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February 26, 2008
213 Cumberland Slinks Back to LPC
Apparently someone blew the whistle on the owners of 213 Cumberland Street in Fort Greene for altering the fence around their brownstone. (The inset photo shows how the fence looked last year before the alterations.) The violation was particularly noticeable because of the property's corner location across the street from the entrance to Fort Greene Park. (According to LPC, the owners also put in some new windows without getting them approved first.) As a result, they're going in front of LPC today to try to get retroactive approval. Frankly, we think this fence looks a little silly and is too prominent to let slide. We bet Olde Good Things has some old iron fencing in its warehouse that would look a lot better. Update: We just heard from LPC that the hearing on 213 Cumberland ended up getting laid over until next week.
Agenda 2/26/08 [Landmarks Preservation Commission] GMAP
Photo by Scott Bintner for PropertyShark
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Comments
You think it looks sillier than the bowling pins they used to have.
Its that recessed lighting thing, right?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:12 AM
The applicant didn't come to the community board, so it voted to recommend that LPC disapprove the application due to non-cooperation.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:13 AM
beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I think the arrows are kinda fun, in a Wild West way.
You people have to lighten up a bit. Jeez.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:15 AM
Are they done? This is not the finial fence.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:15 AM
I think it looks a LOT better -- and I'm against buying anything from that cult Good Olde Things (sucks if you're a woman in that cult...)
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:17 AM
this is why landmarking often confuses me. i thought the whole purpose of landmarking was to ensure that houses look more like the "after" photo above and less like the "before" photo. the new fence is a big improvement, regardless of whether it is historically contextual.
Posted by: z at February 26, 2008 11:17 AM
it definitely looked way worse before
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:17 AM
i agree. the before was hideous.
like the after.
how could lpc hate white windows, but not white bowling pin like fences?
idiots.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:20 AM
The need to get the 1939 tax photo and put that fence in the photo back up...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:20 AM
looks a helluva lot better NOW. not a big fan of the arrows but they are better than the bowling pins!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:20 AM
Looks like they also cut down a tree or two.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:20 AM
Looks like they also cut down a tree or two.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:20 AM
Agrees the old picture looked like bowling pins setup around the walk. The new one is much much better. LPC is idiotic if the don't approve this vast improvement.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:22 AM
The standard isn't whether they made a marginal improvement; it's that any improvement like this must be approved by LPC before it's done.
Posted by: brownstoner at February 26, 2008 11:28 AM
so they would make them take the better looking one down out of spite because they didn't get it approved first?
lpc sounds a bit too much like a nazi regime to me.
so they f*cked up. it looks better. people make mistakes.
if they don't approve the new one, please do keep us posted. i'll be writing a letter to lpc myself.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:33 AM
I remember what this place looked like in 2000--a complete wreck with a huge bulging brick side wall and missing windows and then they finally put up a sidewalk shed after many complaints.
The house has been significantly improved since then and I'm sure the whole Landmarks/reno job has been exhausting.
The fence does look silly and it should have a Landmarks violation for it. BUT these people are far from "evil" or "kniving" for putting this fence up. They've done an excellent job up unitl this point.
Something to keep in mind.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:35 AM
To me it looks like they just painted the old and added on top...most likely for a bit more security. Looks fine to me.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:35 AM
Um, you guys?
It's the SAME FENCE. The white balusters have been painted black, and the cast-iron arrows added above. It looks to me like there is supposed to be a cast-iron bannister (not sure if that's the right word when it's not a staircase) atop the balusters.
I think it's a little over the top, but certainly more in keeping with the area's historic style than your remarks imply. No question they shoulda run it by LPC, though -- the financial risks alone of having to do it over make that a no-brainer.
Posted by: etmthree at February 26, 2008 11:36 AM
If this was Carroll Gardens it would have a nativity scene in it.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:37 AM
If this were in Carroll Gardens, there would be 10 pink flamingos behind the fence.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:39 AM
Who lives in this place, Vlad the Impaler?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:42 AM
I totally dig this fence - i like the physical break between the old and the new, and how the new part floats out over the old.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:48 AM
They're more "spearing" than "kniving".
But I do really really dislike sneaks and dumbasses. They were cheap and tried to get away with it, now they're gonna have to pay double.
Fact is, you're sitting on some valuable property. It's a very visible area. Take some responsibility.
I have a similar property. We went to great lengths to satisfy the LPC. It was time-consuming, expensive. Yeah, we could've cut corners and just "seen what happens". Fact is, though, the very reason our house is valuable, as is this one, is because of LPC and their nazi ways. If they weren't around, there would be no brownstone brooklyn, there would be no Brownstoner to pontificate on, and there would be far less property value.
Have some class, dish out some cash, put in some time, make the effort.
And while you're at it, learn about the history that's making you so rich. What was there before? Why?
