House of the Day: 106 Lincoln Place

18' wide and underwhelming. Not a $3 million property, sorry.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:35 PM

Also a bit of information...there were two other Lincoln Place homes for sale a little while back...they were profiled on here I believe...

Someone said that the owner took those properties off the market with Corcoran because they saw the rentals listed on Craigslist or something??

Well, I walked by this past Sunday and both those homes were having open houses...they looked to be homemade signs, thus FSBO.

That said, the house of the day today looks gorgeous.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:36 PM

If it's a Corcoran listing, it's gotta be a $3,000,000 house!
That's the only number they know!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:36 PM

This is about $1,000 square foot....YIKES!!!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:41 PM

what the heck is wrong with recessed lighting??? you are starting to sound like a broken record - as if that would stop anyone from buying a home. it provides good luminescence, looks just fine in the kitchen, and doesn't take away from detail. what more do you want?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:43 PM

Looks like 17 feet wide to me. It seems nice but way too expensive.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:45 PM

Love the stretched out facade photo by Corcoran.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:46 PM

"...pretty 2007..."

LOL. Nice.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:48 PM

How much is a parking spot at the Union Street garage?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:51 PM

This block is perfection.

Best part of the slope.

Don't think 3 million is a stretch.

Not with zero inventory of nice, ready to move into homes in Park Slope right now.

Anyone else noticed that inventory just ain't there??

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 1:51 PM

I better make sure when I put my house on the market, I take out the fridge and put the ICE chest back in to make sure it's up to the standards of the brownstoner crowd.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:06 PM

That recessed lighting would be a bit harsh on my waxed moustache and bowler hat.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:08 PM

For this price I'd rather have this 2nd Street house:

http://www.bhsbrooklyn.com/detail.asp?id=765573

And the 2nd Street house hasn't moved at that price. They've had many open houses. I saw it and it's very lovely, and move-in condition. It's just not moving at that price.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:09 PM

Actually 2:05 with 20% down, a 3 million dollar house is $14,000 a month on a 30 year fixed mortgage.

Still a lot of money, but it ain't 20 grand.

It's doable for a couple makeing 500K a year and some equity from a previous home sale.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:11 PM

2:09...I find Lincoln Place to be a far superior location than 2nd Street....

About 5 blocks closer to the subway for one.

And good subways...like 2/3/Q.

Not the F.

And yes...wealthy people DO still take the subways contrary to popular belief.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:12 PM

recessed lighting is 1970s, not contemporary

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:13 PM

what the heck is wrong with recessed lighting??? you are starting to sound like a broken record - as if that would stop anyone from buying a home. it provides good luminescence, looks just fine in the kitchen, and doesn't take away from detail. what more do you want?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:16 PM

Will you people stop comparing your wallet size to folks with some serious cash!!

2:07 summed it up

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:18 PM

As long as the recessed lighting is fueled by whale oil, I'm OK with it.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:20 PM

A better buy is this house a couple of blocks away on Sterling Place, and closer to the trains, for a tad under $3 mil. http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=931051&rentalperiod=&SearchType=houses&Region=NYC

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:20 PM

Defintely worth every penny plus some. $3.5mm in a bidding war

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:21 PM

2:13...

You might want to let the people who designed the new Gucci Flagship store that recessed lighting is out.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:22 PM

A better buy is this house a couple of blocks away on Sterling Place, and closer to the trains, for a tad under $3 mil. Wider and in better condition with more details and woodwork. http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=931051&rentalperiod=&SearchType=houses&Region=NYC

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:22 PM

Turn off that newfangled recessed lighting in here! It's so bright that I can't find my buggy whip.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:25 PM

"3 mil, means a mortgage payment of something like 20 grand a month. It amazes me that there are some many brownstones priced at 2 to 3 mil."

Ding Ding Ding!!!! Brooklynnative!! There is a classic case of disconnect going on. If you use a 35/41 Ratio You have to have a monthly income of 57,142.85 or 685,714.28 a year!!!!

WHAT IS THE FUCK WRONG WITH THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ask yourself that question. People who bought into this bubble madness will do anything to justify their bullshit.

Wake up America!!

