Open House Picks

re 304 President - Elliman says it's zoned for PS58 but the DoE website says PS32.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:43 PM

no that street is zoned for ps 58 - if it really is btw. smith and hoyt.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:49 PM

304 President is the second house in from the corner of Smith. The Carroll St subway entrance is right there, and PS 58 is right around that corner. This house is up for sale for the second time in as many years. The previous owner sold it because of the excessive noise coming from Gowanus Yacht Club directly across from it. I don't know the reason the current owners are selling.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:57 PM

Shouldn't that Carroll Gardens house be listed at $3.9m? That's the going rate these days, right?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 1:58 PM

President St sold for $1.525 in Jan 2005 so given the uptick in the market for CG/CH/BH/PS/ townhouses a $600k premium over three years seems pretty reasonable. Honestly I wouldn't have been surprised if it had been priced at $2.3m and so if it sells for over ask it won't come as a shock.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:05 PM

Finally, a CG house that's priced correctly.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:07 PM

the living room of the Park Place house is the exact same size of my living room, and i'm renting an apartment. lolz!

the kitchen is pretty hot though.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:09 PM

don't understand why that's funny, 2:09.

also don't understand grown adults who write "lolz"

kinda weird.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:12 PM

The current owners are probably selling for the same reasons as the previous owners. Priced to sell before the GCYC opens.
I am fairly certain that block is zoned for 32. I know several families on the block with school age kids and that is what they told me. However, no kid on that block attends 32 unless it is for the excellent pre-K program.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:13 PM

definitely zoned for P.S. 58. check insideschools.org

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:28 PM

I don't understand grown adults who write without capitalizing.

Kinda weird.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:44 PM

Comon bloggers y0u are being far too tame. Are you all medicated today?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:45 PM

Forgive my ignorance, what is GCYC?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:46 PM

Compliments of InsideSchools here's the zone map for PS32

http://insideschools.org/images/zone/431.jpg

and for PS58

http://insideschools.org/images/zone/435.jpg

So I am guessing the north side of the Street is 32 and the south side is 58.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:49 PM

What is wrong with having a yatch club next to the house? Doesn't that mean it has water views?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:52 PM

When they type GCYC (Carrol Gardens Yacht Club) I think they were referring to the Gowanus Yacht Club (GYC) on the corner of Smith & President which has a very noisy beer garden.

http://newyork.citysearch.com/profile/35187140

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:53 PM

The Gowanus Yacht Club is only open in the summer.

Sure its outdors, but it only seats 30 people max and the music is non existant.

Very noisy, i dont think

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 2:59 PM

"What is wrong with having a yatch club next to the house? Doesn't that mean it has water views?"

You can also use the slip to pull your boat up to.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:00 PM

Thank you for a voice of reason, 2:59.

Everyone with half a brain knows that no one is moving BECAUSE of the Gowanus Yacht Club.

It's absurd.

It's like saying you moved because of the knitting store next door.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:02 PM

The Park Place house is nice and if delivered vacant worth the price although the floorplans are awful. You have to walk through a bedroom to get to the bathroom. The bath in the rental unit looks very tiny. But it's a house and it's in the Slope.
What do you expect? A rational layout for 2.8 million? Get real!

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:03 PM

305 President is cut up into three apartments. It would never really feel like a private residence unless the top two units were combined. I assume it does not come with a r.r. tenant.
Its other problem is that the exterior is ugly. The front door is straight from the honeymooners set.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:10 PM

I mistyped the GYC because I am so high on the benzene that I can't think Gowanus without the canal.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:23 PM

"It's like saying you moved because of the knitting store next door."

Those incessant clicking needles. I'd move for sure.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:30 PM

3:10 PM

I disagree. The townhouse I own is just this configuration; we live on the parlor level and garden levels and have a finished basement with 8" ceiling heights that contains a 450 sq ft play room for the children/media room as well as a separate laundry and bathroom (and boiler room). Basically all three floors (apart from the stoop entrance door) is our private space.

