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January 9, 2008
House of the Day: 78 3rd Place
When did average-sized houses in Carroll Gardens start being worth over $3 million? Whenever it was, we didn't get the memo. Last month, it was 44 1st Place, a generally attractive but inconsistent four-story house asking $3,842,500. (One reader wrote us a particularly nasty email about our stance on that post.) Now it's 78 3rd Place, a 3,100-square-foot, three-story brick that, while 23-feet-wide and full of charm, doesn't feel like it's worth quite $3,495,000. Are we just out of touch with the Carroll Gardens market or sellers overreaching?
78 3rd Place [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
Totally and absolutely INSANE price. Brokers are more desperate than ever, and are promising owners astronomically fantastical prices to get the listing. It's 3-stories people!!! INSANITY.
Total insanity.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:31 PM
3 stories for $3.495 in Carrol Gardens has got to be the most laughable thing I've heard in a while--I think it's a hoax, actually. I don't believe it's a real listing.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:32 PM
Broker is crazy. I think in 6 mths time this will be reduced to 2.5m and in another 6 mths 2m etc...
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:32 PM
This house is overpriced by at least $1.3 million, seriously. This whole thing smells very fishy.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:34 PM
Oh. My. God. Never, after years of reading Brownstoner, have I felt the need to comment on how overpriced a property is... Until now.
Congratulations, 78 3rd Place!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:37 PM
Since when is Carrol Gardens the most expensive neighborhood in Brooklyn?????
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:38 PM
Oh brother. You all know WHAT's coming....
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:45 PM
3.5 million and a 550 dollar refigerator. wow seller and broker must have some big balls..
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:45 PM
i really don't see how it's that overpriced.
it's a terrific house on a gorgeous block.
they'll get over 3 for sure....
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:48 PM
^^^ please--you are so transparent.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:50 PM
I don't care what the brokers say about customers being greedy. For this kind of price the broker is at least half to blame.
They could refuse to take the listing, after all. Or explain more clearly to the owner that their effort to win the lottery will backfire as the house gets a rep for being on the market for way too long and new buyers skip noticing any price reductions in future because they've seen the listing over and over.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:50 PM
Why is it, when a house is absurdly overpriced, it Corcoran's.
The listing does state that there is FAR that could double the size of the house. So basically, they're selling air.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:51 PM
According to the floor plan it's built 23 x 25 with a 210 sq ft extension giving a total square footage of 2,355 which is $1,484 psf. Plus it looks like it hasn't seen any work in 50 years.
I seriously hope the Corcoran webmaster made a typo as $1,495,000 might be about right.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:52 PM
As a buyer who has been house hunting in many brownstone neighborhoods over the past 6 months, I am truly shocked by this listing. The price tag for this sized house in this neighborhood has absolutely no basis in reality. I can't imagine the owners are serious about selling this house. This seems like a bad joke.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:52 PM
Unbelievable.
If you live long enough, you see everything.
Fifteen years ago, Carroll Gardens was the armpit of Brooklyn, goombah-land.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:53 PM
It's been said already, but this is beyond typical-aggressive-broker-pricing. You would have to be a fool to pay that much for this place...even 8 months ago.
You know, I thought the whole idea behind using a broker was they are so knowledgeable about the areas where they sell houses... They certainly don't offer much other value-added for their 6% cut... People need to open their eyes and realize how truly irrelevant the "profession" of real estate brokering is in this day and age.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:53 PM
Price works - if it's 200 feet deep.
Posted by: Johnny at January 9, 2008 1:55 PM
Hoax--nothing more, nothing less. Not a real listing. Just a vehicle for brokers to get themselves known.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:55 PM
44 1st Place is obviously still on the market, and this one will be as well until they go well below $3m. Carroll Gardens just does not merit these kinds of prices.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:55 PM
I have a friend who works for a hedge fund and he and his wife are making an offer on this place. They saw it over the weekend and are expecting their first child soon.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:56 PM
I read somewhere that in slow markets, some brokers put out eye-popping and crazily-priced listings, knowing full well they will never sell ANYWHERE near the listing price, just to create the appearance that all is well with the market. They're phantom listings in a way. I've seen a few of these come on the market since the New Year.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:57 PM
1:56--you are so full of shit it's not even funny. Any hedge funder knows he can get much more house for that dough, in more "prestigious" nabes.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:58 PM
BTW...the "550 dollar refrigerator" is in the 1 bedroom rental unit.
The main kitchen has all stainless steel appliances.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:59 PM
1.56 - great I hope they're offering under $2m
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 1:59 PM
They are moving from a 2 bedroom on the Upper West Side, which they just recently sold for over 3 million.
They don't care about more house for the money. They fell in love with this house.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:00 PM
Don't know any hedge-funders that would settle for a 3-story house.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:01 PM
wow--broker/seller got on the case RIGHT away.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:02 PM
Price is fair. It comes with complementary asshats for the whole family.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:03 PM
1:59--you just gave yourself away.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:03 PM
People...wayyyyyy overpriced, YES; BUT, they are selling FAR not this house. This is a Developer special my friends.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:04 PM
1.59pm refrigerator comment--there is no mention of that on website or in the photos. Do you realize you just outed yourself as the broker or seller? Or are you going to tell me you're the "friend" of the hedge-funder?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:05 PM
No way is this house worth the asking price. Yes, 3rd place is a lovely block, but the house is only three stories. Either this is a mistake or someone is smoking something really heavy. Unless, of course, they find the fool who's willing to pay it, then that's another story altogether. As for 1:53 saying that "15 years ago Carroll Gardens was the armpit of Brooklyn...", please, you must be a newbie or you don't know what you're talking about. I grew up in CG, am 50+ years old, I still live in CG, and it was never an "armpit." It was always a nice, relatively safe, solid, middle- to working-class neighborhood with good amenities for its residents.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:06 PM
nope. it's quite obvious from the pictures.
there are shots of two different kitchens. one ha stainless, one has white.
the cabinets are different too.
all you have to do it look at it, instead of talk mindless drivel.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:07 PM
The whole UWS transplant argument is so old. Please. I live on the UWS and am cashing out soon, but I know the Brooklyn market well enough to not blow my money on an overpriced house.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:08 PM
Hedge funders, in my experience, are generally pretty smart with their personal finances. They would not overpay by $1 million for a house all the way out in friggin Carroll Gardens.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:09 PM
Yep, broker duo and seller came out to play... early. No way anyone would notice the kitchen issue and then specify that one is in the rental. No way...
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:11 PM
I live in the neighborhood, right around the corner. I have every reason to hope this house got that price, as it would mean my condo would double in value. But that price is insane.
I know half of the deal is the air rights, but even then, the numbers don't line up. At that purchase price, how could you afford to double the square footage, pay for all that work, and still plan to eek out a profit? Even if you were to expand it to live in yourself, the numbers still don't make any sense.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:11 PM
I would just like to take this moment and thank the regular Brownstoner posters who have helped make the word asshat part of my daily vocabulary. Everytime I see it here I giggle. Thanks for the laugh, 2:03!
Posted by: rjlovie at January 9, 2008 2:16 PM
Regarding FAR and developers: it's 2975 under FAR. Developers need to make a profit. There is no way they could make a good profit if they buy this house at the asking price.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:16 PM
2:09 - excuse me, I must take umbrage at "all the away out in friggin CG" - Cg is not "all the away out" anywhere - it is four stops from Manhattan and incredibly convenient to downtown brookyn and all other fun bklyn neighbs. Of course I agree the price is CRAZY.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:17 PM
2:09 Way out in Carroll Gardens? Carroll Gardens is not that far out. It's much closer than most Brooklyn neighborhoods discussed on the board. Way closer than Park Slope or Windsor Terrace or Prospect Heights. It's a fifteen minute walk to the Heights.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:19 PM
2:16--there is only one person you should be thanking for "asshat" and that is The What.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:21 PM
i don't much care for caroll gardens.
too sleepy and provincial.
with undertones of organized crime and racism.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:22 PM
While I agree the house might be a bit overpriced, my friend, who is a successful Colorado gold panner is fixin' to bring his wife and young son in for a look this week and is prepared to pay in, of course, solid gold. It'll get asking.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:22 PM
2:17 - no insult intended to Caroll Gardens. I live in Cobble Hill and love CG(don't particularly want to see it too polluted with hedge fund types).
