What the Heck Is Going On in Carroll Gardens?

I'm so bored with the Carroll Gardens threads that result in fights. If people like it there then let them live there and spend whatever. Who cares.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:41 AM

"Coincidence or conspiracy?"

Idiocy.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:42 AM

Too exensive? No way, too cheap.
Corcoran could get at LEAST 5-8 milliuon each for these.
Its Carroll Gardens.

Fuhgeddaboudit!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:42 AM

Corcoan is also listing an 800 sq ft apartment in Brooklyn Heights for $1.5M:

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1175788

Maybe they're just crazy.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:45 AM

It's the free crack they're sending home with kids at ps29.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:45 AM

It's a cartel effort.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:46 AM

I think it's one big hoax or a publicity stunt of some sort, especially the President Street & 3rd Place listings. Those are the worst offenders, in my opinion, and it would seem there's some sort of fraud or money laundering going on there.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:50 AM

Or maybe the it's a mob effort. The houses are probably all mafia owned.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:52 AM

Thing is, even in a good market these prices are absurd. Fake listings.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:53 AM

I think the brokers are desperate to make as much money as they did in 2001-2006, so to make up for the number of listings, they are trying to rape the few they have with outlandish prices.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:55 AM

I own in CG and I do think it's somewhat planned. Put alot of properties on the market at 2 and 3 million plus and suddenly everyone thinks those are typical prices in the neighborhood. I've no doubt the owners don't expect to get that and would be happy with bids significantly less, but still enormously high. (For example, that 3 story 3rd place one -- I'd be surprised if the owner turned down $2 million for that, with a listing price of 3.5 million.)

On the other hand, the market in Carroll Gardens has steadily increased over the last few years -- I just heard of a 20 ft wide 4 story on Summit between Henry and Hicks that sold for 2.1 million and I wouldn't have believed anyone would pay that much in that location but someone did. The huge improvement at PS 58 is one reason -- people are now clamoring to get their kids into the school from other places and only 6 years ago most newcomers to the neighborhood found ways to get their kids into PS 29. Also, the rise of Smith Street and south Court Street means that there's a very good quality of life. And despite people's claims to the contrary, the F train isn't that bad, and having it as the only subway line is simply not putting off buyers at all. (For that matter, it doesn't put off renters either -- I've never seen so many young hipsters renting in the neighborhood as I have in the last year).

The 4 listings here are still way overpriced, but I'd still guess that CG real estate generally is more valuable than in Ft. Green for example, despite not having the same beautiful housing stock.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:56 AM

i think corcoran needs to be investigated for fraudulent listings

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:58 AM

They're all crazy but the president street one is by far the most crazy since the reno job is truly hideous and cheap. Looks to me like greedy old timers with no clue about the market.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:59 AM

So, if I have $3+ million to spend on a house, tell me WHY I'd SPEND SUBSTANTIALLY MORE on a short and skinny house with an ugly suburban-guido renovation like 329 President Street, when I can get the Corcoran listings at Dean Street or Adelphi that are wide, 5-stories, and perfectly renovated (and $3.25 and $2.995 respectively). That's why I think these Carroll Gardens listings are bogus, bogus, bogus. They're not based on comps or history or anything remotely rational. And they're FUGLY!!

Links to Dean and Adelphi:
http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1170956&ohDat=2/3/2008%2012:00:00%20AM;
http://corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1169108&ohDat=2/3/2008%2012:00:00%20AM;

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:03 AM

10:56 = Broker

"I've never seen so many young hipsters renting in the neighborhood as I have in the last year"

comments like that give it away EVERY time.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:03 AM

Totally agreed it's price-fixing.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:04 AM

I've talked to a few people about this, and quite honestly, all of these listings and all the hype I hear about is Carroll Gardens on this site is ridiculous (mostly absurd...RISE of Smith Street?? It rose about 10 years ago...now it's DECLINING in my opinion. McDonalds and Starbucks does not indicate a rise in my book!!!).

I've always liked CG, but all this crap is starting to make me sour on the place. I was there the other night at Angry Wade's andI just don't like the people over there. The bar was FILLED with 16 year old old jersey girls. It was gross.

I MUCH prefer 5th Avenue in Park Slope.

It's now got all the same stores as Smith Street anyway, except without the Starbucks and American Apparel.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:07 AM

I thik everyone including developers, sellers and buyers should refuse to list with corcoran and have them investigated by some sort of standards board.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:08 AM

I really like CG but I do find these prices quite extraordinarily high. I can only assume that brokers are trying to wring the last ounce of commission out of buyers before the predicted real estate crash. I don't believe, however, that any of these houses will sell for the asking and I would expect several price cuts in the near future.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:10 AM

The odd thing from Corcoran's perspective is that these listings ruin their (already diminished) credibility everywhere else. I'm in the market to upgrade to a townhouse (looking in CG and Park Slope) myself, and I've always viewed Corcoran listings as generally overpriced. But these are so outlandish that now I no longer view their Brokers' babble about Brooklyn property values as good faith efforts to make a sale -I assume they are blatantly LYING.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:11 AM

these listings are not kosher...something's up.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:12 AM

I'm surprised this place hasn't come up on brownstoner yet, which has been on the market for a few months: http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=917798&rentalperiod=&SearchType=apartments&Region=NYC

It's not a house, but a co-op in a Carroll Gardens brownstone listed for $1.795 million! I went to see it a while back to see if they were crazy, and they are. While it's big, it's been over-renovated in a not-so-nice way. And still no price drop in sight. I don't think Corcoran are the only ones guilty of overpricing.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:15 AM

Corcoran is ruining the perfect reputation of Carroll Gardens.

Always known as a haven for the mob and money laundering, now known for money laundering and real estate fraud!

LONG LIVE BROOKLYN!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:17 AM

price fixing?
not kosher?
conspiracy?

the prices are high but why can't you ask?
it doesn't mean they will get them.
they are just greedy, plain and simple and the listings will sit on the market.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:18 AM

I hate it when people make everything about race, but I can't help saying it seems Corcoran is taking advantage of the fact some people will spend ANYthing not to live near black people. It's in Corcoran's interest too, because a couple of the historic brownstone neighborhoods that are more diverse, are dominated by another big realty firm. Corcoran wants to stake a claim in CG and force it to be a hot neighborhood they've cornered the market on.

How can CG cost more than Fort Greene, with Fort Greene's close proximity to Park Slope and all the cultural events at BAM, and close proximity to all the new developments coming in downtown Brooklyn. We don't own a house in Fort Greene, but it would have been the first place we'd go if we could have afforded it. I'd still move there if we can afford it sometime in the future.

I think a lot of what we see in neighborhoods inexplicably receiving a lot of interest, is due to the attitudes of those coming from Manhattan, the yuppies who sneered at Brooklyn just 5 years ago and now want to be here. Brooklyn used to pride itself on its diversity and liberal values. Remember those days? Now "diversity" is an insult to a neighborhood. You see it all the time here on this blog. I totally understand why the change in attitudes and values is off-putting to old timer Brooklyn residents.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:21 AM

"the prices are high but why can't you ask?"

Because, as you can tell it is ruining their reputation and turning a lot of people off!

