Condos of the Day: Price Cuts at Forte

I honestly can't believe they've waited this long to cut prices.

For an extremely mediocre building, I always thought the prices were way too steep.

For the amount this building advertises, it should have been sold out long ago if it were a quality product.

Great location, though.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 12:49 PM

Why stop now? Keep cuttin'.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:01 PM

the forte website & the NYT listing show different square footages for the listing - is $650K for 1007sf or 1059sf?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:02 PM

Maybe they just want to get them all sold, fast!!

I'd say most buildings should be cutting prices drastically right now if they were smart. Just get the deals DONE.

If NYC manages to keep inventory super low like it's been, we should be able to off-set most of the trouble in the housing market.

Slash those prices, and get all this crap sold.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:04 PM

What is it with all of these new monstrosities and the giant HVAC units on top?? Can't these fancy architects figure out a way to "hide" them via some of their famous "design?" Hideous.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:08 PM

Inventory is high, not super low. Take a look around you - development everywhere. Population changes are negligible. We're still only 8 or so million deep.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:09 PM

Now that they have cut prices I do believe the units will sell much faster....Its about time.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:10 PM

1:09...inventory in New York City is at historical LOWS right now.

Do some research.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:13 PM

There are 4 units per floor lettered A-D, the A and B lines are the only ones that seem to sell, more so the B line studio/one bedrooms with the unchanging brownstone view. The D and C units will lose their sun and view in about 2 years.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:14 PM

these should fly now. where else can you get a real 1,000sf 2 BR for this price? greenwood heights or something?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:14 PM

Atantic Yards may not even end up happening, 1:14.

And if you think it will happen in 2 years, you are a little behind the 8 ball.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:19 PM

1:19 - I don't think that 1:14 was talking about Atlantic Yards. There are other buildings being talked about and planned right now that may impact some of Forte's views.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:24 PM

What does atlantic yard have to do with where this building is, I am talking about the 2-3 additions to BAM that will be of equal or greater height to this. Directly across the street are 2 parking lots soon to begin construction as well as the property behind the storage place. Do your homework cueball =)

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:26 PM

1:24 and 1:26...

yes...it's called DOWNTOWN brooklyn for a reason

i think most non-nimby's will welcome the development of more highrises in the DOWNTOWN area of brooklyn.

that's what the DOWNTOWN is for.

i actually think most who buy in the forte will welcome the increased pedestrian traffic, thus more retail these new buildings will offer them in DOWNTOWN brooklyn and it will offset their more obscured views in the end.

not everyone is terrified of highrises. especially most people who buy in DOWNTOWN districts.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:36 PM

Potential buyers obviously aren't terrified by highrises, they just don't want to lose their view, which is really the only amenity a building like Forte offers.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:44 PM

Downtowner here. I love everything that's going on in DB. Keep em coming. Come high, come low.I live in a high rise and views dont mean no shit. I got my drapes shut all the time.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:55 PM

There may be relatively low housing inventory in the city in general, but look around Brooklyn and there's actually a glut of newly built and renovated condos. Some are listed with the larger agents, some for sale by owner. Almost all of what's offered seems overpriced, even the newly lowered Forte units, which, even at a more affordable price point, have pretty high common charges. My guess is these places are going to sit until the developers decide to get with reality and really cut prices or to rent their inventory. Note today's news new housing sales dropped 26% in the last year. Granted, that reflects sales across the country -- but we can't stay insulated from this sort of fall off or the financial markets' gyrations forever. Not to sound like THE WHAT, but it's just a matter of time.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:02 PM

Next we'll see the building going rental...because they can't sell those properties that won't have sun. (I for one wouldn't live in any building - high or low - where other buildings blocked all my sun...) Being able to see sky, and sunshine in my apartment, are one of the reasons I prefer Brooklyn to Manhattan. I guess living in the high-rise congested parts of Brookyn will be more like living in Manhattan.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:14 PM

...and this is why Ratner's people are shaking!!!! the bottom is falling and he didn't get to play... boohoo!!!