Living as we do it totally feels like a private residence to me.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:43 PM

I live in FL and it is really stunning to see what it costs to purchase in New York. Don't get me wrong. The character that these homes have is incredible compared to the cookie cutter homes I see on a daily basis, but wow. In 2006, I paid $186K for my house - 1700sq feet, 3br, 2ba, 2 car garage.

Seriously, how does a middle class family go about buying the $650K place at 2777 Bedford Ave? Even assuming a 20% down payment, you're still looking at at nearly $520K on a 30 year mortgage. That's $3000 a month in mortgage payments assuming an interest rate of 5.75% And from what I have been reading, $650K is on the lower end of the pricing spectrum.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:46 PM

but it's florida...

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 3:54 PM

304 President is definitely PS 58. South side of President on that block is 58. I know, I live on the south side and my kids attend 58.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:04 PM

A few comments for 3:46 -

The definition of middle class in NYC is skewed as there are a lot more wealthy people per SF of residential space. Also the median income is higher than many other areas. $3000/mo is do-able for households making $150k/yr.

The Brooklyn College place could be ~2500sf if the basement were finished. Many families here live in half that (or less). With supply and demand for real estate here, people do not move to New York to get a lot of space for their money.

Yes, the Brooklyn College place costs less than similar size places. However, it's relatively far from "it all" compared to other neighborhoods - kind of how Florida is very far from NYC. Also keep in mind that other properties may support tenants/rental income.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:07 PM

Florida will be under water in 5 years. Why would you pay any money for that?

CG and PS houses are overpriced.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:11 PM

Also for 3:46, if people have owned an apartment in NYC first before buying a house, their down payment is far bigger for a house than what people pay in Florida. Here, we were able to pay 60% cash towards our house after selling our coop, because it appreciated so much. You never see that in other parts of the country. I'm not saying it's better, it's just different. And yet, yes, it's still hard. But we could never make money in our field anywhere else, so we deal with it.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:16 PM

Lower Manhattan will be under water too. Hopefully not, but I do worry.

My parents are retired in FL and I wish they'd have cashed out and sold AGES ago to relocate to another state. They almost did, then diddled around and changed their minds. Now their big townhouse is worthless and completely ubiquitous because they bought in some cookie cutter subdivision and not something special in the historic in-town area.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:19 PM

2:59 and 3:02: The previous ownerw of 304 President DID move because of the Gowanus Yacht Club and told a family member of mine who was friendly with them. Having two small children and desperately trying to get to sleep, they could no longer stand the carousing and loud music very late at night. There is music, and it IS LOUD. If you think it's not, then you're as drunk as everyone else in there late at night.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:23 PM

Actually, 4:19...the thing about the rise in sea levels is that Manhattan would be able to build a sea wall around the city to protect it from the rising sea.

If Florida were to do the same, it would eliminate the one and only good thing about the place...the beach.

So not to worry...we will not go under water here...it would never get to that point. They would build that wall faster than you could blink.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:27 PM

If you like the arts, Florids is not the place for you.

Florida is a cultural wasteland.

It is the antithesis of NYC.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:28 PM

"They would build that wall faster than you could blink."

Yeah, almost as quickly as the 2nd Avenue subway.

Please, NYC can't even keep the trains running when it rains. Once the sea level rises a few feet, we're truly screwed.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:40 PM

And that'll make the houses between 8th Ave & PPW in PS worth even more! :D

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:42 PM

The subways are screwed if the sea level rises a foot or two. The storm sewers are woefully inadequate.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:42 PM

I wish I lived in FLorida.
I wish I had a garage and a laundry room.
I don't give a shit about culture.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:46 PM

you and half the country, 4:46.

sad, but true.

people like you make me wish i weren't american.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:49 PM

4:40...

You're kinda slow, aren't you??

You are comparing a sea wall which would save one of the most powerful cities in the world, Wall Steet, a couple million people to ONE subway line out of how many? 30? 50?

