Open House Picks: Six Months Later 8/3/07

Looks like Brooklyn real estate is faring very well amidst the general devastation of finacial markets. People need to live somewhere. If you have the money parking it in a house is still plenty smart.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:07 PM

I don't get this feature. (admittedly, I am a bit s-l-o-w)

Is it to show the advertisers (brokers) that properties move if they are the HOTD?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:08 PM

14th Street between 3rd and 4th is Gowanus. 1.2 million to breath in truck fumes to your heart's and lung's content. What a bargain.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:20 PM

I believe the purpose is to show that as of nov/dec 2007 the market was actually still pretty strong in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:22 PM

I love the brokers who rely on Brownstoner's selective HOTD updates to conclude that the market is strong.

Don't worry, brokers of the world, most people are smart enough not to listen to you (meaning, they have a pulse).

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:25 PM

I thought the purpose was to show that prime areas like Ft. Greene and Park Slope go for over asking price and the fringe areas go for less or don't sell at all.

No?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:27 PM

That is not Park Slope, or even South Slope, and is certainly not prime.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:31 PM

I think the point is: 'whatever happened to that open house pick of the day on 20th street that I loved and probably could not afford?" "Oh, look they did sell it. I am glad, but I am sorry that the house isn't mine!"
It is a follow up. Like most other posts here- follow up stories.
I like the feature. I am not sure where all the snarkiness has come from.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:33 PM

1:07 - These properties closed in october and november, probably went into contract well before that. The financial crisis had really just begun then. With all of the bad news since, including massive layoffs on wall street, I seriously disagree that "if you have money parking it in a house is still plenty smart."

Right now - if you have a pile of cash on hand, tying it up in property in New York is pretty idiotic. If the NYC real estate market weathers the storm, then great. But if not? Then you effectively lose a large portion of your down payment over the short term, plus lose the "sunk" cost of interest on your mortgage. And you might just find yourself out of a job and in need of that cash in the interim.

Since NYC real estate is unlikely to see more than modest gains over the near term, potential buyers don't really lose much, if anything over the short term by sitting back and letting your cash collect interest.

Just to anticipate the inevitable responses - I already own and am not looking. However, I have a lot of friends who might otherwise be in the market to buy right now (30s, getting married, etc), but all of them are sitting on their cash for the time being.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:34 PM

14th is prime to me.

it sold for over asking price, so clearly someone liked it.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:34 PM

1:34

The Credit Crisis began in late June. By early July it was all over the news.

You are the same person who pushes the date back of the Credit Crisis each month when people say the housing market in Brooklyn is doing fine.

I remember you doing it about 2 months ago saying the EXACT SAME THING.

It's tiresome to say the least.

These homes sold in the thick of the housing crisis. It's a shock to your system...I know it, but pull yourself up, dust yourself off and realize that yes...people do still need a place to live.

You gonna be ok?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:36 PM

"but all of them are sitting on their cash for the time being."

They are idiots. Saw Suze Orman on Larry King last night and she commented how moronic people are who now think that sitting on a pile of cash earning next to NO interest is smart.

Interest rates falling means your money market and savings accounts will be earning less than 2% interest in the coming months.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:39 PM

I'd rather have a home to live in than a pile of cash.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:41 PM

1:36 - I am not disputing the starting date of the credit crisis. But what you seem to have missed while hiding in your naively optimistic little cave is that things have gotten MUCH WORSE since then. I never claimed two months ago that the NYC real estate market would collapse, much less immediately. I only said there was a risk of a decline in property values over the medium term. That risk is still there and if anything is higher than it was two months ago.

Look, real estate markets (esp in the land of the $700k one bedroom) are all about confidence. In July, people thought the credit crisis would all be over by the end of the summer. In September, they thought it would end with 2007. But now? It's finally set in that we are in for a long period of little to no growth. I'd also note that wall street layoffs are really just now starting to eat significantly into non-real estate related businesses. Will the NYC real estate market tank? I hope not. But it is rational and likely that many potential buyers will sit on the sidelines for a while.

So the question is - are you really naive enough to think that the fact that a couple of houses sold in September proves that everything is going to be fine for NYC real estate? If you are I truly feel sorry for you.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:51 PM

"Interest rates falling means your money market and savings accounts will be earning less than 2% interest in the coming months."

Maybe short term but if this recession turns into a depression, or if the FED decides to sharply raise interest rates to combat inflation (when they realize dropping them does little for the economic crisis like Japan circa 1980's/1990's), we will have a deflationary spiral that will rebound the dollar. In that case, even dollars in a mattress will appreciate in value. Don't sleep on the dollar.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:52 PM

the rise of interest rates takes YEARS, 1:52.

we were down to less than 2% in 2001 and it has only just gotten back up to around 4.50% for the average savings account.

by the time your scenario plays out (if it plays out) home prices will be back on track to earn more than 2 or 3% a year.

especially in nyc.

come on now.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:54 PM

1:39 - someone quoting Suze Orman as gospel has no right to refer to anyone as an "idiot." Pot, kettle, all that.