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:14 PM

Miami?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:15 PM

In that case, good for the groups that opposed Atlantic Yards. Maybe we'll get something lower there eventually that won't block off access between the 4 brownstone neighborhoods that border it. I mean, I don't love these high-rises, but they are far less disruptive than the massive AY would be...

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:17 PM

have the 3brs been discounted??????????

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:18 PM

The problem is that the entire area surrounding this building (fort green exempt) is like a warzone of construction and dilapidated buildings...now.

The building offers 421a tax abatement which has taxes at like $40 as opposed to $400. but the rush to get the tax break leaves it as the "cheese stands alone".

Within 3 years Citypoint and BAM will be built and booming. with or without AY, see how many people will be trying to get in @ these "undersold" condos.

I really don't understand why the new breed of residential buildings don't advertise what will be, more. Hasn't everyone by now seen the Sir Ian Mclellan voiced over CG video of Brooklyn?

If not check for yourself.

http://www.citypointnyc.com/

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:20 PM

"I for one wouldn't live in any building - high or low - where other buildings blocked all my sun...) "

So I take it you wouldn't live in Manhattan, then??

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:32 PM

Forte is just one of the first to market Downtown and is trying to sell as fast as possible before the other new developments are ready for owners to move in.

Given how ugly the building turned out (raw untreated concrete - it looks terrible when it rains), dropping prices is probably their only way to compete. The sponsor has to carry all those mortgages until the unit is sold - so this must be a hedge against the arriving competition.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:49 PM

"So I take it you wouldn't live in Manhattan, then??"

Speaking for myself, not if the sun was blocked, no, absolutely not. Maybe one of the low-rise neighborhoods. I chose brownstone Brooklyn for BECAUSE of the low-density and open sky.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:50 PM

i actually notice i get less sun in my brownstone then i ever did living in a high rise in manhattan.

i don't understand your logic, 2:50 but it doesn't matter.

i get the idea.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:00 PM

This drop isn't across the board.

See for yourself.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/230-ashland-place-brooklyn

I've noticed a trend on this site. Mr. B will throw out a small bit of truth (usually negative) that can be read as an overall fact. Bloggers then attck the boards with mostly opinions rather then facts. Misinformed readers misconstrue one thing for another and eventually just get completely off topic. All the while Mr. B sits and collects the $$$ from sponsers for how many hits the site gets. Smart, but misleading.

FORTE needs to sell the C and D lines before the BAM Jenga building is built. They've got a lil over a year. done.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:05 PM

Saw 8D and 8C yesterday. Like much of the new construction I've seen in Brooklyn, the quality seems scattershot at best... some attention is paid to kitchens and bathrooms, but there's obvious corner-cutting in other areas such as cheap, poorly-fitted closet doors and lousy windows. Also the units felt smaller than advertised and much space is wasted in the C line by a long corridor.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:10 PM

if you live on the north side of a building (any building, whether it's on the 3rd story of a brownstone or on the 25th floor of the forte) you are in shadow 100% of the time. new york is in the northern hemisphere. the sun shines from the south....

of course everyone wants abundant natural light and people will pay a premium for it.... but just because a unit doesn't get direct sunlight doesn't mean it will be impossible to sell.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:40 PM

Since I like to walk in the buff or wear as little clothing as possible after a shower or on a hot summer day, I tend to like my privacy and draw the curtains closed. That is why I am no fan of the all glass condo's or the windows that go from the floor to the ceiling.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:46 PM

That is still way over priced,
you might have to knock off another $100,000.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:47 PM

Lived in Manhattan for awhile - in the low-rise west village, where I also had sun. Still, moved back to brownstone Brooklyn, where I liked it better (less noise, less car and bus exhaust, more space for the money.)

Not all brownstones are dark. Depends on (1) whether you have bay windows (they do bring in a lot of light from those 45-degree angled side windows; (2) how wide your street is; (3) how tall whatever is across the street is; and (4) how high floor you are on.