If there were predictions about a significant sea level rise for Manhattan, do you really believe people would just sit back and allow the city to flood?

You can't POSSIBLY be that idiotic.

Can you?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:51 PM

PEOPLE: some research--

106 Park Place in Park Slope is classified as a Converted dwellings or rooming house (C5) and has 6 units. And all 6 units are "B" units as per NYC HPD!! That meant they are SRO units.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 4:59 PM

Regarding 304, There is some noise from Smith St, but it can mitigated if you have good windows and central a/c.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:00 PM

how does someone who works all their life end up making 30K a year after all those years? i'm being serious, not snarky.

that was my starting salary as a 24 year old with a job in the arts in 2000.

i thought it was not enough to live on at the time.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:01 PM

Last trade for Park Slope house:

Sale price --$1,300,000
Sale date--1/31/2006

So someone bought it as an SRO, cleaned it up, and is trying to sell it while it's STILL an SRO.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:02 PM

A lot of these places have SRO status and are no longer being used as SRO's.

Come on now. You people should know this by now.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:04 PM

AND the Park Place house is 16.6' wide. Waaay overpriced for a narrow SRO. Dream on flipper.
Narrow houses don't sell for almost $3 million in Park Slope, sorry.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:04 PM

"Narrow houses don't sell for almost $3 million in Park Slope, sorry."

Actually in this part of Park Slope, they do.

You don't know much about North Slope prices, apparently.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:06 PM

4:51 - "if there were predictions"????????????? there ARE predictions - and they're woefully optimistic I'm afraid to say, as several studies this fall found that arctic sea ice has melted at TWICE the rate that even the most pessimistic climate models predicted. Sea levels are now expected to rise much more rapidly than previously thought. If you don't believe me, go ask the insurance companies why they're beginning to refuse insurance to Brooklyn homeowners. There is something called DENIAL - and I would think that after Katrina you would have snapped out of the extremely naive state which you clearly enjoy wallowing in.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:06 PM

"If there were predictions about a significant sea level rise for Manhattan, do you really believe people would just sit back and allow the city to flood?"

Seing how well the government responded to New Orleans, I'd say "Yes."

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:07 PM

"A lot of these places have SRO status and are no longer being used as SRO's.

Come on now. You people should know this by now. "

If you don't have a certificate of no-harassment, it's an SRO and you have to get that certificate. Everyone knows it's a huge process and it ALWAYS gets a discount. I don't see the discount at $2.8 mm for a narrow SRO. HPD lists the house as having 6 "B" units, and that means it has 6 SRO units. Period. That means there is no certificate of no-harassment in place.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:07 PM

RE: Park Slope House:

Job #310037778
10/16/2007 A1 Reduce occupancy from three (3) families to a two family residence. $25,000

Job #301349823
10/27/2005 A1 ** Post appoval amendment **
05/28/2002 A1 Reduce occupancy from an sro to a four family residence. $50,000
02/5/2003 A1 ** Post appoval amendment **
02/13/2003 A1 ** Post appoval amendment **
02/24/2003 A1 ** Post appoval amendment **
Job #301107255
12/26/2000 A2 Replace bathroom fixtures at 2 & 3 floor s.no change to egress,occupancy or use.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:09 PM

"You don't know much about North Slope prices, apparently"

Oh but I do. I know my comps very well. And if I feel like producing the research after I unwind from my commute, I'll post it. Otherwise, you do your own research.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:09 PM

Whoever said Park Slope house is an SRO is a LIAR.

Please see post at 5:09 or look at Property Shark for yourself.

It is a 2 FAMILY.

Do some freakin research, before spreading LIES.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:10 PM

5:01 - this person's parents are probably living on some kind of pension. However, I'm sure plenty of people end up making that amount at an old age after getting laid off and then having to find a new job as a shoe salesman or some such. I work at a major media corporation and the starting salary here is $24,000 (plus overtime) BTW - no benefits - and some kids work at that pay for several years.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:11 PM

If you are REALLY comparing New Orleans to New York City, then you are even more ignorant than I thought.

