Open House Picks

Meh, meh.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 1:44 PM

So much for the idea that brokers and sellers were holding stuff back for the bonuses.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 1:49 PM

sackett street house has been on the market for many months. why choose it now?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 1:49 PM

not really into any of these.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 1:49 PM

STOP THE INSANITY!!!

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 1:50 PM

Problem is...these are all kinda fringe area properties and as news of an economic downturn becomes more of a reality, fewer and fewer people are interested in these non-prime areas.

Carroll Gardens is nice, but that house is hideous.

I'd take a 2-3 bedroom condo in Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope or Ft. Greene over any of the above houses.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 1:58 PM

Aside from the Sackett Street house, none of the other listings are worth a dime. Who the hell wants to live in those 'hoods?' Putnam Avenue is in the middle of the ghetto.

Mr. B, please bring back the Park Slope listings.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:00 PM

Bed Stuy is not doing well right now.

Crime is up significantly, there has been a surge in foreclosures and it looks like prices have come down.

Great for someone looking to invest for the very long-term future....10 years perhaps...but I think the price run-ups in Bed Stuy over the last 7 years or so have been excessive for what the neighborhood can bear.

I agree with Montrose...should be more like 650-675K.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:04 PM

Since not everyone can afford to, or wants to, live in Park Slope, why act like it's the only worthy neighborhood in Brooklyn? Variety gives a potential buyer an idea of what's out there. If pickings are slim, then they are slim in Park Slope too. Probably more so.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:05 PM

Why do you take the Park Slope bait so easily, 2:05?

Lord.

We all know Park Slope is nice, but that everyone in the world does not live there.

Some people like to stir the pot and bring it up on every thread.

Responding only continues the conversation longer.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:09 PM

455A Sackett just sold for $1.15 - I think almost same size. Great family block of more modest houses.
If want a 2 family - I'd make the garden level the rental - And make a upper duplex with kitchen on parlor level. Of course would take some money - But perhaps they would go down to 455A's price.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:10 PM

2:00- a lot of us want to live in "the hood". i guess that's why we're seeing so many new families and younger buyers moving in. we've been living close to the putnam listing for a year now and love our gorgeous house, and our diverse and tightly knit block. i would not have bought in park slope if you paid me. fort greene was "the hood" about 2 seconds ago as well, but wait...you would not have lived there either, right?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:10 PM

With all the problems in Bed Stuy, I don't think it's worth buying into. The days of buying fixer-uppers in the middle of a bad neighborhood are over.

Artists and middle class people are not going to move in and gentrify the area. If you buy in Bed Stuy or Crown Heights, you'll be stuck there for the next 5 to 10 years. Why pay 650K or 739K in the ghetto, when you can buy a condo for 550K or less in a better, more established neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:13 PM

"Forgot to add I think the Bed Stuy house is still a little high. $685 to $690ish seems more likely."

Yo MM, Can you find a Mortgage Calculator??!! How the hell 685K is "seems more likely."???!!!! this is north of 3700 per month. Please people this is NOT NORMAL.! We are in the Bizarro world.

These Sellers and the Fucktard Brokers (Who List This Shit) are going to get corn holed. That's right CORN HOLED!!!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:13 PM

park slope: too many subarus + brooklyn industries as cutting edge fashion. er, no thanks.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:13 PM

Stop feeding the troll---jeez you people are easy. 2:00 is not serious, can't you see it?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:14 PM

Another thread that will degrade into a hackneyed and stupid exercise in cliches.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:15 PM

Putnam might be "diverse and tightly knit" but you also need to expose the bad with the good, 2:10 or else you just sound like you're trying to justify what you paid for your house.

Bed Stuy is not eden. There, Bushwick, East New York and Brownsville saw increases in murders in 2007, even though the rest of the city saw a decline.

Those 4 areas are the "hot spots" of criminal activity in Brooklyn that continue to defy the overall crime decline in New York City.

While Putnam might be just fine, Bed Stuy still has many, many social problems that do not justify prices that people ask for their homes.

This Putnam house would have been asking 900K a year ago, so I think people there are realizing that the neighborhood still has a ways to go.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:16 PM

2:13- you have absolutely no clue. our neighborhood (westbed) is full of artists and middle class families...ever been to tiny cup on a sat morning?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:16 PM

We know, we know...everytime someone says something negative (albeit TRUE) about Bed Stuy, someone mentions that freakin Tiny Cup.

It's really silly.

And quite transparent.