This fence is just a frankenstein's monster, the landscaping is half-assed christmas tree farm. A giant "Whatever" sign should be hanging from their door.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:57 AM
Um, you guys?
WE KNOW it's the same fence. But it has an addition, it's been straightened, and it's painted. LOOKS GREAT!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:57 AM
While I'm a bit on the fence, and damn if this one ain't painful to be on, I agree with Brownstoner and 11:57 that the LPC process is necessary. Of course it would be a lot more palatable if it wasn't so costly and time-consuming, but it's benefits outweight the costs.
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 12:02 PM
I'm pretty sure that white "bowling pin" look was primer.
The fence is ghetto, sorry.
I think this is a rental.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:03 PM
Biff, I actually chuckled. Shame on you for that bad pun. And on me.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:03 PM
Oops, I meant outweigh. Fingers too fast. And for the record, I actually dig the fence as well.
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 12:04 PM
"THE FENCE HAS AN ADDITION".
I think that says it all. Hilarious.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:05 PM
brownstoner says: "The standard isn't whether they made a marginal improvement; it's that any improvement like this must be approved by LPC before it's done."
but you're describing this homeowner as if they painted the house purple. when you say they "slink" back to LPC, the fence is too "silly" to let slide, etc., you're suggesting they did something other than improve the appearance of their property. ok, they didn't use the proper procedural channels, but does that seriously warrant a callout like this? i understand when you go off on scarano, illegal demolitions, and the like, but i don't get it when you single out specific homeowners who are genuinely trying to improve their proprerty.
Posted by: z at February 26, 2008 12:05 PM
The LPC is a bunch of fucking house nazi's. Plus fuck the Asshat's who rat on their Neighbors. Back in the day you fix your house and that was it. If you paint your door, there are fucking snitch sites (like this one) to call LPC. Fuck you LPC!!!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Brownstoner is the area's biggest snitch.....
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:08 PM
I would like see a cannon or two behind that fence.
Posted by: Left Hook at February 26, 2008 12:10 PM
The What, did you wake up on the wrong side of the broomstick today? It'll be okay. Relax, take a deep breath and slowly move away from any sharp objects and windows on high floors...
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 12:11 PM
Guest February 26, 2008 11:57 AM is right on the money.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:15 PM
Are you kidding? It looks MUCH better now.
11:17 A.M. - Please share the background story on Olde Good Things. Thanks!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:16 PM
The What, Do the Opposite of what Biff said.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:17 PM
11:36 has it right.
it has taken these guys well over 18 months to put up that fence. it was sitting half finished (the "before" photo) for almost a year before they painted it and added the top half. i always wondered why it took them so long to put that thing in. it seemed like it took them 6+ months just to get to the state you see in the "before" photo.
if i remember correctly, the original fence from many years ago was a seriously eroded cast iron fence that looked like a 50s or 60s cheap replacement for the original.
while the fence is an odd design, i think the owners did a pretty good job sprucing that corner lot up overall. i never even noticed the non-approved windows.
Posted by: benno at February 26, 2008 12:21 PM
I personally think "z" is correct.
I can't believe this homeowner is being ostricized here on this blog today for trying to improve their property.
So they need to go through a few more steps. Is this Aushwitz?
Now everyone can walk by Ft. Greene Park and throw spitballs at these HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE PEOPLE!
HOW DARE THEY TRY TO IMPROVE THEIR HOME!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:22 PM
"If they weren't around, there would be no brownstone brooklyn, there would be no Brownstoner to pontificate on, and there would be far less property value."
You're exaggerating. LPC can share some of the credit but not all.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:22 PM
"The What, did you wake up on the wrong side of the broomstick today? It'll be okay. Relax, take a deep breath and slowly move away from any sharp objects and windows on high floors..."
Ok! Asshat nummber one. The LPC adds cost to a improvement or renovation of your house. You have to hire a architect to do improvements to your own house???!!! Get the fuck out of there. The LPC is there to fuck people over. Example: 70 Lefferts Pl. The developer brought that property to build condos. They was going to tear down the house and build. The block isn't landmarked and some fuckhead calls the LPC. What the LPC do??!! They landmarked the fucking house!!!!!! 2.4 Million dollars down the fucking drain and blight for years to come. Why??!!! Because people can't mind their own fucking business!!! so fuck LPC and Fuck you!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:22 PM
Yeah, what's up with old goode things creepy womenfolk?
And who cares what all of you think is "better" -- the previous paint was half-missing and primed, not painted. It had to be fixed but fixed properly not cheaply.
I'm so tired of hearing people claim that you can do whatever you want if it's your property. BS. It's a landmarked area. Not many out there. Dont like it, move.
Next time you're on some trip to romantic Paris or Florence or some little fishing village in Spain, keep in my that you're a total hypocrite. The reason those places are so beautiful and appealing is because they've been painstakingly preserved and protected.
