workout that I have to get a new one every couple of years. But maybe it's all the walking (and fresh produce) that's kept me in better health than a lot of my contemporaries.

Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 1:00 PM

It's nice you've always had the time to set aside for a nice long walk to get groceries, 1pm. Not everyone has that luxury. Most families have both parents working full time long hours. Those people and others who work don't necessarily want to give up an afternoon every weekend just to get their groceries. Buying groceries should be a one-hour activity total including travel time to get there and get home.

The fewer the markets and amenities the more cars on the road in Brooklyn. Aren't we supposed to be trying to reduce greenhouse gases and waste of oil, not increase it? We don't want to own a car but we feel like we have to. It sucks.

Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 5:50 PM

1PM here. I worked very long hours just like you when I was working in Manhattan, 5:50. In fact, in semi-retirement now, I still do, in a home office. But for me, walking is not a "luxury." It's a conscious decision -and one I made many years ago, and absorbed into my way of life. New York City is one of the most walkable in the world. Walking to get your groceries is a choice, for both your health and the environment.

You say you "don't want to own a car but feel like we have to" and you "don't necessarily want to give up an afternoon every weekend." Fine. But you have to realize that in acting on that desire, you're making a choice to own a car and add to the general pollution in order to save time to do what you'd rather be doing. Therefore, your decision is that your time is worth more to you than the environment. No offense, but you could easily "reduce greenhouse gases and waste of oil," by simply making a different decision, but you've decided not to. And if that's the value system you teach your children, they will do the same. So don't say "it sucks," as though you're helpless to do otherwise.

Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 6:42 PM

I work on Wall Street and every week it seems a bill board goes up for conversion of office space to rental or condos. But not a single grocery store seems to be going up in the area. So guess that means everyone will be shopping at the Duane Reade, the couple of convince store/salad bar places or using Fresh Direct and have one of those noisy refrigerated trucks idling outside their luxury digs bring them over packaged food.

It is not just the poorer nabs that have this problem. The whole city needs better access to grocery stores with in easy walking distance, so that people are not dependant on polluting cars or delivery trucks to obtain their food.

Posted by: guest at March 10, 2008 10:20 AM