One coffee shop does not a healthy neighborhood make.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:19 PM

No one is saying to NOT look to buy in Bed Stuy (although I personally would be wary about investing in that particular neighborhood at this moment).

The concern is the prices.

The neighborhood is in transition and things could go back to the way they were 10 years ago just as easily as they could continue the last few year wave of gentrification.

It's all about where you put your money, but you do have to wonder how much prices can really rise in Bed Stuy with a National Housing crisis on our hands, and prices even showing small declines in prime NYC neighborhoods.

If we go into a full-blown recession, places like Bed Stuy will feel the brunt of it.

And will also be the last place to show signs of increase.

The prices there are simply unsustainble at these levels.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:23 PM

not saying that it makes the neighborhood, merely that it shows the huge swing in the people who are moving here. i could have said the same about the ymca. anyway, this part of bed stuy is quite further along than other parts, with the exception of stuy heights- i'll admit it.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:25 PM

2:16, great, Bed Stuy has one good cafe on Nostrand Ave. Have you been to 5th Avenue in Park Slope or Myrtle in Ft. Greene?

I really think some of you posters are living in a dream. A few well intended artists and middle class families can not change a ghetto. There are too many poor & uneducated people in Bed Stuy for it to Change. Gangs, crackheads, welfare queens, it's impossible.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:27 PM

" If we go into a full-blown recession, places like Bed Stuy will feel the brunt of it.

And will also be the last place to show signs of increase.

The prices there are simply unsustainble at these levels."

Very true--and equally true of Midwood, PLG, Crown Heights, and others. They may all be fabulous places to live, but they need a good 10 years of solid change and growth before the prices are sustainable in a down economy--or in any market but a boom.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:32 PM

I'm not the Bed Stuy booster, but I don't agree with you 2:27.

I do believe Bed Stuy has made significant improvements (unquestionable!) but there is still tons to be done.

I agree that some are living in dream world (they have to, because they bought at high levels) but you are obviously quite new to Brownstone Brooklyn, because 10 years ago, you wouldn't have walked down either Myrtle Avenue OR 5th Avenue at night!

You are very VERY short-sighted. And while I don't believe Bed Stuy will gentrify at the same rate that Ft. Greene and Park Slope did (it has many more social ills and a higher concentration of poverty to overcome) certainly the neighborhood will make progress over time with the influx of new more wealthy residents.

They just need to do more than tout the neighborhood as the next paradise.

They need to get involved with the PTA, need to try to improve services and need to SUPPORT their local businesses.

Too often I see people who live in Bed Stuy who basically own a home there, but have no connection with their neighborhood at all. They shop in Manhattan, that take cabs everywhere and they really are not a part of the neighborhood like their Park Slope and Ft. Greene counterparts, who really from the ground up rebuilt those neighborhoods.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:33 PM

totally agree with many of these posters. look at condos in williamsburg - for the same money, you can get a ready to go brand new condo in a totally safe, gentrified neighborhood close to manhattan.

if you are a buyer, think twice about crime ridden ghetto hoods.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:33 PM

2:33...

While there are many people interested in new construction condos, most people looking for a brownstone in Brownstone Brooklyn are not the same buyer looking at new condos in Williamsburg.

They are very different buyers.

I wouldn't move to Williamsburg if you paid me. Nothing against the neighborhood, I just know I only want to live in a charming old building.

Apples and Oranges.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:38 PM

Actually this part of bed stuy had a 28% Decrease in murders and sales figures for the area are still healty. The neighborhood still has it's problems but that is why the house has a $400,000 discount compared to the same home 4 blocks over in Clinton Hill.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:39 PM

I've seen the sackett street house, broker informed me there are serious septic tank issues, in addition , there is a huge above ground pool occupying the whole backyard filled with green sludge.
The upper floors need alot of work and one of the bathrooms needs to be completed gutted due to water damage.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:40 PM

Why would a Brooklyn house have a septic tank.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:42 PM

"these are all kinda fringe area properties"

If you think carroll gardens is fringe the way
crappy prospect lefferts is fringe your smoking crack ... and should move to bed stuy.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:42 PM

"I just know I only want to live in a charming old building."

Is that worth your safey and that of your family?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:43 PM

2:43.

I live in Park Slope.

