REBNY: Brooklyn Apt. Appreciation Tops Boros in ’07

anecdotal evidence from my co-op: (north slope, 7th avenue) Bought my apartment last winter for $360k. unit above (same everything) in contract for $425k this winter. thats 18%

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 9:45 AM

here's another for you...also a co-op in the north slope...a studio...bought mine for 250K in 2006 and sold it in November 2007 for 339K.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 10:43 AM

Bought a 1 family house in prime Madison section (bedford ave) of Brooklyn in Aug 2005. Since then value went down 1% as per zillow.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 10:44 AM

another anecdotal observation: price chops on many brooklyn condos in 08. in prime areas - check natefind. there is a "triplex" on N. 7th that they have cut twice already. it is now only 10k above the sale price in 06. yikes. good call #1 and #2, you got out at the top!

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 10:50 AM

North Brooklyn...including Williamsburg is totally saturated. Prices there have been and will continue to go down.

Same with parts of Crown Heights, Bed Stuy and Bushwick.

The prime areas like Park Slope, Ft. Greene, Brooklyn Heights, etc. will continue to hold their value.

Look...even if these first two posters DIDN'T sell last year, clearly they'd still have a lot of equity in their homes, because the prices went up so much since they bought that there's no way they wouldn't AT LEAST break even were they to sell right now.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 10:56 AM

Streeteasy is also showing lots of price chops, even in prime areas. I attribute this more to crazy overpricing in general, rather than to a slowing market.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:01 AM

That place was way overpriced from the start. I hope the owner and corcoran choke on it.

there is a "triplex" on N. 7th that they have cut twice already.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:03 AM

10:56 - why, because you said so? where is your data? sorry, but it's B.S.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:09 AM

661 carroll in the primest of park slope just got an 8% cut on the last remaining unit. how you determine the difference between true chops and just bringing down insane pricing is a blurry line. i would point out that they moved 7 units before the credit freeze at the seemingly "insane" pricing that they just chopped. it's happening and not just in williamsburg...

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:10 AM

just because times have changed a little in the housing market, 11:10 does not mean that EVERY property that does not sell is because of the mortgage meltdown.

maybe that carroll street one that's left was the crappiest of the bunch, thus the reason why all the others sold?

that makes more sense to me than suggesting that all the sudden buyers have dried up.

if you check out a few open houses this sunday, you will realize that CERTAINLY is not the case. i almost see a sense of urgency in seeing people's eyes as they pass real estate offices on 7th avenue...looking to get in while they think we are at a low point.

EVERYONE is nervous that all the sudden they will wake up, the economy will be healthy again and prices will be going back up.

it's palpable. people who never considered buying are considering it now because they know that if they want to stay in nyc long-term the really only way to be stable and not have to succumb to a life of moving or rent increases is to buy property.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:18 AM

11:09...well since you provided so much data to the contrary, i suppose we should take your word for it, also?

pot.

kettle.

black.

ultimate.

hypocrite.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:19 AM

11:18 - 661 is a complete brownstone gut refurb. all units are new and identical.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:27 AM

So none have more stairs...none have more light than another, none have a better layout, better view, on the first floor?

I find that VERY hard to believe.

I personally found the layout of the kitchen and living room completely unacceptable in the remaining unit.

And I also happen to think the finishes looked a little cheap.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:30 AM

sense of urgency my a**. urgency to get into negative equity...

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:32 AM

559 is next door (identical building) and was developed the exact same way by the same developer. absolutely identical unit on the same floor sold in august for the "insane" price 8% above the new chop. view is not really a factor as you wouldn't buy a floor-through in a brownstone in this area for views. floorplans are the same on all units. this is an ultimate comp and the people who bought these in the summer are already under water. you can't talk your way out of this one. it's an observable price chop in prime brooklyn, pure and simple.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:39 AM

actually they are only "underwater" as you say if they plan to sell, which i'm guessing most if not all don't plan to do for quite some time.

MOST of us here bought a home to live in for a long time.

keep renting though. you'll do ok one day.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:47 AM

Hi, North Slope/7th Ave. sale at $425K. What's your square footage? What floor was the $425K on? I'm trying to price a 4th floor (attic) floor through in a 7th Ave./North Slope property and parlor floor in same. (builidng size 20 x 45).

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:55 AM

wow 11:47, that's an original put-down. never seen that one before. that's your best response to actual indisputable data?zing.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:01 PM

How about a 650SQFT, Fire Place, Souther Exposure, Exposed Brick, North Slope, b/w sixth and seventh, Lincoln Place. New everything. How much?

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:16 PM

12:15:

how many bedrooms? 1 bath?

you left off the most important things.

if a 2 bedroom/1 bath, i'd say 699K for a quick sale.