Asking a million dollars over what a house is worth is not doing ANYONE any good.

And I believe these are all each 1 million overpriced.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:21 AM

11:07

"I was there the other night at Angry Wade's andI just don't like the people over there. The bar was FILLED with 16 year old old jersey girls. It was gross."

Wow, you had a bad time in the worst bar in the area. Go figure. Why on EARTH would you set foot in there anyways? The fact that you would chose that place over the 30-40 other spots in the Court/Smith area says more about you than the neighborhood.

Wades is frat-tastically bad.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:27 AM

11:28

Agreed. I walk by at least 10-12 realtor windows a day in CH and CG. There are some -glum- faces in those windows.

Its desperation time.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:32 AM

It's a conspiracy. My theory is that it makes the new condos (can't remember if it's 3rd or 4th Pl.) that are listed with Corcoran seem reasonable.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:33 AM

Why on EARTH would Carroll Gardens cost more than Park Slope??

I'm not saying CG isn't a nice neighborhood, but at least North Slope has the park, it has the 2/3 and Q Train and it has the shops of 5th, 7th and Vanderbilt nearby. Not to mention the Greenmarket, Library, Museum and Botanical Gardens within a 5 minute walk.

Why in god's name would ANYONE with a brain pay more for a house in CG if given the choice?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:34 AM

10:56 here and this is the first time I've been accused of being a broker. Sorry, I'm really not one, just someone who has lived in the neighborhood, as a renter and buyer, for the last 14 years. I do admit to an unhealthy interest in real estate (and definitely waste way too much time on this blog, however). And, having been someone who has accused others of being brokers, I guess I can't really complain when someone accuses me of being one.

Funny, I thought I was clear in my post that these prices were way over the top, so I don't know why that would make me a broker. I did list reasons why Carroll Gardens real estate had increased in value, but that didn't mean the prices weren't absurd.

But posters like 11:07 am simply post things with no knowledge of the neighborhood. First, yes, the rise of Smith Street BEGAN about 8 years ago. 10 years ago it was a dump -- I know because it was scary to walk down stretches of it late at night. Second, there are no Starbucks in Carroll Gardens, really, not a single one. (OK, there is one Dunkin Donuts, but hey, we're downmarket and not Starbuck snobs and that's what I like about it. )

There's also no McDonalds, unless you count the one on Hamilton Ave that's been there way longer than the rise in real estate values.

And, funny that my remark about too many young hipsters made you think I was a realtor. I'm just someone who stood in line way too long for a movie at the local cinema and realized that no one else there was over 30 (or maybe even 25). Same thing at the local restaurants lately. I just don't know where all these kids are coming from, but 5 years ago there were definitely not as many 20 somethings here unless they were pushing their newborns in strollers.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:36 AM

The President St house is not being sold by a greedy old-timer. The previous owner of the home passed away several years ago. The heirs sold the house about two years ago to an individual who gutted the home entirely, added an 18-foot extension on the back (how he got around DOB, I'll never know), and now has flipped the house for more than 2x what he paid for it. This is a fact.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:40 AM

Every home buyer, condo buyer or coop buyer in brownstone Brooklyn should punish Corcoran by using a competing broker. Eventually they will get the message.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:41 AM

Correction: make that 3x what he paid for it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:41 AM

11:36:

So this isn't Carroll Gardens????

Starbucks
164 Smith St, Bklyn
Brooklyn, NY 11231
718-422-0178

And you've got a McD's on the way to Smith very soon.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:42 AM

Not a Broker here i must say the area is top of the line Nabe and maybe some prices may be asking a little much the area does command a high price in terms of Location. The school is just wonderful PS58 amd the people make the nabe wonderful.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:43 AM

The owner of 329 owns and lives in one of the nicest houses on that block. He bought 329 for his daughter to live in. He probably got around DOB because he knew what he was doing because he is in the real estate business - not a broker or agent. I consider him an old timer but not an elderly old timer.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:47 AM

"Brooklyn used to pride itself on its diversity and liberal values. Remember those days?"

Are you kidding? The old school Brooklynites I've met are among the most conservative and close-minded people I have ever met.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:48 AM

Putnam - I thought sites like Streeteasy basically served the same function as an MLS.

Decent point otherwise. I agree that individual brokers can't really fix the market, though I've always kind of suspected that the larger brokers (Corcoran, Elliman, BHS, Halstead) have de facto colluded - look on Streeteasy and their listings invariably seem more aggressively priced than comps at the smaller local Brooklyn brokers so you wonder if they don't all suggest prices to sellers based on what the other big brokers are listing. It's kind of a self reinforcing phenomenon though - higher priced listings draw more sellers.

However, here Corcoran has basically left even the other large brokers in the dust. Gotta wonder why when it makes them look so bad....

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:48 AM

Judging from your misspellings, poor grammar and run on sentence, 11:43, you might want to take a stab at PS. 58 yourself for a couple years for an English 101 brush-up course.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:48 AM

11:43- That's Boerum Hill.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:49 AM

11:42 am:

I admit I don't immediately know where 164 Smith St. is, but I'd guess it is the Starbucks at Bergen St. and Smith. And no, that's really not Carroll Gardens, in fact, it's a subway stop away.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:49 AM

People should not use Corcoran because too many of their listings stink, not because their CG houses are priced too high. Many of the Corcoran brokers never invest in a professional photographer, for all the money they are making off the commission, and some don't even pay for a floorplan. I've also encountered a lot of newbie amateurs at Corcoran open houses. And once had a Corcoran broker simply not show up for an open house. Didn't leave a note, nothing. It seems they were letting just about anybody join their firm for a while there. The other big realty firms use professional photographers and pay for a floorplan. It's what the broker offers you, that should be the reason you choose them.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:49 AM

My "old school brooklynite" neighbor who's lived in the hood for 48 years....the "n" word is pretty much the only word she utters.

SOOO liberal and diverse.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:50 AM

If you even try to compare Carroll Gardens to Ft. Greene you r nuts. There is no way buddy. Carroll Gardens has a better class of people the old Italian ways are long gone. The crimes commited in ft greene are very high. The are no ammenities in Ft. Greene, You can shop for anything you need and get it in Carroll Gardens. No way buddy cant compare.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:51 AM

I wasn't talking about Bay Ridge or Carroll Gardens, 11:48.

The brownstone owners the hip brownstone neighborhoods who bought their houses in the 60's, 70's and 80's and were the pioneers, the very people who made Brooklyn what it is today, the only reason you all even want to be here, those are the values that aren't reflected as much in newer residents.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:52 AM

Actually, 164 Smith Street is Carroll Gardens.

But people in your neck of the woods like to say it's in the hood if you like it and not, if you don't.

SO typical of CG.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:52 AM

Yeah, because BAM sucks as an amenity. So do all the multitude of subway options at the Atlantic/Pacific stop.

Right.

I'd LOVE to only have one F stop in my entire neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:53 AM

As a Ft Greene renter with no kids, is it really all about the schools? Because that's the only rational argument I can fathom in favor of CG over any other neighborhood.