Thank you for the concern, though.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:46 PM

1:49 - we are well into the season of bonus communication and payout. Even for firms that communicate late - bonuses will be paid out long before any of these prporties could close.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:47 PM

The location of the Sackett St. house isn't bad -- it's a pretty nice block, although NOT zoned for the good Carroll Gardens elementary school. The condition of the house does matter. I wouldn't dismiss it entirely just because of the facade -- it does look like it was once a brownstone, just with that ugly siding put over that was popular in some bygone era in CG. That can be restored (although not that cheaply). So, what's a good price for a 3-story house that needs lots of work? $900,000? $1 million?

Actually, compared to that HOTD on 3rd place listed at 3.5 million for 3 stories, this is a bargain. (I'm just kidding).

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:49 PM

A septic tank? In Brooklyn?

Depending on the location on the block the house might have sewer back up issues which is part of the charm of living close to the Gowanus. Aside from that, it is a great block with many nice families.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:50 PM

Sackett St - 'septic tank issues'? I rather doubt septic tanks exist in NYC.
Also - crouchback - not so sure how 'down' the market is.
I follow the Corcoran listings in the area - and they seem to have all gone into contract lately. Including ones discussed on this blog and of course dismissed as overpriced (and believe it or not people actually got mortgages!, mr what) .

P.S. I'm not sure people are feeding the troll as in she is talking back and forth to herself pretending to argue.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:51 PM

2:39 for you:

The intervening year (2007) was chaotic and violent in this pocket of Brooklyn. As the citywide murder rate was dropping to its lowest level in decades, murder was on the rise in four neighborhoods here: Brownsville, East New York, Bushwick, and Bedford-Stuyvesant. Together, these adjacent police precincts in northeastern Brooklyn accounted for nearly a fifth of the city’s murders and almost half the borough’s. The police scanner rang out with these locales all year: a teen shot in the head in Bushwick Houses; two teens and a 21-year-old gunned down on Brownsville’s Lott Avenue, the site of at least three shootings; a 16-year-old pounded with two slugs to the chest in Bed-Stuy’s Tompkins Houses. On it went

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 2:57 PM

There's reality for yah. What do you Brownstone lovers think now?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:01 PM

Some of us in houses prefer not to force all our kids to share one tiny bedroom in a walk-up coop in Park Slope in which you can hear thundering footsteps over your heads all day and night, and freeze (or bake, depending on what floor you live on) because you don't control the thermostat. For some of us, putting up with all that and spending $800,000 to $1.3 million (for a co-op or condo) to do so, is just as crazy as it is to others for us to live in our "fringe" neighborhoods. Not all people want or value the same things. Accept it.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:06 PM

LM at 3:04 PM = broker or owner

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:07 PM

Crime and murder all over NYC is low and going lower. Crime and murder in the suburbs and rural areas is UP. As stated in stats released last week about 2007. If you'd rather live in the suburbs than buy in an affordable area of Brooklyn, go ahead.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:08 PM

You are a sociopath, 3:06.

And I believe have made some other off color remarks on this thread.

It's obvious which are yours.

There are other, more appropriate websites for you to infect, if Brownstones aren't your thing.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:09 PM

Maybe so, 3:07, but everyone knows everybody on their blocks in Leffers Manor, so it would not be unusual at all for a neighbor to know the seller and all about them. That poster's familiarity with the property alone is not evidence they are the seller or broker.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:10 PM

2:33 = 2:43 = 3:01 = 3:06 = 3:08

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:12 PM

Actually, that was my first post on this thread, 3:09.

Did you mean to respond to someone else? Because I'm rather confused what you are so upset about in my post. Unless you own a co-op? I don't get it.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:12 PM

3:12...

See post at 2:57.

Your stats on crime are not accurate.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:14 PM

Wrong, 3:12.

One of those posts is mine, but I did not post at any of the other times. I'd start logging in just to help counter these ubiquitous, unoriginal, erroneous claims of conspiracy we always see on Brownstoner again and again, but then the total psychos could target me by name. Some people have learned a hard lesson about that.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:17 PM

You once again prove in your post at 3:17 how paranoid and unstable you are.

All the signs are there of an emotionally difficient person.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:20 PM

From the NY Times on Jan. 1st, 2008:

"But as of Monday evening, one grim benchmark had not yet been passed. The police said that there were 494 recorded homicides in 2007, meaning that the city had so far logged fewer than 500 for the first time since reliable statistics became available 44 years ago. Last year, there were 596 homicides.

Continuing a 15-year trend, the murder rate in New York City has gone lower than many would have imagined. “It’s dramatic,” said Joseph A. Pollini, a professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “It’s phenomenal. It’s sort of unheard of.”