The What (AAHHHHHHH)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:26 PM

The Sterling Place is nice, except for the awful garden level. Also, it's not on the best block--it's a scruffy stretch and it's one house over from that awful Christ Scientist church. It's not moving at that price--been on the market for a while. Also, it's only 1/2 foot wider than this one!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:28 PM

What you don't realize, THE WHAT is that there are quite a few people in this city who DO MAKE 685K A YEAR!!!

I received more than that for my bonus last month!

And I'm 33 years old.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

These homes are for wealthy people and that is who is buying them.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:31 PM

Seriously Brownstoner dude, lay off the personal comments towards recessed lighting. A serious buyer will see that's evidence of recent electric work.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:32 PM

"What you don't realize, THE WHAT is that there are quite a few people in this city who DO MAKE 685K A YEAR!!!

I received more than that for my bonus last month!

And I'm 33 years old.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!

These homes are for wealthy people and that is who is buying them."

Stop lying! People who make that muck don't need to say that. Now do back to sleep.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:35 PM

A parking space at that location is easily worth an extra $250,000.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:35 PM

You can just see The tWhats's fidgety little fingers as he says to himself "shall I proof read that"? no, no. Hit enter, hit enter!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:40 PM

Can't wait till the 6 months later thread on this house when it sells for full asking.

Keep that in mind haters. I'll be sure to cut and paste your asinine posts...

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:41 PM

"I received more than that for my bonus last month!"

Ok I gonna chill. NOT!!!! I see it says "Bonus" not "Salary", I conclude you are a A) Wall Street Assfuck B) Real Estate Broker (NOT!) C) Male Stripper taking up the ass.

Well.. I hope you are not A because the gravy train is coming to a end!! B is already dead and I really think you a C. LMMFAO Stupid! Read the FED minutes and you will see it's over and "Rich People" will flee when things get bad.

The What ( 600k yeah right)

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:41 PM

'These homes are for wealthy people and that is who is buying them'

I make 85K a year...you mean I can't buy this house?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:43 PM

Nope...imagine that, 2:43....85k a year and you don't deserve a 3 million dollar house!

CRAZY TALK!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 2:49 PM

Agreed about the bowling hat and buggy whip. If I had recessed lighting then everyone would see the lines in my bodice from my corset.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:03 PM

three years ago, 2:43 could have gotten a mortgage for this house.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:05 PM

you can get the same house in other parts of bk 2:43 just not in Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:07 PM

2:43 Yes, you may be able to buy this house making $85k/yr. and I know others who have.

Here's how: Your (parent, grandparent, or eccentric great uncle) died recently leaving you $3 million dollars. You put a million down, put the rest into income bearing securities and rent out the garden apartment.

It's not necessarily a great strategy but it happens...a lot.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:09 PM

But when my parent, grandparent and eccentric uncle all died recently in a Zeppelin crash and left me $3 million dollars, I couldn't read the will properly because we didn't have recessed lighting. The lawyers got everything.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:18 PM

my eccentric uncle has no money, just personality.

Are you sure you have to be rich to buy one of these 3M dollar houses?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:18 PM

3 years ago (2005) this house would have sold for 2.5 million.

You HONESTLY think you could have bought that on an 85K salary, 3:05???

You're nuts.

You couldn't buy a house like this in Park Slope on that kindof salary going back AT LEAST 10 years.

Sorry.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:25 PM

If you SOLD your 3 million house and put the money into a safe investment, you would have 150,000 unearned income. Enough to live rather nicely anywhere else in teh country and actually get to know your kids. Why exactly are you working in that 685000 job? Is Park Slope that wonderful?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:31 PM

That recessed lighting would be worth $8.7 million in Carroll Gardens, but then would be worthless once the Atlantic Yards are built.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:32 PM

If you SOLD your 3 million house and put the money into a safe investment, you would have 150,000 unearned income. Enough to live rather nicely anywhere else in teh country and actually get to know your kids. Why exactly are you working in that 685000 job? Is Park Slope that wonderful?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:32 PM

It's CABLE TV READY....Cable TV folks, that is worth at least $250/sq foot.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:33 PM

A house a lot like this with similar high-end upgrades sold here in Lefferts Manor for over $1.5 million last year. So wouldn't $3 million make sense for this house being in Park Slope?

