Open House Picks

Crap!

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:36 PM

Wait a minute! Reasonably priced homes? *gasp* What's going on here?

...ohh wait I see. No Corcoran listings. That explains it.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:41 PM

Wonder if the price reduction and brokerage switch (both Warren Lewis and BHS have it now) will do it for 282 Dekalb.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:46 PM

I like all these homes

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:46 PM

finally "affordable" housing...

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:51 PM

Dekalb is nice. Kitchen needs updating but that's not hard. Too bad I'm all doom and gloom about the market (yeah right, I couldn't afford it anyway).

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:52 PM

Not bad for Bushwick.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:54 PM

Is the Macdonough street house in the historic district? I love this Street. I always wanted to live in The Historic area of SH.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 1:58 PM

I love the Bushwick house it is special. Very very good.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:03 PM

Linden Street listing says it's a "Charming legal two family" but the floorplans indicate it is set up as 3 apartments. What gives?

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:07 PM

I love the Bushwick area. Its very very nice. Much better value than any of the other areas.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:09 PM

Linden Street: cute. Being used as an illegal three family?

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:10 PM

282 Dekalb is asking 840/sf. Is this in line with comps for the area? I don't really know the CH market.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:10 PM

All look pretty good. reasonably priced

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:13 PM

since when are these prices affordable housing?

crappy homes in crappy brooklyn

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:15 PM

one has to be pretty adventurous to want to live in bushwick.

good for a couple, but i would hesitate to raise kids there.

the price, however reflects the location. perfect for a young couple.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:19 PM

The Dekalb house is unique: I dig the side windows and all that light. Could be made gorgeous. Though it's really much more suited to a one-family set up than a two. That's a bummer if you need the rental income. Also Dekalb is heavily trafficked with noisy buses going by. Yeh, yeh, I know this is NYC but most buyers would still prefer a side street if they had the choice.

What's with the Linden St/Bushwick comments? "Very very good." "Very very nice." Come on Ms/Mr Broker -- aren't you being a little too obvious?

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:30 PM

DeKalb: oh noes, recessed lighting!!!!!!!1

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:43 PM

Is the DeKalb house a Montrose Morris house? Think I heard once that it was.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:54 PM

dekalb is 500K overpriced.

nice house, but once again...clinton hill is not a 2 million dollar neighborhood yet.

sorry. don't care how nice the house is.

we are going back to the old rules...location, location, location.

not just buy whatever overpriced house you can get your hands on.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:54 PM

I really like the Bushwick house. Very very good. Very very nice. It has extraordinary charm and value for the price. Very very nice.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 2:56 PM

I love the macdonough street house. seems to have a lot of wood details.. very Victorian.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:06 PM

Is there an native Italian liking the Bushwick house on this thread?

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:12 PM

Macdonough street is nice only kinda strange block is macdonough twn Tompkin and Marcy. That block is not as nice as the other MacDonough blocks.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:14 PM

Hey dummies have a nice weekend!!

The What

Someday the war is gonna end..

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:15 PM

Bedford Stuyvesant seems to be nicer in the south part of the area

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:15 PM

Bushwick! Now that's a spicy townhouse!

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:16 PM

dekalb will sell quickly at that price. Plenty of higher comps in the surrounding blocks

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:16 PM

What a dismal house on 8th Street. If I bought a property like that it would be a total gut to become a completely modern interior. I'd knock out the back and make it all glass. That's all you can do with a crap tenement rental building where all the original detal was removed. It's a $2 million house after all that work. Not $1.4 million.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:28 PM

ummm...3:16....the dekalb house has been on the market for about 8 months.

you call that selling quickly?

the "comps" you speak of were pre-housing market crash.

if it's so well-priced why hasn't it sold yet?

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:36 PM

Dekalb house is a steal. Not many one family houses left at this price, and the detail is beautiful.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:40 PM

3:40 - please see 3:36.

You are extremely out of the loop.

Homes that are "steals" do not sit on the market for almost a year.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:42 PM

The Bed-Stuy house is not in the historic district, but it is a nice block. Quick walk to the express train at Utica (vs. the local at Ralph.) Not too far a walk to the J on BRoadway. Also, the house is one block from Saratoga Park. Price might be a little high, but not insane. There is a housing project near Ralph and Fulton, but you can avoid the unsavory characters by getting off at the express stop (A) and walking around it. Nieghborhood is slowly getting better but still lacks some amenities.

