Council Green-Lights Grand Street Rezoning

Good job, city! When is the cut-off date for foundations to be grandfathered to avoid the restrictions?

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 10:05 AM

brooklyn is full of undeveloped lots, theres no density problem and won't be for years. its a red herring.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 10:37 AM

It's a very good decision for Williamsburg. I don't think developers have environmentalism in mind when they're building these high towers, here and there in the city, with no regard for the previous character of the neighborhoods. This is good city planning. There are more than enough towers going up on the waterfront, near McCarren Park, and close to the Williamsburg Bridge. Let this part of the neighborhood remain low-rise.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 10:50 AM

Fix up the G train and connect it to Atlantic Terminal and the city will gain tons of accessible new vacant lots for development. There is plenty of space in this city, city officials and developers just need to get a clue.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/connect-the-g-train

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 11:05 AM

DONT connect the G-train- that will make it overcrowded!

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 11:24 AM

yep - ask the MTA NOT to connect the G - it will end up like the L, e-mail them at

http://mta-nyc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/mta_nyc.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 11:33 AM

Terrible decision - zoning decisions should never be retroactive. Once someone purchases the land with the cost based on the zoning they should be allowed to build based on that zoning. The idea of restricting development after the fact is horrible, the foundation-poured standard is horrible. Zoning changes should only affect properties purchased AFTER the zoning changes, never before. NYC definitely needs more housing, and the more multifamily housing you build, regardless of how environmentally friendly the building is, the better for the environment. The more people can afford to live in NYC rather than CT. NJ, upstate or long island the better for the environment overall. The NIMBY scourge is merely a ploy to raise property values, as is the whole landmarks boondoggle, and everyone who would LIKE to buy a house/apartment is subsidizing it. Blech NY

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 12:10 PM

Anyone who has taken a rush hour subway from Lorimer in the past 2 years knows that the area is getting seriously overcrowded. You can't just add density to neighborhoods without also building up infrastructure.

This is a great thing.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 12:40 PM

YO this is a downzoning not an UPZONING so all you fools on earlier comments just do not get it. The density was already approved for some time and was being built out. All this does is restrict property values and people who own homes and land and pay taxes accordingly in the Southside from getting the same as their Northside neighbors. This is not good for the area at all. And Connect the G to Atlantic avenue.

What is really screwed is some women did not want to lose her view blocked by the Karl F tower and now she and her gaggle got this approved and screwed the area. Whatever! it will come back to haunt her later. Abuse of NYC Charter!

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 12:56 PM

12:10 - I am for this, and I do not live in Williamsburg. There goes your "NIMBY scourge" argument

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 12:57 PM

the only people arguing for huge towers in a low-rise hood are developers and their cronies becuase they'll make more money out of it. End of story.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 1:03 PM

THAT IS BXLSHIT! Families who have lived in that area for decades make money out of it by selling to developers for much higher prices. And they deserve that right, they were there much longer than artists and hipsters and other whingers about their damn views of the City. Please you are like 6 blocks back from the Waterfront. There is nothing to preserve in that wasteland except Filmore Place and a couple of crappy rundown buildings here and there that no one maitains.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 1:12 PM

developers by land based on the square footage - they'll still be buying it. Don't be a dingbat.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 1:22 PM

retoractive is needed sometimes - the developer of the Finger on N7th broke countless rules and worked out of hours at breakneck speed to get a foundation poured because of the vote that he, and we, knew was coming. he broke the law in order to "legitimize" the ridiculous height he wanted -- and with a toothless DOB thats exactly what you can do, use the law when it suits you and pay some piddling fine when it doesn't

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 1:25 PM

Polemecist - the L line is already running near capacity in terms of number of trains. Upgrades will add one to two trains per hour, no more. And it will do nothing to solve the back up problems on the L line - there will still be only one track in each direction. Every time there is a delay, trains will back up behind, and no amount of automation will fix that. We are zoning for express service in an area that only has (and only ever will have) local service.

12:10 - Zoning is not retroactive. If it was, all of the properties that are overbuilt would have to be reduced to comply. All of the properties that are vested by way of pouring foundations are grandfathered under the old zoning (how do think Bayard Street came to be?).