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:25 PM

As of only mid-2007, crime was down in every single command center in NYC, EXCEPT for Brooklyn North, where it was up 34%!!!

"A crime wave grows in Brooklyn, where murder is up 34 percent in the north half of the borough and muggings and bank robberies plague its highest-income area.

The NYPD's Brooklyn North borough command was the only one of eight commands in the city that registered an increase in homicide this year through June 10. And the spike follows a similar rise in 2006, leading to a stunning 64 percent increase in two years among the 10 police precincts that Brooklyn North covers. "

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06172007/news/regionalnews/surge_in_slayings_shocks_brooklyn_regionalnews_brad_hamilton.htm

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:28 PM

Oh jeez.

Okay mr. psychologist at 3:20. I'll just leave this discussion and this site then, and do something more productive with my life. This site has actually managed to become worse this week, if that were possible. To such a degree the only conspiracy I see myself is that there may be employees or friends of the blog trying to stir up passions. Because there was always fighting here, but not always these reactions to things that simply aren't THERE in people's posts. And this is the 2nd time this week I saw this kind of thing happen. It's just too weird for me. Sometimes cattiness can be fun, sure, but usually people are actually discussing something and responding to what's being said. Not hallucinations.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:30 PM

Er, except none of these houses are in Brooklyn North, 3:28.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:31 PM

3:25--sure, that's NYC as a whole, but Bushwick and Bed-Stuy murders were UP by almost 40%--the ONLY areas in NYC to have an increase in homicides. So the aggregate numbers don't matter when you're analyzing one specific area.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:31 PM

Bed-Stuy is Brooklyn North.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:33 PM

The Bed Stuy boosters are FEROCIOUS today!

Yes, your neighborhood was one of 4 that experiences a HIGHER MURDER RATE IN 2007 OVER 2006.

Do something about it please instead of turn a blind eye and say it didn't happen!

That's what the burbs are for.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:35 PM

I like living in Bed Stuy a lot. The people are nicer and it's more convenient to Manhattan than where I used to live (Greenpoint). People are sassy and fun with you, the street is really alive, weird stuff happens. It's more like a city than Park Slope, and either that city vibe feels good to you or it scares you. Whatever.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:37 PM

Glenwood Road isn't in Midwood, it's in the West Midwood section of Victorian Flatbush, for whatever that's worth. Glenwood is a lovely street, with planted medians like on Albermarle and East 17th. That block deadends on the Brighton line cut, so you'll hear train noise, but there's no traffic and, because of the medians, no curbside parking allowed, so kids can and do play in the street.

Four bedrooms sounds small for that neighborhood - most houses have five to seven. Either these are huge bedrooms, or there's only a partial third floor.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:38 PM

Crime statistics are really hard to make meaningful.

Another way to look at crime in NYC in 2007:

Crimes against strangers fell so low in every single borough in 2007 that the chances of being a crime victim if you are not in a bad relationship, know a bad person, or are a drug dealer, are negligible.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:39 PM

"It's more like a city than Park Slope, and either that city vibe feels good to you or it scares you. Whatever."

I don't personally associate living in a predominently black (as a white person) and poverty-stricken neighborhood with more of a city vibe.

That is a very 1970's vision of a city.

I base my impressions of city living on some of the great ones in the world like London, Paris, Barcelona, Buenos Aires, and Sydney.

None of which feel at all to me like Bed Stuy.

But parts of them certainly do feel like Park Slope to me. I'd say the influx of tourists to the neighborhood would say they feel the same.

But I guess you would say I'm wrong, and that all the tourists are actually at Tiny Cup.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:46 PM

I just brought my late grandaunts Queen Ann style 121 year old house on MacDonough Street in Stuyvesant hts(btwn throop and tompkins) last year and I love it there. My family has lived on that block for over 70 years and not one person in the family has ever been robbed or killed. I plan to live here until my children can take over...
I was a seven year resident of Park Slope and I loved the area when I first moved there but not it just feels like the UWS but I do miss the beautiful park...

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:50 PM

Montrose:

"You want to argue about pricing in the hood? Fine. We can. We can talk about crime or anything else, too, if it can be discussed in a rational manner..."

But talking about pricing, by definition, means talking about how much as given hood is worth, and that in turn means talking about differences between hoods. That, in turn, means talking about crime, quality of life, businesses, schools--all the things that offend people here, because they are in some way about "people."