Even if returns on cash are low over the medium term, they at least won't be negative. And liquidity is very important for some people right now, esp. younger folks at banks whose job security is essentially non-existant.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:58 PM

1. I don't believe prices are going up again for a while. That said, the whole argument that, "Well, yeah, this house sold for a bundle, but that was three months ago, and just you wait, it's all gonna hit the fan..."? I've been reading that here for three years at least, over and over again.

2. All the people who get so cheesed that people spend big $$$ on little South Slope/Gowanus houses when they could buy a giant brownstone in [your neighborhood here]--they're probably having an aneurysm over the 14th Street house.

LOL ka-chingo ka-chingo I love it

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:02 PM

in 2 wweks, ING will be 3%.

they have a lag time of about 2 weeks when the interest rates are lowered.

and there's another cut on the way next week.

by the middle of feb. ING will be in the neighborhood of 2.5% interest.

wish it weren't so. i LOVE ING. they make saving money FUN!

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:04 PM

"1:39 - someone quoting Suze Orman as gospel has no right to refer to anyone as an "idiot." Pot, kettle, all that."

Why is that? Because you know more about personal finance than highly successful best selling author with her own radio and tv programs???

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:05 PM

good market/bad market only matters to first time buyers. a bad market actually HELPS people trading up.

btw, I think this feature and I look forward the the posts that say "well, yeah, this was JUST BEFORE the market slow down". They've been saying that for 18 months now on the "just closed" feature.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:13 PM

2:05 - actually, yes. Being able to sell a few books in flyover country proves nothing about one's level of actual knowledge. Nor does having a successful TV show. See, e.g., Jim Cramer. I don't want to get into the business of proving my personal qualifications, but rest assured that I do very well managing my personal finances without having to look for ideas on the shelves at Barnes and Noble.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:14 PM

Suze beat Jim Cramer and placed second after The Donald as "Most Annoying Money Personality"

http://money.aol.com/best-and-worst-in-money-2006/most-annoying-money-expert

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:16 PM

Suze Orman is worth about 50 million bucks, 2:14.

You also?

If so, then I concede.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:17 PM

Discussions like the one above have to be Exhibit A in any argument that this blog is a favorite for brokers looking to pump the NYC market. Why else would otherwise inoccuous comments about potential buyers who feel no urgency right now provoke such heated responses? Really, eveyone, isn't it obvious that only bokers would argue that, in this market, YOU HAVE TO BUY NOW! YOU'D BE AN IDIOT TO WAIT! REAL ESTATE ONLY GOES UP!

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:11 PM

I think what's REALLY absurd is that you assume those comments are made by a broker.

Or more just ignorant, I guess.

I made a couple of those comments and I don't know the first thing about brokers...being one or the like.

Here is another prime example of how assuming makes an ASS of you and...well you again.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:23 PM

Wow I used to live in the 14th Street house in the late 90's up until 2001. It was a 4 family w/o any rent controls. Mostly students lived there. It was owned by the same guys who owned the Brooklyn Inn bar building on Bergen St. The building would require a complete gut as there had been no upgrade in utilites at all. The garden floor still had the big cast iron trough sink with no counter tops, mounted next to the chimney stove. You could see down into the basement through the floorboards. Also the place never had any great details and the ones left over were prety worn down. For you history freaks the place still had the remains of the old wooden outhouse back in the rear corner of the garden from before they had running water. The place must have been neglected for decades in a good sort of way as it was certainly a historical artifact. The basement still had lead pipes for drinking and some of the electric wiring ran across these little ceramic/glass bushing things. The basement had this gigantic monster of a cast iron washer with these rubber wringers. It was so heavy no one ever tried to get rid of it.
If the building was still in the same shape as when i left it congratulations for getting over asking price. By the way the brokers were already calling the neighborhood Park Slope back in '96 when i moved in.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:51 PM

Here's the deal:
-although financial markets are rocky, we have yet to post a negative GDP quarter since sometime in 2001. You need 2 or more to call a recession.
-most economists including the fed's are now saying that a recession will most likely be avoided.
-unemployment numbers remain relatively low, that's a good sign.
-Stimulus packages have been passed through congress and the Fed has lowered interest rates, that a good thing for the lower classes.
-the housing market in NYC has not taken a nose dive (see above examples) as was abundantly predicted by many poorly informed posters here.
-it makes sense that if the economy is stable and spring is about 8 weeks away, people looking to get into a house in new york should start making some deals or risk losing out on whatever leverage you may still have over scared flippers and owners who are rapidly realizing that the rental market is very strong in New York.
No, I'm not a broker, just a keen observer tired of hearing people lament how they "lost out on a buying opportunity" when every economics book tells you to buy on the dips. Hey, but you don't have to own, this is America after all.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:00 PM

I feel my place is still undervalued.

I mean a 1 bedroom for 600K?

Come on!

They go for a million in Manhattan!!!

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:00 PM

If you are curious as to why this post exists and is rather enjoyable.....