WillBklyn - Grand Street east of the BQE is a wide zoning street, west of the BQE not. (Also more vintage siding out your way!). The J train is great, but a lot less convenient that Bedford/Lorimer on the L. (And unlike the L, the J can handle some express trains (east of Marcy), so there's a lot more room for expansion of service if needed.)

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 1:45 PM

I'm a NIMBY - that means its MY backyard, not yours, so F.O.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 1:55 PM

10 years time - when all the glass boxes will look passe and granite countertops in every "luxury" condo will be an embarrassing joke like 70's taste today?

yep, I bet vinyl shingles will make a comeback.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 2:21 PM

willbklyn - why not go and live in battery park city, sounds like you'd fit in great there.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 2:24 PM

I dont give a crap how much ridership is up on the L train - on Tuesday, I had to wait on the platform for about 45 minutes because the place was so packed. In the spring/summer, that happens maybe once a week. Once all those huge buildings are done, it will be way way worse.

I wonder how many of you posters spend considerable time in Williamsburg? If not, you have the luxury of debating this without any real personal stakes...

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 2:55 PM

I moved away from Billburg because of the L, it got my blood boiling. Now I live just as close to the city, and don't even notice the commute. I'm not telling YOU where I live tho. Last thing I need is more people here.

More hi-rise in that hood is crazy.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 3:02 PM

This is 12:10 again -

As far as I'm concerned, the grandfathering should be based on the zoning restrictions in place when the lot was purchased, since the zoning often determines the purchase price (and, no, it's not square footage alone - it's the FAR that matters). A developer (and no, I'm not one by a long shot) who pays say 10 million for a building with an FAR of 14 is going to be mighty pissed when the land is rezoned to 7 and he can no longer afford to build the building and has a $10 million mortgage to pay on a lot now worth something like 5 million. Expect lawsuits.

To 1:55 and 2:07 I lived out in East Williamsburg for a few years over 10 years ago, and I, along with many others who were eventually priced out made your dirty little backyard worth what it is today, so mind your manners.

L train overcrowding does suck, but your either part of the problem or part of the solution, no? Move a few stops farther out and you will get a seat coming in at least! Anyway, new building permits are down by 50%, so this probably won't be an issue in a year or two, and will last till the next boom cycle.

With much love,

Guest

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 3:21 PM

Yea, so a developer who pays money for land which suddenly get zoned form commerical to residential makes a killing. C'est la vie.

No cause of action there or here.

expect Lawsuits? Yea, because theres a bunch of lawyers out there only too happy to take your "case" even if it hasn't got a chance in hell. Go ahead, waste more money.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 3:27 PM

1:45 again - development is risky (as many people around the country are discovering). A lot of things can happen to a project - market fluctuations, construction delays, etc. It is not the responsibility of government to make development safe for all.

It is the responsibility of the Planning Commission to encourage AND manage growth.

In the long run, managing growth and making the city livable and workable will help real estate values. If you are in for the short flip, that doesn't matter, but if you are planning on living in a community, it should.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 4:45 PM

williamsburg is getting fucked up with all those luxury condos. overdevelopment and overcrowded on the L. just a fucking mess. i am fortunate to live in a nice quiet neighborhood on a train line that is not crowded.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 5:22 PM

Maybe if some of the developers were using quality materials and neighborhood-appropriate architecture I wouldn't care so much. I've watched so many high rises built with the same crap cinder blocks and Ikea appliances that I'll trade 'em for an 80-year-old building with faded--but quality--touches any day. Those guys have lasted almost a century. These new chopstick "luxury" condos will be crumbling within years.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 8:10 PM

All of these developers knew that the area was going to be rezoned, they tried to take advantage of a loophole, they gambled and lost. The RB6 rezoning did not come out of the blue, it's been in the works for years. Anyone who claiming they didn't know about it is either lying or was asleep at the wheel.
No one person was behind the rezoning initiative, it was a coalition of homeowners and renters who live in the area. I am one of the "gaggle" who worked on the rezoning project, a longtime resident and am quite relieved that at least the ugly buildings made of crap materials that these discount developers will throw up will now not be as tall thanks to the downzoning.

Posted by: guest at March 27, 2008 11:49 PM

Polemicist will only be happy when every square inch of the earth is covered by high rise housing, like in a science fiction novel. We will all watch movies of animals in the wild, and make wall paper of vast vistas of plains, hills and mountains, because there won't be any nature or open space left.