Compared to Prospece Heights, Ft Green or Clinton Hill, the houses in CG are smaller, uglier (my opinion), WAY more expensive and isolated from public transportation.

Any argument in favor of better restaurants, shopping or culture is negligible these days.

I'd take bigger nicer home in Bed-Stuy for $700k anyday and ship the kids off to Exeter with the money I saved. But I don't have kids so maybe I'm missing something.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:54 AM

>> Actually, 164 Smith Street is Carroll Gardens.

So what's the southern boundary for Cobble Hill / Boerum Hill? Pacific Street maybe?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:54 AM

Also, 11:42am, that's my point -- you have no idea where Carroll Gardens is, or the reasons people may or may not want to live there, so why even post? Really, I never post about Fort Greene (except to say how beautiful the housing stock is there), or Park Slope's 5th Avenue, because, despite visiting those places on occasion, I really don't know them that well. You don't know Carroll Gardens that well, so you have little to add to this debate.

There are certainly negatives to living in Carroll Gardens (many houses with details stripped, too many mom and pop stores leaving, F train is the only access, etc.) But I'd rather hear an opinion from someone who has facts at hand rather than a vague notion of the neighborhood with no real knowledge.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:54 AM

Rentals are cheap in Carroll Gardens.

Cheaper than Park Slope or Ft. Greene.

That says a lot.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:55 AM

For ANYONE whow would say that this part of Brooklyn is "liberal", you must have just arrived.

This is Bush country, people. Just this morning over breakfast at Joe's I heard a bunch of old timers bemoaning that "Jewberg" mayor and how he is responsible for all the woes in the neighborhood. As well there was some charming talk of how some "niggers" are OK, like the ones who are cops and firemen, etc. As I was leaving there was a community discussion on how impressive Bush was during the state of the union.

Yeah, not as liberal as you or Heath Ledger would like to think.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:56 AM

11:54 am -- guess what, it IS the schools! Some of us parents don't want to ship the kids off to private school. Even more important, we don't want to live in a neighborhood full of parents who prefer to do that than to make ourselves a part of the neighborhood.

Do you have any idea why Park Slope, especially PS 321, became so expensive? If Fort Greene is so great, the schools should follow, because it means that families are vested in the neighborhood. When that really happens, Fort Greene and Clinton Hill will be far more expensive places to live.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:59 AM

Nice way to sell CG, 11:51. I would never raise my children around racists. Not if I wanted them to function properly as adults in a more sophisticated world.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:59 AM

Rentals are cheaper in CG than Fort Greene? Are you serious?

We have a 3.5 bedroom/2 bathroom for under $3000 on Lafayette and South Portland. My friends in the CG pay $1700 for a one bedroom with a galley kitchen.

The C/G/B/Q/2/3/4/5 trains are between 10 feet and 3 blocks from my door. CG has only the F.

CG isn't a bad 'hood, but it's definitely not worth the price of admission in my opinion.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:00 PM

Hey, Brooklyn Tech isn't that bad!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:02 PM

11:54...I do know a lot about Carroll Gardens, you are just one of those people who think you are always right.

I asked my Starbucks as a question because clearly YOU don't know where the border of your own neighborhood lie.

I'm in Garroll Gardens at least a few times a week.

I find the people conservative, boring and racist. And they obviously think very highly of their overpriced, ugly houses and mediocre schools.

Park Slope might have it's negatives (I actually don't think too many) but the one thing it is, is LIBERAL.

The most liberal of all the brownstone neighborhoods, for sure.

My god, my co-op is practically a hippie commune.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:04 PM

I don't know what the cross street is for 164 Smith, but since there's no Starbucks in Carroll Gardens from DeGraw on, you don't know what you are talking about.

11:51 poster (who I think may also be 11:43) is someone who always posts about how great CG is but always with very bad grammar and some kind of racist implication. Please stop posting, you make the rest of us Carroll Gardens residents look bad.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:05 PM

CG doesn't have just the F - it also has the G even if that isn't saying much.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:05 PM

You mean people spend all their extra money for a good public school for 5 years, 11:59. 5 years. What about college? What about paying for a private high school if the kids don't get into one of the better public high schools? It's a bit short-sighted.

Besides there's more to forming a well rounded human being and more to success as an adult, than just academics. What about having enough extra money to travel to Europe? Or get out of the city in the Summer? It's not an option for those spending every extra dime they might have to live in CG or in the PS 321 zone.

There is a very very strong argument against choosing to blow the bank on a K-5 public school district. But the realtors won't allow that discussion to really take root in Brooklyn, because they are making huge amounts of money off your obsession with being in a good K-5 school district. You all played right into it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:06 PM

12:04 if you know so much, what is the cross st. of that Starbucks?

Sure, you can pretend Bergen Street is within the border of Carroll Gardens, just like you can pretend Bed Stuy is within the border of Fort Greene. What's the point?

If you don't like Carroll Gardens because it is less liberal than Park Slope, that's fine -- you are very likely correct. But why try to make your argument with inaccurate information like the Starbucks one.

OK, I don't like Park Slope because it's too close to the Gowanus Canal and the poisons seep into the water. I can make up lots of reasons. But I'd rather use facts that are true.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:10 PM

But 12:05, the attitude 11:51 shows, is exactly what people are pointing out about the old Italian neighborhoods. This is what not just the older residents are like, but their offspring too. You hear those same attitudes in the kids and teenagers, the 3rd generation. They don't frequent the hipster coffeeshops, you don't see them every day, but they are most definitely there. And their kids are in the schools. Bringing their families' perspectives to share with the other kids.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:11 PM

People who think Park Slope is ONLY expensive because of PS. 321 need to go back to elementary school themselves, because it is MORONIC!

Last time I checked, it was high school and college that made ANY difference in a person's life.

NO ONE GIVES TWO SHITS ABOUT ELEMENTARY OR MIDDLE SCHOOLS.

You are just so ignorant that you can't admit that Park Slope is a nice neighborhood.

In a city of 8.25 million people, living next to the most beautiful park in the city is worth the price of admission in its own right.

Then there's the fact that it's the largest intact enclave of late 19th century architecture in the country. Oh and the restaurants and shops are pretty ok. The neighborhood recycles more than any in the entire city. The sense of community is astounding, even if a tad overwhelming at times. The freakin school is like one of 10 amazing things about the neighborhood but to suggest that it's the only reason the neighborhood is expensive, means you are one bitter soul.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:11 PM

Too hilarious. And 12:10 is accusing others of "pretending" about borders?

So desperate.

Park Slope is nowhere near the Gowanus Canal. From these posts we see Carroll Gardens residents are mentally deficient. And tell us how good their schools are again?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:14 PM

Okay rabidly defensive Park Sloper at 12:11, when did I say all of Park Slope was not worth living in?

How about never?

I said PS 321 and CG was more expensive than other school districts and I questioned whether in the long view, it was worth it for a young family to blow the bank and overextend themselves to buy a place just because of 5 years of school.

Now take your pill, please.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:15 PM

Never mind me at 12:14, I see now I missed the sarcasm in 12:10's post. SOrry!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:17 PM

I was walking by Po the other night (or is that not in Carroll Gardens either now, 12:10?) and these two guys were walking behind two hispanic men screaming out and taunting them with racial slurs.