The alternative is to perpetuate some PC fiction that every neighborhood in NYC is as good and safe and desirable as any other. If that is the case, then pricing is simple: all neighborhoods should be priced the same, and the more expensive one is, the more overpriced it is.

The problem is, we all know that's a load of crap.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 3:51 PM

I don't personally associate living in a predominently black (as a white person) and poverty-stricken neighborhood with more of a city vibe.

So are you saying that you associate poverty stricken with black people? Because where I live in Bed Stuy, poor little white me is surrounded by a lot of black people who make a lot more money than I do!

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:04 PM

I would buy Putnam if it was 675-650K

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:04 PM

who cares where you live

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:21 PM

Thanks 2:57;

But this house is not in Brownsville, East York or Bushwick. It is in the 79th precinct of Bed Stuy. A precinct that covers a geographic and population size equivalent to Fort Greene and Clinton Hill combined. The 79th had a decrease in its murder and rape rate but an increase in robbery and felony assault (like I said before there are issues). The other Bed Stuy precinct, the 81st had a dramatic rise in the murder rate after years of decline and numbers not that different than Fort Greene, but all other crime stats were way down.

Bed Stuy needs work it is not the OK Coral. Its residents and the city recognized that the focus needs to be in further reduction of all crime in order to maintain the momentum the neighborhood has seen in the past 10 years.

It's a nice house on a decent block for not too much money. Hopefully someone who can add to the community by just being a good neighbor buys it.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:22 PM

Whenever people talk about the social ills, crime rate, etc. in Bed-Stuy, I feel compelled to point out that BS is a geographically HUGE neighborhood. You could fit several other brownstone neighborhoods within its confines. This is why you hear BS residents clarify that they're in Stuyvesant Heights, South Stuy or the newly coined "Westbed". The "problem area" in the North part of the 'hood is just as far away from these other micro-neighborhoods as it is from Clinton Hill/Ft. Greene. If you explore the South part you will find (A) great train access for those along Fulton St., (B) gorgeous housing stock, (C) stable, family-oriented, owner-occupied blocks. Not every block is like this, but enough of them are. For heaven's sake, a Stuy Heights block even won the "Greenest Block in Brooklyn" contest.
But because the whole,vast neighborhood is called "Bed-Stuy," the safe, beautiful areas in the south get lumped together with the distant areas to the north in terms of public perception, media reports, etc. This is why these blocks have remained affordable.
I always think that newly-minted neighborhood names are a bit cheesy, but in this case I think the neighborhood might benefit from a bit of re-branding, just so people know what part of Bed-Stuy you're talking about. And as the oldtimers will tell you, originally this area was called "Bedford" and "Stuyvesant Heights," and the term "Bed-Stuy" was coined as a dismissive term back when the neighborhoods first fell on hard times.
Personally I'm not too concerned with the minor fluctuations of property values in BS because we intend to stay here for 10-20 years. As for safety, if the long-term residents and homeowners could keep their beautiful blocks together during the crack epidemic of the 80's, they can certainly handle a recession or two.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:35 PM

Is Bed-Stuy A Good Investment?
http://renovatingonthecheap.blogspot.com/2008/01/is-bed-stuy-good-investment.html

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:43 PM

4:35 I agree with you 200%

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 4:59 PM

true I moeved to southern part od Bedford Stuyvesant really Stuyvesant Heights and I love it here. I Think the Northern part will change but that will happen in time... The really only bad part about the Southern end of the area is Fulton Street. It needs to do a 180 like now... I think I have seen one little Charlie Brown tree between Nostrand and Kingston Ave. I hear the area just got rezoned so I hoping that change is going to come soon... I think that we should start like they do in the south giving people tickets for droping trash/food in streets... There are alot of things that need to happen in the are we need a DINER bad. I am not a woman but all the hair and nail places should really go... I love 99 cent stores but not five and every block. And please no more CHAIN STORES!

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 5:05 PM

"If Bed Stuy, et al, is not for you, fine. No one is making anyone live here. These communities work just fine for us, and we are more than happy here. What is wrong with that?"

Right on! I'm feeling you, neighbor!

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 5:51 PM

Actually, the double standard applies here as well. Tired and cliched comments like 4:13pm's are the norm on this blog, much more so than hating on Bed-Stuy, please.

I live in Manhattan, and I can't remember ever in my entire life hearing my neighbors or friends speak negatively about other Manhattan neighborhoods, or feel superior because they live in one area and not another. Not even on anonymous blogs is there this level of neighborhood bashing among residents of Manhattan. This is some real petty shit. And the sad part is that you're all probably over the age of 25.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:03 PM

I love Bedford Stuyvesant just feels like Brooklyn....