Without New York City, there is NO MORE UNITED STATES.

And I live in PS between 7th and 8th...on HIGH GROUND. So not only do I get homeowners insurance just fine, my house will be worth 100 million by the time this flood happens if you really think that New York City will stay the same, just with some areas underwater.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:13 PM

"Without New York City, there is NO MORE UNITED STATES"

How vain.

Everything that happens here can and will move.

Capital is global.

Dubai will be the new NYC by 2030.

Mark my words.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:17 PM

5:11...i guess you're right. my asst. makes about that much now. i don't know how she does it.

i'm lucky to have tripled my salary in the last 8 years working at the same arts related company, but i know that's not common.

i'm always impressed by people who are able to do so well on a relatively small amount of money.

more people should strive for that.

btw, if everyone really wants to do one thing that will help our economy out most, take a look at where what you buy comes from, and if at all possible, buy something made in america.

or at the very least, NOT china.

it would literally do wonders for this country.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:17 PM

5:17. Typical asshole park slope post.

even if park slope was the only neighborhood not underwater, i still wouldn't live there.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:19 PM

sorry, i meant 5:13

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:20 PM

"Everything that happens here can and will move."

How will it move if that asshat thinks that NYC will flood overnight?

And sorry bud...I've been to Dubai...twice now...and no one wants to live there NOW...the city is 80% investors. It's a hellhole. Even the people who DO live there know it and are just trying to exploit it for every dollar they can.

Trust me on this one...in 30 years or whenever the climate change armageddon comes, not many of us are going to be packing up for the 130 degree middle eastern desert.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:20 PM

"buy something made in america."

Like what, for example?

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:21 PM

"buy something made in america."

Like what, for example?

Just look when you go to the store. It's not a hard and fast rule, but try it. I've started looking and just have decided not to buy it if it's made in China.

There are plenty of other options. You just have to look.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:24 PM

"RE: Park Slope House:

Job #310037778
10/16/2007 A1 Reduce occupancy from three (3) families to a two family residence. $25,000 "

Sorry, Pal. You're either misinformed or you're the liar. Don't call me a liar. I'm telling you what Property Shark, DOB and HPD show for this house. DOB says that job was DISAPPROVED.

Premises: 106 PARK PLACE BROOKLYN
Job No: 310037778

Last Action: PLAN EXAM - DISAPPROVED 10/23/2007 (J)

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/COApplicationSummaryServlet?requestid=0&passjobnumber=310037778&passdocnumber=01&allisn=0001434521&allbin=3019091

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:28 PM

3:10
Its not 305 President, Its 304 President. I just walked by and the outside is lovely.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:29 PM

that ouside is NOT lovely.

not in the least.

no cornice, no likey.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:33 PM

for those trashing Florida for being a cultural wasteland, Miami has a thriving arts scene (look up Art Basel Miami, for example).

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing most of the state under the ocean.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:35 PM

When the flood waters come, Park Slope will still suck. Suck it slopers.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:35 PM

Regarding 106 Park Place--anyone considering this house should MAKE SURE all paperwork is in place and that the Certificate of No-Harassment exists. Just clear it up before you buy. Your lawyer should take care of it.

The HPD website show it still has 6 units on file as being "B" units. "B" units are SRO units. So, if HPD is mistaken, that needs to be corrected.

http://167.153.4.71/hpdonline/select_application.aspx

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:37 PM

To all those who say Park Slope is not diverse, here are the stats for the area of 106 Park Place:

47.90% White
31.60% Black
0.60% Native American
0.10% or Alaskan Native Islander
11.10% Asian
24.70% Hispanic

19.50% Families w/Children
24.60% Families Married
10.50% Married w/Children
15.10% Female Household
7.60% Female w/Children
56.60% Non-Family
39.60% Single Household

So unlike what everyone thinks, 11217 looks nearly half single, and under half white.

What's with all the people who say it's only white moms with kids in PS?