They laughed as they taunted them saying to them "get the hell out of our neighborhood you ______"

Not the place for me.

And not a place I'd spend over 3 million bucks, either.

For that kinda money, I'd like a little more tolerance.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:18 PM

Why so surprised? All the fights against new developments and the push for downzoning are just a ruse to maintain scarcity and pump up financial gains at the expense of the greater good.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:19 PM

Where is Carroll Gardens?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:21 PM

In our neighborhood, our black neighbors are doctors, lawyers, architects. I have a hard time seeing the jerks 12:18 describes as being in the same professions. Or even close to being as educated.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:22 PM

These should be going for at least 8 to 10 million dollars each. This is Brooklyn the New Manhattan, all u poor people get the hell out

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:22 PM

1) That starbucks is NOT in CG - it's on the corner of Wykoff which is officially in Boerum Hill. 2) Angry Wades is the cheesiest lamest bar in the whole BOCOCA area and anyone who goes there is clearly ignorant of better options in the area OR looking for a good ole cheese-bag kind of evening - but you certainly can't judge the neighb by it since many of the people there are actually from places like Bay Ridge and Staten Island. THIRD - rents in CG ( at least northern CG) are higher than those in PS. I don't know about FG. Finally, anyone who has lived in CG for any amount of time knows that public trans is absolutely FINE - it is a very small neighborhood and every part of it is pretty close to the F. As someone who has been commuting on the F for 8 years - I remain a huge fan - it takes you everywhere you want to go in Manhattan without ever having to leave the train. Every once in a while there are problems, but that is true with every line in NYC - no subways are immune to flooding and occasional delays. It's like dismissing the whole upper east side because it is only served by the green line or lower east side because it only has the orange. So stupid.

Finally, everyone has a passion for the neighborhood in which they live and dislikes the places they have chosen NOT to live -hmmm, sounds reaonsable. so ridiculous to get in these neighborhod fights.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:25 PM

12:06 pm -- my point about schools is more complex than you state

First, why do you think public schools improve? It's because middle class families move in to the neighborhood when it is affordable and are committed to becoming part of the neighborhood. Part of that is a commitment to the public school, to make it better for their kids and for everyone who is already in the neighborhood. They aren't thinking, I'm not going to do this because after 5th grade it doesn't benefit me -- they do it because it makes them a part of the neighborhood. That is exactly what happened in 321 and 58. Once the schools got better, real estate prices rose, and in fact, the kinds of people who made the school better in the first place could no longer afford to live there.

However, the important thing is that there are still a high percentage of families there who bought early enough so that they do still use the local school.

Contrast this with the neighborhoods you praise -- Fort Greene and Bed Stuy. Those places jumped in price so quickly that the tipping class of middle class buyers who were commited to improving the schools never got there before the houses got way out of range.

You are absolutely correct, anyone who can afford to buy in Fort Greene today can make the economic rationale to send the kids to private school. But that's a shame for the neighborhood -- sending the kids to the local public school connects you to the neighborhood in a way that sending them to private school doesn't. In Carroll Gardens, people move in thinking they will use the public school. And many do. That's what makes it such a great neighborhood to live in.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:26 PM

12:18

"I was walking by Po the other night (or is that not in Carroll Gardens either now, 12:10?) and these two guys were walking behind two hispanic men screaming out and taunting them with racial slurs.
They laughed as they taunted them saying to them "get the hell out of our neighborhood you ______"

Its funny, I left CG and now live in Clinton Hill. Now its the Hisapnic men who say the same about me, taunting me with gentrifier slurs.

Which is better? Hard to say.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:26 PM

Can we please keep our rage focused on Corcoran? I still can't figure out the game here. The houses sit and sit, the owners can't be happy, the brokers looks stupid, who wins? You're going to pay a million more for CG over Tompkins Place? That is utter insanity.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:30 PM

>> And no, the Smith Street Starbucks is not in Carroll Gardens, although there is also one on Court which is a bit closer.

It's a block farther away.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:30 PM

I love the neighborhood whether Starbucks is one inch or out, as long as there are rice balls, the ability to leave doors unlocked in the daytime, and an 11 minute subway ride to Soho. But I see equal plusses in each these other neighborhoods, better values...and a few worse.

hmm,As for the politics and schools of the neighborhood:
25 years in Brooklyn and I have heard a racist pro-Bush argument in every neighborhood: Passing the Park Slop Co-op, outside Lesbian bars, and next to bi-racial couples. Perhaps the most important education for kids is their hearing this real world thinking and parents discussing. Anyone with any research in edju-macation knows that without a good early childhood education all of the rest becomes nearly impossible. That said most of these neighborhoods have some good schools with some very good teachers. Finding and getting kids into the classes of those teachers make more sense than spending 3 Million or 0.5 million.

As for those new CG prices, the only people who are going to pay any of the numbers you are seeing are foreigners (foreign from US or NYC) who buy into the collusion, or Hollywood stars who can buy with one film's salary and need not worry about the 30-40 years rent needed to recoup. Otherwise the building will sell for 50% of the price. The real price is what someone pays. I suspect the agents get the property by saying these figures are possible and then becoming real after a few weeks. You don't see any actual sales for these per sq. ft charges. Tax values just went out and they went down from last year!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:32 PM

Is anyone else sick to death of talking about Carroll Gardens?

I know I am.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:35 PM

People--it's not about whether Carroll Gardens is a good neighborhood or not. CG is great--sure! But a 16' wide, 3-story house with one of the most mediocre and tacky renovations I've seen is NOT WORTH ANYWHERE NEAR ITS INSANE asking price of $3.6 million. It's so absurd that it makes me think it is a fake listing, a hoax or some sort of scam.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:38 PM

i think cg is a hoax.

the neighborhood doesn't even really exist.

apparently there are no starbucks in the hood, in which case, perhaps the entire area is just a figment of our own imaginations.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:40 PM

12:35

Obviously you are not sick of discussing Carroll Gardens. You just brought it up.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:41 PM

Parents have the opportunity to play a big role in early childhood education too, 12:32. You don't just toss the ball to the public school system. Talk about a formula for failure. As for writing off all children for life, whose families aren't wealthy enough to buy or rent a place in these so-called perfect school districts, that's disgusting. I know so many people who came from tough backgrounds and tough schools and really made something of themselves. Very intelligent people. It's really unfortunate you've never even met anyone like that.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:42 PM

I sold my apartment through Corcoran and they got me a great price, much higher than another broker quoted.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:44 PM

After looking at all the Brownstone neighborhoods...we have found Park Slope feels most urban and comfortable to us. Anyone have any leads on a brownstone there in the 3 million-ish area?

- Buyer from Manhattan

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:46 PM

If I knew how racist, snobby, mean and elitist Brooklyn was looking at this website, we might as well have bought a house in Connecticut instead. We thought we were choosing a liberal community that shared our values. If Brooklyn becomes the suburbs, with suburban values, then there's no reason whatsoever for people to choose Brooklyn over the suburbs, is there? Except a tad shorter commute. Think about it. Pretty dumb idea to not strive to keep Brooklyn what's appealing about Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:49 PM

triple digits, here we come

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:52 PM

"If I knew how racist, snobby, mean and elitist Brooklyn was looking at this website, we might as well have bought a house in Connecticut instead."