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:05 PM

I hear you 6:03 some of the people in the "better" areas like to look down on people....

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:07 PM

Park Slope and Bedford Stuyvesant had the same architects

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:10 PM

BS more tress please!!!!

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:10 PM

Seems to me, most of the people who live in the scrappier areas are the ones looking down on those that live in the nicer ones on this thread, 6:07.

The whole...Park Slope was nice in 1994 comment.

I happen to think Park Slope is nice in 2008. Better than nice, in fact.

Park Slope in 1994...5th Avenue was a bombed out hole of a street.

Today it is probably one of the nicest shopping areas in all of Brooklyn.

Some people like to be martyrs and pretend like they are only truly living the life if they are in a rough neighborhood surrounded by people who they have nothing in common with.

Nothing wrong with living in a beautiful community, surrounded by people who worked DAMN HARD to make it a nice, safe area for kids, for restaurants to thrive and terrific schools.

To the person who said she'll move on from Bed Stuy when it turns into Park Slope.

Well...he/she is a masochist. And quite frankly makes no sense to me.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:18 PM

Didn't feel like wading through the 88 comments, but did anyone notice that the taxes on the BS place are only $130 a month? I mean, right there is a reason to buy in a fringe neighborhood. NYC taxes are absurdly low, but this would save you $10-20K a year vs. a big condo or co-op...just something to consider.

Over 20 years, you'd have an extra 200-400K in cash.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:31 PM

6:22....So you don't think people who bought at the top of the market in a fringe area might try to convince other people that their neighborhood is better than it actually is to convince themselves they are just fine? I'm not suggesting MM does this, because I think he/she actually does love the neighborhood, but it certainly does happen.

When you are spending a million bucks for a home in a neighborhood, which in other cities would literally be called the ghetto....sure there is some skepticism.

I like Bed Stuy just fine. But there is no way in heck I'd pay the kinda prices people ask there. It's crazy talk.

When Ft. Greene and Park Slope were in similar states of starting the wave of gentrification that Bed Stuy is now, homes cost about 100-200K.

NOT A MILLION!

It makes for a very unstable and unhealthy neighborhood.

We will surely continue to see the ramifications of this upper class, lower class situation as it plays out in the impending recession in Bed Stuy as the folks who have lived there in poverty for generations come to grips that many of their new neighbors continue to prosper as they are left behind...

again.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:38 PM

Things are improving certainly, but it is pretty ridiculous to pay million dollar pricetags for a neighborhood described like this:

Bedford-Stuyvesant, more commonly known as Bed-Stuy, is a neighborhood in transition. Not long ago it was known as the largest ghetto in the US(1). Mary H. Monomi opened her 1973 book on Bed-Stuy asking: “Why would anyone want to live there?”(2) Today it would be interesting to ask the opposite question: “Why do so many people want to live there?” Although the neighborhood can no longer be reduced to that identity, the ghetto is still present in Bed-Stuy. Almost half of the households live with less than $25,000 a year(3). Crime continues to be well above the city average, abandoned buildings and vacant lots are still part of the landscape, and the motto of Bed-Stuy is still “do or die.” However, recent social, demographic transformations are changing the neighborhood's identity.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:46 PM

Indeed, a current trend in advanced industrial economies is the dismantling of the welfare state. Since 1990, the number of people qualifying for Public Assistance in Community District 3 has declined from 45,483 to 23,029.(57) It would thus appear, at first sight, that poverty decreased in Bed-Stuy. According to the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce report (58), the percentage of households earning less than $10,000 annually went from 35% in 1990 to 24% in 2000 (59). Converting to 2000 dollars, we can restate this statistic above this way: In 1990 18,986 households earned less than $13,175 (in 2000 dollars) and in 2000, 12,729 households earned less than $10,000. It would seem therefore that poverty in absolute numbers has not significantly decreased. What has decreased, however, is the number of people qualifying for welfare benefits. Indeed, from 54% in 1997, the rejection rate for welfare in New York City rose to 75% in 1998. (60)

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 6:49 PM

Cut it with the ghetto ref. to the Bed-Stuy house. You have not been to this area of Bed-Stuy, so you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

If you don't know a nabe, keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keyboard.