Americans have this weird sense of absolute entitlement -- if I own it, I can paint it vomit colors. Maybe in some places, but where we have unique architecture, this stuff is a public LEGACY. You didn't build this building, it was preserved for your fat ass to be able to live in and show off about. But this legacy belongs to ALL OF US. You want to be tasteless, do it in your house. Don't do it in everyone's face.
And this is regardless of what I personally think about this fence. I could think it's lovely, doesn't matter. It's not up to me or the owner. Thank god.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:23 PM
That's such an awesome story, the What. Made my day.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:24 PM
The What, while it's difficult formulating a response to your eloquent self-proclaimed rants, it's hard to resist at the same time.
Yes, the LPC adds costs and delays in renovating/improving homes, but they also help maintain the integrity of neighborhoods overall. While I'm not their biggest supporter, despite your seeming misconception, I do see them as important in preservation. I think you're a tad paranoid (and ignorant) if you truly think their mission is solely to f*ck people over.
As for the sharp objects, feel free to ignore my earlier advice to you.
Asshat "nummber" one
aka
Biff Champion
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 12:31 PM
Olde Good Things (did some research) are part of a christian cult called COBU(Church of Bible Understanding). They have 80 members. (Many of whom work at OGT)
Here's the wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Bible_Understanding
Heres' the relevant part:
COBU owns and operates an antique business called Olde Good Things, recently profiled in the New York Times[7], with no reference to its associations with the group. Olde Good Things and its connection to COBU was featured in an article in The New Yorker of July 30, 2007 pp.29-30. Through Olde Good Things COBU has outposts in California and likely in a number of other states as well. COBU also runs a mission in Haiti. According to an article originally appearing in the Manassas Journal Messenger, COBU receives government funds for its Haiti Mission as part of President Bush's Faith Based Initiative[8].
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:35 PM
the before fence was a non-verbal banner that said loud and clear "WELCOME TO THE GHETTO USA" the after picture is still very tacky but at least not as blaring. The LPC will never approve it. The owners need to bite the bullet, or the spear, and do the right thing.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:35 PM
I generally hate it when Brownstoner persecutes private homes and private people on this site. But this fence is just asking for it. The busiest, most noticeable part of Ft Greene. Who did these people think they were kidding, not submitting to LPC?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:37 PM
The folks at Olde Good Things are hippie jesus freaks who made some great real estate investments back in the 70's. They'll have some nice fencing to satisfy the LPC.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:39 PM
um, 70 lefferts place is the perfect example of the value of the LPC.
that yellow mansion is beautiful inside and out (my best friend used to rent there). and the neighborhood is much better off having it remain as is, much to the chagrin of the developer and most likely the seller as well. LPC listened to the community and saved a great piece of old brooklyn.
i'm still not sure why the developer didn't just buy the totally vacant lot next door and build there....
Posted by: benno at February 26, 2008 12:40 PM
The fence would look much better with heads of realtors atop the spears.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:41 PM
Reply to Biff: 5 years ago there was no LPC!!!! The brownstones have been in place of over 90 years!! But when the Assfucks and House Nazi's move in the hood, we have all this bullshit now!!!!!! Look what happen to the poor old man that live on Grand Ave (Brownie Block). He was priming his doors to paint them and what this assfuck do! Put him on BLAST!!! LPC suits people who have a agenda and fucks over others. Now biff I have the sharp obbject in my hand. DUCK!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:41 PM
This one really hurts, man. They've done some great work on their house.
It begs the question: Do some people just not KNOW they're in a landmark district?
I watched this fence go up with a mixture of confusion and dismay. The pieces on the bottom are fine, and appear to be intended to match their stair railings. Which they do, perfectly. But then the ironworker topped them off with a hideous, flat piece of iron--unfinished, ugly, makes no sense. And then he adds those way-too-tall, out of proportion arrows? Why so tall? Seeking more security?
In any case, I feel really sorry for the owner, but I don't see how LPC can do anything but force them to remove the top half and start over.
Posted by: Rehab at February 26, 2008 12:42 PM
although i on the street from the yellow house and am thrilled it will not become an 75 ft tall appartment building as originally designed, (i saw the plans which were ridiculous and it is the same builder that is doing the FSBO half ass job on St James between lefferts and Fulton) i HATE the LPC interfering on issues like this. the reason this neighborhood will eventually become unicultural is because of the LPC. Basically every person who lives here with an income less than 200k will never be able to make any improvements on their home because it is so fucking costly. F*ck the LPC and all of you f*cking trust fund douches who think it's your duty to police people's private property. MY guess it was probably brownstoner himself who reported this. After all it's his mission in life to be uber important and empowered. I walked by today and though the place looked better than ever. I remember when that type of long speared fencing was everywhere in NYC until that guy Julio fell off the fence and speared himself threw his jaw and they had to bring a torch in to tae Julio and the fence to the hospital.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:43 PM
"12:22 PM
I can't believe this homeowner is being ostricized here on this blog today for trying to improve their property.