If I knew that people made up their minds about what a borough of 2.4 million people was like based on an anonymous blog about real estate, I probably would have moved to Connecticut too.

To escape idiots like YOU!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:52 PM

It's about that time--

fried mozzarella stick anyone?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:56 PM

Hmm, well aside from your emotionally hysterical reaction, 12:52, did you understand the point I was making about the change of Brooklyn and possible ramifications to the housing market here? Just wondering. Because you know, I was making a point about something, or I was trying to. For anyone who gets it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:56 PM

No, I don't see your point, 12:56.

Because I believe most people move to the suburbs to get a bigger house for cheaper.

I don't believe many actually factor in what the people out there are really like.

If they did, I wouldn't know so many people who moved to the burbs and moved back to the city within 3 years.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:00 PM

I guess corcoran & these crazy sellers can ask for whatever prices they want - but isn't the question of the day, WHY are they posting these prices that are so out of line & WHAT is the strategy? It simply does not make sense & I really want to befriend a corcoran broker to get into their heads.

Someone above mentioned the Dean Street listing...that house looks truly beautiful, though also overpriced, but what would make that house less than that hideous President St listing?

Has anyone seen the Dean Street place up close? What are the thoughts on Boerum Hill these days & their prices? Are prices falling there? Are people afraid that a recession will increase the crime over there because it is so close to the projects?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:01 PM

wow--self-righteous and judgmental much 1PM?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:01 PM

how about a cannoli then?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:03 PM

12:42,
this is 12:32 and either I wrote my post rather poorly or you just didn't get it. My comment was meant to imply that any school (in any neighborhood) can be good and I was just pointing out that the poster who stated only high school and college mattered was crazy. I also specifically meant we should talk and meet the teachers (the complete opposite of throwing "the ball" into the school's hands). Yes, people succeed with and/or despite their upbringing. But if people want to spend on their children's education, the main thing they need to spend is time speaking with them and their schools.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:03 PM

This thread has done serious damage to the reputation of Corcoran, in my opinion.

Thus giving a sour note to Carroll Gardens as well.

Anyone who lives in the neighborhood should voice their concerns with Corcoran, because soon, this is going to be picked up by Curbed, then Gawker, and CG will now be the new whipping boy in Brooklyn. It looks like it's time to pass the torch from PS to CG.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:04 PM

No one cares about schools. They care about proximity to Starbucks, without actually having one in their neighborhood. They care about how many of Mario Batali's restaurants are moving into the neighborhood and which neighborhood has the youngest people standing in line for juno at the local movie theater.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:07 PM

Hope so, 1:04.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:07 PM

a cannoli would be lovely, thanks.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:12 PM

Am I out of the loop? I live in CG and where is there a McDonalds? I don't even know where it would go on Smith Street. Would people eat there?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:25 PM

Ok well the old school is gone or leaving. The racisim is in every nabe you fools.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:30 PM

" {people are} all aflutter over the possibility of a MickeyD's taking the place of the Brooklyn Camo. Someone called it a "tipping point" after it was pointed out that there was a Starbucks, a Dunkin' Donuts AND a Domino' Pizza directly across the street, not to mention the Brooklyn Industries and American Apparel, Lucky Brand Jeans, Rite Aid, CVS, Wamu...."

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:34 PM

The old school all had kids, 1:30.

Don't be so naive to think that racism and conservatism are only a generational thing.

I see plenty of kids hating on people who are different than they are.

It's engrained in their upbringing.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:35 PM

OK, for the record, I'm an F train hater, but that's as a PARK SLOPER - where you have the option of other trains that get you to Manhattan much faster. For a Carroll Gardens resident, the F train is fine and fast. It just slows way down when it goes above ground and seems to take forever to get to the Slope after that. Just my take...

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:38 PM

1:04 - your post is making me giggle uncontrollably.

I think I have some mozzerella sticks if they're still available.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:38 PM

There is some Carroll Gardens on 5th Ave--La Villa. Perfect example of a restaurant that I'd expect to be in CG.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:41 PM

I would never buy in CG at these prices. I rather buy a 800K house in Northwestern Bedford Stuyvesant or Stuyvesant Heights. The homes in that area so beautiful and still intact because because many of the people that lived there in the past could not afford to update there homes. It really seems like PS 1970 I guess beacause it was all designed with the same architects.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:42 PM

This 'price fixing' is nothing more than what this whole real estate, house of cards and pyramid scheme has been all about. Nothing new. It took fraud and deception to push prices where they are today. It will take mass revelation and acceptance to bring them back down to where they should be, God knows where.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:47 PM

1. Is it often about the schools. And it can be worth paying this premium bcs a) you're not paying 25-30k after-tax dollars on tuition for 6 years (k-6) and the 15k each year for 2 years of preschool to get into the 25k privates. and b) you get the same premium back when you sell.

2. PS58 is starting to turn around, but it's not in same league as 321, 29 or even PS8.

3. These prices are NUTS.

4. But it's not price fixing.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:02 PM

Isn't it odd that as soon as The What's dire predictions came true he disappeared?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:04 PM

"paying 25-30k after-tax dollars on tuition for 6 years"

Anyone who does this is an idiot, in my opinion.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:07 PM

Maybe the Rapture happened, and of all the posters on this board, only the What was taken up to heaven.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:09 PM

"Isn't it odd that as soon as The What's dire predictions came true he disappeared?"

When was that?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:15 PM

I think corcoran kidnapped The What and is torturing him by subjecting him to articles published by REBNY.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:16 PM

The What's predictions were for the end of the world, as we know it.

Last I checked, that hasn't happened.

Have any of you ACTUALLY felt any of the ramifications of the so called economic meltdown?? Or are you just playing into the hands of the media, per usual?

I sure haven't felt anything yet. Just got a 10% raise last week and another week of vacation.

And someone left a note on my door yesterday asking to buy my house.

Again.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:16 PM

People who talk up the What (even as a joke) and make him sound like he was SO wise are the same people who buy US weekly, fawning over all the idiot celebrities who are in and out of rehab every two minutes.

It's SO American, and SO disgusting.

How about praising someone on here who actually makes some valid comments...

Like Rehab, or Montrose Morris, or Bob Marvin.

No, you'd rather talk incessantly about some ignoramus who was unable to form a sentence without a 4 letter word in it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:19 PM

Britney Spears will be worthless once AY is built.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:40 PM

There's no income tax due on money paid towards tuition, remember. Please calculate that as well, if you're going to be fair about this.

6 years at $20,000 per year is still cheaper than the $500,000 to $1 million more it costs to purchase a house inside PS 321. Or the $300,000 to $500,000 more to buy a coop or condo inside PS 321. But sure, keep trying to convince yourself your risky jumbo mortgage was worth it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:41 PM

2:41...

Actually most of the homes I see for sale now listed inside the PS. 321 boundaries are asking LESS than homes selling in Carroll Gardens right now.

So how does that prove your point, exactly??