They all have two exposures (and some have three.) I've always lived on the side of the street where my living room faced south, because I like light in my living area more than my bedroom(s). And I like living high up, where you get lots of sun from both the north and south windows, if it isn't blocked by tall buildings. Gardens are nice, but garden apartments are too dark for me.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 3:51 PM

i can't understand why anybody would think these are still over-priced. a 1,000 sf 2-br for $650,000 seems awfully reasonable. i'm not saying the bldg doesn't have it's drawbacks.... but i think that lower price reflects the drawbacks. it's hard to find a real 2br for $650k in a full service bldg.

just compare to one hanson. the 1 and 1.5 brs currently listed are 620k, 750k, 830k, 835k, 1 M. and the 2 brs go from 889k to 1.75M ...

of course the bldgs are different and hanson is a much higher-end bldg (but maybe in a less good, more crowded location.)

but even compared to something like the oro. which seems like a similar-type of bldg but in a worse location. 2br at the oro are 830k to 1 M.

650k seems pretty fair for a 2br at the forte.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 4:00 PM

Interesting note on the new home sales data released today:

"Regionally, the northeast is the least important part of the country for new home sales, but it is also the strongest. There were 65,000 new homes sold in that region last year, up 3 percent from 2006. But the other three regions were all down at least 26 percent, with the west (California, there you go) off the most at 32%."

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 4:01 PM

IT appears only few units are under contract with Forte according to EasyStreet. WHy is it not selling? How long as it been on the market?
Oro seems to be selling pretty well, at higher prices.
I did notice the maintenance fee on Forte is on high side.

Any thoughts?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 4:29 PM

I never really considered this building among my choices when I was searching couple months back. The 2bd/2ba units are too small. Granted this isn't the only building with these anemic dimensions and that's why those other buildings weren't in contention either.

The 2bd/2ba should be in the 1300 sf & up. The units layout just made for really unusual layouts for your furniture. It didn't work me.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 4:36 PM

Speaking of new condo developments, anyone know what's going on with 475 Sterling Place? Anyone looked at the 2 bdr/2 bth units there?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 4:50 PM

In the long run, I think this building will increase in value. Right now, though, the kinds of people who are willing to put up with cramped, cookie-cutter condos are still clinging to the isle of Manahatta. It's people who have floated in from other parts of the country, often on their parents' financial aid, and they are only dipping a toe into brooklyn every couple of months for some "edgy" event or a slice of Grimaldi's pizza.

They'll come, it'll just take some time and cosmetic surgery on the immediate area. (Manicured sidewalks with benches and a couple of very ostentatious STARBUCKS signs.) It's never gonna have that no-brainer feel of dumbo, as we didn't have Walentas here to impose his OCD vision on every crack of every brick in every wall. But BAM has proven to be a very smart manipulator (de facto city planner, in lieu of any actual city planning to be seen from the, eh, city) of real estate, and I wouldn't worry.

As far as the Oro is concerned, I think they have more ammenities. Plus: all those hot supermodel-looking chicks in their ads they promise will be living on your floor, swimming in your lane, etc.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 4:59 PM

"Speaking of new condo developments, anyone know what's going on with 475 Sterling Place? Anyone looked at the 2 bdr/2 bth units there?"

Total crap. I would never recommend these even to my enemy. The workmansip is crappy and the finishes cheap.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 5:03 PM

Total crap. I would never recommend these even to my enemy. The workmansip is crappy and the finishes cheap.

and that's different from forte or oro, how exactly?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 5:11 PM

What do you expect for $650 a sq foot, exactly?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 5:16 PM

Oro looks to at least be built from more than sticks and clay, unlike this thing...

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 5:22 PM

"What do you expect for $650 a sq foot, exactly?'

Just what I was thinking when I wrote earlier about developers needing to cut prices to be more realistic, reflecting both what they're offering and that the market's just not so so so hot anymore.