HOW DARE THEY TRY TO IMPROVE THEIR HOME!"
Get over it.
They were forced to improve their property...you think they would make ANY attempt otherwise? So yes they should get a spit ball or two. right in the asshat.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:44 PM
"um, 70 lefferts place is the perfect example of the value of the LPC.
that yellow mansion is beautiful inside and out (my best friend used to rent there). and the neighborhood is much better off having it remain as is, much to the chagrin of the developer and most likely the seller as well. LPC listened to the community and saved a great piece of old brooklyn."
If you feel that way then, Cough up the 2.4 million sale price. The owner WILL default on that mortgage. The house was not a landmark when he bought that house, so why put the owner in that situation. He had a goal of making money on that project and the LPC Butfucked him.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:45 PM
Its cool The What, at least you don't have some stupid name like "biff". I think you are the coolest. If it weren't for you I wouldn't even bother reading this blog crap. Keep ranting.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:46 PM
benno, that's a great point. While the What may not mind developers razing beautiful mansions in Brooklyn to put up condos, some of us do. Someone should tell him he doesn't have to worry about the LPC as I highly doubt the rock under which he lives is landmarked.
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 12:47 PM
the what just proved that instead of being the "Sage of Recession". He's just a bitter motherfucker.
I mean the RAGE against the LPC?
Dude, there's drugs you can take for this.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:47 PM
Some people here don't seem to get the point:
When you live in a landmark district, it's your responsibility to put up a fence that looks like the original, that preserves the character of the hood.
This fence is ridiculous. Topping those nice bowling-pin posts with a quarter-inch thick piece of flat iron looks terrible. Then, the problem gets compounded with those too-tall arrow sections. They should have put some kind of fat iron railing on top of the bowling pins, kept the puppy about waist-high, like all of their neighboring houses, submitted that plan to LPC as required by law, and called it a day.
Posted by: Rehab at February 26, 2008 12:48 PM
"benno, that's a great point. While the What may not mind developers razing beautiful mansions in Brooklyn to put up condos, some of us do"
See Assfuck That's not the point!!! Don't try to shift this argument. My point is people should mind there own fucking business!!!!!! How about I put your shit on the web or rat out when you try to improve your house. Maybe it's turning out to be like "1984"!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:52 PM
OHMIGOD can you imagine what Clinton Hill would look like right now if it did not have Landmark status? The luxury condo towers would be sprouting on every block. houses and churches would be bulldozed for mid-rise and high-rise development complexes one after the other. There would not be a browsntone block left intact. Not one. So you gotta take the good with the bad. The LPC staffers are nitpickers, and it can drive you crazy. but you should always get a permit BEFORE you spend time and money on an improvement like this. Otherwise it is basically illegal. What part of that is hard to understand? In an advanced society owners have to obey land-use rules. Landmarking happens to be part of that. End of story.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:52 PM
Some people here don't seem to get the point:
When you live in a landmark district, it's your responsibility to put up a fence that looks like the original, that preserves the character of the hood.
This fence is ridiculously out of proportion and too tall, and does not look like the original.
Topping those nice bowling-pin posts with a quarter-inch thick piece of flat iron looks terrible. Then, the problem gets compounded with those too-tall arrow sections. They should have put some kind of fat iron railing on top of the bowling pins, kept the puppy about waist-high, like all of their neighboring houses, submitted that plan to LPC as required by law, and called it a day.
Posted by: Rehab at February 26, 2008 12:54 PM
I thought Clinton Hill already DID look like that.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 12:58 PM
"OHMIGOD can you imagine what Clinton Hill would look like right now if it did not have Landmark status? The luxury condo towers would be sprouting on every block. houses and churches would be bulldozed for mid-rise and high-rise development complexes one after the other."
Nope Nope Nope!!! You miss the point! If not for the Mutant Real Estate Bubble there wouldn't be any assfucks building shit!!! It was greed that drove this asset bubble and douchbag motherfuckers!!! For years no builld any thing in these neighborhoods and now we have cheap money, everyone is a investor. Everybody wants a brownstone in da hood and with that you get the assfucks
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:02 PM
I believe that the original fence was pre-revolutionary era. It was the feather and arrow design and it was supported by lean-to metal work. This is similar to pre-revolution fencing in lower Manhattan. It is a crime that this family tore this original fencing apart. The original is not the huge things they have put up. And it is disgusting that they tore apart the original fence to top the bottom ugly section. Yuck, yuck. Landmarks fines probably won't phase these people. They think they are above the law. They have violations already for their horrible bay windows and for their actual windows.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:04 PM
The fence would be far less tacky if they had chosen to take a few of the dolls out of their windows and impaled a few on the stately new iron arrows, IMO.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:05 PM
The What, ok, so your point is everyone should mind their own business. I guess that means developers can bulldoze whatever they could get their paws on. Why not let them turn Prospect Park into a subdivision and the Brooklyn Museum into a parking lot?