Montrose: A good assessment of the place in your post.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 7:15 PM

6:03:

As a former Brooklynite and current Manhattanite, I suggest you check the real-estate blog, Curbed, to find out what people in our borough are saying about neighborhoods other than their own. As can be expected, the bashing is directed mostly at black and brown neighborhoods such as Harlem, Washington Heights, and Inwood, but it also often takes aim at Midtown's Murray Hill, the mostly white area where many newly-minted college graduates live (with comments frequently tinged with sexism and anti-Semitism).

Both Brownstoner and Curbed have broken me from my shell. Until reading them, I had the general impression that New York had grown into a socially reasonable place, having improved since the days of my boyhood in Crown Heights during the 1950's. No more -- 'fo sure!

Nostalgic on Park Avenue

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 7:29 PM

I would take any house in Carroll Gardens to me it is the top 3 of nabes. I wish i could afford it. looks nice

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 7:32 PM

NOP--I've read Curbed all of maybe three times. I barely skimmed the comments because I found them immature, offensive, and lacking any kind of substance. I'm certain they are written by meat heads and/or frat boys in their 20s. It's crap.

However, I love this blog. I believe the neighborhood-bashing on this site, however, is very intense and thoroughly articulated. I think it is in a different league all-together. Maybe it's just because there are more actual buyers, sellers, and brokers posting comments on this site, and everyone has a vested interest in their position. I'm also sure that in person, though, most of these supposed prejudices disappear (or at least I hope so). I would hate to be judged on whether I frequent the Tiny Cup in Bed-Stuy or push a stroller down Montgomery Place.

BTW, I love reading your posts.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 8:03 PM

I am actually very interested in investing (and living) in BedStuy right now. I am going to wait until the summer as I think the prices still need to rectify, then look to pick something up. I think this year is absolutely a very good time to buy in both BS and CH. the prices are coming down and low offers accepted (even more then,I expect), while rates are still historically low. I think both BS and Crown Heights have the most interesting communities developing (like clinton hill, but it's now too pricey for me).
After 9/11 the S&P was in the 800's- look at it now. I genuinely think the beautiful houses in BS & CHeights will be great values in 5-10 years and are great areas.
how 'bout you WHATfuck? what's your thoughts on that? if you were looking for a house to really live in- and weren't afraid of non-white people- would you buy a house in the 600's in either community?

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 8:04 PM

8:03 and 8:36:

Let's hope so! But I remember the ugly graffiti in the subways and school houses in the '50's (not the "art" kind, but the racist kind that preceded it). It was anonymous, too, and symptomatic of what a large number of people were feeling at the time but not daring to say out loud (except in private). Sometimes, bashing on Curb and Brownstoner can be more unnerving than the old-fashioned kind because it's much more carefully written, revealing its authors' relative high levels of education. (And affluence. It takes more money to be "wired" than pick up a magic marker or pen knife!).

And thanks, 8:03, for the kind word.

NOP

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 9:16 PM

so 42 midwood may not even make back its 2006 purchase price?

it's only listed for 15k more than they paid for it over a year ago.

how does that sound like a good investment?

sounds like it was overpriced in 2006 and still overpriced in 2008 to me.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 9:17 PM

i'm guessing you are the broker or seller.

i'm not following your logic.

it might be a great house, but the price for the midwood house is high by a hundred grand or so.

at least.

Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 10:02 PM

If it's not Park Slope, it's CRAP!

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 9:13 AM

Glenwood house is right next to the Q train line - so it will definitely be NOISY.

Don't let realtors convince you that "oh you don't notice it after a while"

Also, I would bet you that the realtor has some classical music on in the house to help you not notice the train noise.

Don't fall for realtor sketchiness!!!

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 9:28 AM

Most houses in Bedford Stuyvesant are not 1 million.. You can find a nice brownstone in southern Bedford Stuyvesant for 600-800K and even cheaper on the northern end. Most of the mom and pop real estate co in the area have the best listings.

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 10:07 AM

The Glenwood Road house may be close to the Q train but that doesn't mean that it will be noisy. I rented an apartment in a house whose backyard was adjacent to the the Q. Granted it was on a block where the train was not at street level but you could not hear or feel the local train as it passed. You could faintly hear the B express which traveled the middle track at a higher speed. The owner of the home had soundproof windows and insulation which I guess made the difference. This Glenwood house seems to be priced accordingly and although not my choice in decor or finishes, seems to be in move in condition. If it were not near the train it would list for more.