Where is the 1 million premium you so fervently have stated? I'd like examples.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:44 PM

I would like to note that the perfectly renovated Berkeley Place home that sold for 3.4 million this past summer (probably one of the most expensive homes sold in Park Slope this past year) does NOT even lie in the PS. 321 district.

So 2:41....I think you are incorrect.

I think you just need to justify to yourself why you are spending 100K for little timmy to go to elementary school.

Hate to break it to you...but never saw a resume with an elementary school listed on it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 2:47 PM

It's not cheaper, 2:41. 500k premium is about 36k a year (of which it's almost ALL deductible) and packer/st anns are NOT 20k, but a little over 25k for first 6 years. And I'm not sure what you mean about "income tax on ... tuition". No, of course not. But it IS after-tax dollars.

The other thing is there's no guarantee you can get Timmy in. Packer had over 500 applicants for a 2008 kindergarten class - and half the seats have already been promised to siblings. So, what, 18-25 seats left?

And this is for one child. If you have two or more, you better believe it pays to spend the extra money to be in a good zone.

Also, like location, the school premium you redeem when you sell and historically at a big premium.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:12 PM

I find it amusing that John Brownstoner who lives in the neighborhood that has benefited more than any other in Brooklyn from this real estate boom, thanks in large part to Minsky and the Corcoran machinery pushing prices up month after month, is so incensed by the prices of houses in Carroll Gardens.

I am not trying to argue that these prices are justified in anyway, but simply want to point out that when similar price increases occurred in Clinton Hill, John Brownstoner often chose not to comment due to "a conflict of interests," rather than incite the masses into a snark fest.

As pointed out in previous posts, the market will decide what these properties are worth.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:18 PM

1:42 these prices are a joke. As pretty much every poster has said, no one expects these houses to fetch anything close to this. And by that I mean they are 1 or 2 million dollars overpriced. No one knows why Corcoran decided to put on these price tags, but obviously, no one is going to buy them at this price.

By all means you should buy an $800K house in Bed Stuy because the same size house will cost you at least twice as much in Carroll Gardens and probably won't have the same intact details. And that kind of price differential is due to the good schools and other amenities (lack of a Starbucks notwithstanding).

But please, if you buy there, don't plan on private schools but take a little initiative and work to improve your local elementary school and send your kids there. There is no faster way to get to know your neighbors and feel connected to the community. That's what happened in schools like 321, 29, 58. It took alot of parents willing to do the hard work of making the schools better -- the newcomers paying nearly 2 million for their homes now are merely the beneficiaries of those parents.

But if Bed Stuy becomes a neighborhood where people like you send their kids to private schools, or to public schools in a different neighborhood, you are really doing a disservice to your neighborhood. The charm of Carroll Gardens is that it's like a small town where you walk down Court St. and know half the people because your kids go to school with their kids. It would be fantastic if Bed Stuy becomes like that too.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:24 PM

2:16 Heard that large financial/real estate company coming off a great year is not increasing salaries or bonuses in order to be able to save jobs in 08 with the cash. It has only started. All those 30 year-olds making $130k/year opening branch banks are going to be looking for new jobs real soon (and yes, there are a lot of them or others in similarly redundant positions).

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:30 PM

"Like Rehab, or Montrose Morris, or Bob Marvin."

Bob Marvin sucks.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:43 PM

Nice area that is all i can say about Carroll Gardens.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:52 PM

YES! Carroll Gardens is beautiful! But it is not $3.6 million beautiful (for a tiny and skinny house with a sub-par reno) or $3.495 million beautiful (for another short and small house).These prices are some sort of scam and they have absolutely no basis in reality.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 3:56 PM

Hmmm.... all this Corcoran action points to some ploy to make their other listings look like a steal. If you compare today's Adelphi HOTD to these overpriced lemons, if does look like a total deal. Even Boerum Hill looks like a deal relative to these duds.

On a side not, interesting to see that Corcoran has no houses for sale in Park Slope. Nada, zilch. Could it be that Slope owners have tired of them and are using other brokers?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:04 PM

Doubtful, 4:04.

It's that inventory in Park Slope is next to nothing.

Been saying that for a while now, but no one was paying attention.

That's why prices are still holding.

Had 40 people come through an open house on Sunday. 4 offers on the table by 7pm.

I know the market is tanking, but I'm wondering when it's going to hit Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:11 PM

What Slope house had 40 people on Sunday and 4 offers? I know that the house on 2nd Street priced over $3 million and in great shape is struggling. I've been to an open house there twice--very low turnout, and they keep having open houses, so doubt there are offers on that place already.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:17 PM

it was my own fsbo, 4:17.

a co-op, not a townhouse.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:18 PM

4:18--4:04 said "houses" not co-ops.

There are many houses on the market in Park Slope. And most are sitting because they are priced too high relative to the work required to fix them up.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:21 PM

Brownstoner asks "coincidence or conspiracy"? Definitely NOT a coincidence. Not at all.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:24 PM

sorry, 4:21.

my bad.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:27 PM

Dear Conspiracy Theorists...I wish you knew how the brokerage business works. Most individual agents price houses on their own using the best available comps. The usually do not speak, let alone 'conspire'. Don't forget the sellers approve these prices. Brokers don't want to waste their time showing overpriced listings, but sellers often insist on the ultimate price, even if it is not supported with comps.

I know that all of you that think brokers are conspiring to ruin CG will underprice your house when it's your time to sell.....to right these prior wrongs? Correct??

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:44 PM

"Most individual agents price houses on their own using the best available comps."

BUT that's the problem here. There are NO comps to support the prices for the worst offenders of the batch--the small and narrow houses at President and 3rd Place. None. So the brokers and owners obviously did NOT determine these prices based on comps. So HOW DID they arrive at these listing prices? I'd love to know. Hence, the conspiracy theories...

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:53 PM

Agents can always refuse a listing that they believe is overpriced.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:53 PM

Who wants to email this thread to the brokers for these 4 properties?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:55 PM

4:53 is right. There are NO comps to support these prices.
304 President is much larger than 329 and is four family and it is priced over a million dollars less. I saw quite a few people coming out of the 304 open house on Sunday.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:58 PM

No need to email the agents this thread - they are reading it.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 4:59 PM

"I saw quite a few people coming out of the 304 open house on Sunday."

Yea, a lot of us neighbors went for a good laugh!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:11 PM

My wife attended the PS58 open house a few weeks ago and it was a mad house everyone now wants to get there kid into that school. The principal is a very good leader.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:14 PM

4:44 Here. I said the sellers have the last word. A broker will take an overpriced listing and hope the seller will 'listen to the market', and drop the price when it does not attract offers. There is nothing to be gained by the agency or the agent to have a listing that does not sell. Agents work for the sellers!!!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:14 PM

RE: PS.58

*On March 22, 2006, the New York Times reported that the Department of Education was planning to fire Principal Joyce Plush-Saly after an investigation concluded that she improperly gave students advance access to state test questions. Plush-Saly was removed from the school in mid-January when the investigation began. Stefanie Greco, assistant principal at PS 132 in Brooklyn, served as interim acting principal. (March 2006)

*A parent writes, "So far I am not very pleased with the performance of this school. For one, this school is very dirty, and many of the children have no manners at all. I believe that this school would be great if it cleaned up its act more." (June 2004)

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:25 PM

Maybe a guy shows up at your door in Carroll Gardens one day and says - "put your property on the market - shoot for the moon with your aksing price. I guarantee it will sell for whatever you ask. Just leave it on the market for a while and don't cut the price." Let's pretend for the sake of our hypotehtical that this guy is someone you know. Someone you respect, or maybe even fear.