No, I am not a broker. I live in the neighborhood so I can actually give you an accurate assessment vs. the overt racists who love to post on this site.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:42 PM

3:42 -- 3:36 is wrong. Look at the archive -- the house went on the market 3 months ago at a much higher price.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:47 PM

DeKalb has been on the market with the NEW price for 3 months.

It sat at the old price for almost 6.

Do you know how this works, here?

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:50 PM

3:50: Apparently reading is not one of your strengths. Nor is counting. The archive says it was listed three months ago at 2.2.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:58 PM

hey 336/342- who's out of the loop? the price was dropped sinificantly so the time on market re-sets. and i bet it sells for within $100k of the new asking. you sound like a renter- cause when you're really out there buying, what you think you should pay and what the market allows, are very different. I think it should be $1.4M, but it will go for close to ask (1.8) as I said.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 3:59 PM

I like the Bushwick house it is very very nice. Ilike the detail it is very very nice.

I like all of you you are very very nice. Except for is it the fuck? No I mean the what, he not bery bery nice he told us all bad things. Not very nice.

Bushwick though is very very nice.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 4:07 PM

I like Macdonough between Tompkins and Throop and Lewis and Stuyvesant.. Some of the best looking blocks in Brooklyn

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 4:10 PM

They all suck my big fat toe.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 4:12 PM

Hey I live on MacDonough and I have two neighbors that are going to be putting there house on the market towards the end of this year...

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 4:12 PM

you are so right tinarina.. people on here think anything pass Flatbush Ave is a war zone

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 4:59 PM

Is someone repeatedly posting that the Bushwick house is terrific and "very very" [insert positive adjective]? To me, in this market, $675K for BUSHWICK, folks, and there are only 2 pictures, I don't know, I can't bring myself to drink that Koolaid. And I love the "this is a great block" -- the only great block? -- and it 's right off the subway [so you can run home quickly and minimize your chances of being a victim of crime.] This blog is starting to bug me with the owners and the realtors. Nothing is real anymore.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 4:59 PM

tinarina: you need to look at crime stats. while you might have "felt" safe, bushwick is far from safe.

period. all one needs to do it look at crime stats.

bushwick is one of the top most crime ridden neighborhoods in brooklyn and the city.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 5:24 PM

Robbery and muggings happen among friends and family? Give me a break.

When people say they're worried about street crime, most of them aren't talking about getting murdered. They're talking about getting mugged, beaten up, having their cars broken into, robbed, etc. And those things generally don't happen between friends and family -- unless it's a really weird family.

The level of denial in these threads about the reality of crime in neighborhoods like Bushwick and Bed-Stuy never ceases to amaze me.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 5:50 PM

I could not agree more, 5:50.

It's become really sick actually.

I'm seeing many people flee Bed Stuy now for smaller places in Park Slope and Ft. Greene because they were under the false impression that the area was safe.

Certainly if they read this blog, they'd think it and Bushwick were Sesame Street by the way people on here boost it.

One reason of many why blogs are just for fun.

Not for facts.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:02 PM

Note to self: Stop mugging relatives...

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:25 PM

LOLOLOL.

i nearly fell off my chair, 6:25.

funniest post here today.

thanks.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:27 PM

I live in Bedford Stuyvesant I have many many friends that live here and none of us have been shot, mugged, robbed etc... So give me a break with your "stats"

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:27 PM

Tina: Don't worry about the douchebags. They love to quote teh stats of high crime as their excuse to continue to rent while they wait for prices in some more expensive nabe to decrease so they can buy, which of course will never happen.

And people are not moving out of Bushwick and Bed-Stuy to smaller places in other areas unless they have been priced out. If you actually LIVED in one of these neighborhoods you would know that, but your posts indicate that you don't.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:32 PM

Two of my neighbors just recently bought 3 bedroom co-ops in my North Slope building (yes...imagine that...I OWN!).

One family moved here from Bed Stuy, the other from Crown Heights.

Both families had incidents with crime. It was discussed in their co-op interview.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:42 PM

6:42, your neighbors are pussies.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:46 PM

Everyone has different levels of comfort, 6:46.