My only point was that CG is not Brooklyn Heights and, four stops from Manhattan or not, it is a bit of a trek to get back across the river for the wife's hair appointments and shopping trips. Most hedge funders take cars anyway, and that's quite a drive from 3rd Place to Manhattan. No way someone is paying almost $3.5 mil to live there.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:25 PM
Thank you 2:25--exactly.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:25 PM
This is a single family (A4) classification. At least according to the Finance Dept. The Building Dept. does not have an image of the C of O on line. Anyone looked into this?
Does this have a rental? If it does, it's illegal unless the CO has been changed to a 2 Family or more.
Now here's the catch. There has been no COMPs for an A4 that has sold over $2 Million within 2 years and 1/2 a mile. So where will the buyer get comps for the mortgage company?
Even if a Buyer wants it, they still need the comps.
Anyone has different information?
Really people. I think you should look at actual comps first before deciding it's over priced. Now that I have.... YES! It's way over priced.
Investor Lou
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:26 PM
ONE BATHROOM in the owner's duplex???? The broker is insane. No way is this place worth $3.5
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:26 PM
who needs two bathrooms, 2:26? the "hedge funder" who buys it can use the toilet on his helicopter.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:29 PM
If this place gets at least $3m, I'm putting my place on the market!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:32 PM
2:32--this place will not get anywhere near $3 million, unless, of course, Carroll Gardens has officially become more expensive and desirable than Brooklyn Heights.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:34 PM
Investor Lou speaks wisely.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:35 PM
2:35 = Investor Lou's mother.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:37 PM
a house like this in brooklyn heights would be 5 million.
clearly you all are a little behind the times.
you all say everything is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:38 PM
oh and yes...i find carroll gardens FAR more desirable than brooklyn heights.
i'd say most people under 75 would say so also.
i find virtually any neighborhood in brooklyn more desirable than brooklyn heights. to assume that just because it's the most expensive does not make it more desireable to a larger section of the population.
it just makes it more expensive.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:41 PM
2:37 = my teenage cousin.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:43 PM
"to assume that just because it's the most expensive does not make it more desireable to a larger section of the population."
Actually, yes it does. The reason it is expensive is because demand is high. Simple economics.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:49 PM
3.5M... sike. I don't know of any Mrs. Hedge Funders that will let their husband pay this much for a house that far from 5th ave.
Posted by: SillyMadness at January 9, 2008 2:49 PM
2:43 = Investor Lou's trustafarian son.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:51 PM
Actually, there were/are many sales in Brooklyn Heights in the under-4 million range. Smaller homes (LIKE THIS ONE) closer to the BQE, but still highly desirable, go for under 4, and even in the low-3s. And moving on to another popular and expensive Brooklyn neighborhood, Park Slope--you can buy a hell of beautiful house in Park Slope for this money and less. So please, brokers and sellers, lay off this one. The price is so out-of-touch that it's almost comical.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:53 PM
Anyone have anything to say about the comps, or lack of comps, mentioned by the Lou dude? That is all a prospective buyer needs to know.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:54 PM
2:25 - actually, it's easier to get to manhattan from 3rd place than Cobble hill - you just zip through the battery tunnel and your in the financial district in literally less than 10 mins.
But again, I recognize this house if VERY VERY overpriced and the neighb definitely doesn't have the cache that I would imagine a hedge funder would look for. Although who knows, maybe he/she has good friends in the area and have grown t
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:55 PM
Don't be silly, SillyMadness--it's just a hop (over the Gowanus Canal), skip (past the industrial wasteland of 2nd and 3rd ave) and a jump (across 4th--sorry, I mean "the new Park" Avenue) to hit 5th.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:56 PM
I was totally talking to Alex Rodriguez, and he said he's tired of Trump Plaza and is putting his bid in today. At 500K over ask just to be safe! Then he is renting out the 1BR to Derek Jeter.
Go Carroll Gardens!!!!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 2:57 PM
As a buyer, I would expect to pay more in Carroll Gardens than I would for a comparable house in Park Slope for the simple reason that it's closer to Manhattan. While it's a personal preference, I'd much rather live in Carroll Gardens than Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:02 PM
We've been actively looking at houses for years (in the meantime, we bought a big apartment that's doubled in value), so we know the market very well, and this truly is ridiculous. Even Corcoran sold a **4-story** this summer on 2nd place that was asking only 1.5 million. Granted, that place needed some updating (maybe 250-300K) but it was much bigger, had tons of charm and was basically in the same location - and yet was asking less than half this price -- at a time when the market was at its hottest! So, I cannot fathom what this broker has in mind unless it is indeed a stunt. The photos make the place look mediocre at best.
Posted by: housesearcher at January 9, 2008 3:03 PM
"I would expect to pay more in Carroll Gardens than I would for a comparable house in Park Slope for the simple reason that it's closer to Manhattan."
Well the market does not reflect that. Hence, the price on this house is absurd. COMPS, COMPS, COMPS people.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:04 PM
A sucker is born every minute. For this money, I can afford any place anywhere outside of this former gumbaland pocket.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:05 PM
OK, I just remembered that the Corcoran house this summer was 3 stories plus an English basement - so not technically a 4-story -- but still way, way, way less money that this house. And the location, again, was basically identical. My point remains: the price of this house is absurd.
Posted by: housesearcher at January 9, 2008 3:07 PM
"I would expect to pay more in Carroll Gardens than I would for a comparable house in Park Slope for the simple reason that it's closer to Manhattan."
That has got to be the most idiotic comment ever. And could only have been typed by the broker or seller. What kind of uninterested person with basic knowledge of the Brooklyn housing market would possibly say that?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:09 PM
lol, 2:56 -- She can't do all that with a bugaboo!
Posted by: SillyMadness at January 9, 2008 3:09 PM
Housesearcher--that is a perfect comp--thanks.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:09 PM
definitely a stunt
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:10 PM
Really... these comments do not matter at all. Comps first then discuss.
So far, I have been seeing discussion first and hardly any comps!
Let's get this right. Comps first. Discussion later.
It will help drive this discussion accurately.
No?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:12 PM
Comps were already mentioned--the only ones that exist were almost 1/2 this price.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:13 PM
So... end of discussion. The price of this house is 1/2 as much as it's worth.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:18 PM
yes
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:19 PM
Enough about the house already, let's talk asshats.
Rjovie (2:16) - I take credit for spotting that creative term in one of the What's rants. That and "2008 is going to be a Fuck You Year!" are two of the funnier things he has said, the latter, alas, has sadly not caught on. Whereas everyone else flames the poor sod, I sometimes afford him (her? or just "what"?) the praise he deserves for his crude yet creative linguistic skills.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at January 9, 2008 3:21 PM
3:09 - Because I initially was looking in Park Slope for over a year and decided the prices were ridiculous for how far the commute to Manhattan was, plus there were a lot of undesirable qualities that I saw in Park Slope - but again it's a personal preference. Don't understand the hype of Park Slope. First house I saw in Carroll Gardens I bought because of location and neighborhood. Best decision I ever made. Even if the house eventually goes for $2.5m, CG will finally get recognition that it's a desirable neighborhood not gumbaland.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:23 PM
Two-thirds of the house sales in Brooklyn Heights in 2006 and 2007 were under $4 million. In fact, almost all of those were $3.5 million or under, including a few below $3.0 million. There were (and are) a lot of LISTINGS for houses at $4 million and up, but only the trophy houses are (were) actually getting those prices.
