The Times Cozies Up to Clinton Hill

Are these fabulous dwellings still single family homes?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 9:50 AM

Those houses are better than anything in you'll find in park slope. I'm not arguing that the neighborhood is better though.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 9:56 AM

well researched. apparently there's a library on Clinton Ave that no one else knows about.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:02 AM

I don't think there has ever been a 4 story brownstone in Clinton Hill that has sold for over 2 million.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:14 AM

Totally agree. These houses are so much more beautiful than anything you will find in Park Slope. And the wide streets give the neighborhood so much more light too.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:17 AM

In answer to 9:50's question, no, those houses aren't one families anymore. The brownstone one is broken up into high-end apts (coops, I think), and the white one is at least two apartments (also coops, if memory serves). Both beautiful, though the brownstone mansion was derelict for awhile and lost interior detail in the process. They're at the corner of Lafayette and Clinton.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:25 AM

The thing that got me about the article was how poorly researched it was in general. Even the image they used to lead it off—taken on Lafayette—was shot west of Vanderbilt. In other words solidly in Ft. Greene. And the mention of Ft. Greene Park and even the opening of Flea all in Ft. Greene.

I do like the fact that Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill share much of their respective communities, but if the Times wants to make artificial distinctions between the two by focusing on one or the other then it should be consistent about it and not refer SO much to Ft. Greene. Clinton Hill does have enough going on to fill out the space. Just lazy reporting. As usual.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:34 AM

i agree with you 10:34.

i have to say though...as an outsider...the article did not make me want to live in the neighborhood.

as someone looking to move to brooklyn, the way they describe the lack of amenities and the lack of trains and then those pricetags, i was like OH HELLZ TO THE NO.

i've done enough research to know those prices get you PRIME brooklyn.

they did a serious disservice to the neighbohood by overestimating the cost of housing.

3 million for clinton hill? is that for real?

i can get a townhouse on the best block in park slope for less right now. it's confusing for those looking to move, i would think.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:56 AM

Wow! Shahn Anderson finally said something I agree with. And I agree with it 100%. Way to go Shahn.
-Ella

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:57 AM

"Those houses are better than anything in you'll find in park slope. I'm not arguing that the neighborhood is better though."

the babies are beginning to compare genitalia again. Please somebody stroke their egos quick.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 10:59 AM

i'd just like to note that for once, the park slope folks are not starting the "who's neighborhood is better" crap.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:02 AM

I agree, 10.34, it was poorly researched...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:05 AM

Enough with the sour grapes and associated wishful thinking! These houses don't hold a candle to the better homes in Park Slope.

Not everyone can live in the Slope. If you'll just face this fact and get over it, you'll be much happier.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:09 AM

I think Clinton Hill is also attractive because of the wider streets that bring in more light as you walk down them. CH is a lovely area with its own feel. I think this area will be hard to get into within a few years...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:23 AM

"I think this area will be hard to get into within a few years..."

I think you need to get back to work and sell some houses.

Clinton Hill still has way too much crime, crappy schools and terrible train access.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:30 AM

11.09 - show us a picture then.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:31 AM

NEWS ALERT:

I just witnessed a shooting on my corner about an hour ago, Lexington and Classon. Young black man in black jacket and sock hat fired 4 rounds at another black male who was running East up Lexington (towards Bed-Stuy). Silver revolver, probably a .357 or .45. Got into a white late-model Toyota Corolla or something similar, driven by another black male in a sock hat.

I called the police and told them what I saw. There were 15 cops on the corner in under 10 minutes.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:37 AM

See - you can't get that sort of fun in PS.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:49 AM

That shooting took place yesterday, on Easter Sunday in the middle of the day.

What a lovely Easter Sunday in Clinton Hill.

But who cares about crime when you have nice, wide streets. Right, 11:23??