Buyers can actually be a little picky, especially in looking at new construction. $650 a sq foot is still a lot of money, even in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 5:26 PM

5:03...I agree! Those units were like nothing I have ever seen.
I did see 95 Lexington this weekend (new building by cororan) very nice size and finished were some of the best i have saw.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 5:58 PM

1:14...there are 5 apartments in The Kent (970 Kent ave, 11205) right now all of them at 1000sqft or more for 545K max, all of them 2ba and at least one is a 2br. The one beds and studios could easily have walls put up.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 6:09 PM

6:09 - isn't that Bed Stuy?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 6:37 PM

It's like I am legend over there...don't go out @ night

rule number one to property is location location location...the finishes all get replaced when you sell anyway. If you can afford to splurge on "luxury" then you would be more then excited to have a personalized space with custom everything.

The type of people who buy and sweat over mortgage payments obviously made a mistake and are a layoff away from foreclosing...ie what happened in California this past year.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 7:18 PM

This is a off topic...But, considering we're talking about this neck of Brooklyn, I want to ask your collective opinion on brownstone Fort Greene.

Can someone estimate what we should expect to offer for a 4-floor "regular" townhouse in prime Fort Greene that needs a real reno? Basically, by “prime” I mean “prime commuting walking distance and decent shopping”--anything south of DeKalb and west of, say, Clermont. By "real reno" I mean, new everything like windows, electric, heat/hot water systems, bathrooms and kitchens but the bones are decent with some details still intact…maybe new interior woodwork around windows and doors.

We have looked at a couple of places and don't want (can’t afford) the really big houses like on South Portland and the park. And we don’t like the smaller ones on Carlton between Greene and Layette…saw one and its “garden” floor was really only a cellar with windows. We’re more in the market for an in-between sized brick rowhouse like on Lafayette or something.

The backyards in most of FG are not that deep like they are in Prospect Heights but really, it is more the convenience to all the trains in FG and the feel of the neighborhood we like. Truth is, we live here now and don't want to leave.

Are all prices in prime FG near the trains well north of 1.6 even for places that, frankly, need a real reno?

Also, what’s the opinion out there (aside from “After AY…”). Is it worth dropping 1.75 to 2m on a basic double-duplex or owner-duplex-plus-two-rentals in prime FG? Is the nabe going to remain “golden” or at least stable through this downturn?

Feedback please. Thanks!

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 7:44 PM

Some of the logic regarding this post is pretty specious...Why and how would anyone develop those parking lots across from the forte into residences when there appears to be plenty of residential sales and inventory lying empty? Ultimately people will make their own renting or buying decisions. Some people, probably like forte owners, appreciate the many and varied nearby transportation options, including being one stop away from Kennedy airport's monorail. Others don't mind a fifteen minute walk to the G train or a dark ground floor apartment. Others will choose to use mortgage brokers and get adjustable rate mortgages to buy cookie-cutter boxy apartments. Bottom line - ignore haters and enjoy your own life.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 7:49 PM

So we're enjoying ahredi...

Enjoy!

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 8:11 PM

you have to consider the sky high commom charge that comes with the condo. It's ridiculous.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 8:38 PM

these common charges are quite reasonable, 8:38.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 8:40 PM

Buy a brownstone and you won't have common charges...just every other charge you can imagine! :-)

Friends of ours in a building with a low common charge just got hit with a $30K assessment on their 1-bedroom apartment so the building (which has about 24 apartments) can redo the roof. Doing the math, the cost of the roof seems excessive but still...you never know with common charges and assessments. Ugh.

So, anyone care to answer the Fort Greene shopper? How much should they spend? I'm curious too!

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 8:44 PM

Doesn't this building have only one elevator? If so, that's a big reason as to why apartments are not selling.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 8:45 PM

nope, it has multiple elevators, 8:45.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 8:46 PM

It has 2 fast elevators that go from the basement gym to the rediculously scenic roofdeck and a Very attentive 24hr concierge.
That plus location makes it a very attractive buy.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:28 PM

don't forget the kegs on every floor...each one comes with it's own scantily clad "lady"!!!!