How do you like them comps?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:23 PM
3:09 - it is not idiotic, just ignorant. It wasn't until I got addicted to brownstoner and learned more about the brookly market that I found out that park slope was considered by most people on this site (and most people in general since the prices reflect it) as more desirable than Carroll Gardens. Before I learned more about the brooklyn market it was unfathomable to me that people would prefer park slope over cobble hill/carroll gardens (of course, I mean north carroll gardens, not houses on huntington by the BQE for example). You dont' understand - there are people who REALLY dislike park slope and feel it's land locked and too far away from manhattan.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:23 PM
Park Slope is just a super neighborhood. Dripping in charm, with all kinds of funky eateries and cutting edge boutiques. Plus the charm of tree-lined brownstone streets. All within a short subway ride of Manhattan. You know you've found home - when you've found Park Slope!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:26 PM
OK, so there are ignorant people in Manhattan who don't like Park Slope. What's new? They're not buying in that market - how does their thinking affect prices?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:26 PM
This discussion has deteriorated from the original discussion about that specific house being priced correctly.
OK... first of all. PS is what it is.... It has the PARK. Prospect Park. The 2nd Largest Park in NYC and the same designer.
Start this discussion in another thread or ppl will just not benefit from it because they don't know it's being discussed.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:30 PM
I can't for the life of me figure out why someone would prefer CG over PS.
Smith Street is a joke.
The F Train is a joke.
The people are a joke.
The "expensive" areas of Park Slope are in the North which use the 2/3/Q trains...a much quicker commute to Manhattan than via the F from CG.
And the retail on 5th and even 7th to a lesser extent is far superior to Smith, in my opinion.
OH and there a HUGE FREAKIN PARK...THE BEST IN NYC...IN PARK SLOPE!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:30 PM
3:26....That is exactly how I feel every time I go home!!!!
BTW, I just saw Susan Sarandon coming out of the Ozzie's on 7th and Lincoln.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:32 PM
Not only is there the park, but there is also the Botanic Garden which is actually much more beautiful than the park; the best famers' market in NYC other than Union Square; and the best food co-op in the world!
Posted by: Brooklynnative at January 9, 2008 3:32 PM
3:26 - it doesn't affect prices, I'm just saying that the comment the person made about expecting to pay more for Carroll Gardens is not "the most idiotic thing" anyone's ever said, it's a simple lack of knowledge combined with a personal preference.
and by the way - it is not ignorance that makes people not like park slope it's something called taste (as in, "everyone has different ..."). Park slopers are so defensive about the fact that there are people in the world who don't like the neighborhood - just like there are people who don't like the upper west or east side, or any other neighborhood. It's not a personal attack on you...
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:33 PM
To the person who said it takes much too long for someone to drive into manhattan in their car for a nail appointment. It is two minutes to the battery tunnel and 10 minutes or less to get into Manhattan.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:33 PM
And Park Slope recycles more waste than ANY NEIGHBORHOOD IN NYC!!!
I personally think that's impressive.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:34 PM
Oh my god - here we go. Why is it whenever these threads descend into park slope cheering session, there is always a celebrity sighting thrown in? I'm afraid to say that the more park slopers defend their neighborhood, the more they demonstrate that je ne said quoi that makes the neighborhood so insufferable to the rest of us.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:36 PM
You'd have to be spawned from Satan to not like Park Slope.
Or at least appreciate its beauty.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:37 PM
Park Slope sucks!!!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:40 PM
I am the person who wrote what Mr. B refers to as "a nasty note" and there was nothing nasty about my note. He made a judgement call on the 1rst place building being overpriced assuming the building was 4000 sq. ft... When Mr. B then learned that the building was well over 5000 sq. ft. bringing the price per sq. ft. down to $700 he did not change his view that the building was overpriced and I found that surprising.
This building, on the other hand is priced at well over $1000 per sq. ft., which does seem ridiculous
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:41 PM
In my opinion, it's not a matter of taste regarding PS versus CG. It's really a matter of Price. People tend to say, "I don't like it because it's not my taste" when it comes to an area that is beyond their wallet (or purse).
BUT, if the price was the same, they would have chosen PS over CG. So forget about taste. It's price. CG is less expensive and therefore ppl will say "I don't like PS, I like CG because it has blah blah blah." What they really mean is that they can't afford PS and therefore don't like it.
Nuthin wrong with dat.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:41 PM
Appreciating the beauty of a neighb is very different from wanting to live there. Clinton Hill is beautiful, but I don't want to live there.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:41 PM
The only reasons someone would go out of their way to say a nice neighborhood like Park Slope sucks are:
1. Jealousy
2. Jealousy
3. Jealousy
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:41 PM
People speak with their wallets.
And if you do a search on Corcoran for brownstones for sale in Park Slope, you'll see there are literally NONE for sale.
NONE.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:44 PM
Why does every posting inevitably end up about a fight about whose neighboorhood is best. You never hear that about Manhattan neighborhoods. Is it because we all suffer inferiority complexes about us not living in Manhattan. Why the need to always defend our choices. Why can't we all get along (in Brooklyn).
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:44 PM
3:33 - um, the Battery tunnel is great if you are going to Wall Street. Fine if you work down there, but otherwise getting to most of Manhattan from CG is still a moderate to very long (depending on traffic) trek. Commute times "to Manhattan" are always misleading. I work in Midtown and it take me a solid 30-40 minutes to get to work on the express train from Borough Hall. And I'm a middle income worker drone who accepts long commutes as his lot in life. My guess is that the people looking for $3.5 million dollar homes are not going to think that CG is convenient to Manhattan.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:44 PM
The fact that park slopers list their recycling record as a reason to live there is perfect example of why so many of us would never want to live there.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:45 PM
What is it about Carroll Gardens that makes all the Park Slope cheer leader hooligans come out. Are they that threatened by Carroll Gardens?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:45 PM
I think that's fine, 3:41.
It seems quite apparent that demand to live in Park Slope far outweighs the supply.
So it's actually better at this point to appreciate the neighborhood without wanting to live there.
I don't think Park Slope is hard up for residents.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:46 PM
It is perhaps the most convenient by car to manhattan than any other brownstone brooklyn neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:47 PM
With the gazillion condos that will be hitting the market in Park Slope they might be hard up for residents pretty soon.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:50 PM
I guess that would be true about Carroll Gardens as well.
"The only reasons someone would go out of their way to say a nice neighborhood like Park Slope sucks are:
1. Jealousy
2. Jealousy
3. Jealousy"
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:52 PM
What do you all think about this place? Pretty sweet & reasonably priced. I'm thinking of making an offer at ASK.
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/913331
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:55 PM
"With the gazillion condos that will be hitting the market in Park Slope they might be hard up for residents pretty soon."
which would those be?
if you mean the ones on 4th avenue...novo, crest and argyle...all are at least 60% sold.
other than that, not sure where they are building gazillions of condos in park slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:55 PM
I use to like Park Slope like 7 years ago but tdoay I am not feeling it so much.. I do think it is a beautiful area but it feels too much like a scaled down version of the UWS. I rather live in Great Neck LI before moving back to PS... I miss the edge of the area...
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:56 PM
My main beef with Carroll Gardens is the ugliness of most of the houses. Where did all of the cornices go? What happened to all of the exterior detail? Nearly every brownstone in CG has been picked clean of any ornamentation and reduced to a bland, brown box.
