525 Clinton Avenue Fallout: Rats and Findings of Fault

THE UNION IS DEAD!!!! They are not there for safety. They are only there to provide jobs to cronies who live outside the city.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 11:45 AM

Why would anyone build this Clusterfuck!! It's so out of place on this block. Future Affordable Housing!! LMMFAO

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 11:46 AM

Agree with 11:45. Unions are obselete.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 11:56 AM

Was the Shangri-La union built?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:00 PM

Dear Moron Union Haters:
The non-union fool is DEAD! He killed himself by doing dangerous work without getting the proper training! He sold out his family by accepting substandard wages. He sold himself out and paid the ultimate price.

The developer should be held accountable. He tripped over himself trying to save a few nickels and hopefully this tragic accident will cost him way more than the money he was taking out of the pockets of trained, professional union labor.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:09 PM

hope the next underpaid illegal alien to fall to his death doesn't hit you on the head, 11:45 and 11:56.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:11 PM

"the Local 79 organizer tending the rat from the comfort of his pick-up truck."

Say "Hey" to Paulie for us!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:23 PM

"Granted, many of the trade unions are now bloated with cronyism, racism, sexism, and self service in the head offices"

the only part of your post that I agree with.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:26 PM

MM = spot on.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:39 PM

If the unions are not allowing more workers to join mostly because they don't want hispanic and caribbean workers then they should be SHUT DOWN. It's illegal to do that, period.

There are other options to helping illegal workers if people cared to do so. Sites where illegal workers are working without sufficient protective gear and equipment should be picketed. Stand outside the realty office selling those condos and hand out flyers to people who enter, telling them somebody died at this building and the workers were not provided with a safe work environment due to developer's cost-cutting.

Hitting somebody's profits is the only way things get done in this country. It's all about the money. Talking to them about ethics gets you nowhere.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 12:46 PM

THE DOB IS AN OBSOLETE USELESS MURDERING MACHINE.

From MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, we hired a fantastic exterior company to do our brownstone work; small, family owned, non union. They worked for six months without any incidents; at least ten guys on the job. EACH GUY HAD A PERMIT TO BE ON THE SCAFFOLDS. They each wore harness, hard hats, etc.... The owner of the company told me during this time that he was constantly getting summonses on other jobs for stooopid shit like "the (2-step step) ladder was sideways, not front to the (2 foot) wall"-- $10,000 fine. The owner was trying to fight the DOB but basically, the inspectors know where they get their money: the little jobs, the little companies.Going after a big construction company doesn't reap as much profit, per visit, per court case.)

On the other hand, my family is in construction management. My father works with unions all the time, and in general likes it because the jobs are run tighter. However, the couple of tragedies he's experienced came from Bovis, a huge construction company (Union). And I'm not even talking about the firemen who died at the ground zero site.

It has SO MUCH MORE to do with how cities inspect and how they try to profit from construction. NY DOB is a KILLLER.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:05 PM

THE DOB IS AN OBSOLETE USELESS MURDERING MACHINE.

From MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, we hired a fantastic exterior company to do our brownstone work; small, family owned, non union. They worked for six months without any incidents; at least ten guys on the job. EACH GUY HAD A PERMIT TO BE ON THE SCAFFOLDS. They each wore harness, hard hats, etc.... The owner of the company told me during this time that he was constantly getting summonses on other jobs for stooopid shit like "the (2-step step) ladder was sideways, not front to the (2 foot) wall"-- $10,000 fine. The owner was trying to fight the DOB but basically, the inspectors know where they get their money: the little jobs, the little companies.Going after a big construction company doesn't reap as much profit, per visit, per court case.)

On the other hand, my family is in construction management. My father works with unions all the time, and in general likes it because the jobs are run tighter. However, the couple of tragedies he's experienced came from Bovis, a huge construction company (Union). And I'm not even talking about the firemen who died at the ground zero site.

It has SO MUCH MORE to do with how cities inspect and how they try to profit from construction. NY DOB is a KILLLER.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:05 PM

Sorry about the double post.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:10 PM

Generally, the carpenters represent workers in the scaffolding industry - Local 1536 represents employees working for Regional, UBS, Atlantic, etc. While the NYCDC of C has some problems, I think you will find that most of the members of Local 1536 are pretty satisfied with their union and their representation. It's one the most dangerous construction jobs in the city (see ironworking as well) and I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who actually does scaffolding for a living who thinks they are safer on a non-union job. Just my opinion.....

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:18 PM

"Stand outside the realty office selling those condos and hand out flyers to people who enter, telling them somebody died at this building and the workers were not provided with a safe work environment due to developer's cost-cutting."

"Paulie" is not going to like this!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:33 PM

The Fifth Avenue Committee uses non-union labor on their affordable housing sites.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:46 PM

If non union workers were properly trained, properly compensated, and properly prepared with safety precautions, it would cost the same to hire them as union workers.