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 12:10 PM

I also saw 42 Midwood back in 2006. The house needs a lot of work but does have good potential. I would agree with Brooklynlove that $999,000 would probably be a decent price for it, although in the current market I'd try for less. I looked at a number of places in Lefferts Manor, though we ended up buying elsewhere. I agree with other comments that the prices in the area are too high for what the area offers and are likely to drop as the market softens in the next year (see the article in Sunday's Times Real Estate section). But if you could get it for low 900's you'd probably be safe in the long run.

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 1:55 PM

Montrose, nice to hear about Concord Church. My grandpa was born on Madison Street (they were the first owners of the house he lived in). He went to Boys High. His great, great (my great x3) grandfather (white guys, different neighborhood back then) was part of the Marcy Avenue Baptist Church that was on the corner of Putnam and Marcy (the buildng was later acquired by the Concord Baptist church) congregation. This link has a picture of the old building which was lost in a fire. Pretty cool history of the site etc. http://www.nycago.org/Organs/Bkln/html/ConcordBapt.html

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 3:51 PM

I saw the house on Sackett few month ago, the pictures are the wrong, this house is a dump and need total gut renovation. Nobody lives there. They puled it out of the market in order to prevent it from being "branded"

Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 11:29 PM

Sorry to come so late to the party, but I just loved the earlier comment about Myrtle Ave in Fort Greene and Fifth Ave in Park Slope being such nice streets, with cafes, etc. When I lived in Fort Greene, in the 1990's (and loved it!), no-one I knew ever went past Dekalb -- and certainly not all the way to Murder Ave! And Fifth Ave was scary then too -- I remember visiting a friend who rented a house on 1st St just off Fifth Ave. and was never so scared anywhere before (this is when I lived in Fort Greene).

Even today, I think there's more going on on Myrtle in Clinton Hill than in Fort Greene, for whatever reason...

Posted by: guest at January 13, 2008 2:46 PM

That's a pretty house Bob Marvin provided the link for.

It says "bedroom" for the room just beyond the living room, but I'd make that a family room/tv section and open up the back wall of the living room to make an open layout, letting sunlight enter all across the floor. In houses that have done that it's very nice and very functional.

Posted by: guest at January 13, 2008 4:52 PM

LOVED Montrose Morris's post. I moved to Bed Stuy almost a year ago, so I don't know from history.

But it is true that while the neighborhood I live in is *not* perfect, I have never met a tighter-knit group of neighbors, and I have never felt more connected to a place. I don't really give a damn what the market does. For all its rough edges, my corner of Bed Stuy is good right now.

I have a beautiful looking house on a street full of beautiful, thoughtful people. I may not have a great supermarket nearby, but I do have neighbors who will always go out of their way to tell me if I have left my car lights on or if I am in street cleaning arrears.

I may have drug dealers on my street, but I also have a strong, vigilant block association.

I may hear gunshots once a quarter, but I have never, ever felt unsafe in my neighborhood or in my house.

Posted by: guest at January 13, 2008 6:59 PM

The Glenwood house, seemingly in move-in condition may just be the deal of the day. Hard to find anything under 1 million in Victorian Flatbush that isn't a complete fixer-upper. Fillmore tends to underprice. I bought my house through them about five years ago, and it was a relative deal then, compare to what other brokers were asking for similar properties. Worth a look.

Posted by: guest at January 13, 2008 8:35 PM

To simply join the party and either bash or support the Bed-stuy neighborhood would be futile. To bother commenting on the veiled racist remarks would just be a waste of time. First, artists aren't the backbone of this neighborhood. There are some long standing decent families in this neighborhood. And Putnam, from Stuyvesant all the way to Nostrand and beyond is one of the more beautiful blocks outside of stuy-heights. I've lived here for close to 3 years now, and I love it. Of course it sounds like I'm biased, but we don't need anyone's permission to believe that our neighborhood is a great one.

In fact, its probably best that the nay sayers stay out of Bed-Stuy. Because you are the people that make for the sour neighbors that don't speak and make a place like this less desirable. I love when I walk my 7 blocks from the A/C train to Putnam and turn the corner and can say hello to everyone of my neighbors. The things that make living in a neighborhood a little more convenient will come. but the area is good the way it is now.

As far as the neighborhood not surviving a recession(which we're already in by the way), there couldn't be a more rediculous comment. Like an earlier poster said, we survived the crack epedemic.

So, if you don't like the 'hood, just keep moving... nothing to see here, just keep moving!!

Posted by: guest at January 13, 2008 11:46 PM