At least this one has a cornice. Perhaps that explains the crackpipe price?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:57 PM
I actually chose Carroll Gardens over Park Slope. I could afford either but I chose Carroll Gardens. Yes, the park is nice and the botanical gardens is nice and the green market is nice, but the fact is, I get to all these places about as often as I did when I lived in Center Slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:57 PM
Let me end this discussion here by making the final call. Once and for all (and this applies to all future and past occurances of this debate): Park Slope is the BEST neighborhood that they have come up with. It cannot be beat, mathmatically or otherwise. West Village? No! Chelsea? No! Nolita? No! Brooklyn Heights combined with Cobble Hill, Carol Gardens, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill ganged up together? Still, No! No Way. They cannot do better than Park Slope. That's why the movie stars come. That's why the writers come. That's why all the money people come. That's why all the cool people come. That's why all teh beautiful people come Life is better there. The air is better. Everything is better there. It's is simply the best there is. You can't do better.
Let this be the final word.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:58 PM
3:41 - arrghhh. this drives me crazy. I bought in CG and I looked in Park Slope (southern part) because I thought it would be cheaper. When I found out it wasn't, I hightailed it back to CG/CH because I like it so much better. WHY o WHY o WHO-O can you not accept this reality? Everyone else on this blog accepts that some people prefer other neighborhoods to theirs, but not the park slopers on this site. For them it's always jealousy. It's like you're all zombies.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:58 PM
Those condos are bought by investors who mostly bought back in 2006. It will interesting to see what happens when the investors try to unload them.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 3:59 PM
Once again a thread has about another neighborhood has turned into one about Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:01 PM
I have lived in prospect heights, park slope, cobble hill and williamsburg. it's true that PS and PH are further commutes no matter how you slice it. The F doesn't have to go all the way downtown, so if you are going to midtown, it's faster. it's very easy to switch to the A from the F if you do need to go to wallstreet. also, cabs come down clinton in the morning, so i used to just hop in one and it was just under 15 minutes to soho.
historically, i thought that CH should be more expensive than PS because it's closer and also a more totally pristine hood, and thought that parts of CG could be more than PS, but that they were comparable with CG having the edge of less commuting time and PS having the edge of the some very expensive brownstones. unlike CH, CG and PS both have crappy areas.
williamsburg, of course, is way closer to everything. it's always 12 minutes home from work over the bridge in a cab. at this stage in my life with a kid, decided that proximity to my job and the best that manhattan (and brooklyn) has to offer is most important - can get to midtown and uptown consistently quickly. with a car, on the BQE to anywhere in brooklyn or queens in under 20 minutes. overall, i want my daughter to have the option to attend the best schools in manhattan and go to all the musuems, shows, plays, events, whatever without it taking 50 minutes to an hour.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:04 PM
4:04. I thought this had already been settled. It's Park Slope, bro. Don't try and push your whatever cause it's already game over. It's PARK SLOPE. Cue the music and the dancing girls.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:08 PM
too bad williamsburg looks like bombed out beirut circa 1975.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:09 PM
I know about 10 people who are on their way out of Williamsburg because of all of the strollers invading the neighborhood.
I see no appeal other than the commute.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:12 PM
Thank you 4:04. a voice of balance and experience. But get read for the torrent of wburg-hating park slopers. Anyone who admits preferring williamsburg over other bkln neighbs is immediately attacked or simply dismissed as a loon.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:13 PM
Dancing girls with feathered asshats.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:13 PM
This thread hasn't yet enjoyed an appearance of 'fucktard'.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:15 PM
4:04 = 4:13
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:15 PM
4:04, many NY, even those of us w/ $3M, don't have and don't want a car. I know people leaving Williamsburg because the trains there suck. The same is said by many about the F so there goes Cobble Hill/Carroll Gardens. While all may be geographically closer to Manhattan they are further than North Park Slope where you can get the N and take it ONE STOP or Q for two stops.
I live in N. slope and am looking to leave because I hate the people here. I do have enough money to buy here, I just don't want to. It's not jealousy. But, those who think it's too far from Manhattan need to look on the subway map.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:21 PM
"I live in N. slope and am looking to leave because I hate the people here"
so you hate yourself?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:24 PM
Just a couple of comments:
Re "Where did all of the cornices go? What happened to all of the exterior detail? Nearly every brownstone in CG has been picked clean of any ornamentation and reduced to a bland, brown box."
From personal experience and memory: Anyone who had their facades done during the 1970s-80s most likely had exterior details stripped because the masons at the time didn't appreciate or know how to restore those details and took the easy way out and just removed them. That happened to my house in CG (by the previous owner), and I do hope to have the resources some day to really "restore" my facade to the way I remember it when growing up there. It is only in the past 10 years or so that more companies have started to pay attention to those details that make brownstones special and are willing to take the time and energy (and needless to say, the $$$$) to do it right.
As far as distance from CG to midtown, come on now....I work at Park & 52nd and live in CG...you can map it out and it's barely 7 miles to President St. How much closer do you need to live to midtown? I can be home in 30-45 minutes tops with a little luck and no subway delays (P.S. I avoid the F train like the plague during evening rush hour. Instead I take the Lex Ave line to Borough Hall and have a nice brisk walk the rest of the way.)
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:26 PM
For me it's not the subway stops, it's the long cab ride late at night and the feeling of being landlocked that are unappealing (i know, terrible grammar). However, i much prefer south slope around fifth ave to north slope near the park, so maybe it's just the "vibe" that puts me off and travel issues have nothing to do with it.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:30 PM
"too bad williamsburg looks like bombed out beirut circa 1975."
The aesthetic is more mid-80's Beirut--you know, after the bomb-sites were cleared and reconstruction had commenced.
Still, if you're wearing sunglasses at night, it's a beautiful place.
-happy Williamsburg resident
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:32 PM
going from manhattan to north slope via cab, one need only cross the manhattan bridge which becomes flatbush avenue and there you are. right on 5th, 6th, or 7th and done.
i take a cab regularly from soho to my north slope home.
$15 with tip.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:33 PM
Well I have commuted on the f to midtown for 8 years now and rarely have a problem. On the days when there are problems, of course it sucks, but the vast vast majority of time it runs fine. I moved to CG from williamsburg and after the L the F inspired a lot of passion on my part, let me tell you. First of all, it's much less crowded. 2nd of all, it takes you to almost every neighborhood in the city with only minor (across platform) transferring.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:36 PM
How is that L train these days? It was insanely packed at rush hour back in 2000 when I dated somebody in Williamsburg. Has the condo fest made it worse?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:39 PM
"How is that L train these days? It was insanely packed at rush hour back in 2000 when I dated somebody in Williamsburg."
One frequently has to let a train pass during rush hour, but the trains do run frequently, when they run at all (it's been a while since the weekend service interruptions, but it's a hard memory to shake).
Think how much worse it would be if all those "freelancers" and trustafarians had jobs to go to. Long may the trust funds live!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:41 PM
It's interesting to hear people talk negatively about Williamburg. I've known so many young people who moved there in 2001, 2002, 2003...all of who can't stand it anymore.
I suppose it is now attractive to a totally different set of people (mainly couples with kids). The hipster element is fading fast. It's quite evident just from a short walk down bedford. All the cool stuff is leaving the neighborhood, being replaced by much more mainstream services and restaurants. And by mainstream, I mean mediocre.
This is NYC though. Nothing stays the same forever.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:44 PM
I moved from Williamsburg to Park Slope a year ago and I've never looked back.
In fact, I've never even BEEN back.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:47 PM
Back to this house. Any bets the broker is scared to justify this price? I am laying 9/2 that they dont have the balls.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:48 PM
there is nothing more to say about this house.
i think that's why people have begun talking about other, more interesting things.
like park slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 4:51 PM
"The hipster element is fading fast."