I wouldn't want to raise a child in Bed Stuy either at this point. Why should I? What exactly is so wrong with wanting to live in a nice neighborhood? Why is someone a pussy because they don't want to live in a neighborhood that is 90% black (if you are white). It has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with wanting to live among similar people.

I'd much rather spend my ONE life in a neighborhood I love, one that is safe, one where my kid can walk to school, one where there are 20 restaurants within 3 blocks and one where there are kids similar to mine who want to play.

Can you please tell me exactly what is wrong with that?

You do what you feel most comfortable and let those who differ from you do what they want to do. That's the beauty of America.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:53 PM

we all know that if prices in park slope, ft. greene, carroll gardens, bushwick and bed stuy were similar, there would be almost no one moving to the two latter neighborhoods.

let's get real here for a second.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 6:57 PM

a pioneer discount would be 300K.

675K is still a lot of dough these days. you still have to be "wealthy" to afford 650K.

that's the issue.

this area ain't really 675K worthy when you can buy a beautiful house like this in rittenhouse square for that much.

but of course it will sell. ghettos are hot these days.

Posted by: guest at February 22, 2008 9:24 PM

"some people WANT to live in these communities, and are not here just because they are priced out of "better" neighborhoods."

10% or less. It's a rare breed that pays significantly less than they can afford (with room to save and enjoy a lifestyle) to live in a certain nabe. Heath Ledger in Boreum Hill and a handful of bankers in Fort Greene are rare examples.

"No one in their right mind is going to risk their family's safety".

Bingo. They're out of their minds.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 8:40 AM

Montrose, 90% black isn't diverse. Neither is 90% white, or 90% asian, or 90% hispanic. It's the opposite of diverse. Personally, I don't want to live in a neighborhood where I'm in the 10% minority, whatever I may be. I don't think that's racist. I also don't want to live in a neighborhood that's 90% college-students, or 90% investment bankers, or 90% bohemian.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 10:35 AM

tinarina: "My earlier comment about crime was about serious incidents, like assault and rape. Yes, muggings and car break-ins are undoubtedly higher in Bushwick and Bed-Stuy and other similar (largely low-income) neighborhoods. But that doesn't make them bad places to live...."

For you. Which is fine. For other people, having an objectively higher chance of being mugged does make a neighborhood a bad place to live. Which is also fine.

People have a right to make these decisions without beeing called crazy (on the one hand) or racist (on the other). But to make these decisions, they need objective information, like the plain fact that these crimes have a higher incidence in these neighborhoods.

Which is why it's ridiculous that people get jumped on here for pointing out those facts. If you feel living in Bushwick is worth a somewhat higher risk of getting mugged, that's fine. But no one is obligated to pretend that higher risk doesn't exist, or to pretend that--because "muggings happen in every neighborhood"--that muggings are equally likely in any neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 10:53 AM

6:57 PM - no one would live in any of those neighborhoods if they were priced the same as the West Village, Chelsea, Tribeca, and Central Park West.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 11:47 AM

last i checked, park slope, brooklyn heights and ft. greene were indeed more expensive than many of it's manhattan counterparts, and people still seem to choose brooklyn.

if you have me 10 million bucks tomorrow, i'd stay in park slope for eternity.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:14 PM

Montrose, it's not possible to analyze whether or not a property is a good buy without talking about the safety of the neighborhood, because as you yourself say, a neighborhood's crime rate necessarily has an effect on the value of that property.

You say that you're tired of people bringing up the fact that there's crime in Bed-Stuy and Crown Heights, implying that posters are talking about this too much. But what we're tired of is the relentless insistence by you and others that these neighborhoods are safe enough that it's reasonable to pay $800K-$1 million to live in them. They're not. The gap in crime rates between Bed-Stuy and Carroll Gardens or the Slope is massive, as is the gap in services, quality of life, etc. Bed-Stuy is, in terms of safety, where the Slope was 15 years ago. But 15 years ago you could buy a brownstone in the Slope, inflation-adjusted, for much less than you can buy a brownstone in Bed-Stuy now. To put it in Tina's terms, the "pioneer discount" is nowhere near big enough. These neighborhoods have benefited from the run-up in prices in Brooklyn's more expensive neighborhoods, even though the vast majority of the people who are buying properties in those neighborhoods would never think of moving to BS or Bushwick. So it is, in that sense, a somewhat deceptive inflation, fueled in large part by cheap credit and fantasies about the continued rise of property values.