I think it's lovely. I like this architectural style. Renaissance Revival right?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:38 PM

I work in the Music Industry and love living in Park Slope.

Just ran into that guy from Supersize Me last weekend. He just bought a place in PS as well.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:39 PM

3:25, relax.
It's Scarasm!!!
Everybody knows that on 85K a year, you can't buy a 3M house, only a 2M house in not so great an area like Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:39 PM

There is NO WAY a parking space at Union Street garage is valued at $250K. Nice try.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:39 PM

Union Garage is 500 a month.

That's 6000 a year.

or $180,000 for 30 years.

So yes, I'd say 250K premium to have it right there on your property sounds about right.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:41 PM

I'm 3:39...and I meant Sarcasm.
Bad me.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:42 PM

Morgan Spurlock is the name of the guy from Super Size Me that I was referring to. Couldn't remember his name.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:44 PM

@2:11:

If you know someone giving out $2.4m super jumbo 30 fixed rate mortgages at under 6%, could you pass on the information?

I'm having trouble finding anyone willing to do it at any rate, and even below $2m they want 8%, which makes the monthly payment $17,600, mostly not deductible, of course, so the banks are looking for better income coverage than usual. Basically, they want verifiable income (not bonuses) of about $800k for this.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:46 PM

We could pay nearly all cash.

The wife and I bought a 2 bedroom on the Upper West Side in the early 90's for 150K and just sold it for 1.7 million.

We'd be able to put that into the down payment and then some money the wife inherited a couple years back. We'd probably have a mortgage of maybe 600K or so.

In a rental now looking for the right house and have focussed on PS because of the schools. This in ps. 321?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:50 PM

Oh, you rich people always want the best rates.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:52 PM

Yippy, we found a buyer.
3:50 - is going to offer asking.
Anybody want to counter offer?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:54 PM

This house and the ones on either side that were listed in the fall are all owned by the same guy. He has listed them with different agencies hoping to cover as much of the market as possible. He didn't tell all the brokers this at the time. Several were more than a bit miffed on sunday. Don't know why they were surprised given he did the same thing in the fall.

All are way over priced and the wood work is not that nice up close.

As for those saying it will sell, they didn't sell a few months ago. Why now?

I agree that Sterling house is nicer if you want a high-end, but narrow house.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:57 PM

I'll bring cupcakes to the closing.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:58 PM

3:50--no, it's not PS 321. And congratulations that you can afford this house almost outright. And your point in announcing it on a blog is...?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 3:58 PM

This is not in ps 321.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:00 PM

The Sterling Place house is wider than this one, albeit by about 1 foot. But it feels much wider. I've seen both places and I definitely rate Sterling as a much better house overall. The woodwork and wainscoting at Sterling are superior, and it feels much more spacious. I also find the exterior of the house to be more attractive. But, it's apparently still overpriced since it's been on the market at that price for a while.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:02 PM

Just thought it would be helpful to point out that some people can and do buy these homes, despite what many of you seem to say.

So I guess this is ps. 29 then?

Heard good things about that school also.

My gay brother just moved to Park Slope last year and just loves it. We can't wait to be in the same hood and have a bbq.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:02 PM

Well you don't get or stay rich by overpaying.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:03 PM

'My gay brother just moved to Park Slope last year and just loves it. We can't wait to be in the same hood and have a bbq.'

Why do I need to know this??? I don't care about your family or what you like to eat.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:09 PM

It's bullshit 4:09--there's ALWAYS someone (a seller, broker) who comes out and says they JUST sold their UWS apartment and can pay cash for a Slope brownstone. If it were true, it'd be stupid to be telling people on a blog, instead of just buying it already. It just works against you by creating interest and competitive bidding--which is why I call bullshit.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:12 PM

No Cupcakes at closing :(

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:13 PM

People who have an apartment in Manhattan they've owned for several years they can sell at a large profit are exactly who can and who are spending $2-$3 million for a house in Park Slope or elsewhere. Hard to sell an apartment in Brooklyn and make that jump, but you can make a smaller jump selling a Brooklyn coop you've owned a long time. We did that and it enabled us to buy a million dollar house. Not in Park Slope, needless to say, at that lower price.