Williamsburg wasn't that hip in 2001/2002, which is right around when New York magazine, NYT, etc. took notice of the place. The people who moved there at that time and are leaving now because of what's happening in the neighborhood, if they really exist, epitomize the caricature of self-loathing "hipsterdom" so beloved on this forum. Actual cool people who did not want to work for a living had moved south, east and north by this time.
It was all over, at least symbolically, when Planeat Thailand moved from their Bedford storefront to that thing they're in now, which I think was around 2000. Then my smack peddler neighbor/super got locked up, wrapping up last of the Bedford avenue overt drug corners on S3rd. No more haggling a $10 blowjob from the $20 junkie whore. No more trips to the corner store for rice and beans, crack, heroin and a soda.
I know it wasn't cheap anymore by 2000, because I switched apartments around that time and moved into a weird-ass 1.5 bedroom on the southside for $1500--after looking for months and realizing that I was being priced out of a shithole neighborhood my family couldn't believe I was living in. In any case, thanks for that trip down memory lane.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:07 PM
defending park slope on this blog at least makes some sense.
when williamsburg folk come on here and try to convince people how awesome their neighborhood is, we know the hood is in trouble.
there are how many brownstones in williamsburg, exactly?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:12 PM
Williamsburg residents are no different than any others when it comes to being self righteous and pretentious.
Remember when the Apple coming to Brooklyn rumor started, EVERYONE thought that it would come to The Edge in the Burg (everyone who lived in Williamsburg, that is).
Now it comes out that NO RETAIL has even signed onto The Edge yet and Apple is looking in Downtown, Park Slope and Cobble Hill.
I also know someone who had inside information about 6 months ago about a Trader Joes' coming to Williamsburg.
TJ's cancelled those plans.
And bye bye Galapagos. One of the few "cool" things I thought Williamsburg had going for it.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:15 PM
I think the broker already commented that the price is all about the FAR. 3rd place has buildings that are 6 and 7 stories high. This price is targeting a developer, who will expand the building.
Posted by: Left Hook at January 9, 2008 5:18 PM
The reason other neighborhoods (including Park Slope) come up at all in discussions of a property is because it is normal and natural to look at what that money buys you elsewhere. Certain areas are more expensive and others are cheaper. It's not competition. It's about comparables. And I've never seen houses in Carroll Gardens sell for the price that houses in Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope sell for. So, in discussing price, when a house is so arbitrarily overpriced, it is inevitable for these discussions to arise.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:18 PM
To all those people who say they bought in Carroll Gardens, you certainly did not buy at this price. So, your comments are irrelevant and have nothing to do with the price of this house.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:19 PM
Carroll Gardens is a nice neighborhood. Absolutely. However, this house is overpriced by a SHITLOAD. No doubt about it. That has nothing to do with the merits of the neighborhood. They pulled this price out of their asses. It's not real.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:21 PM
no developer could make a profit with this house at this price--no way.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:23 PM
condo anyone lol
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:27 PM
But why is it that Park Slope comes up in every thread about another neighborhood. Because people from Park Slope can't stand to see other neighborhoods talked about in a constructive manner.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:27 PM
dose this house come with a family also?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:28 PM
those of us who were defending CG on this thread were responding to someone who responded with scorn and derision to a person who innocently wrote that they would expect to pay more in CG than PS. No one EVER said this house was reasonabley priced. I absolutely agree that this price has been pulled out of an ass.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:29 PM
park slope people have to keep the property values up so they have to always talk positive about the area....
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:30 PM
5:27-Actually, Brooklyn Heights came up first--and the reason the Heights and Park Slope come up is because they are the most expensive neighborhoods in Brooklyn. As a result, prices get compared often. It's normal.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:31 PM
If were all about comparables then there would be plenty of other places in Carroll Gardens to compare this place to.
There are some places in Park Slope that are more expensive than Carroll Gardens and there are some places that are less expensive than Carroll Gardens.
To say that you have never seem places in Carroll Gardens sell for more than places in Park Slope is just wrong and another typical attempt to try to boost Park Slope on a thread that is not about Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:32 PM
i don't really think that's true, 5:30.
no talk on an anonymous blog is keeping up real estate prices anywhere.
don't be so naive.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:32 PM
"This price is targeting a developer"
This price is targeting an asshat-wearing fucktard.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:34 PM
5:32...
In general (which for most normal thinking people is how we judge things) Park Slope as a neighborhood is more expensive than Carroll Gardens as a neighborhood.
Anyone with half a brain knows that.
There may be the occasional home in Caroll Gardens that is more expensive, but by far and away, properties in Park Slope are priced higher.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:34 PM
THIS IS A GREAT CONDO CONVERSION PROJECT, RIGHT B'STONER?!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:35 PM
"a person who innocently wrote that they would expect to pay more in CG than PS"
Ok--I don't think it was innocent, as I believe it was the broker or seller, no matter what they respond.
The reason I don't think it was an innocent comment is because any person who pays even minimal attention to the basic state of the real estate market knows what the most expensive neighborhoods are. So for someone to say they EXPECT, meaning they WOULD, pay more in Carroll Gardens is absurd, when nowhere in the last few years of property sales is there any shred of evidence that Carroll Gardens is a more expensive neighborhood than Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, or Cobble Hill. It was not an innocent comment. AND it's not about the desirability or not of Carroll Gardens. It's about the market and what houses in different neighborhoods command. Comps! Comps! Comps!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:36 PM
There are areas and houses in Park Slope that are expensive and their are areas and buildings in Park Slope that are dumps.
Why is it that you never, or very rarely, hear people from Brooklyn Heights on this blog comparing everything to Brooklyn Heights.
Park Slope has such a serious personality disorder it is a wonder the neighborhood can get out of bed in the morning.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:37 PM
This listing is obviously bogus.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:37 PM
If anyone is interested, an older gentleman who owned 3 brownstones on Berkeley Place just recently passed on.
I know the family will be looking to sell.
They need a lot of work.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:38 PM
Funny thing is, if you look at the picture in Property Shark, this property looks like a dumpy, lopsided miniature brick house compared to the brownstones that flank it. Looks like maybe a $1.8-2 million house, TOPS, and only because it's 23 ft wide.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:39 PM
"Why is it that you never, or very rarely, hear people from Brooklyn Heights on this blog comparing everything to Brooklyn Heights."
Because had you paid attention to the demographic of people who read this blog, there are very few from Brooklyn Heights and very many from Park Slope.
That and most people who live in Brooklyn Heights are too busy working till around 11pm tonight to be reading Brownstoner.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:40 PM
Anyone with half a brain would never write "anybody with half a brain" because it is trite and makes you sound like twit, which is exactly what I would expect from a Sloper.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:40 PM
"There are areas and houses in Park Slope that are expensive and their are areas and buildings in Park Slope that are dumps."
Exactly--and whenever they come up as HOTD, they get ripped to shreds as well, despite being in Park Slope. That's the point. Park Slope dumps DON'T SELL at inflated prices just because they're in Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:42 PM
"Anyone with half a brain would never write "anybody with half a brain" because it is trite and makes you sound like twit, which is exactly what I would expect from a Sloper."
I live in Carroll Gardens.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:42 PM
5:38--definitely interested. Will they be listed with a broker or FSBO?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:43 PM
"That and most people who live in Brooklyn Heights are too busy working till around 11pm tonight to be reading Brownstoner."
Working on what exactly? It's an old and old money neighborhood. The people there have class and money, not jobs. They don't post on message boards because the internets haven't been invented yet in Brooklyn Heights.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:45 PM
RE: Berkeley Place
I don't have anymore info sadly. I am a neighbor, but the numbers are 193, 221 and 223 Berkeley. All three are between 7th and 8th.
They are not yet for sale, but there is the name of the wife and daughter on 193 if you'd like to do some investigating.