By the way, you might benefit by taking an ESL course or two. But I do enjoy your witty repartee: Asshat, Assfuck, can't wait to see what other bon mots you have up your sleave.
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 1:06 PM
I have lived in this neighborhood all my life and it's look the same way. When the assfucks stated to come in, you have all this shit going on!!!! The Hood has changed in the LAST 5 YEARS!!! Not much before then, so why we need a LPC??!! So it will be come expensive to do any thing. We don't need a LPC, we need the asshats to chill!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end..
BTW I was born and raised here for 45 years!!!! Fake ass Brooklyn fucks!!!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:08 PM
Brooklyn is a borough of immigrants, the What.
You don't know a lot about the place where you were raised.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:12 PM
"The What, ok, so your point is everyone should mind their own business. I guess that means developers can bulldoze whatever they could get their paws on. Why not let them turn Prospect Park into a subdivision and the Brooklyn Museum into a parking lot?"
The brownstones have been here for EVER!!!!!!!!! The neighborhood has not change much, until 5 years ago!!!!!!! At the start of the Assets Bubble!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
I hope wee have a asset crash. I what to see who stays and who goes.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:12 PM
anyone who hopes we have an asset crash is not too much farther gone than a terrorist.
so you hope all of your neighborhs become homeless essentially?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:14 PM
The LPC was created in 1965, in great part due to the destruction of the original Penn Station, an architectural masterpiece by McKim, Mead and White. We can see the POS that replaced it. Grand Central Station and other important buildings were saved because we now have the power of landmarking. They aren't perfect, but I'm glad we have them. The US is way behind other developed countries in protecting its architecture.
Also most people have a great misconception about how the LPC works in a landmark district. They are willing to work with people, recommend products and alternatives for the replacement of historical detail, and can refer you to financial agents for very low interest rate loans. As in dealing with any city agency, there are horror stories, but all in all, they are the good guys. If we didn't have a landmarks law, most of our desirable neighborhoods would look very different. And not in a good way.
Preservationista
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:15 PM
The What, may I recommend you read Anger Management for Dummies?
I assume since you're hoping for an asset crash that you don't have many assets, other than your supreme command of the English language.
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 1:17 PM
Neighborhoods have immigrants. Brooklyn has been the same for years. But now you have Chinese moving in Bensonhurst. Hipsters moving in to the hood and Assfucks (Like Brownstoner) moving into Clinton Hill and Trust fund Asshats moving into Park Slope. Why??!! Free money baby, just sign you life away. Be a debt slave, believe you own something. Yeah right.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:18 PM
Preservationista, you said it all. Thanks.
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 1:18 PM
You guys are gonna find this shit hard to believe, but I remember when this property and the one next door use to have crackheads living in them and the owner, who use to own a hardware store and gave me my first job could not find a buyer for this property and the asking price was $150.000. I had the keys and would let people in to view the place. I remember people saying things like, "bad neighborhood", "too close to the park", "fort greene is a lousy neighborhood" What a Difference a Day Makes.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:19 PM
"The What, may I recommend you read Anger Management for Dummies?"
One thing that would help. Let me kick you ass. I would feel better after that. Get some stress off/
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:20 PM
Oh my God, the What, are you serious?? Chinese are moving into Bensonhurst!!! God help us all! Time to pack up and move to Toledo!!
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 1:20 PM
People who still rail agaisnt the landmarks law are reactionary idiots. It's like railing against the civil rights laws that date from the same era. Ridiculous. Grow up!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:21 PM
The What, in the words of Samuel Johnson, "You raise your voice when you should reinforce your argument".
Posted by: Biff Champion at February 26, 2008 1:23 PM
regardless of what anyone thinks about the fence or regardless of your views on what should and shouldn't be allowed when it comes to personal/private property: if you buy a landmarked property, it comes with strings attached. that means you submit proposed changes to the LPC, period. if you get caught cheating, that's the risk you ran by going commando.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:25 PM
"Chinese are moving into Bensonhurst!!! "
Yes they are!! Big time!!! You see I'm in all neighborhoods. I have friends (yes I do LOL) all over brooklyn.
The What Someday this war is gonna end..
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:29 PM
The What has lived here for 45 yrs and has grammar like that?
Jesus, I am NOT sending my kid to school in Brooklyn!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:31 PM
12:43 you're completely misinformed. In the bad old 70s and 80s, the city paid people to upgrade their homes. My friends got building for a dollar if they would do a minimum renovation. This was a way for the city to help blighted communities.
Furthermore, just because you own a building, it doesn't mean you can do anything you want with it. It's called THE F*CKING LAW. (to use some of one of your favorite words). That goes from everything from building code to parks department code to, in this lucky ducking's case, the very minimal and cheap issue of a fence.