You always tout man's God given right to built to the sky wherever he pleases for some vague common good. Somehow I doubt if you'd like to live in the city of your devising. Sounds like hell.

Preservationista

Posted by: guest at March 28, 2008 1:41 AM

Hello "preservationists" "contexualized" zoning lovers, "gaggle" member who "worked" for this change ....

What do you think the developers are going to do with the huge parcels that they assembled? Build something beautiful?

If you a profit-hungry developer, the new zoning forces you to make bunker-like econo-dwellings with 8 foot ceilings. Or, if you are even more profit-hungry you will exploit the commercial development potential which the rezone INCREASED.

People fear a Starbucks in Williamsburg, this rezone let in the possibility of a Target. So all the people who think they are saving "the fabric" of the neighborhood, you were lied to and used. Your neighbors who are trying to build homes on 20 or 25 foot lots have lost everything. This is tragic.

Posted by: guest at March 29, 2008 5:08 PM

The issue here is that not even one resident, property or business owner ever received one letter to the numerous meetings that were supposedly "widely publicized". Not one letter that the rezoning would directly affect them. Instead, a handful of activists, including an architect that must have known it affected her friends, neighbors and everyone in the 11 of the 13 blocks never revealed the truth. Instead, they masked the rezoning and peddled it as the fix to stop the towers. In the process, they stripped the affected community from their due process. Now they want to label the average property owner (in most cases) a "small developers" to try and suggest this is not the community, but a group of developers with an agenda.

The growing group continues to be the actual residents, property and business owners of the community affected, including those that were deceived by the activists while under false pretense. You see, the group also opposed and continues to oppose towers in our community.

The solutions were plentiful, there was no reason to hurt the property values and businesses of our now affected community. Who knows what would have been the outcome, had only the people known the truth and been notified of to attend what turned out to be private meetings. Who knows? The problem was that our opinions, voices, votes, concerns, suggestions, hence due process was taken. This is the greater issue. Many questions and answers still remain, how could this happen? Were there people at CB1 or any politicians that facilitated this, or were they fooled also?

As for the many property and business owners that were hurt from these unscrupulous actions of the few that led the charge, we will help them in every way possible. The group will lend assistance to anyone that wants or needs help, even if they would have been for R6B had they known the truth. We are good neighbors that truly care about each other, not "greedy little developers". We need to promote our hard working class shop keepers and encourage everyone to patronize their businesses within the affected area. They work very hard to earn our business and conveniently provide us some of the many products and services we need. We need to keep them in business and encourage other entrepreneurs to invest and fill the vacancies to provide more products and services. Please help them help us.

I personally would like to ask everyone posting to please refrain from exposing peoples names and using unnecessary expletives. While I do not know what these self serving, deceitful and unscrupulous people deserve, I do know it's not in our hands to decide or inadvertently cause.

Dear readers and posters, all you have to do is ask any property or shop keeper within the affected community. They are wonderful people that will give it to you straight.

Posted by: guest at March 30, 2008 7:50 PM

"Your neighbors who are trying to build homes on 20 or 25 foot lots have lost everything. This is tragic."

Oh the drama. This is so not true. Go to the city planning site and read the stuff for yourself:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/grand_street/index.shtml

A quote from the report:
R6B permits residential and community facility uses to an FAR of 2.0. Base heights are required to be between 30 and 40 feet , and the maximum building height is 50 feet.

Posted by: guest at March 31, 2008 12:11 AM

"The issue here is that not even one resident, property or business owner ever received one letter to the numerous meetings that were supposedly "widely publicized"."

Please. First of all, the zoning change was initiated 2 1/2 years ago, and not by a "handful of activists", but by the community board and the city planning board.
The looming zoning change was public knowledge, which is exactly why so many were trying to skirt the law by hurriedly digging foundations in the middle of winter.
The 14 storey tower developer knew all about it, their lawyer was present at the city planning board hearing where our group requested that the rezoning be enacted sooner. So why didn't he tell any of you smaller developers sooner? Because he doesn't give a crap about you. He only rounded up the smaller developers when he realized he was losing his battle to beat the clock.
I *am* a property owner within the affected area and I am giving to you straight-R6B was the right decision for the community.

Posted by: guest at March 31, 2008 12:22 AM