He passed on a few weeks ago now, so it might be a good chance for someone who's interested to make an offer before they officially go on sale. I have no idea when/if that might be...
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:46 PM
There are areas and houses in Brooklyn Heights that are expensive and there are areas and buildings in Brooklyn Heights that are dumps.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:46 PM
And that fact that there are so many people from Park Slope on this blog should be a big clue to any reader that you should not believe what you hear on this blog about Park Slope considering they out number every other neighborhood by a magnitude of 5. They swarm every thread like blood sucking mosquitoes buzzing about how wonderful Park Slope is.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:47 PM
well if so many people are on here from park slope, that would indicate to me that either there are more people in park slope interested in brownstones, more people passionate about their neighborhood, or just more people, period.
all of which bodes well for park slope in my book.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:49 PM
Maybe they don't scream on the internet like Slopers because they don't have to because everyone already knows BH is expensive.
But not Park Slope, no, they have to scream about how wonderful and expensive there neighborhood is as if they were trying to convince themselves along with everyone else.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:52 PM
I prefer smaller neighborhoods myself, but okay, if you think so.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:54 PM
thanks 5:46!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:55 PM
i live in new york city to experience things on a larger scale, 5:54.
if you like small neighborhoods, you might want to take a look at something outside of bizmark, north dakota.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:56 PM
5:47 - wonderful. 5:36 - it WAS innocent because the person was innocently commenting that they expected to pay more in Carroll Gardens because they like it more. I felt the same way when I first started looking (knowing very little about prices in park slope) so automatically started looking in south slope (because I can abide it, unlike north slope) but then I found MUCH to my surprise, that horrible fringe areas of the slope were AS expensive as prime CG, Cobble Hill and Boerum Hill, which was SHOCKING to me. Believe it or not, many people so prefer the CG area to PS that they are really surprised to find out how much cheaper it is than prime park slope. They don't follow the market, they just make an assumption based on their personal preferences.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:56 PM
If you wanna see something large scale you might take a gander at your inflated Park Slope ego.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:58 PM
Small, mediocre house in a nice neighborhood--NOT worth anywhere near $3.5 million. RIDICULOUS. This house wouldn't sell for that price in the Heights or in Park Slope--that's why people are bringing up those nabes. Sorry!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:58 PM
if more people preferred carroll gardens over park slope, as you say 5:56, the prices would reflect that.
they do not, however.
park slope is a more expensive neighborhoos than carroll gardens.
also much larger.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 5:59 PM
5:59 if you could read you would see that 5:56 didn't say that more people prefer Park Slope. He said that he preferred Carroll Gardens.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:03 PM
How could such a large neighborhood be so insecure?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:05 PM
It's not just my Park Slope ego that's inflated. This internecine Brooklyn flamewar is totally turning me on. Anybody wanna meet at Hotel le Blue?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:07 PM
I just saw Brad Pitt walking down 5th avenue wearing an "I Love Park Slope" T-shirt.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:07 PM
Caroll Gardens may be NICE, but it's NOT $3.5 million nice--are you serious?? That is the issue here. That is what people are debating.
This tiny and non-descript house is asking $200K MORE than the perfectly renovated house at 270 Berkeley in the Slope that just sold and was 5 stories and 5000 sq. ft.
It is also asking $500K MORE than 30 South Portland, another 5-story 5000+ sq ft beauty on a gorgeous block in a great neighborhood.
There is no way to justify the price on this Carroll Gardens house. Unless, of course, you are telling me that there is a major typo and the house is indeed in Brooklyn Heights.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:07 PM
5:56, they didn't just say they preferred CG/CH to PS. They also said they liked it more and others should like it more because it is closer to Manhattan. That is nonsense as the comments about N and Q trains make clear.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:07 PM
TRUST ME, no matter how much someone says they prefer Carroll Gardens, NO ONE PREFERS IT SO MUCH AS TO PAY $3.5 million for a 3-story brick house. Not the most ardent Carroll Gardens lover. No one. That's the crux here. It's not about which neighborhoods you prefer--it's about what you'll pay to live in them, and for what kind of house.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:10 PM
Actually, some of us who live in Broken Heights, as I call, do know what the internet is and can actually find Brownstoner. I can even do it from work which is where I am taking a break reading this unbelievably long thread (I should be doing something more productive). Hard as it may be to believe, most residents are not old money and almost everyone in BH does work for a living. Pretty much in jobs where working 12+ hours a day is the norm. Finally, if you know of a dump in the Heights, point it out. The last one I know of on Joralemon got bought in a heartbeat at a price I think was over $3mm by a developer who is now trying to sell an over priced property.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:12 PM
Ok--so Greenpoint is closer to Manhattan than Windsor Terrace or Park Slope. Do prices reflect that? Just because it's closer to Manhattan? Red Hook is closer to Manhattan than Park Slope? Do prices reflect that? Actual proximity to Manhattan is obviously not ALL that determines property values, which is why I would never pay more for the SAME house in Carroll Gardens than in Park Slope. And for the record, I live in Manhattan, not in Brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:13 PM
It is not nonsense, it is true. Carroll Gardens is just so much better than Park Slope, not just because it is closer to manhattan and takes less than 10 minutes to get there by car or subway but just because Carroll Gardens is better and everyone knows it, even you.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:13 PM
No matter how enamored you are of Carroll Gardens, anyone paying anywhere close to asking price on this house is making a really stupid investment.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:16 PM
no one is debating that the price of this house is rediculous. that was established a long time ago. get with the program. we are talking about Park Slope as we always do and its amazing largeness.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:16 PM
6:07 But they said they "expected" this, and all I am saying is that it is not such a crazy expectation since I had the same ill-informed expectation when I first started looking. That person just didn't realize - like I didn't realize - how much more expensive park slope is (or in the case of fringe park slope - similarly priced).
People from park slope just assume that everyone knows that park slope is more expensive than any other south brooklyn neighborhood and I am trying to make a point that many people are surprised to find out how expensive park slope because they can't abide it and assume many people feel the same.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:16 PM
Wow--this thread is almost as long as that Goldman-Brooklyn Hts thread!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:17 PM
Bensonhurst is better than all your pansy nabes!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:17 PM
I would pay more for the same house in carroll gardens than for the ridiculous prices they are charging in south slope.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:18 PM
No one ever said the price of this house is reasonable - it's crazy. However, if I was given the choice of two houses, exactly the same and same price, the only difference being the neighb, CG or PS, I would choose CG. And I actually think there are quite a few people out there who feel the same.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:20 PM
this thread is three or four people waisting time. that is what this all adds up to.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:21 PM
Do you realize that basically we are all insane? All I can say is...only in new york.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:22 PM
"the ridiculous prices they are charging in south slope"
Agreed. Much of the South Slope is hideous. It looks a lot like Williamsburg, which might explain the hipster influx happening there.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:23 PM
park slope is dope park slope is dope park slope is dope park slope is dope park slope is dope park slope is dope park slope is dope park slope is dopepark slope is dope park slope is dope
dope
dope
slope is dope
park da dope
slope
dope slope
park slope is dope
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:24 PM
The interesting thing about this mammoth thread is that every single post is intelligent, witty and does not repeat in any way what another post has already said.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:24 PM
$3.5 million to live on a street called "3rd PLACE"?? Hell no!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:26 PM
But I've never seen a $3.5 million pricetag in the South Slope, and in the prime Slope it's only been reserved for a few special properties, and not even they get it all the time. Which is why this listing is totally bullshit. Must be some sort of broker cartel thing starting, since they have so much down time now.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:27 PM
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for the pricing conversation between brokers and seller for this house...