The stats are a small surprise to me, but I always had a hunch Park Slope was more diverse than everyone said it was.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:43 PM

The reason those figures add up to more than 100% is because some people check more than one option, btw.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:44 PM

sunset park is the highest point

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:44 PM

There could have been an error at some stage in the paper work for the Certificate of Occupancy for Park Place house. If HPD still shows B units, it needs to be cleared up. I was told in person by an HPD employee that they update their information regularly and that they are the final word. If it's an error, it should be able to be cleared up by someone who knows about it.

Not saying 106 Park Place is not legit, just saying that the public records show conflicting information and it should be cleared up. I went through this situation with a house in Ft Greene so I'm very sensitive to conflicting information regarding C of O with former SROs.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 5:50 PM

I'm going to start building my non-SRO Submarine this weekend, just in case those tides hit. See you all on the beach on 7th Ave.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 6:23 PM

Park Slope house is overpriced. It's narrow, and needs work. For the same price you can get one that's 20' wide and has a third exposure. I think this one is also overpriced, but it has a lot more detail and it's wider. No comparison. Regardless, neither will get $2.85.

http://realestate.nytimes.com/sales/detail/2136-DP8012119

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 6:28 PM

Park Slope is getting softy soft soft soft.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 6:40 PM

Love the super-wide lens photo of Park Place listing.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 6:42 PM

My parents are in Florida as well. They have a Brooklyn Club where they get together and kvetch about Florida. It's like Brownstoner in real time, without the real estate.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 6:46 PM

Park Slope is getting softy soft soft soft like the "brain" of 6:40.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 6:53 PM

you know, all of us fairly young Brooklynites have to accept the fact that to folks just a little older, Brooklyn = slum.
Many of our houses had been SRO's. So what?
Now they are family homes. It doesn't matter what it says in inaccurate RE records.
The thing is that unfortunately the prices have gotten a little ahead of themselves I think. We are due for a modest correction. But Brooklyn is still the place to own a house if you are young and sophisticated. Older guys think that we are living in Zimbabwe or something, but its not true. It's America. And in America the free market rules. If there is a correction it will be brief I think. The downside is that private property will no longer be affordable to middle-income Americans in Brownstone Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 7:54 PM

7:54 I really don't see any softening in townhouses in prime areas of Brownstone Brooklyn. (In alphabetical order) Brooklyn Heights, Boerum Hill, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Park Slope and certain areas in Fort Greene, prices are holding at the very least steady and probably still growing.

What protects us is that you can't really build any more of these (it's just not cost effective) and therefore it comes back to the basics of supply and demand. And prices at now $2m plus are largely already out of the reach of middle income NYC (let alone middle income America).

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 8:27 PM

8:27
That is what I find so weird. I know that poor folks were never able to afford these houses and restore them, but across the country, it has been the middle class that has recognized the beauty and livability of vintage houses and made them viable for a new generation. This is ending. These properties are now so expensive that they can only be afforded by developers who will cut them up into little loftlets or turn the site into "mews". I'm not optimistic about the future of unlandmarked brownstone Brooklyn.
Now that banks are willing to invest in areas within a thousand yards of a black family, which is good, It's also bad, because nobody is going to want to build lovely family homes. Well, it is inevitable.
I'm sure Tokyo was once full of exquisite homes with lovely gardens. C'est la vie. Bye Bye Brownstone.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 8:38 PM

Don't fret 8:38. There will be a real estate crash eventually and the houses will be more affordable. Even rising interest rates will slow down developers significantly. It will happen. I have lived here through 2 and half of these cycles and they will keep on happening.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 10:21 PM

I saw the Bedford Ave. one at an openhouse before X-mas. It's a cute house on a nice block but pretty shabby inside. I think that price is definitely going to come down.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 10:43 PM

8:27, did you read the paper today? I don't think even townhouses are going to be exempt.

Posted by: guest at January 25, 2008 10:47 PM

10:47 - Yup I read the paper and the rich are still getting richer and therefore those with a good credit score and a good salary with bonus are still able to find loans at decent interest rates to by property and townhouses in desirable areas specifically.