We saw Morgan Spurlock walking with his wife (she was in his movie as his then girlfriend) on 5th Ave the other night.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:14 PM

Don't read it then, 4:09.

Skip to the next. You sound like a 5 year old.

Any info on school? This is ps. 29?

I never said we were buying THIS house. I said it looks interesting. We will probably take a look but it looks like a nice fit. There doesn't seem to be too many other houses on the market and we are getting tired of the rental...too small...

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:18 PM

Yes, 4:14. Of course. I'm saying that not everyone who does so comes on to Brownstoner to announce it, and to effectively create competition on the bidding for a house. Most people who are truly interested in buying a property would not publicize it here.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:21 PM

His wife is sooooo annoying.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:26 PM

2.22 - thats a store. Does the rest of your house look like a store? Retail decoration and home decoration are two different things.

Like i said recessed lighting - 70s.
Why don't you go for some styrofoam ceiling tiles too?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:26 PM

I find it really hard to believe that the Union Street garage is charging $500 per month. I parked my car there on a monthly basis for two years up until eight months ago and I paid $370. Perhaps they charge $500 for the "in and out" service -- which I think means you get to park on the first level and drive your car in and out whenever you want instead of having your car put away and taken out by the attendants -- but I don't think everyone pays that much.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:28 PM

I couldn't help but read about the gay brother and the BBQ, If there was a warning before or some indication that you were going to veer from the topic of the hosue, than I would have avoided it.

I may sound like a 5 year old...but you sound like an idiot who's considering an overpiced house.

Good luck to you, may you find a house closer to your brother and a butcher to sell you meat for your BBQ.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:30 PM

4:26 - we are both women.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:32 PM

I hate recessed lighting in a home, it's tacky. It's harsh, not even in a kitchen, they create shadows. Maybe a bathroom..and only over a tub/shower, never over a sink/mirror.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:34 PM

nevermind, the next round of 70's revival is probably only 10 years off.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:49 PM

anyone who thinks a parking spot is worth $250K is out of their mind --- any way you cut it
to borrow an extra $250K would cost you way over $1K per month.
much much better deal to get scalped at any garage

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 4:59 PM

people who have the money, don't care, 4:59.

a can of coke costs 6 cents to make including the can but you still pay 1.50 for it.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:02 PM

I have a bunch of recessed lights in the kitchen end of my living room. The light isn't so bad but it seems like too many bulbs. What would any of you suggest as an alternative?

Also, what's wrong with the Christian Scientist Church on Sterling. Looks like a nice little neoclassical building. That house off the corner of 7th on Sterling is beautiful!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:08 PM

Per the article last week about the people who own Pintchik Hardware along with $100 million worth of real estate along Flatbush, incluing the Christian Science place, I believe...this is all going to be redevloped in the next 3 years.

We can expect some nicer...dare I mention Restoration Hardware type stores along Flatbush between 7th and Grand Army Plaza in the not too distant future.

Can't wait.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:12 PM

Near the beginning of 2006 Berman Realty told me that they were selling the parking condos on Union for between $75K and $90K. Might be some monthly maintenance beyond that but that was the sales price.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:14 PM

I'm kind of surprised the Sterling PLace house hasn't been a HOTD. It's more interesting (architecturally and the interior) than this one.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:15 PM

Central Parking on Union charges $325/month, that's $3900/year for those here who apparently failed grade school math.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:23 PM

Sterling house hasn't been HOTD, cause it is listed with Corcoran.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:26 PM

Sterling house hasn't been HOTD, cause it is listed with Corcoran.

I meant to say....because it isn't listed with Corcoran.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:29 PM

um...the house of the day today is listed with corcoran.

my lord people.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:29 PM

Having on-site parking is very different from being in a public lot. Your car is right there when you want it - no walking to the garage and waiting for the attendant; you don't have to unload at your house, then drive to the garage, then walk back home; if you're leaving early in the morning you can pack the car the night before; if your kid leaves his bookbag in the car you don't have to hike however many blocks to retrieve it.

That seems like the kind of convenience a person in the market for a $3 million house might be willing to pay for.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:39 PM

Just cut a hole in the front and turn the ground floor family room into a garage.