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:29 PM
Usually, all our clicks make the featured property the "most viewed" on Corcoran's website. This one didn't make it. Must be because we were all too blinded by the price to click on it.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:34 PM
Is the toilet seat gold plated? This is bullshit inflated price. For this money, I'd buy in Manhattan.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:38 PM
I have lived in every neighborhood in Brooklyn and I can say without equivocation that Gravesend is the best.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:38 PM
"Usually, all our clicks make the featured property the "most viewed" on Corcoran's website. This one didn't make it."
Yes, but a place in Park Slope did.
Even without the majestic power of Brownstoner's HOTD to boost the click rate.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 6:42 PM
There are usually a couple of Brooklyn Heights dumps sold every year for around $2 million or less. Many of them have been "House of the Day" on brownstoner. Search the archives.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 7:07 PM
Just a total larky guess, but maybe the new game is to overprice by a third, then when something like this place drops below three, the broker can claim that yes, in fact, it's gotten the requisite haircut, blah blah blah --i.e., (some) buyers have just as much money as a year ago, but the psychology is different. As to what this should sell for, for nothing other than a throwaway larf, my wife and I stopped into an open house for one of the mansion-ettes on Willow. No traffic, nice, big place, best block in the Heights, and the broker was absolutely desperate to signal that the asking could drop, and stone-like, from the fours into into the threes. If someone buys this place without a 35% discount to the current and thoroughly insulting price, they are really, really weak.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 7:15 PM
7:15, I made an offer on one of those places you're talking about, with a 35% haircut to the ask, and the broker told ME that I was being insulting
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 7:57 PM
This listing is a stunt--they're going for shock & awe.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 8:02 PM
I'm not 7:15--but if it was the Willow street place priced in the high 2s, I can't imagine they'd accept an offer 35% less than that.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 8:05 PM
My mistake (7:15 here), it was the Garden Place listing, a house built in the....20's?
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 8:09 PM
Asshats and fucktards
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 8:20 PM
of course people posting here are love brownstones and PS, etc.. but there are people out there that are not on brownstoner who would rather be close to the city. it may not be everyone's priority but it is for at least some - it's a legitimate point of view.
obviously, this price is super silly.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 9:04 PM
wife of 7:15 here. if anyone cares....my husband refers to the $4.4 m house on Garden Place - want to say it is 19 Garden Place - the tudor - Brown Harris Stevens listing. it is amazing space, but needs to be renovated. it has been empty for awhile now. we went to open house early November & literally 4 people had signed the sheet & 2 of them listed "walk by" as what brought them there. the broker did some mumbling about foreign money keeping prices up at the high end, but quickly made it clear the price was very negotiable, even pointing out that they had already moved out so would be motivated sellers. have not heard brokers say the words "motivated sellers" in the last 6 years (we've been looking on and off that whole time).
to the friend of the hedge-funder - tell your friend to go to that place & offer $3.2, put in $600k to renovate, and live a whole hell of a lot better.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 9:34 PM
There haven't been any sales of 1, 2 or 3 family houses in Carroll Gardens above $3 million in the past 2 years. I didn't bother looking further back than that. In 2007, only three sales above $2 million ($2,860,000, $2,515,000 and $2,350,000), and four sales above $2M in 2006 (none higher than $2.5M). And that's just looking at the sale prices, without even bothering to compare for size, location, condition, etc.
This property needs a MINIMUM 35% discount.
Tell me again, just exactly what do brokers do to earn their 6%? Took me about 10 minutes to find this info on nyc.gov.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 9:43 PM
The garden is tiny.
The bathroom has little appeal.
I do see the steel fridge (think fingerprints)
What's a likely rate for the rental? That couold help with the mortgage!
Too rich for me. Some friends bought on Carroll between Clinton and Court for $20,000. In the '70s.
I know a guy who is a hedge fund worker. He bought a house a block from me... in Crown Heights. I guess he's not the manager. Helluva nice guy though. Someday my house will sell for $3 million, if its still standing in thirty years.
I think asshat could be word of the year. I wonder if The What invented it or just made it famous.
Posted by: Hal at January 9, 2008 10:17 PM
I prefer asstards and hatfucks
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 10:37 PM
6:26 is the best and most salient post on this silly thread
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 10:39 PM
Let's take one of the most recent closed sales in Carroll Gardens as a perfect comp. 28 2nd Street closed 8/20/07 for $2.35 million, $50K below asking. Also a 3-story brick, but completely renovated (including mechanicals), large garden, better location, fancy media room, AND also had 2000+ unused FAR, comparable to this house. See Corcoran link:
http://tinyurl.com/2wmt59
From the outside, the house looks similar to this HOTD. So, right before the worst of the market jitters, a superior house in a better location in Carroll Gardens sold for more than $1 million less than this insane listing. This lends more credence to the theory that this listing is bogus.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 10:49 PM
^^oh, and it had central air too!
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 10:52 PM
10:49 do you mean 28 2nd St., or 2nd Place? 2nd Street is not as nice as the Place blocks and wouldn't 28 be between Hoyt and Bond? It's fine, but not as good a location as this house.
At any rate, I'm shocked that any 3-story in Carroll Gardens could get more than $2 million, so that comp surprises me regardless of the location. And the notion that the HOTD could ask 3.45 million is insane. We looked at a 26 foot-wide 4.5 story house in similar location for $3 million, and I'm not sure that ever sold at the price. So there's absolutely nothing about this house that makes it worth even close to $2 million. Anyone with $3.5 million can buy a far more beautiful, 4-story house in Carroll Gardens. If it's not on the market, they need only to knock on the door and ask the owner -- I guarantee you they will sell. Heck, I'll sell our beloved 4-story on a place block for 3 million to anyone who is willing to pay that. But I'm not holding my breath here.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 11:09 PM
House is worth it very much so.
Posted by: ronman at January 9, 2008 11:28 PM
Recent Place street comps:
125 2nd Place
House - 3 family, Carroll Gardens
3,072 ft²
$1,870,000
08/28/2007
132 2nd Place
House - 4 family, Carroll Gardens
4,000 ft²
$1,825,000
04/30/2007
128 2nd Place
House - 4 family, Carroll Gardens
3,333 ft²
$1,800,000
05/15/2007
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 11:31 PM
I much prefer 2nd Street & Smith to the Place streets. Much closer to subway and shopping.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 11:35 PM
The $2.86 million listing mentioned by a previous poster was in Cobble Hill (380 DeGraw) not Carroll Gardens. (And for what it's worth, it also was much larger and perfectly renovated.) Seems like the most expensive Carroll Gardens proper listing was the $2.35 2nd street listing mentioned above (as per nyc.gov and streeteasy recorded sales search). That's the top of the market. Can't imagine where this HOTD gets its price. Crazy.
Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 11:49 PM
I think Carroll Gardens is much nicer than park Slope and safer to
Posted by: ronman at January 10, 2008 12:02 AM
So, I like Park Slope. However, the commute was killing me. I used to live in Park Slope and take the F train at 7th & 9th. It took me an hour to get to midtown. I did not want to move to the suburbs but realized I could have a shorter commute from many areas of Westchester, New Jersey or Long Island.
I wanted to live to live in Brooklyn Heights since it is clearly the nicest neighborhood and accessible by every train. However, it was too expensive.
I ended up compromising on Carroll Garden. Instead of having 6 stops before even reaching Manhattan, I have only 2. Plus, my place has just as much Brownstone Brooklyn charm.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 1:29 AM
To all my fellow asshats here are the comps for this dump.