And please don't get me started on the whole "trust fund" comment. Most of my landmarked block is owned by people who've lived here and worked their asses off for decades, and they make the most improvements to their homes and are the greatest contribution to our neighborhood.
Why don't you try working a little, saving a little, going to a different community than this now-established one, say Yonkers, and contribute -- maybe in 30 years time you'll know what this is about.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:52 PM
HIDEOUS fence. Truly hideous.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 1:53 PM
B'stoner is wrong to begin with. the original fence was not the white bowling pins, it was a straight wrought iron fence that was destroyed when a car accident sent one of the vehichles flying thru the fence, destroying it. the white bowling pins are what are the bottom part of the new fence, just painted black and then they added the upper part.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:00 PM
That's not the fence, 1:53...I think you just had a peak in the mirror...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:01 PM
"that yellow mansion is beautiful inside and out (my best friend used to rent there)"
Apparently someone hasn't been inside that "mansion" recently. The front doors have been stolen, ripped out when the developer said he was going to tear the place down. at least 2 fireplaces were ripped out, all the bathrooms were ransacked, lead paint is everywhere. the houses foundation is so settled that you can't stand up straight in the back part of the house. i'm serious it's ridiculous how bad it is. the exterior, while painted yellow has a leaking drain pipe which has totally rotted one side of the house. The only redeeming quality is the amazingly well preserve stairway. It's a 2.5 million dollar dumpe that was renovated on the cheap a few years back. That developer is losing like 15k a month easy on mortgage costs alone, although it is deductable. I was at the landmarks meeting. It was a disgrace. This developer buys a shitty house for too much money in a non landmarked block next to a white castle and a polluted empty lot full of formelgahide and other toxins dumped in the ground by the old funeral parlor and suddenly the LPC decides to vote ON THE SPOT to landmark this house because some fucking chick read this shitty ass poetry and started crying on the spot about the downfall of brooklyn Fucking the owner in the ass. We don't even get a stop sign on this street or a cop walking the beat after 3 shootings in 2 years but we get a landmarked derelict 150 year old POS that will sit there forever rotting into a shithole. If it wasn't painted yellow 5 years ago it would have been this disgusting white shithole. as a matter of fact it WAS. Welcome home, shithole!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:03 PM
hey 1:52
12:43 here, i really was just talKing shit just trying to get THE WHAT to respond on another rant because i wanted to be amused by while sitting at starbucks in between interviews. that being said in 30 year's i'm pretty sure I'll be dead.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:11 PM
The before picture does not accurately depict how before was. Before there was a straight fence like other that dot the neighborhood. The white fence was the beginning of the the ugly fence.
They really destroyed the outside of this house. They also park two huge SUVS right in their little driveway. Also, they have a yello kitchen with brown moldings.
They ruined that place. Just goes to show that you can be rich and have terrible taste. I am glad someone blew the whistle.
Posted by: cgriggs at February 26, 2008 2:13 PM
2:03 Well said, Well Well said.
The What
Someday This war is gonna end..
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:14 PM
Brownstoner,
You should edit this picture. It is not the original one. The white bowling pins are part of this new fence. The old one was wrought iron, the old school nice looking kind.
tks
Posted by: cgriggs at February 26, 2008 2:18 PM
2:11 -- good luck with that interview. You're gonna croak because of the caffeine addiction, or because you're already old? Just curious.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:20 PM
I live right across from that yellow house and i LOVE the LPC! But i'm being selfish. I've only been here 2 years or so but one of the reasons i actually bought my place was because we like walking out every day and seeing that yellow house. I hope it does get occupied soon. And more importantly I loved the idea that we could landmark our block long term. Although there are definitely pros and cons I think the benefits should outwiegh the costs over the long LONG LONG term. Even if right now I'm scrambling to get any work down before this ever happens because there is no way i can afford to do everything by the book according to the LPC. I did a lot of research and man all that stuff really adds up. it adds up even without the landmarks process.
I was also at the LPC hearing, it was a great event and the process works. If you had seen the size of the appartment building they wanted to put in, it would have really changed the dynamics of this street. In look and feel.
Posted by: brokestone at February 26, 2008 2:22 PM
can't wait till starbucks has their industry-wide shutdown later today.
HATE that place.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:24 PM
" i really was just talKing shit just trying to get THE WHAT to respond on another rant because i wanted to be amused by while sitting at starbucks in between interviews"
So you are a broke assed trust baby, Huh? They have jobs at the sperm bank. Let them blow-off in your mouth and you can so the seamen count.
"I live right across from that yellow house and i LOVE the LPC! But i'm being selfish. I've only been here 2 years"
Motherfucking Douchebag hipster assfuck. Hey bitch. 70 Lefferts Pl. will become a eyesore for years to come. Bringing down the values of that block. That comment " I've only been here 2 years" was all i need to reply to your drivel. That block has been fucked for years and maybe the Building would've been a improvement.