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:50 AM

most likly this was not a random shooting, and I'm glad no one was hit with a stray shot.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 11:58 AM

I care about crime, and PS crime is way lower than CH, but I'm still waiting for you to show a pic of a house in PS nicer than those shown above.

those houses look like a nice part of London.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:00 PM

Clinton Hill has Beautiful old houses.
That's about it. Oh, it's walking distance to Pratt Institute. The subway service is very very bad, perhaps that is why it is well preserved? The Times article said it is something like 60% African-American, and 15% Latin and Asian. That only leaves 25% for "other" i.e. White. Is that accurate? I thought the neib was more 50-50.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:02 PM

yes because the shooting has nothing to do with me 11:50

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:05 PM

yes because the shooting has nothing to do with me 11:50

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:07 PM

I can't find any info on this shooting... Is this all made up in the heads of the PS people... you guys really need to get a life and stay on the PS blog and write about Eden over there...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:11 PM

12:11:

the shooting was written about on the clinton hill blog.

bet you feel like a dumbass now.

believe it or not, we don't talk about clinton hill on the ps blog.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:13 PM

11.09 - still waiting for the pic...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:14 PM

12:13 needs to stay on the PS blog.. WE don't care about boring PS right now...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:27 PM

"Not everyone can live in the Slope. If you'll just face this fact and get over it, you'll be much happier."

And not everyone wants to live in the Slope. If you'll just face this fact, your entire sense of self-worth will be destroyed.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:27 PM

I think if people could afford it, MOST Brooklyn Brownstone lovers would indeed prefer to be in Park Slope.

The writer of the NYTimes piece certainly did.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:31 PM

no no 12:02
it's almost all black and black people are really scary
so please stay away

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:31 PM

Clinton Hill is indeed 60-70% black. and about 10% white.

It is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the race demographic of the United States.

As a white person, I don't see how that is living in a diverse neighborhood.

It's living in a black neighborhood, which is fine if that's your thing (it isn't for everyone and it doesn't mean you are racist if it's not for you) but people who claim Clinton Hill is diverse are just plain WRONG.

It is a black neighborhood first and foremost. Nothing really too diverse about it.

Ironically, it is one of the LEAST diverse areas of Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:39 PM

funny I see about 15% of the people that get on the train at Washington Ave are black. I rarely see black people in Clinton Hill anymore....

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:48 PM

look harder, 12:48.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:52 PM

I've lived in CH for over 12 years. Went to Pratt for grad school and stayed ever since. I've always felt safe but it really depends where you live (Clinton/Washington stop vs Classon). The neighborhood is beautiful, quiet, and has a good mix of artist and professionals. I've seen lots of changes in 12 years and it's just getting better.

As much as it's a stretch to compare CH to Parks Slope, the info in the article is outdated. I can get into Manhattan in less than 20 minutes in the morning (try that on the PS 7th Ave F-train) and when I was looking to buy late last year, I couldn't find too many 2 bedrooms at $500/sq ft. Wish they'd talked to a few more locals.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 12:58 PM

If Clinton Hill weren't dangerous, there would not be an iron fence surrounding the entire campus of the Pratt Institute.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:00 PM

I think those are Bedford Stuyvesant race demographics. Clinton Hill is more like 50/50 it seems to me... with more whites are closer to the Ft. Greene end and near Franklin and Fulton but blacks in the north end of the area

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:02 PM

you're a genius 1:00. you do realize that anyone is free to walk onto the campus.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:11 PM

The article could have said more about the area and kept talking about Ft. Greene. The article needed more work before it got printed.

Brownstoner: Any posting on that stupid article in the City section of the Times by that asshat Toure? Would love to get feedback on that lame piece of crap.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:13 PM

I'm still waiting for someone to post a pic of a park slope house better than those in the story here.

if these houses WERE in PS, they'd be astronimically priced.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:19 PM

Pratt has many buildings outside that fence that was put up over 30 years ago...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:19 PM

There are very few White families living east of Clinton Avenue. Fort Greene is now about 60-40 (Black-White) Clinton Hill is predominantly Black, I would guess 80-20. Many of the Black families are middle class and the ones who own their houses are by that very fact, millionaires. That is not to say you won't see some scary dudes, there are lots of them around too. It isn't Disney World, y'know?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:19 PM

Where do you get your stats, 1:19? Personal observation?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:28 PM

"funny I see about 15% of the people that get on the train at Washington Ave are black. I rarely see black people in Clinton Hill anymore"