It gives some of us the ability to see just how STUPID Some of the loud mouthed nay-sayers that bark about how a the Fort Green property was so overvalued and would never sell.

Well, now we know the naysayers were truly idiots and that was enjoyable!

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:00 PM

Where is The tWhat?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:14 PM

4:00...here is an epecially juicy comment from our friend kuroko about the 20th street house made way back when...there are some other really good ones on that thread! Anyone care to serve him/her up a hat to eat??!!

****
Imagine standing at the corner of 5th avenue and 20th while looking up the street at your $700,000 purchase with a friend and explaining with a straight face that you have spent wisely. Then, walk in the "house", worried that anyone over 5'10" tall would be prevented from entering certain parts for fear of banging their heads, and defending that position. Charming yes. Cute, maybe. Good buy, not so much. This is less than 1200 square feet of living space on a scrappy, noisy, designated truck route , no-amenity street. The renovation is a do it yourself special which is all fine and dandy if you are going to live with the results. The minute you try and pass it off on someone else at market rate is where you lose most people. They have painted themselves in a corner with their color choices and their country kitchen/shabby chic aesthetic. I'll eat my hat if this goes for what they are asking.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:20 PM

"2:05 - actually, yes. Being able to sell a few books in flyover country proves nothing about one's level of actual knowledge. Nor does having a successful TV show. See, e.g., Jim Cramer. I don't want to get into the business of proving my personal qualifications, but rest assured that I do very well managing my personal finances without having to look for ideas on the shelves at Barnes and Noble."

Your small-minded inability to recognize success outside of your zip code is not sad, it's rather oh-so-typically-boringly provincial. Like those traders masturbating to dreams of ever-fancier derivative instruments, your lack of imagination about the world is showing clearly through a tired veneer of haughtiness. Bah.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:02 PM

Things change month-to-month. Just a personal anecdote: In September, I let myself get into a bidding war over a house, and I ended up bidding way over asking. Regardless, I didn't get the house because I refused to go up any further. The house went into contract in October and just closed in December. If the same situation arose today, just 4 months later, there is no way in hell I would have bid over the asking price for that house. And I am willing to bet my right toe that the house would not have entered a bidding war to begin with. Things feel much bleaker now and the psychology has changed. No matter what the HOTD shows.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 7:12 PM

I've got the boltcutters, 7:12. Give me the toe.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 9:23 PM

I think 14th Street was a flip.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 10:19 PM

7:12 = ignoramus

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 10:50 PM

Emigrant Direct is a good option as well as ING. Just sayin.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 10:54 PM

SO AWESOME that Ft Greene and South Slope sold OVER asking in this time of crisis.

It should be shocking that they sold at all. But that they sold OVER the peak price! Delicious.

I chalk it up to lack of inventory, surplus of buyers still needing a home. No real estate slump will slow down the pace of gentrification once it's started in certain areas.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:15 AM

To the IDIOT who keeps defending Suze Orman:

Do you also rely on Dr. Phil for psychological advice?

By the way, Suze Orman made most of her money... how? ... by appearing on TV and selling books!! She is a TV personality. Do you understand now?

"B-b-b-but Suze Orman sez..."

"B-b-b-but Jim Cramer sez..."

"B-b-b-but Dr. Phil sez..."

"B-b-b-but Joel Osteen sez..."

Cretin.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 8:14 AM

This is also for the lame ass who defends Suze Orman. If you watched her last appearance on the other idiot Larry King's show, you will know that she said "she didn't get" or "understand" all those macroeconomic issues or the stock market. No, no, no, she's all about "personal finance". She doesn't understand the other stuff. Yeah, solid. Real solid.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 10:16 AM

being an expert on personal finance is more than i can say for you, 10:16.

you are a boob.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 10:38 AM

Now I'm really worried about the What... it's been a while and I miss him.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 10:39 AM

I think Suze Orman herself is trolling this thread.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 10:44 AM

i think dick cheney (10:44) is trolling this thread.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:11 AM

Suze Orman is The What.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:52 AM

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Absolutely!

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:07 PM

i love suze.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 1:02 PM

I wonder why the "proper" grouping of homes for 6 months ago (July 27, 2007) was skipped?

Windsor Terrace
169 Windsor Place
$1,225,000
No sales data available

Columbia Waterfront
22 Carroll Street
$1,195,000
Sale closed for $1,025,000

Cobble Hill
14 Warren Place
$1,125,000
Sale closed for $1,200,000

Bay Ridge
82 72nd Street
$969,000
Price dropped to 919k - in contract

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 4:23 PM

I am a CPA, MBA from NYU - Suze Orman is a personality only - Jerry Springer makes lots of money too. If you had the stomach and gall to do what he does you could make lots of dough too. She states the same basic advice meant to appeal to the uninformed non-financially saavy mainstream. Her success actually proves how financial illiterate most people are. Many, if not all credentialed people agree with this.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 8:37 PM

cpa, mba, nyu...

zzzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 10:57 PM

4:23

The grouping of homes you show was done the previous week.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 11:47 AM