"This developer buys a shitty house for too much money in a non landmarked block next to a white castle and a polluted empty lot full of formelgahide and other toxins dumped in the ground by the old funeral parlor and suddenly the LPC decides to vote ON THE SPOT to landmark this house because some fucking chick read this shitty ass poetry and started crying on the spot about the downfall of brooklyn "
I remember the funeral home. Plus I always wonder why the lot next door didn't sell. Well maybe someday that block will improve.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:36 PM
Hey WHAT: This is your attitude in a nutshell: "That comment " I've only been here 2 years" was all i need to reply to your drivel."
Why bother replying? You're just a broken record. It's the same racist prejudiced bullshit we've had to endure for centuries. "I just took one look at your skin color; all I needed was the spelling of your last name; as soon as I saw the friends you hang out with -- I KNEW HOW TO REPLY."
And the reply is always the same: ignorant.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:54 PM
>>"WELCOME TO THE GHETTO USA"
I am SO sick of comments like this. The corner house with the somewhat overwrought "bowling pin" fence sat abandoned and totally messed up for years and years. The house has been made whole by people who took on a HUGE task. While it looks as if corners were cut here and there, overall, this house has been improved substantially. Nothing enduring has been revised in a bad way. Anything "not period" can be changed later on. I am so freaking sick of this "Holly Hobby" phony victoriana passing for good taste these days. If it's not Hallmark Card TV perfect, it's no good.
This house looks great. The fence seems like an exploration in sliding parts and security. This end house is a gateway to the rest of the back yards all of the way over to Lafayette and it looks like they want to park cars in the back. I don't love it, it doesn't suit MY needs but the owner's needs are probably a little different than mine. It suits the community's needs fine. Leave the owners the hell alone - they did a good enough job. The fence can be changed later when Prince Charles and Camilla move in and nothing has been wrecked permanently.
Welcome to the Ghetto indeed. The only ghetto I see around here is the lack of imagination between some asshole's ears.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:56 PM
The balusters look right to me. That is the style of fence baluster one would expect to see on a mid-nineteenth century brownstone. Those balusters are pretty standard and easy to get. What is not standard and very hard to get is the big wide handrail that tops off the balusters. Especially with the curved corner. For some reason, no one makes these.
So people have to go with salvage. You would think with the prices of these houses being what they are and with the sheer number of houses these parts would be easier to get today than fifteen years ago, but they are not.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 2:57 PM
"Hey WHAT: This is your attitude in a nutshell: "That comment " I've only been here 2 years" was all i need to reply to your drivel."
Why bother replying? You're just a broken record. It's the same racist prejudiced bullshit we've had to endure for centuries. "I just took one look at your skin color; all I needed was the spelling of your last name; as soon as I saw the friends you hang out with -- I KNEW HOW TO REPLY."
And the reply is always the same: ignorant"
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????.
You fail.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:01 PM
The current owners purposely destroyed the existing original beautiful fence which was in perfect shape when they bought the house. Landmarks got written confirmation from their architect that they wouldn't ruin this fence. And they did exactly what they please. The giant baluster's aren't original. They have no precedent in this neighborhood at all. These owners have the money but not the taste or the common sense to deal with historic preservation.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:01 PM
I think it odd that those who are so quick to throw around the very racially-tingued "ghetto" as a negative descriptor are also seemingly adopting the criminal class ethos of "death to snitches." If someone were running a dangerous business or had a chimney which was about to fall on someone would it be wrong for a neighbor to call the city about it? I think not. In the case of Landmarks many people have worked very hard to establish architectural review of construction in certain historic neighborhoods. Once that framework is in place, how can it be wrong to insist that all play be the same rules? This particular house seems to have been renovated by someone with diminished appreciation of the historic details - the paint job on the bay window, the use of the back yard as a parking lot for enormous trucks visible from the street and plantings which would look better in in Suess-land or in Brighton Beach, for example. None of these elements are the equivalent of a gas leak or a pig slaughterhouse in a residential neighborhood, but the historic fabric of a neighborhood dies slowly the death of a thousand cuts if the landmark rules are not adhered to. And reporting violations is socially acceptable - at least to me.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at February 26, 2008 3:03 PM
3:01
what are you talking about? The balusters match the stoop balusters. what do you mean there is no precedent? These are perfectly standard nineteenth century style balusters.
That's why you need a Landmarks Commission to tell people no, no, no, no, yes! Most people don't know anything about architectural styles or design.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:14 PM
2:56, "an exploration in sliding parts and security"? What is that, undergrad Pratt speak? It's a fence that, as someone put it, has an addition on it. nothing exploratory about it. They're cheap.