Now THAT would be convenient!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:49 PM

I have recessed lighting in my Hummer, which I park on top of my garden in my brownstone. Every day I have my gardener replant my garden so that I have something nice to park on when I get home. I will paint my house yellow and orange and rack-up LPC violations because it pisses off my neighbors, and I can afford it.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:54 PM

5:39--what's your point? The parking space that comes with this house is in Union Street garage. It is NOT on-site parking.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 5:59 PM

I have recessed lighting in my gardener.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:00 PM

i think you're right 5:29

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:03 PM

you could definitely squeeze a mini sideways into that bit below the stoop.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:17 PM

I don't know about a mini, but surely a Smart Car.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:24 PM

Or a Segway or two.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:33 PM

Is someone on this thread actually bragging about Morgan Spurlock living in Park Slope?

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:37 PM

"4:26 - we are both women."

4:32, what are you talking about? I was referring to Morgan Spurlock's annoying wife. Surely, you are not Morgan pretending to be a woman for 30 days.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 6:53 PM

Thank you 5:54. It was worth reading to the bottom of the posts just to get to yours. Did not almost fall off my chair laughing, but got a good chuckle. Being oppositional in the face of the sanctimonious park slopers is just good clean fun.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 7:11 PM

If by good, clean fun, you mean having a pea-sized brain, then yeah...I suppose 5:54 represents good clean fun.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 7:27 PM

Sanctimonious does not equal smart, 7:27. Long live recessed lighting!

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 7:34 PM

overpriced and won't sell for several months. Come back later and feel free to quote me when I am right.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 7:45 PM

This house will join the ranks of 146 Sterling Place and 590 2nd Street as those Park Slope move-in ready houses that just don't sell at these prices.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 7:50 PM

I sooo want to agree with you 7:45 and 7:50. But how do you explain why that other Lincoln Place house (which I thought was kinda ho-hum) sold for over ask at $3 million? I would love to talk to all the buyers that bid over ask for that place and find out what they were thinking.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 8:17 PM

Don't know 8:17--it worked for that Lincoln Place house, but failed to move these, more narrow ones also on Lincoln Place.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 8:29 PM

Maybe cause the guy who owns all three of these is a little nuts and turns people off?

It's the reason I'm not interested.

He's a weirdo.

Some old guy who bought the three places for a song now about to cash in on 9 million bucks. Yeah, I can see how that might be a little overwhelming.

Sucks to be him. Maybe he'll stop his meds long enough to realize that even if he sold these babies for 2 million each (a BARGAIN BASEMENT price by todays standards for these homes), he could live like Paris Hilton for the rest of his days on the 6 million smackers.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 8:33 PM

Well, I also think this house, and the other two Lincoln Place ones that didn't sell, are very underwhelming and not worth $3 million.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 8:37 PM

this house is in PS 282. not a bad school, but not considered as "strong" as 321 or 29. 29 is in Cobble hill, btw.

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 9:41 PM

The age of Malinvestment. Keep building Condos!! Build build build!! Build places that no one can afford. Keep loaning money to people that can't pay it back. Keep fraud going in our financial markets. Just keep the bullshit going.

When it blows up maybe, just maybe things can go back to normal.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at February 20, 2008 9:41 PM

282 is pretty bad, dude.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 9:01 AM

Recessed lighting? Let's talk about the recessed economy.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 12:31 PM

People, recessed lighting is not for romantic dinners, it's for using your living room as a family room like most New Yorkers have to do. Someone said recessed lighting was "harsh". Well, yeah. Exactly. Because when you're cleaning, or you're reading, or your children are playing in that room, you need a more brightly lit room.

We don't have recessed lighting. But I need to figure something out because our antique sconces aren't cutting it! I'm in there cleaning and I'm like, hmm well it LOOKS clean, but who knows because it's so dim in here. We bought a floor lamp for reading but it's like a spotlight for one person to read when the book is held in a certain position.

Someday I'd like some recessed lighting on a dimmer switch, along with the antique sconces and chandelier. All on different switches so I could design my lighting. Meanwhile I'm buying a helmet with a light attached to it to wear when cleaning. Like a coal miner.

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 12:43 PM

"Meanwhile I'm buying a helmet with a light attached to it to wear when cleaning."

Please post pics, rowr!

Posted by: guest at February 21, 2008 4:36 PM