The fundamental point is that property prices in BS, Bushwick and Crown Heights are out of whack. Given what you get from living there, and what you have to deal with on a daily level (including most obviously the threat of crime), it costs way too much to live there. You can keep telling us how the salt of the earth live there -- and I'm sure they do. But it doesn't change the fact that today it makes no economic sense to buy in these neighborhoods.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:15 PM

It will be possible, Montrose...when people like Tinarina stop saying that Bushwick is just as safe as every other place in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:15 PM

Oh jeez, are these the racist Caroll Gardens Italians returned to Brownstoner again to obsess about crime? They keep popping up around here lately.

Get lost youse guys you.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:25 PM

the bushwick house is worth about 500

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:27 PM

"It has nothing to do with racism, it has to do with wanting to live among similar people."

That's the shame that is America. Thinking that you are not a racist when you are. I have more respect for neo-Nazi'a and tne Klan. At least they admit to being racist so that there are no misunderstanding.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:30 PM

OK everybody, take a deep breath and calm the heck down.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:50 PM

"So, would it be possible for one thread to feature a house in one of these communities, and discuss it on the merits of its architecture, beauty, size, price or closeness to the subway, without the predictions of some kind of cloud of crime and lawlessness that is sure to descend on the unwitting?"

Not when you put a ridiculous price tag on it.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 12:59 PM

9:24 -- 675 is not a lot of money in new york, especially if you obtain financing for 70 to 80% of that price. Also I do not think you can buy a house in rittenhouse square for 675.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 1:05 PM

This is just a check to see if I have continued to being barred from writng here.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 1:06 PM

Yeah, robberies do happen among friends and family. Most of the time it is people robbing drug dealers, who they know are drug dealers. They are not necessarily "friends," but they are frequently acquaintances. That is one poster meant when s/she stated that the crime is generally not being random. Believe it or not, white yuppies are not the only people who get robbed or mugged. Shocking I know!

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 2:07 PM

$675K is a lot of money, especially for anyone thinking about living in Bed-Stuy or Bushwick. And the financing doesn't matter -- you're still spending $675K plus interest for a property that's unlikely to see any significant price appreciation for half a decade, in a neighborhood that has few services and is still fairly rough.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 2:58 PM

12:15 Well where am I supposed to buy with my 800k and I want a house? It is not as though the majority of buyers are passing up affordable homes in your approved neighborhoods to live in Bed-Stuy or Crown Heights. People purchase homes where they can afford them.

Do I think 900k is too much for a house in a neighborhood with bad schools and poor services? Hell yes. But if I want to own a house and it's my only option, I guess I'll have to buy and hope for the best.

(Of course, this is theoretical as we are two school teachers and our actual budget is much much lower. Luckily there have been a lot more listings for homes under 600k in the "fringe" neighborhoods. I can't wait to be part of community of middle-class homeowners.)

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 3:45 PM

The neighborhoods where houses are priced under $700,000 are years away from much improvement, it's true. Some neighborhoods emerging from being called fringe or borderline, where houses are more like a million or just under, their values are increasing at a faster rate. But then that's $300K to $400K more you have to spend to buy there.

I really think if you're spending less than $700K start with a coop or condo. By the time you really need all the space of the house you can trade up. It's less risky financially if you need to sell sooner than planned.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 5:22 PM

I agree that Montrose Morris bends over backwards to deny or minimize crime in Crown Heights. It must be difficult to have made the biggest purchase of his/her life in a crime-ridden area that shows little, if any, chances of improving. Generally speaking, many people will overlook properties in an area that the NYT reports as being an Operation Impact zone.

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 6:07 PM

Brownstoner:

On a recent drive through Crown Heights, the first return to my boyhood neighborhood in nearly 50 years, here's what I saw on a winter's weekday afternoon:

-- Knots of people in puffy jackets walking around Grant Square.

-- Shoppers with carts going to and from a supermarket on Nostrand Avenue.

-- Elders going up and down the steps of a religious institution on Eastern Parkway.

-- A group of little kids running (happily) into the door of a house on President Street.