Is this a joke?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:32 PM

the architecture school is outside the gate and Pratt has a school on W 14 street in Manhattan

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:41 PM

11.09 - your silence is deafening

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:55 PM

I think 1:02 has the racial breakdown correct. The census data from 2000 - which is incredibly old - doesn't support such a large number of blacks in Clinton Hill, i.e. 80%.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 1:59 PM

I'm from Park Slope and I've never seen a home like this. You can smoke your cigarette now 1:55. The Pratt family had a lot of money and proximity to manhattan was just as important back in the day as it is now.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:04 PM

i think the montauk club building on lincoln place and 8th avenue in park slope is more beautiful than these buildings.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:11 PM

The psychopath asking about pictures is starting to scare me.

If you don't have enough pride in your own neighborhood to like it without needing pictures of homes in Park Slope to compare, you really need to see someone.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:24 PM

The simple fact is that architecturally these houses (and others in Clinton Hill) beat PS to the post. No-one will post any pics because theres no houses that are that good.

That said, PS is by far the better hood.

The Montauk club is not comparable, its not a house.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:28 PM

In my Clinton Hill building, about 50% of people are white, 50% black or "other". We're a white family living in Clinton Hill, and there are more than a "very few" of us... how silly. I like Park Slope, and could have chosen to live there (am not priced out), but I personally like Clinton Hill better. Amenities are better in Park Slope, and I sometimes go to stores there. I just like the people who live here and the atmosphere in Ft. Greene/ Clinton Hill better. There are many people who feel this way, and many people who justifiably like what Park Slope has to offer, whatever that is (just kidding).

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:34 PM

I moved to a city to live an urban-liftestyle.

And by that I mean living within a short walking distance to shops, restaurants, grocery stores, banks, gyms and cultural amenities.

I did not move here to live in a satellite community, where I must travel by car, bus and plane to get some nice produce.

Paying large sums of money to live near a train that does not go to Manhattan seems absurd to me if you were not priced out of ones with better amenities and transportation.

The people will change. The vibe changes all the time. If you are plunking down millions of dollars though, I need a little more substantial info than "i like the people there"

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:39 PM

The article says CH co-ops and condos are "averaging about $500 per square foot" but I would be *delighted* to see such prices. Many of the newer condo 1-bdrms are no larger than 600 sf, which means they should cost $300k by those stats--not happening. Anyone seeing 500/sf prices?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:40 PM

If you have a car to park, live in CH.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:40 PM

I've seen prices tumble in Clinton Hill over the past year.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 2:48 PM

The real estate agents keep pushing the boundries of what Clinton Hill emcompances. Soon it will include Bushwick. As for CH proper I've yet to see prices fall, just rise. A 10 minute walk to the express trains at Dekalb or Atlantic Ave is not a satellite community. How about all those West Chelsea condos rising on 10th and 11th Ave at $1000/square foot?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:07 PM

"I think those are Bedford Stuyvesant race demographics. Clinton Hill is more like 50/50 it seems to me... with more whites are closer to the Ft. Greene end and near Franklin and Fulton but blacks in the north end of the area"

Thank you for this very scientific survey of race.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:10 PM

"How about all those West Chelsea condos rising on 10th and 11th Ave at $1000/square foot?"

they have a 1 block walk to chelsea market and about 1000 other amazing things within 2 blocks.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:22 PM

"They have a 1 block walk to chelsea market and about 1000 other amazing things within 2 blocks."

Do you mean all the taxi garages?

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:47 PM

Why do Brownstoners feed on each other?

What's good for Clinton Hill is good for Park Slope is good for Fort Greene is good for Crown Heights, etc.

Some weekend, take a long walk, circling from Brooklyn Heights to Cobble Hill, Red Hook, the Slope, Prospect-Lefferts, Crown Heights, Clinton Hill and Fort Greene and places in-between (plenty of good spots to rest, drink, and eat along the way!). Take in a set of the handsomest city neighborhoods anywhere in the country, and see how they complement one another.

Then stop the bickering and work for the betterment of Brooklyn.

Sheesh!

