« Closing Bell: New Starrett City Bids Coming In Monday Links »
March 7, 2008
Friday Blogwrap
Crown Heights. Photo by emma.maria.
Three Cents Worth: The Seasonal Listing Wavelength [Curbed]
Rumblings in Midtown, Park Slope, Ditmas Park [Eater]
Open House: A Sneak Peak at 1050 Broadway [Bed Stuy Blog]
Odd Grass Strips at Cadman Plaza Park [McBrooklyn]
The Madness of Taxes and Tenants [Bushwick BK]
Two More Seventh Avenue Things [OTBKB]
Trackback Pings
TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.brownstoner.com/mte/mt-tb.cgi/4134
Comments
Brownstoner:
Crown Heights, where I lived as a boy. The handsomest, most under-valued neighborhood in Brooklyn -- or New York, for that matter.
Nostalgic on Park Avenue
Posted by: guest at March 7, 2008 7:08 PM
Oh my...surely you jest. Crown Heights is the armpit of Brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 2:45 PM
CH is getting better with gentrification, though the crime rate remains high.
Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 3:53 PM
I really like that street
Posted by: Santa at March 8, 2008 5:34 PM
2:45: Neighborhoods in Brooklyn aren't "armpits" -- they're neighborhoods.
3:53: "Gentrification" is ok, as long as the people who've held Crown Heights together for years benefit.
5:34: I'm pretty sure it's Carroll Street near Brooklyn Avenue. (The photo's Flemish sky really makes it, doesn't it?) Nearby are even better looking blocks on Union and President Streets. Check them out. (Also visit the officially-designated landmark district around Dean Street, Bedford Avenue to Brooklyn Avenue and beyond -- now there's classic Brooklyn!)
NOP
Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 6:45 PM
Crown Heights is, always has been and always will be a losing proposition. To call it the armpit of Brooklyn is too charitable. It's more like the sphincter of Brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at March 8, 2008 7:37 PM
You'd think CH naysayers would want the neighborhood to succeed -- that is, if they actually live in Brownstone Brooklyn.
Park Slope, "Prospect Heights", Clinton Hill, Fort Green, and Crown Heights are pretty much continguous, and the desirability of each is dependent on the others.
I live on a "platinum" address that stretches for three miles in Manhattan. Each landmark district, individual landmark, and renovated or new building along it and its sidestreets increases its value.
It's the same in Brownstone Brooklyn. Instead of discouraging people from Crown Heights, posters like those above should be encouraging people to take a good look. If only in their self-interest.
NOP
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 2:06 PM
"If only in their self-interest."
Bingo. It can only because you're promoting your own self-interest that you'd talk up a cesspool like Crown Heights. Odds are you own property in the area and hope to hoodwink anyone and everyone about the nature of the neighborhood. Well, you're too late. Everyone already knows what a vile backwater Crown Heights is.
Hope this helps.
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 3:00 PM
NOP, who, from his address, has obviously done well in life, is a big booster for his childhood home. A neighborhood that is in most ways much changed from what he remembers, 50 - 60 years ago. Totally different population, different income levels, different culture, and different problems. Yet he still loves it, and on this blog has been a fierce supporter against those who have no agenda other than an ax to grind, for reasons I still don't understand.
I don't care if he owns half of CH. As far as I can tell from his posts, and I don't know him personally, he doesn't own anything here. Who cares? Why can't he, or I, or Bob Marvin in PLG, or Brownstoner in Clinton Hill write with pride about our neighborhoods? How can any of us be propping up our property values by comments on a blog? My one little house in Crown Heights, which I have no intention of selling in the forseeable future, is going to influence the hearts and minds of millions? Please. I should have that much power. If a man like NOP did have that kind of influence, CH would be a better place.
ALL neighborhoods have value. Value to those who live there, as our homes are the most expensive commodity any of us are likely to have, no matter how much or how little we paid. Value as the places we raise our families, places we spend our money, perhaps worship, streets we walk down every day, whether to go to work, or walk our dogs. Value as a community of fellow human beings with whom we interact, both good and bad. We are defined by our communities, whether good or bad. ALL of our neighborhoods have histories, every building, every park, every street was built and named for someone who was important in his/her time and place, for people to enjoy and prosper in. Nothing has changed in that respect.
Some neighborhoods, like Crown Heights, Clinton Hill and Bed Stuy, started out as upper middle class and wealthy enclaves, especially on certain streets, and like many neighborhoods all over the country, rose, fell, and are rising again, because they are beautiful, have easy access to transportation, and are being recognised as viable, desireable and worthy places to live. None of this hides or disguises that all of these places have social issues to be addressed, problems to be overcome, and may not be everyone's cup of tea.
The only vile backwaters here are the minds of those who cannot, for some inexplicable reason, live and let live. Who seem to have a mission in life to "educate" the masses on the horrors of life in these communities. People who are incapable of understanding that a pride and love of one's neighborhood encompasses the good and bad, the positive and negative. NOP is proud of Crown Heights. Good for him.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at March 9, 2008 3:46 PM
3:00:
Sorry to disappoint, but I don't own in Crown Heights, and never have. My family moved out in the early 1960's, so all I got was their Manhattan co-op.