-- A woman coming out of the door of her house on Pacific Street about to walk her dog.

-- A "hipster" turning the corner of Dean and Nostrand.

-- Clots of people waiting for the bus on Bergen Street.

-- A woman parking her car at the Hebron Church School on Brooklyn Avenue.

-- Etc.

In other words, ordinary Brooklyn community life.

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 8:04 PM

MontroseMorris,

"would it be possible for one thread to feature a house in one of these communities, and discuss it on the merits of its architecture, beauty, size, price or closeness to the subway, without the predictions of some kind of cloud of crime ... It really gets tiresome."

You know what gets tiresome? You. Would it be possible for you to not bring up crown heights in threads about other neighborhoods? Would it be possible for you to just skip commenting on every post that may involve your neighborhood? Would it be possible for you to right a comment that wasn't 5 paragraphs long?

Posted by: guest at February 23, 2008 9:23 PM

I am probably racist to some extent. I am less racist than my parents were and my children are being brought up in a way that I hope will ensure they are not racist at all. Some things do not change quickly and unless people make a conscious decision to change them they will not change at all.
My family and I live in Bed Sty and I do not consider that I have put my family at risk by moving here. I guess moving here has forced me to analize my own thoughts though.

We moved from Manhatten with a limited amount of money and I wanted to buy a house to give my family some space. I guess before I moved here I did not think I was racist, but after moving here I found myself suspecting and distrusting of the 90%. I have tried to make a conscious effort to change.

Since I have changed my own thinking the area around me has also changed. I guess perception is reality. My wife and I rarely feel unsafe (although we do not walk around late at night either).

My point is that if you suspect many of the 90% of the people around you then 1. you are never going to feel safe and 2. you are probably a rasist. The number of peole around you that are likely to hurt you is so small you are pretty unlikly to encounter them if you take the most basic of precautions.

When you talk about crime rate being higher, in Bed Sty consider how you think about crime. A crime rate as high as it is in the west village is still likely to affect you at some point in your life (that's life in a big city) but it's unlike to affect you in a significant or life threatening way. If the crime rate in Bed Sty is 300% as high I'm happy to take the risk. Three times the risk of something unlikely is still unlikely.

More importantly I can easily take precautions that can keep us safe in Bed Sty (I mean against the real not percieved risks)but I can never afford a full house in the west villiage.

I suspect that many of the people on this site that see Bed Sty and other areas as so undesirable would still feel right at home in a white neighborhood with the same crime rate.

If you can get beyond your own rasism and look at architecture, beauty, size, price or closeness to the subway as someone above said you will benefit yourself. I have been here four years now and I have seen prices rise significantly.

To those that say that 675 is too much for a house in Bushwick, that is fine but make sure that you are not living in the past, some things change slowly and you do not notice. There was a time when 100 was too much... and then it was not.

Buying a beautiful house in a not so beautiful area (yet)is just a choice. I made it, have benefited from it and plenty of people will do the same. Not everyone is racist and some of those who are can change.

The over-the-top emphasis on crime in these posts is really more about rasism than it initially appears.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 12:01 AM

12:01:

Congrstulations. You may be on the way to becoming what Martin Luther King Jr. called a "transformed non-conformist." Your children, too.

Yet another advantage to living in Brooklyn.

NOP

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 1:45 AM

We purchased a home in Bed Stuy last June and somewhat overpaid before the credit crunch hit. But, we enjoy living here. The house is incredible! The diverse population of hard working, warm and friendly neighbors and people generally can't be beat either. There's less pretention - just simple Brooklyn livin - like it's supposed to be.

The lack of services, poverty, lack of education and drug users sometimes evidenced is sad and frankly annoying at times but not scary. We miss the park slope scene only mildly, but since we're like 6 minutes away from the slope we still frequent the establishments. But frankly, I had more homeless folks bugging me in park slope than I do here - in fact, no homeless person has ever asked me for change in Bed Stuy.....I guess I look broke too!

The only thing we would do differently is renegotiate the sale price down a bit more, but this was the house meant for us - we're home!