Major lenders are still eager to lend to those of us with the above.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 9:46 AM

Oops - it's still morning and the coffee is still kicking in, of course that should be "BUY property" -

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 9:49 AM

Properties that are well-priced will continue to sell. Overpriced properties will sit on the market

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 10:05 AM

"Dubai will be the new NYC by 2030."

Dubai will be the first place to be under water.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:00 AM

hahaha. good point, 11:00.

dubai is closer to sea level than most of brooklyn, that's for darn sure.

whoever said that was a TOTAL idiot.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:10 AM

Well, I saw the Park Place house last weekend, and I'll be shocked if they get asking. Paperwork or not, they gave it a surface skim with some paint, put up light fixtures, did the kitchen- but for the most part, it's B-grade work. And it's narrow.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:33 AM

"And it's narrow"

so kinda like your mind?

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:41 AM

"dubai is closer to sea level than most of brooklyn, that's for darn sure."

I give Dubai far better odds at building a sea wall if need be.

Entire new cities are being built in the UAE with a speed and agility that the US cannot possibly match.

The American Empire is over. Get used to it.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 11:50 AM

11:41--anyone who responds like that to another poster's description of a house is obviously connected to the property one way or another.

You might want to get used to the idea that this flip-job narrow house with C of O issues will not get $2.85. The comps don't support the asking price. Yet another house that will sit for a long time.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:02 PM

11:50.

no, actually dubai and abu dhabi are the only two major cities in the uae with any amount of growth right now.

and having just been there, i can tell you that an area right across the gulf from iraq, within spitting distance to iran and saudi arabia...neither will be one of the capitals of the world anytime soon.

can you please grow a brain.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:43 PM

12:02...is that so?

how much do you want to bet i am in no way related to the house?

care to put your money where your mouth is???

chickenshit.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:45 PM

DUBAI IS BEING BUILT BY EAST ASIAN SLAVES!!!!!

GOD, YOU PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS.

yes, it is being built fast. but by indonesian and east asian people who live 20 miles outside the city in unairconditioned camps and paid 100 bucks a month.

do you read, 11:50?

if you think that's the kind of city that will be the next world power, you are pretty naive.

if you had said china, maybe. but dubai?

don't believe everything you read in vanity fair, buddy.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:48 PM

12:45 = angry psycho

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 12:59 PM

so i'll take it that was a no on the bet...

the MOST annoying thing on this blog is the fact that people are so closed-minded that they think that because other people have different opinions than they do, that they MUST be the enemy (broker, seller).

the problem is...when we go back through the threads and these 6 month later HOTD'S, most of the people who said these properties were ridiculously overpriced, were wrong and most who said they would sell near asking, were correct.

it's kinda like the republicans and the democrats.

and like on brownstoner, the democrats are about to win.

again.

so quit your lying and your not-based-in-fact stances, republicans...i mean "this house is 1 million overpriced" people.

we are onto your lies and not going to stand for them anymore.

as we have learned, facts and majority rules take precedence over your own personal viewpoints.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 1:33 PM

I am an educated, progressive, open minded person and there's no way in hell I would move my home or my business to Dubai. That's a Dick Cheney move.

I can guarantee most people and companies in the Western World feel the same way.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 1:43 PM

1:33--Your post makes no sense and you are obviously freaking out. You got so riled up about someone's neutral comment about the house being narrow, that it is very suspicious, no matter what you say. Give me a break. And what bet? You think I'm going to give you, an anonymous poster, who also seems psychotic, any of my personal information to settle a bet? Are you insane?

This is a public forum about real estate, and people can say whatever they want about a house, its price, it's width, etc. The fact that you responded aggressively with PERSONAL insults to someone who said the house was "narrow" is really a sign of something else. So get over yourself. The house is narrow. The house is overpriced. The house is a bad flip-job. How is that a "lie"? It is an OPINION. You are seriously messed up, pal.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 1:48 PM

it was sarcastic, 1:48.

are you ok?