After a couple of weeks, someone you don't know buys your place for the asking price, even though no other bid even came close. They pay with a check drawn on an account off shore somewhere - no mortgage or paperwork aside from the real estate filing. That person sits on the place for a year or two, then sells, maybe even at a small loss - no gain to report. But guess what, their money is now clean and in the US legitimately. Everyone's happy.

I don't know anything. Just guessing here.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:28 PM

"There is nothing to be gained by the agency or the agent to have a listing that does not sell. Agents work for the sellers!!!"

But agents need to GET the listing first, and to get it they sometimes entice the seller with astronomical figures.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:30 PM

hmmmm, 5:28, hmmmm.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:32 PM

If that's the case, 5:28...Corcoran is GOIN DOWN!!!!!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:35 PM

Someone is watching too many spy movies.

if that's the case, park slope is full of money launderers.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:44 PM

http://www.hopstop.com/map?zip=11201&address=164+SMITH+ST&nearby=s

164 Smith is Wycoff and Smith which is Borum Hill.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:47 PM

That's IT, 5:28!! This is all the responsibility of scheming, fear-inducing real-estate savvy money launderers, who go door-to-door to "persuade" homeowners into selling their houses at wildy inflated rates! Of course!!Phew. That's a load off my mind!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:49 PM

"if that's the case, park slope is full of money launderers."

Nope, not really. I don't know of ONE Park Slope house that is 16' wide and 3 stories tall that was ever sold or even listed at $3.6. Not one.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:50 PM

One of the most perverse aspects of American consumerism is that there are many folks who don't want a bargain. If they're not paying top dollar, they believe they're not getting "quality". So take that kind of a RE buyer (probably Manhattan based) and combine that with their fear of black folks, and you've got a great formula for massive price inflation in a neighborhood where, frankly, people of color have never been welcomed. The best way to test this would be for a buppie couple (preferably one partner employed at Goldman Sachs) to go check out some of these listings and see what kind of response they get from the brokers. But, wait a minute, didn't Corcoran get into major trouble recently for playing the game this way?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:51 PM

I agree, 5:50.

These listing actually make Park Slope look like a BARGAIN!

There have been no such listings that I can think of in Park Slope that have been overpriced by a million or even two million dollars, like these four.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:52 PM

I have to say that this thread makes me love new york.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 5:59 PM

5.28... Very good. Are Jackie Chan, Jean-Claude Van Dam and Owen Wilson in this one? With Rosie O'Donnell as the Evil Ms. Corcoran.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:00 PM

Can you imagine comparing, for example, 270 Berkeley Place (20.5' wide x 100) which was a perfect high-end renovation with all the bells and whistles, and which JUST closed for $3.35 million one month ago, to this President Street house? I mean, seriously?? It's truly pathetic.

I believe these agents are acting in concert, and that they're going for a shock and awe strategy for Carroll Gardens. Truly ridiculous. Interestingly enough, the brokers on the Berkeley house are also responsible for the 2nd Place house above.

BTW, link to 270 Berkeley:
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?ListingID=1070981&Region=NYC

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:02 PM

"if that's the case, park slope is full of money launderers."

No sir. These listings make Park Slope look like a real STEAL, not a deal, but a STEAL. And Fort Greene is also a steal in comparison to these totally unrealistic asking prices.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:06 PM

The Papa Smurf houses at 329 President and 78 3rd Place are actually asking MORE than the 20.5' wide, 4-story Berkeley house in Park Slope that sold for 3.35 mm. I saw that one and it was pristine. That's why I think it has to be a hoax.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:09 PM

Park Slope has a McDonalds or do people not like to admit that?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:33 PM

5:25pm -- ha, you really got those foolish PS 58 parents who are stupid enough to send kids there, and all those begging to get in. After all, what should we believe, our own experiences, and our kids' experience, or a 2 and 4 year old post from insideschools? I really appreciate you posting it. Here I was thinking the school was exceptionally clean, but now I realize it's filthy and I have to wash my kids clothes immediately after they come home each day. I'll be applying to private school immediately, or definitely selling my house so I can move to the 'burbs.

I can't understand what your agenda is. Are you mad because you don't have a decent local school to send your kid? Otherwise, I don't know why you would post the only 2 negative comments from insideschools.org listing, and omit the dozen positive one, as well as last year's very positive review of the school by the insideschools.org reviewers. No public school is perfect, but why unnecessarily denigrate one of the better public schools in Brooklyn with false information.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:38 PM

Bed-Stuy

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 6:51 PM

I always go to the McD's on 9th street as well as 4th Avenue--no problem admitting anything.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:01 PM

So does everyone who buys a brownstone have kids? or going to have kids? Everything is so kid-centric.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:04 PM

I think that many of the sellers really don't want to sell so they set a too high price and say "if I don't get X, then I'm not selling" and they won't because they really don't want to leave Carroll Gardens - it's that simple.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:06 PM

I hope that whoever buys the President St. houses will add to the holiday decorating that begins for Halloween. Love the Christmas decorations and Hanukkah lights on that block.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:06 PM

5:25

As a proud parent of PS 58 I've gotta say quoting info from 2004 and 2006 is WAY off base, unfair and innacurate.

You obviosuly don't have kids otherwise you'd see the ridiculousness of back quoting so far.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:25 PM

I'm the listing broker of one of the overpriced CG houses on the market (I am not telling which one) I didn't price this house. I provided comparable sales and advised the sellers what I thought the asking price should be and the range I thought they could get for the house. They listened and set the price $500K higher. The other sellers probably thought "Well if that house is priced at $3.XXX mil, I can get $3,xxx mil + this much more”

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:58 PM

Crackron...cause that's what they're on.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:59 PM

I love the new reno they did to the 9th street McDonald's. First class all the way, just like Park Slope. Suck it Carroll Gardens wannabes!!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:09 PM

While I can appreciate that, 7:58, there is one small problem with your advice.

Not even one of these homes is 500k overpriced.

I would say each and every one of these houses is overpriced by a million dollars.

Almost exactly.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:10 PM

182 posts and no one has offered any snacks? This is a travesty! I'm sending out for sliders and strawberry shakes!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:10 PM

Even at 500K less, these houses are all way overpriced. The only one that I can see benefiting from a 500K discount is 2nd Place. The others would still be crazily overpriced even with that 500K knocked off the price.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:11 PM

The new McD's in Park Slope IS nice, 8:09. I just noticed that the other day as well.

I actually don't think I've ever seen such an upscale looking McDonalds.

Never thought I'd use that word and McD's in the same sentence before...

And for the record, that has been there LONG before the neighborhood was chic. Even now, that strip between 4th and 5th is just getting to the point of being tolerable.