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 11:12 AM

bushwick house is worth 500k
bed stuy 550k
park slope 1.2
clinton hill 1.5

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 11:17 AM

They are worth what people will pay for them. Could be more, could be less, but you can be sure that the person that buys will actually visit the house (likely several times) before s/he puts a value on it (the only value that counts).
Your atributing values over a forum without any first hand knowledge of what the actual house has to offer is sooooo irrelevant.

If it sells high you will say the person made a mistake...but you live in a market economy???

If it sells low you will say you were right but you were only as right as the person who bets heads on a coin flip and wins. It could have gone either way.

Look at the house. Comment on the house.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 11:41 AM

12:01 pm -- That post was incredible. It's a keeper.

My favorite line:

"I suspect that many of the people on this site that see Bed Sty and other areas as so undesirable would still feel right at home in a white neighborhood with the same crime rate."

Question: Do you think your community can potentially realize Montrose's concept of a "better community"? He says: "People who have put down roots in our communities, whether 40 years ago or last year, want a slow, gradual easing into higher prices, accompanied by better everything, accompanied by a firm commitment to truly affordable housing. That is the only way to make a better community. "

What do you think it will take, on your part? On others'? Perhaps this is the time, now, for people to make choices not only as individuals and families but as larger groups.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 12:18 PM

6:02 REgarding your comment: "I'm seeing many people flee Bed Stuy now for smaller places in Park Slope and Ft. Greene because they were under the false impression that the area was safe."

These fleeing crowds (on bikes? in school buses?) -- why dont those people post here? Are they so ashamed of having made a wrong decision? Were they robbed of their computers in Bed Stuy?

Because so far (not that this site is an indicator of the mentality of ALL homebuyers, but its a slice) people here who've moved to bedstuy have saying only positive things. So either they're in post traumatic shock syndrome and can't actually face the reality of the HORROR they have to endure, or they're pleasantly surprised by the fact that their loved ones are still alive that they're practically euphoric. OR it just ain't that fuckin bad as you'd like us to believe.

I suspect that those "fleeing crowds" you're referring to are the people who see you coming with your corcoran agent. And they're not fleeing to PArk Slope or Fort Greene. They're fleeing to Brownsville or East New York, where they're sure not to see you (at least for the next few years).

FYI, Fort Greene WAS bed stuy in terms of crime only 8 years ago. And is still home to one of the most notoriously crime-ridden, drug infested ghettos in New York. It's just got more white people (like me) living there now. It looks safer.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 12:28 PM

All of Brooklyn changed dramatically over the last 18 years. Fringe neighborhoods too. All of Brooklyn will continue to change dramatically. Fringe neighborhoods too. The current economical situation sucks but I don't believe for a moment it will set back a trend that's nearly 20 years in the making in Brooklyn, in the most desireable city on the planet.

It's about how much money you have right now to purchase real estate, and what your needs are regarding square footage that determines which neighborhood you land it. Some types feel the need to feel superior and flaunt their wealth and their ability to buy in blue chip neighborhoods, but in the end it's a personal decision that's only about YOUR needs and values. And economic smarts of course. I personally refuse to overpay for real estate and haven't in either of the large cities I've lived in. In the 3 properties I've owned I've always been one of the first wave of new residents into an undervalued neighborhood. And it's paid off huge for me.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 12:34 PM

Montrose, your comments are illuminating and wise. EVeryone here has a right to say what they want, but precisely because you write about your own neighborhood, you also have credibility. Most of these people are shoppers. They're paranoid, as they should be. I was paranoid sitting down for the closing, as were you, i'm sure. It's really not worth responding to their hysteria.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 12:58 PM

Keep up the good work Montrose!

-White Guy in the Stuy

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 1:55 PM

12:18 I am for the most part ignorant of the struggles that have occurred here in the past but I can tell you what I have learned from what I have observed here in the last 4 years, what I have observed elsewhere, and what in my humble opinion I think it means for Bed Sty.

Essentially what people want is to have change, but change at a pace that is gradual enough so that those who are currently part of the area can participate in, enjoy, and prosper from it.

I once heard when I was much younger that people generally overestimate what can be done in a year and underestimate what can be done in ten. Now I am older I have seen this to be true. Bed Sty one way or another will, in ten years be a very different place from what it is today. The change can be driven from within or driven from outside but it will happen.