I don't live in NYC, either, although I keep the family's apartment there, and I'm likely to be posting from places around the world.
I love New York and Brooklyn, though. A neighborhood with Eastern Parkway by Frederick Law Olmsted, a new Children's Museum by Raphael Vinoly, the Crown Heights North Historic District (with extensions on the way) and blocks of remarkably handsome architecture isn't a cesspool, sphinctre, or armpit. And it sure isn't vile.
On a recent visit to CH, I found it physically pretty much as I remembered, and with people going about ordinary neighborhood life: shopping, walking their dogs, waiting for the bus, watching their kids. (Folks like that deserve more respect than they get on Brownstoner. And it kind of makes me suspect the reasons behind naysayers' splenetic complaints.)
Sure it's in my self-interest that Crown Heights improve. As Brooklyn improves, the value of my Manhattan place goes up. If you live in Brooklyn, you should want Crown Heights to improve too.
NOP
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 3:47 PM
Thanks, Montrose.
Actually, people like you and Bob Marvin are change agents and, whether you think of yourselves this way or not, influential people.
By renovating your houses and providing examples to others, and by writing balanced commentary about your neighborhoods, "Brownstoners" are helped in making decisions that are moving Brooklyn forward.
Bob Marvin, I think, has been in PLG for a long time, and probably is best to judge how much the borough has grown. I can hardly believe it myself. There was a time when ALL of Brooklyn, including Park Slope, was written off. (I should know. My grand parents fled their brownstone on a "name" street in Park Slope in the 1930's because the neighborhood was "changing.")
NOP
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 4:11 PM
NOP, it's a losing battle to discuss such things around here. People who visit Brownstoner are too unsophisticated to understand that improvements in ALL areas of NYC improves property values for ALL residents.
It's just above their heads.
- signed, not a resident of Crown Heights, knowing that completely retarded accusation is what will be thrown out in response.
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 6:41 PM
Jesus Christ, Montrose. Must you recycle the same potted, verbose, tired sermon in every thread? If nothing else, take the time to improve your signal-to-noise ratio. Think of it as a courtesy to your readers.
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 9:05 PM
Crown Heights is a dump. It will remain a dump. It is just a crappy neighborhood. Period. There is no controversy and nothing to argue about. Crown Heights just sucks. End of story.
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 9:08 PM
As much as I agree with your point, you are wasting your breath, 9:05. Montrose Morris loves to hear him/herself talk and is inacapable of expressing a point succinctly. MM is also hypersensitive about CH and cannot let a negative statement go unanswered. That is why it is so much fun to needle him/her. This was true when he/she posted under the names of Brower Park and Crown Heights Proud.
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 9:38 PM
People who hate Crown Heights = bitter renters
Posted by: guest at March 9, 2008 10:03 PM
Glad you are having fun, 9:38. The fact that you take such joy in "needling" me means you have issues far larger than my verbosity. I hope you and your ilk get the much needed help you need, so you can join the human race.
Succinct enough for you?
Posted by: Montrose Morris at March 10, 2008 12:35 AM
Definitely a step in the right direction. Keep it up.
Posted by: guest at March 10, 2008 12:45 AM
Monty's a good egg. But it's late EST. And the CH debate is sure to continue another day.
NOP
Posted by: guest at March 10, 2008 1:23 AM
park slope used to be a shithole.
we'll see what happens.
Posted by: Santa at March 10, 2008 8:13 AM
I am a great fan of Montrose Morris and Bob Marvin because of the love that they have for their little piece of Brooklyn. I'm proud to own in Crown Heights North. CH may not be for everyone, but it doesn't mean that the neighborhood has to constantly be bashed. We are aware that it's not perfect, but it's far from being the cesspool that a previous poster decribed it to be.
There is no need to post statistics regarding the crime rate -- we know that crime exists as it does in many areas throughout the boroughs. The bottom line is that we love our neighborhood and we will continue to work together to improve every aspect of it because we're vested.
As far as the bashers are concerned, keep hating. At least we know that we'll never have such ignorance among us.
Posted by: faithful at March 10, 2008 10:10 AM
I love Crown Heights...although I do believe that enclaves like Carroll/Crown/President around Brooklyn should be distinguished separately from the rest of CH. Southern CH is nothing like it's northern twin.
...course I'm biased...
Posted by: moreteasir at March 10, 2008 12:21 PM
The place to be.
Posted by: guest at March 10, 2008 3:12 PM
Speaking as a pimp, a drug dealer and a murderer, I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
Posted by: guest at March 10, 2008 8:34 PM
8:34-
Wouldn't you prefer to be closer to our Princeton- and Harvard-educated governor, son of fabulously wealthy developers?
There's a client for at least part of your business (and I'm sure he could give you plenty of referrals).
And by the way, until he moved to Albany, he lived on the Upper East Side.
Posted by: guest at March 10, 2008 10:01 PM
Post a comment
Please be patient while your comment is published. It may take a moment.