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 2:03 PM

Look, there are two ways to value a house.
You can calculate it as an investment -- what it would be worth if you rented it or what it costs relative to what you would spend to rent.

Using this "fundamental values" approach, every house sold in Brownstone Brooklyn in the last 3 years looks significantly overpriced: even after tax benefits, rental income, etc, it is cheaper to rent than to buy, and it is impossible to earn a reasonable return at current prices and current rents.

Under the "fundamental values" approach, current prices make sense only if buyers expect rents to soar in the relatively near future -- basically to go up at the rate that sales prices did in the last 5 years. It's hard to see why anyone would think that: rents can't go up faster than income for very long, and income isn't going up very fast.

The other way to value is to assume that people are not using the fundamental approach, and thus that sales prices need not be connected to rental values. There are only a limited number of brownstones/apts in Brooklyn/NY and perhaps there are enough wealthy people who want them as consumption rather than investment and are willing to pay whatever it takes to get them. If this is right, then it is rational to pay whatever it takes to buy a house even if you are an investor -- whatever you lose in the "fundamental" calculation, you will make up in capital gains when you sell to a rich consumer (or another investor who expects to sell to a rich consumer). People who don't like this theory call it the "greater fool" method or "musical chairs". People who find it convincing point to New York's status as a unique world city and assume that the rich who drive the process would never settle for Short Hills or Westchester or Paris.

The second theory clearly explains the price increases of the last several years. Going forward, though, it requires a regular influx of rich consumers who are willing to ignore standard investment calculations as they buy in Brooklyn. Without them, it is just a momentum game. Ordinary homebuyers, at some point, will lose confidence that the money they are losing every month will return when they sell, or they will simply be unable to make the monthly payments, or they will find more attractive alternatives in rentals or the suburbs or fringe neighborhoods or other cities, and they'll stop being willing to pay ever more.

And then the game ends, because if buyers start to think that prices might actually drop, the only rational thing to do is to pay LESS than fundamental value.

--Financeguy

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 4:57 PM

but new york city is different.

and the burbs suck.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 6:33 PM

Yes, Dubai is being built by people who are treated essentially like slaves.

Your point is what, exactly?

That nations rise to power by being nice?

And you call me naive.

Posted by: guest at January 26, 2008 10:01 PM

"The self-deluding universalism of the American imperium — that the world inherently needs a single leader and that American liberal ideology must be accepted as the basis of global order — has paradoxically resulted in America quickly becoming an ever-lonelier superpower. Just as there is a geopolitical marketplace, there is a marketplace of models of success for the second world to emulate, not least the Chinese model of economic growth without political liberalization (itself an affront to Western modernization theory). As the historian Arnold Toynbee observed half a century ago, Western imperialism united the globe, but it did not assure that the West would dominate forever — materially or morally. Despite the 'mirage of immortality' that afflicts global empires, the only reliable rule of history is its cycles of imperial rise and decline, and as Toynbee also pithily noted, the only direction to go from the apogee of power is down."

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 12:08 AM

Someone is taking International Political Theory 101...

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 12:40 AM

International Political Theory will be worthless once AY is built.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 12:53 AM

why do these open house pick comments inevitably stray so far from the open house picks that anything past 5pm on friday is not worth reading?

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 9:19 AM

9:19am i was wondering the same thing. where did this take a u-turn?

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 9:22 AM

Park Place house is on a beautiful landmarked block- with all the row houses intact and well kept. It's not being used as an SRO. There's a family in it. The prices are too high in general, but this one is not out of line with others that have sold on the block. I live across the street from it, and I don't own a house, or know the owner.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 9:42 AM

11:41 may not be affilitated with the narrow house but probably lives in one. Why else would they get so defensive over something so obvious.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 11:47 AM

It'd be an awesome feature to have live cams during these open houses.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 12:33 PM

"why do these open house pick comments inevitably stray so far from the open house picks that anything past 5pm on friday is not worth reading?"