What kind of security do you want? Who's gonna jump your 2' fence who's NOT gonna jump your 4' fence?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:24 PM
I don't understand what the f*** they want from this fence in Cumberland. It is a nice fence and if I was the owner I'd tell the neighbors to go take a hike! by the way no one has the authority to do anything about that!
The landmark commission is a myth!
And stop this "we think.. bla bla bla" none sense, who are you to even think? sounds like you want to shape Brooklyn the way you want it.
You sounds like an authority on Brooklyn, who are you? loser! When the "Brownstoners" are going to own half of what I and my friends own in Brooklyn than we will talk. Losers!
I have a solution for you: buy Brooklyn and shape it. Nobody cares what you think.
We look at "Brownstorner" as a place for info
mainly on what's going on in the area that's all. It is amazing how "Brownstoner" and the losers here think they are making a difference and Scarano's type of architects and developers are laughing all the way to the bank! funny isn't it?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:26 PM
A discussion of the Landmarks Commission really brings out the under-medicated.
Such nut jobs. What anarchist-loon society do they have the delusion of living in?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:30 PM
The formerly white bowling pin balusters are made of plastic. The fence is astonishingly ugly. The SUVs in the backyard are even uglier.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:33 PM
Is anybody (Mr. B?) going to attend the LPC meeting to report on LPC's opinion, here? They're a little more likely than we armchair quarterbacks to know all the facts about this case.
What the f*** they want from this fence, 3:26, is a fence that complies with the law that was established via our straight-up democratic process in 1981, BEFORE these people bought the house. What's so hard to understand about that?
Personally, I'm amazed that anybody finds this fence attractive--it's a total mishmash, and, again, it's two tall.
But whatever. I know this stuff isn't easy to find, nor is it cheap.
Thank GOD the neighborhood is landmarked. As was said before, otherwise, easily half our beautiful brownstones would be long gone, replaced with Dewitt Condo-type Fedders crap, soaring hideously into the sky. And a debate like this one wouldn't even be happening.
Posted by: Rehab at February 26, 2008 3:42 PM
Um, "too" tall, actually.
But more important, its proportions are totally out of whack--something some of you guys just don't seem to grasp. Some of y'all must have had the art classes slashed when you were in grade school....
Posted by: Rehab at February 26, 2008 3:46 PM
3:33, Well put and funny too.
"A discussion of the Landmarks Commission really brings out the under-medicated.
Such nut jobs. What anarchist-loon society do they have the delusion of living in? "
All these people would be screaming and hollering if someone put a flamingo-pink canopy next to their house, with giant flamingo shaped balustrades right next to their entrance, so they looked like they were living in a florida retirement commmunity.
But because its "ok" and "not white", there's no issue.
This has nothing to do with taste, morons. LPC isn't about judging if something is pretty or not. They could give a fuck. They want what's historically appropriate. And they have to be able to back up their decision, with documentation.
You can sue them if you think their decision is unfounded, and people have infact won against the LPC before.
But y'all are hollering about TASTE. Nobody cares what you think is ok or "better". MOVE TO FLORIDA please.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 3:56 PM
That's it? Just 112 comments about a fence at Cumberland and DeKalb? Or is this just the dinner break?
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 5:25 PM
It's Intermission. Everyone will be back shortly.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 6:08 PM
The tWhat is a renter who is afraid of being kicked out of his hood by people with money.
Hey tWhat, don't move to Bed-Stuy. WE like our hood the way it is - asshat free.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 6:27 PM
It must also be said that the owner of this property is Dolly Williams who finally got kicked off as Brooklyn's sole voting Comission member of the Dept of City Planning. She was put in by Marty Markowitz. And she runs a contracting company on 3rd Ave. She is one of those crony types. She invested $1m in Atlantic Yards. And it is expected that she will get a big chunck of the construction work there. Which dovetails nicely for all those suits because her firm is owned by a member of a minority group and so of course they get to say how they will give a lot of work to minority run construction companies. It's very cozy in big fat cat world. And so it's nice to see that NYC Landmarks isn't just sitting on their hands when it comes to this mess of a house. Both upper and lower portions of this fence are wrong here. And how did they get away with cutting up the original fence? Rich people like this should have to pass an IQ test before they are allowed to get a building permit. Scary to think this is the kind of attention to detail and other people's concerns and the law that we have to look forward to with the Atlantic Yards building process. We love ya Dolly!
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 8:26 PM
Clinton Hill was a ghetto until the day before yesterday. Now the houses sell for millions but the ghetto look does not disappear overnight. The truth hurts sometimes, but there it is.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 10:35 PM
Dolly Williams' house. she's a crook.
Posted by: guest at February 26, 2008 11:25 PM
this isn't even Clinton Hill - it is Fort Greene. So I guess the truth is rather elusive to you, isn't it 10:35?
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at February 27, 2008 7:33 AM
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