Of course sleazy developers aren't going to offer them training, or protect their interests. It would be easier and probably cheaper to just go Union. But then they wouldn't be sleazy.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:53 PM

Here's hoping everyone gets hit with a massive fine: developer, general contractor, and sub-contractor alike. Accountability!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:30 PM

What about the 2 firefighters who died at the Deuthche Bank building or the Trump Soho building??? those construction companies were full union.

It just shows that there's an element of risk no matter the circumstances are. In construction, the odds are that there will be deaths at some point in time. It's no different than driving a car.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:18 PM

To the open-shop hater:

It was the windiest day in the past couple of years, and the wind could care less if you're a card carrying member and pay your dues... wish you where on that rooftop that day...

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:41 PM

Unions are obsolete. They rip off the members with unjustifiable dues which get the workers nothing. Union wages, which are padded by bogus costs, artifically inflate the cost of production. Let the market determine the price, not the mob.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 7:53 PM

In response to 7:53 -

My carpenter dues are about $60 per month. For this, I get representation, steady employment, safety training, classes at the hall, over $40 per hour in wages (straight time) plus an annuity invested in a 401(k), a traditional pension, a supplemental pension, health and dental insurance and about 4 weeks vacation pay. My dues are more that justifiable - it's a downright bargain! They run about $15 per week or 1.5 % of my take home pay.

As far as whether my union is obsolete? Since when is preserving the middle class obsolete?

And, as to your comment that my wages are padded by bogus costs - theyre padded by benefits, something every worker is entitled to and certainly not bogus.

Live Better...Work Union.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 8:55 PM

The only problem, 8:55, is that a lot of union members never see their pensions.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 9:25 PM

The age of Malinvestment. Keep building Condos!! Build build build!! Build places that no one can afford. Keep loaning money to people that can't pay it back. Keep fraud going in our financial markets. Just keep the bullshit going.

When it blows up maybe, just maybe things can go back to normal.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 9:41 PM

9:25,

More union members live to see their pensions than non-union members in this industry. For all of the reasons stated by 8:55. If God forbid 8:55 were hurt or worse killed on the job, her husband, children or significant other would get her substantial benefits. What do non-union illegal immigrants get? Not even enough money to get shipped back home for burial.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 12:05 AM

The union haters resent unions only because they mistakeny think unions make things more expensive for THEM.
The cost of living in a world where people who actually produce something are exploited mercillesly (like the scaffolding victim), is that they rebel, and you end up with a dictatorship.
Unions are part of the free market and of a free society.
You union bashers need to develop a sense of gratitude for the working men and women who make your life of idle privilege possible.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 1:14 AM

Union workers are employed by the "idle privilege"d, so they better get a grip.

Manual labor is cheap. Trying to preptend that your "skill" is worth as much as you get paid is the reason building costs are so high.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 10:21 AM

10:21 = soft handed neocon who'd shit his pants if he ever had to... anything.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 10:30 AM

Dear 10:21

I don't have to pretend anything. My skill is worth what I get paid. That's how the free market works.
The reason building costs are so high is because silver spoon dilitantes don't care how much they pay to gratify themselves.
By the way - slavery was abolished in this country.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 11:01 AM

manual labor is cheap. unions inflate the true price of labor.

10:30: not only is that not true, it implies all economists are neocons. Perhaps you are shitting your pants because you know that union labor does not imply better service or quality and that they do, in fact, inflate the cost of doing business.

11:01: you are overpaid. If some non-union person can do you job with the same quality and efficiency as you and get paid less, then you are over paid. And don't try that line that union workers give you better quality. They don't.

If unions didn't have the mafia behind them scaring developers with physical harm, no one would use you.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 12:16 PM

Nice shot! A day in the life of 'The Rat'.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 12:39 PM

Dear 12:16:

Time and time again studies show that when it comes to construction - UNION LABOR produces better quality and is MORE PRODUXTIVE than the work performed by our non-union counterparts. I know you want to believe we're all old, fat and lazy but we actually work very hard, every day, building this city. Contractors realize they pay us well and they do not tolerate bullshit on jobsites!

While unions inflate the cost of doing business the increases are attributed to decent wages and benefits! Corporation increase the cost of doing business for profits, which is fine, but not nearly as noble. I suppose you don't think workers are entitled to these things but I do and they cost money.

We are not overpaid. We work hard and we build a better product. Developers are making handsome profits - we're just here to get our fair share.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 3:49 PM

3:49: Were those studies financed by the unions? (That was a rhetorical question.)

Union workers are overpaid because, without the influence of the mob, your skill set is not so unique that it justifies a higher wage.

Why do you comment on being old, fat and lazy? Why do you comment that you work hard? I never said that or even thought it. No one said that about union labor except for you, but it is very telling that you mentioned it. You become rather transparent when questioned.

And at what point are you entitled to the profit of a development? Unless you are willing to put your money into the mix as an investor, you have no right to the profits. You are hired labor. What part of that did you miss?

Honestly, I think your post simply bolsters the argument that you are overpaid for what you do and you are simply trying to justify an unjustifiable position.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 9:41 PM