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:38 PM

8:40, over 900/month pure CC (not incl. eventual taxes) on a 650k unit is NOT reasonable. I'd expect 500, so 900+ is insane. What, are they going to give me a handj*b every night?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:45 PM

With these common charges, these units are still 50k overpriced, in my opinion. Drop the CC or drop the price.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:46 PM

The building has a 421-a abatement (15 years). The taxes will be about $45 monthly for the apartments for ten years and then incrementally go up to prevailing tax rates in years 11 through 15. They are not giving out 421-a abatements anymore and you don't get them with anything other than new construction. The math favors these forte buyers - Can you imagine what some others will pay in taxes through 2023? Also there are no $650k units there with CCs as high as $900+. Hyperbolic statements are no substitute for facts.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:54 PM

The building has a 421-a abatement (15 years). The taxes will be about $45 monthly for the apartments for ten years and then incrementally go up to prevailing tax rates in years 11 through 15. They are not giving out 421-a abatements anymore and you don't get them with anything other than new construction. The math favors these forte buyers - Can you imagine what some others will pay in taxes through 2023? Also there are no $650k units there with CCs as high as $900+. Hyperbolic statements are no substitute for facts.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:55 PM

8:38, 8:45 and 9:54...

Since they don't list common charges on their website, the only logical conclusion would be that you are a competing broker trying to sabatoge Forte sales.

There is really no other conclusion to make.

Well besides for the fact that 9:55 also just called you out on giving out false information also.

No one on here is stupid enough not to do their own research or to trust the words of an anonymous poster. You are either incredibly naive or incredibly ignorant to not give more credit to the brownstoner readers.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:58 PM

Is there any chance that the misinformed. negative, and vitriolic posts are coming from happy, fulfilled people who are secure with the choices they've made in their own lives?

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 10:40 PM

6:37...yes it is. it's two blocks east of classon. the OP (broker) at 1:09 said that the next closest place in brooklyn that has apts. this cheap is greenwood heights, I kind of resented that.
7:18...yes amenities...it has 13' ceilings, a gym, 24-hr doorman, and is 2 years old- so appliances are pretty new. as for the end of your post, I'm not really sure what the relevance is.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 11:11 PM

Hmmmm, soes the square footage seem grossly exaggerated on those floorplans?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 12:59 AM

There have been such plans for a while. The only one that are likely to go forward is the one for the BAM space itself (non-residential) and it wont be nearly as tall as the forte. Don't hold your breath waiting for that jenga apartment building to get built. If you're confident that it will get made please let me know when and with whom the financing commitment was made - fact is no such commitment has been made. Which bank would be so foolish as to offer money for that project, at this time, in this economy, with the current stock of apartments out there?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 8:46 AM

worse: it isn't even HVAC, it is a concrete elevator / mechanicals box. Apalling mistake by the architect. Look more carefully next time you walk past - these units have crap below window ACs fronted by grills! yuck!

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 9:07 AM

Is there any chance that the misinformed. negative, and vitriolic posts are coming from happy, fulfilled people who are secure with the choices they've made in their own lives?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:02 AM

10:02 - Yes.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:23 AM

zinka - guess i'll believe on this one, but it doesn't seem to add up.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 10:26 AM

10:23 - How are vitriol and negativity consistent with being happy, fulfilled and secure?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 11:08 AM

Many poeple that want to move to Brooklyn and to the BAM area want the Brooklyn lifstyle which is a neighborhood of families,brownstones and row houses. It is so out of character is has little appeal. No wonder sales are off. I do not think the neighborhood has given it much of an endosement either. Lots of sales are word of mouth so if you do not like the development your not going to be encouraging.

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 1:25 PM

"How are vitriol and negativity consistent with being happy, fulfilled and secure?"

You don't live in New York, do you?

Posted by: guest at January 29, 2008 7:28 PM