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:52 PM

ft. greene is diverse. not clinton hill

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:53 PM

Why do Brownstoners feed on each other?

What's good for Clinton Hill is good for Park Slope is good for Fort Greene is good for Crown Heights, etc.

Some weekend, take a long walk, circling from Brooklyn Heights to Cobble Hill, Red Hook, the Slope, Prospect-Lefferts, Crown Heights, Clinton Hill and Fort Greene and places in-between (plenty of good spots to rest, drink, and eat along the way!). Take in a set of the handsomest city neighborhoods anywhere in the country, and see how they complement one another.

Then stop the bickering and work for the betterment of Brooklyn.

Sheesh!

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:53 PM

I did that last weekend, 3:53!!!!!

But when I got to Clinton Hill, there was no where to pee, no place to eat and no where to drink!!!

I ran through it and thank god made it to Prospect Heights where I felt like I was back in civilization again!

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 3:56 PM

I guess in PH you eat, piss and drink in the street.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:02 PM

All those places on Myrtle and Fulton to eat and pee and you could not find one.. give me a break

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:04 PM

satellite community? these posts getting weirder and weirder. if you move to an area because you like the deli's, so be it. i moved to CH b/c it is beautiful, interesting, close to manhattan (I have walked many times, ride my bike often, and take the g with no issues daily to work.) the architecture is amazing, and it is wonderfully diverse - and I mean americans, europeans, south americans, black white asian etc - and most importantly, mixed race couples and kids - which is the future. wouldnt live anywhere else in ny.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:04 PM

"All those places on Myrtle and Fulton to eat and pee and you could not find one.. give me a break"

The only places I saw fit to pee in CH were brick walls. But most of those on Myrtle and Fulton were already taken...

"and most importantly, mixed race couples and kids"

Sorry...was this sentence for real? most importantly???? says who?

And that's great that you take the G to work.

Some of us work in Manhattan though.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:08 PM

"I guess in PH you eat, piss and drink in the street."

Nope, found a great bar on Vanderbilt. New one called Weather Up at Dean. Really terrific place and very slick interior.

Then had a lovely dinner at Noona.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:10 PM

I actually prefer the G train. I live in Williamsburg and work in East Midtown, and take the G to the 7 train, it's alot faster than taking the L and 4 train.

The MTA website also has a new feature, similar to Hopstop, but it ties into the schedule of the train. So you don't have to wait anymore!!

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:12 PM

Just read that the new service planned for the G train which was supposed to go into effect now has been DELAYED until further notice.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:23 PM

G is good for getting to manhattan, just change at court sq. for the 7 or the V or E. Better than the L, which unless you work on 14th st. you'd need to change in manhattan with anyway.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:30 PM

The G seems to be getting better every year when I was a kid in the 80s it was like one train per hour... The G with get better in time... It would be nice if it stopped at Atlantic ave...

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:37 PM

"There are very few White families living east of Clinton Avenue."

I live on the CH side of Classon ave, and i think it's very mixed. I don't do race surveys but it's no more than 60% white or black. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:47 PM

Clinton Hill is a predominently black neighborhood.

Accept it and move on.

4:47. you actually have no idea what you are talking about. "no more than 60% white or black"?

what the hell does that mean?

It is certainly AT LEAST 60% black.

Maybe 20% white. MAX.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 4:59 PM

I agree. 4:12's mta website comment was the best thing said on this overly long thread.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 6:24 PM

I agree. 4:12's mta website comment was the best thing said on this overly long thread.

Posted by: guest at March 24, 2008 6:35 PM

no, don't want the G stopping at Atlantic. that would screw it up.

Posted by: guest at March 25, 2008 8:29 AM

I hate the Park Slope vibe. Yes, Clinton Hill is seedier, the restaurants are fewer and farther between, and (gasp) there are black people. But, goddamn, the holier than thou vibe of PS is just so...off putting. But yet I am grateful that the Park Slopers and the Manh-assholes haven't discovered Clinton Hill...so piss on our brick walls and keep walking towards the Slope. We like it that you're scared of the neighborhood -- keeps the real undesirables out.

Posted by: guest at April 5, 2008 11:55 PM