1 bedroom....550K.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:29 PM

hey 12:01, this is the first poster. the $425K is a one bedroom, 600'sq, 3rd floor north exposure. old kitchen but in nice building reno'd in the 80's with elevator. there was also a unit of the same line but fully renovated that sold i think for $460 about a month ago in the same building on the top floor.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:31 PM

right. $1,075 per sq. ft. in non ps 321 is going to be a quick sale... try $450-460k (bedroom count doesn't matter - at 650 ft, it's a 1br or studio no matter what). that's ~$700 per ft. and still maybe a stretch. 12:29 is a broker who wants the listing. take his pricing and you will languish. take my pricing (not a broker), which if too low (which i doubt), will spur a bidding war and let the market decide. otherwise try 500k and get ready for some lowball offers.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:38 PM

It's completely pointless to base anything off of a price chop precisely because you don't know if the reduction was due to market downturn or simply an overinflated price to begin with. It's very easy to tell where the market is based on actual sales; in fact its the only way. Corcoran does it, REBNY does it, as do others. There's just no need to bring price cuts into the mix because it adds another variable that is basically meaningless

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:46 PM

12:38...

You are a little out of touch with the market.

I just told you I sold a studio (ONE block away from here) for 339K. It's 300 sf.

You are suggesting someone selling something more than twice this size should sell for 450?

I don't think so.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:47 PM

Um, does anyone realize that average prices are completely meaningless?

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:52 PM

12:47. you are actually a little out of touch. per 12:46, who is also wrong b/c the chop is comp-based, just look at truly recent sales in the area. 699k is the going rate for something closer to 900 sq. ft, 2br. that is 700-800 per ft give or take. i know this because i live in the area and attend many open houses. maybe recent sales can go as high as 750k for something exceptional. anything higher languishes. throw in the recession and i see more downward pressure. if you sold in Nov, that is not "recent" enough. plus your place would be conforming, thus with a lower rate and easier to get. the market has changed old man. take your sweet sweet profits and put them somewhere else. this horse is dead.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 12:57 PM

12:57 - the NYC market has not meaningfully moved since Nov 2007. NYC housing market is just too insulated from that of the rest of the nation, it just is. And if you want to base your theory of market direction on price chops, so be it. The fact is you can't do it. A reduction, even if compared to an identical property next door, has too many variables. Was it originally priced too high? What were the motivations of the seller? How about the buyer? You just can't tell. The only way to do this is look at actual sales. Further to your comment on conforming mortages, with the economic stimulus plan set in increase the cap to $700K plus, the NYC market will be further supported.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:11 PM

A lot of people don't seem to realize that we are in the slowest time for real estate right now.

Although it's been mild, it is still THE MIDDLE OF THE WINTER!

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:20 PM

1:11. ok, i will accept your point. let's look at it based on actual sales. the identical unit in every way next door (659) sold for 8% higher than the new chopped price. the chopped and cheaper unit hasn't moved, so it may still be priced too high. i think you are seeing my logic... prices are coming down. btw, the raised conforming caps are not a shoo-in and even if they pass, the GSEs are under-capitalized now which means little demand for > $417k loans regardless of caps.
regarding market prices, a 300 ft. studio could maybe sell for closer to $1000 per ft. b/c it's bite-sized. you can't take that price per ft and scale it for a 1br or bigger. just face it, the data are against you. not sure why you have an axe to grind. i'm citing facts and being logical and you're pulling things out of your a** and resorting to personal attacks. it's clear you are either under water and need to sell or you are a broker. otherwise, this would be a pointless conversation. there is nothing wrong with a price correction. learn to love it...

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:29 PM

so first there is a "sense of urgency" and now it's "the dead of winter". wow.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:33 PM

1:29....btw i'm not the same guy so there is more than one person here who disagrees with you.

just so you know.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:38 PM

Neither a broker or underwater, but I concede I am a homeowner. Nor did I think I made any personal attacks. And obviously you can't simply scale up the $ sq/ft for a studio to that of a larger apartment. Is anyone saying that you can?

Your 661 Carrol vs 559 analysis if fine. To be honest I know nothing of the development. Is the unit still for sale by the developer or is it a post-offering sale? I'd argue that this makes a difference. I don't see how the data are against me given every report I've seen says prices are up. We'll get a better sense of the 1st quarter in a few months.

I don't know whether you are a renter or not. But for any renters out there, I honestly would not be waiting for a big correction in the NYC market. If you're ready to buy a home and see one that you love, make an offer. Just don't wait on the sidelines for the market to crash, because its not going to happen. I feel for you having to write rent checks to a black hole every month and getting nothing in return.

Also, the conforming cap increase is a done deal. Its already baked into the plan. And to say that a higher cap won't favorably impact those rates is ridiculous. It simple supply and demand

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:50 PM

bad kitchen layout with little counter space and no bar is the reason the unit isn't selling.

even the broker told me that.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 1:55 PM

I bought my Brooklyn Heights 1 bedroom for 410k in May 06 and sold it for 545k this month. A Corcoran broker priced it nice and high for me.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 5:11 PM

My friend just sold a pre-war condo in the North Slope for $1000+ psf. If it's a great property in a prime location, it will sell.

Posted by: guest at February 1, 2008 11:40 PM