Bed Sty has too much to offer to not change. It has magnificicent architeture, its own culture and history and established parks and trees. The people living here recognize this (and the people moving in definately know it). Now, if the people living here have a view of how they want bed sty to change they must participate in the change itself. Change is not a thing that happens on its own it may seem that way if you are not participating in it but someone is making it happen. Someone no smarter than you, just someone that believes it can happen.

Last weekend I walked up and down my block and pick up a full garbage bag of rubbish. I live on a clean street because I make that happen. I am not proud, people saw me do it. I don't know if they laughed at me or if it means that they will do it themselves but I caused a small change...for the better.

Bigger changes are just as possible. People say there are not enough restaurants... open a restaurant. Tell me why it is not possible and I will tell you why it is. If people decided to be part of the change that they wish for, things will start to happen. In my view a change in thinking is required first. That should be the easiest change of all, but sadly it is not.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 1:56 PM

Keep up the good work Montrose!

-White Guy in the Stuy

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 1:57 PM

Thanks, 1:56. I'm glad you put it in such practical, simple terms, because that's all it takes, not an entire machinery, but just one person's impulse. Then everyone follows.

I think people dont act on what they believe "should be" because they feel overwhelmed and disillusioned. As soon as they see someone else do it, it becomes an afterthought, an "of course". This goes for moving to a new environment (as you did -- I'm sure someone else inspired you too), and it goes for changing one's own old habits (as the old timers on your street will).

I just hope that the changes won't create an "us vs. them" mentality between the old timers and the newcomers, so that no one wants to do anything because it's not "their" fault (the newcomer feels alienated, the oldtimer feels invaded). I guess it just takes more people doing what they know SHOULD BE DONE. The sheep on both sides will follow.
Thanks again.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 2:29 PM

Montrose Morris,

"Bed Stuy and Crown Heights are next door to each other, and were considered the same neighborhood until recently."

Wrong as well as typically tedious. My parents are from Crown Heights. They grew up there in the 30s/40s long before you and NOP who you seem to consider an old timer. They and those around them never considered Bed-Sty the same neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 2:47 PM

MM,

As usual, you miss the point. My parents recollection of what CH was like 50+ years ago would not "provide something positive to the conversation". That's because the conversation is about these houses today in completely different neighborhoods.

Claiming these neighborhoods are similar does not legitimate your constant efforts to hijack every post.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 3:58 PM

Curiously, what's so dissimilar about Crown Heights and Bed Stuy? I don't get the argument - yes, I am definitely missing the point.....

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 5:28 PM

3:58 I dont know who you are, but chill the fuck out.

The whole argument of whether CH and BS were different "neighborhoods" then or now is idiotic. Those delineations irrelevant, then, and now. What is this, the gaza strip?

And yeah, if you do feel so goddam strongly as to raise hell over this issue, then make a POINT. What are the differences? Why does it matter? Stop raging and share a thought. Please. Jesus . . .

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 7:09 PM

The difference is one has a house that is included in the open house picks and one does not.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 8:14 PM

7:09 wash your mouth out

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 10:01 PM

i don't understand people who think 90% black is considered diverse. never have.

the u.s. is 65% white, 12% black, 18% hispanic, 5% asian, give or take.

those ratios actually look a lot more like the supposedly non diverse neighborhoods of park slope.

you people don't know sh#t.

park slope is actually LESS white than that, but people claim all the time that it's lost its diversity.

Posted by: guest at February 24, 2008 11:38 PM

Aside from the inevitable weekly racial conversation, what I hear on this site 90% of the time are people whining about homes they cannot actually afford...holding on to false hopes and spreading disinformation about a market crash...are you out there looking at all? losing in bidding wars?

Posted by: guest at February 25, 2008 12:56 AM

11:30pm - the problem is when you think diverse you are only considering black vs white etc. When I say Bed Stuy is diverse, I think in terms of cultures, etc.. Black and white are colors - they don't describe the origins, cultures, behaviors, likes or dislikes of a people.

you don't know sh*t! expand your thinking...

Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 7:19 PM

Diverstiy of thought - what a concept!

Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:03 PM

typo -

DiversITY of thought

It just takes one error to derail and idea! oops!

Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:05 PM

typo -

It just takes one error to derail an! idea! oops again!

may be that last drink I had - I'll sleep now - and go back to ruling the financial universe tomorrow............

Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:08 PM