Alcohol?

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 1:04 PM

I love each and every one of you...

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 3:44 PM

What no one goes to the open house? LOsers.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 3:59 PM

i miss park slope.

Posted by: guest at January 27, 2008 9:45 PM

"What no one goes to the open house? LOsers."

These houses aren't worth wasting a Sunday.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 12:22 AM

"how does someone who works all their life end up making 30K a year after all those years? i'm being serious, not snarky.

that was my starting salary as a 24 year old with a job in the arts in 2000.

i thought it was not enough to live on at the time."

Well, really, you're being ignorant about how half or more of the country lives. Do you have any idea what the median income in the US is? A little over $40,000. That means that half the whole country is living on something like the $33,000 quoted above. You are obviously an incredibly privileged person, something you ought to start recognizing.

It is an annoyance of lurking here that most commenters (not to mention brownstoner himself) take as an entitlement, as something they deserve and did not acquire largely by the accident of birth into the upper middle class, an incredibly high standard of living.

Bye.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:43 AM

Thank you for a cogent analysis, financeguy.

Put another way, houses in Brooklyn are worth what they've been selling for only if the current Ponzi scheme holds up.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 9:49 AM

9:43:

It's obvious that your low self esteem forces you to assert yourself in a manner which includes talking down to people to make you feel as though you are smarter than everyone else.

Do half those who own homes in New York City make under 30,000 a year?

Because I do believe that's what the poster was talking about. New York City.

There is a large difference in the cost of living in this city compared with much of the country, and I would also find it next to impossible to survive on 30,000 a year here. Even as a renter.

Do yourself a favor and stop twisting words around to suit your own little agenda.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 11:31 AM

Regarding Dubai, how ironic that the very people who drive rising sea levels through their oil businesses, which emit much of the world’s greenhouse gases, will undoubtedly be some of the first to experience the devastating effects of climate change.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 11:31 AM

Not ironic; it's appropriate, 11:31. They made their beds.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:03 PM

People who talk about NYC income and real estate prices like NYC is the only place on the whole entire planet that is the way it is, it's just so utterly stupid.

Ever heard of London? Paris? Tokyo? There's a whole world outside NYC. Don't know if you knew that. And in ALL these major international cities the RE prices are extraordinarily high. In fact, NYC is more affordable than those cities by a huge margin. Get an education and learn something about the world outside of Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 1:06 PM

"It's obvious that your low self esteem forces you to assert yourself in a manner which includes talking down to people to make you feel as though you are smarter than everyone else.

Do half those who own homes in New York City make under 30,000 a year?

Because I do believe that's what the poster was talking about. New York City.

There is a large difference in the cost of living in this city compared with much of the country, and I would also find it next to impossible to survive on 30,000 a year here. Even as a renter.

Do yourself a favor and stop twisting words around to suit your own little agenda."

No need to be touchy, 11:31, unless you felt the sting of people being characterized as feeling "entitled" just because they got born into the right families.

An earlier commenter noted that his parent owned a house and never earned more than about 33K a year, and a subsequent snotty response was essentially that no real person could live on such a pittance -- a response you have now repeated. I would just note that the latest median earnings reported for 11223, the zip code of Gravesend (I assume similar to Bensonhurst, the neighborhood in question) was 37K a year for men and 30K a year for women. Half of earners, of course, got less. Sorry if it hurts you to be made aware of this situation, but it's just a fact.

You may think it's impossible to live on such an income, but if you knew anything about the city you live in, you'd know there were millions of people here doing just that.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 2:21 PM

They don't own homes, though 2:21. And that's what the poster was referring to. His parents OWNING a home in Bensonhurst.

No on on that salary is buying property in NYC in 2008. Or extremely few.

And actually the commenter you are referring to specifically said..."i'm being serious, not snarky" so I do believe it is you who is being "touchy"

I think they were more saying they were impressed with people who can make it on that salary. You need to up your meds a little bit.

Too angry, bud.

Posted by: guest at January 28, 2008 7:30 PM