Adding a McD's to Smith Street...in 2008...would say a lot for where that strip is heading...

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:13 PM

8:10--I offered snacks way earlier in the day. In keeping with the CG theme, I had some mozzarella sticks and cannoli. Sorry you missed them. And get me some of them sliders.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:14 PM

Maybe Johann Santana will snatch one of these up.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:14 PM

i've had a bunch of dlist celeb sightings in park slope lately. more than usual. guess the cheap prices are pulling them away from cg.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:16 PM

The updated McDonald's on 9th Street is shockingly nice looking. I still won't eat their, mind you, but it's as easy on the eyes as fast food joints get.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:20 PM

Look I hate McD's as much as the rest of you and never buy it but last I checked this is still the USA and if they want to pay 8,500 per month for a storefront on Smith Street well then, they're allowed.

When the Dunkin Donut's opened on Bergen & Smith they were open 24/7; I think that lasted about two months before they reduced their hours and even now the place seems empty 90% of the time. If they or McDonald's don't get the revenue they won't be around very long.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:33 PM

consider it done 8:14!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:35 PM

I'm off to Blondie's. I'll pick up a couple of trays of chicken wings and tenders for everyone.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:56 PM

If 7:58 is true about being the realtor and having to raise it $500k (and it seems believable), this seems to be the crux of the matter.
The realtor starts with a number which if I were the seller I'd want to be the highest at all imaginable to please the buyer and bring in the highest possible commission. This rate may be based on comparables where a celebrity buys from a relative or such and/or take in statistics from some neighborhood where prices have risen 15% and assume that will translate to CG. Being smart, the realtor recognizes that this may be much more than that 15% too high and the market may be dragging and a final sale 40% down isn't unrealistic based on the 2006 bubble pricing; thus something that might sell at $1.8M is initially suggested at $3M. But lo and behold the owner who spent $750k on renovations says "Great, add another $500k." Suddenly, there's a listing for $3.5M that nobody will ever buy (except Johann Santana) but 200 people will post complaining.

I am one of them.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:57 PM

Forget Johann - one President St. house to Jose and the other to Billy.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:07 PM

I'm whipping up some fresh guac and salsa. This baby is headed to 200!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:16 PM

are we there yet?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:18 PM

I'm thinking Vince Carter buys all four for himself and extended family--to be close (but not TOO close) to AY.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:18 PM

close. pass the melba toast.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:25 PM

200.

AY is dead in the water.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:25 PM

where is carroll gardens?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:26 PM

"where is carroll gardens?"

It's Park Slope adjacent.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:26 PM

"where is carroll gardens?"

It's Park Slope adjacent.

OOOOOHHHH ok.

Now I know where.

So near those nice, cheaper houses and cute shops...

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:31 PM

CG is Gowanus adjacent.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:44 PM

Gowanus is like Poland, with Park Slope and Carroll Gardens playing the roles of Russia and Germany.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:01 PM

I'm trying to figure out what countries Cobble Hill, Boerum Hill, Fort Greene, Prospect Heights and Clinton Hill are in your analogy. And Red Hook and Bed Stuy. And what it means that brokers (I presume) last year created an alliance of 3 into BoCoCa - will the alliance hold? (I hope not, as I absolutely hate the name ... all that comes out when you try to say it is caca, and those 'hoods deserve better than that.)

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:17 PM

Agreed. The name BoCoCA must be quashed.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:37 PM

I vote for HiHiGar.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:56 PM

CARROLL GARDENS IS TOTALLY OVERRATED. Old school Italiano Mafiaso f***ers running this joint. All Whiteys in this nabe. Like no other Brooklyn neighborhood. Completely whitebread. What's up with that?!

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 12:52 AM

I'm Not the listing broker of any of these overpriced CG houses, cause I'm not a broker. I can price these houses. I'll provide comparable prices and advise the seller what the asking price should be. And if they (seller) sets the house at a higher price, more outrageous than what I think, Why not, it's Carrol Gardens, we can ask any price because everything is overpriced. YIPPY, I have a set of keys to multi-million dollar houses. I'm the best!

7:59pm...you're doing a disservice to your clients and the real estate market. Shame on you. Shame on all brokers, with this kind of mentality.

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 1:12 AM

I think the prices are high but they will get close to there asking if not no problem turn them to condos. One way or the other the owners win. It seems Mr brownstoner has a problem with CG

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 1:18 AM

Sure! They'll get "close to asking" in their dreams... these listings are a PR stunt, nothing more.

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 1:26 AM

The reno on 329 President is hideous. It is cheap and tacky. I cannot believe the broker had the balls to write that description for the listing. This is perfect proof that brokers think people are idiots.

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 1:57 AM

Conspiracy? - If you would check a bit further you would see that Elliman has 2 listings also on 1st Place quite similar in price.

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 9:26 AM

Here are some comps from around the neighborhood

230 Degraw Street sold for $3.4 million in Aug. 2007

380 Degraw St. $2.88 million 4 story 3600 sq ft. 8/2007

241 Sackett sold for $2m and that was 13.5' wide. This is a street that the bus is on! Aug. 2007

In April 2007, someone paid $2,010,000 for the 4th and 5th floor duplex at 100 2nd place, no elevator.

378 Clinton Street, also sold the 4th and 5th floor duplex for $2.1 million

86A 3rd place sold for $1.8. It is 13x40 and makes 40 2nd place feels like a mansion in comparison.

249 Degraw Street, 2700 sq ft condo. $2.45 million

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 10:40 AM

those were all in the OLD market, 10:40.

it's a whole new world now.

ever read a newspaper, buddy?

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 11:13 AM

Okay, so if they are overpriced, they will not sell. We'll let the market decide. All this talk about price fixing and conspiracy is getting a little silly. It sounds to me like it is a few people trying to cash in.

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 11:29 AM

Actually 10:40... even if that is the current world,
Those "comps" certainly aren't comparable by price per sq. ft. with the exception of 1 in each list. These prices average 50% higher!

The sales you provided averaged $800/sq.ft.:
230 Degraw 3000 sq ft = $1.1k/sq. ft.
380 Degraw 3600 sq ft = $0.8k/sq. ft.
86A 3rd Place 2400 sq. ft = $0.75k/sq. ft.
241 Sackett 2968 sq ft = $0.65k/sq. ft.

By comparison these prices average $1.2k/sq ft.
44 1st Place 3600 sq. ft = $1.05k/sq. ft.
78 3rd Place 3100 sq. ft = $1.13k/sq. ft.
40 2nd Place 2300 sq. ft = $1.22k/sq. ft.
329 President +/-2675 St = $1.35k/sq. ft.

*I ignored the condos and duplexes as they do not relate.

Posted by: guest at January 30, 2008 12:06 PM

For comparisons on the lower end in Carroll Gardens, albeit not on the Place blocks, here's recent data from trulia:

277 PRESIDENT ST 2,992 sf $2,050,000 on 2008-02-07 = $685 sf

136 SUMMIT ST 3,200 sf $2,094,000 sold 2008-01-17 = $654 sf

Posted by: guest at March 17, 2008 5:46 PM