Address 78 3rd Pl Zip Code 11231
Owner Name Bartenope Theresa Tax Billing Zip 11231
County Use Code 1-Fmly City Resid Stories 2
Building Sq Ft 3,105 Effective Year Built 1899
357 Pacific St Brooklyn NY 11217 10/09/2007 $1,865,000 3,168 .852797 1-Fmly City Resid
2
241 Sackett St Brooklyn NY 11231 09/07/2007 $2,000,000 2,968 .352954 1-Fmly City
As per the Brooklyn MLS. I used 1 mile 6 months. I really use 6 months .5 mile but, no comps came up. If any fucktard wants to flame me, He/she can go fuck them self. Im a Broker (bityach)
You see what type of fucking crack these assholes are smoking!!!!! Look at the news, our Banking system is in some REAL MOTHER FUCKING TROUBLE!!!!!!!!!!!! Why even waste time with this shit. Investor Loser still go fuck your self!! The Finance Dept building tax code does not mean the house is that code. The house maybe a 2 family or a rooming house. You will have to go downtown to look for a C of O. Plus I would explain more shit to you but, you are a assraped dumb fuck.
Whew
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 1:43 AM
I think all of these people screaming about how charming their Park Slope real estate is need to be honest with us. Where in the evergrowing "Park Slope" do you live?
If you live in one of those incredible building on the park then you have a right to brag. Some of those places are incredible. However if you live on 14th st between 5th and 6th avenue then you likely live in boring outerborough buildings that look like half of Brooklyn and Queens(if yours is nice then you know the building next door is ugly). And if you plan on living in the Novo on 4th avenue, then you will live across the street from Pep Boys so do not brag about charm!
Everyone else in Park Slope asks the exact same questions that people in Carroll Gardens ask:
Why didn't I buy a building in Brooklyn 5 years earlier?
How the hell do my neighbors afford their apartment since they do not really seem to work?
Where am I going to fit everyone when I have my second kid?
So, get over yourself:-)
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 1:49 AM
Imagine Brownstoner gets paid for this shit! BOYCOTT.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 7:59 AM
If it has internet. what a steal!
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 8:35 AM
230 Degraw sold for $3.4 million dollars. Yes, I was shocked and it is across the street from Cobble Hill, but technically in Carroll Gardens. So there are buildings at 3 million plus in CG. But 230 Degraw is large and gorgeous inside (at least what you can see from the street looks that way!) so I agree that this place is way overpriced.
Posted by: Carol Gardens at January 10, 2008 9:41 AM
funny seven years ago I had the chance to buy a brownstone in FG on So. Portland for 800K but I thought it was too much...
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 10:21 AM
and you'll be saying the same exact thing about this place in another 5 years, 10:21.
and those listing comps above are not exactly comps. those are either 3 or 4 family.
isn't is this idiotic bronwstoner crowd that says it costs a million bucks to transform a multi-family to a single or double family???
so there you go. this one is a million bucks higher to reflect that.
they are just taking their price cues from you morons!
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 10:50 AM
"230 Degraw sold for $3.4 million dollars"
Was over 7000 sq ft.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 11:28 AM
"so there you go. this one is a million bucks higher to reflect that."
Ha, ha, ha. Please, don't be so insulting. This is a 3-story tiny house, already a two-family.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 11:29 AM
The best comp is the 2nd Street house mentioned. Only 3 blocks away, same FAR, same size, BUT perfectly renovated, central air, fancy upgrades, large garden. AND 1 million less, for move-in condition. Sorry, broker at 10:50 am. There is no precedent for the pricing of this mediocre HOTD.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 11:31 AM
"isn't is this idiotic bronwstoner crowd that says it costs a million bucks to transform a multi-family to a single or double family???"
No, some contractors do. No one would spend anywhere near that to transform a 3-story house, and this one IS a 2-family already, so anyone wanting to make it a 1-family has to sink dough in from the get-go. So there is no way for you to justify the price. Also, not everyone is converting houses to 1-family, are you serious??? For many, a 2-3 family is a major bonus.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 11:35 AM
10.50am--two of the 2nd Place comps mentioned WERE in fact 2-family houses that just had a legal C of O of more (which is very common). I saw them during my house hunt. They were 2-family, just like this one. So they are perfect comparables, but not in price obviously.
This poor house is so overpriced that it will not be taken seriously, and will become one of those white elephants that languish until eventually taken off the market. What is more shocking is that usually you see a flipper try to get such a high price, not someone who's owned it since the 1980s. Must be some convincing brokers. And their pitch most likely centered around a potential developer coming in and making millions, which is virtually impossible at this asking price.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 11:48 AM
Comps or no comps the price of this house is RIDICULOUS. Good luck with that you greedy owners! Obviously you're not really looking to sell.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 12:06 PM
listing is fake
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 1:15 PM
Way overpriced and I repeat my previous post: Anyone who is considering this house (and clearly, the posts about someone really doing so are fake) should simply walk around the neighborhood and find a much larger home they love. Knock on the door and offer the owner $3.5 million and you have an excellent shot at getting the house. No need to buy this one.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 1:19 PM
"I used to live in Park Slope and take the F train at 7th & 9th. It took me an hour to get to midtown."
I find that odd. I get into midtown from the 15th Street stop in 40 minutes. And I get a seat while anybody getting on at Carroll St has to stand.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 2:21 PM
I agree with 2:21. I take the F at Carroll St, and my ride to Rock Center is 25-30 min tops. However, I do get a seat because I leave quite early in the morning.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 2:44 PM
No house hunter who is looking in Carroll Gardens will take this listing seriously.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 3:12 PM
Do residents of Manhattan argue over whether the Village is better than Soho....
What is wrong with some of you people???? Such a waste of time. I love the vibe in CG, small town feeling. Park Slope is great too. I could think of numerous positives for all Bklyn neighborhoods. Take this attitude elsewhere. It is not very becomingj; certaintly not cool and not reflective of someone who loves Brooklyn and the overall City.
Posted by: guest at January 10, 2008 7:24 PM
Has anyone noticed corcoran's new listing 40 2nd Place? We put in a bid on this place a little over 3 years ago, but were not quite willing to go for the ask of $1.7m. It went for the $1.7m - according to property shark november 22, 2004. They are now asking $2.8m. So two things:
1 - 40 2nd Place is a very lovely house & while only 15 feet wide, it is quite deep at 48 feet. I would MUCH rather have that over the $3.45 m place, even at this ridiculous price. it is already a one-family & is quite beautifully done & laid out.
2 - HOWEVER, just to look at this carefully -- this means they are asking for 65% more than what the house went for just over 3 years ago. And at the time, there was no huge bidding war for that place - there were two bidders - us and the ones who got it. it was not even a one round, sealed bidding situation -- so it was a stretch at that price. the question I ask is: have INCOMES gone up 65% in 3 years? Has that neighborhood become that much (or ANY) better than it was back then? And back then, all you had to do was tell somebody a guesstimate of your income & you got a mortgage. Obviously not the case now - since mortgages now have to be real (and actually related to actual income), prices are going to have to be real (and actually related to actual income). I am going to enjoy watching both of these houses sit.
Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 11:40 AM
Has anyone noticed corcoran's new listing 40 2nd Place? We put in a bid on this place a little over 3 years ago, but were not quite willing to go for the ask of $1.7m. It went for the $1.7m - according to property shark november 22, 2004. They are now asking $2.8m. So two things:
1 - 40 2nd Place is a very lovely house & while only 15 feet wide, it is quite deep at 48 feet. I would MUCH rather have that over the $3.45 m place, even at this ridiculous price. it is already a one-family & is quite beautifully done & laid out.
2 - HOWEVER, just to look at this carefully -- this means they are asking for 65% more than what the house went for just over 3 years ago. And at the time, there was no huge bidding war for that place - there were two bidders - us and the ones who got it. it was not even a one round, sealed bidding situation -- so it was a stretch at that price. the question I ask is: have INCOMES gone up 65% in 3 years? Has that neighborhood become that much (or ANY) better than it was back then? And back then, all you had to do was tell somebody a guesstimate of your income & you got a mortgage. Obviously not the case now - since mortgages now have to be real (and actually related to actual income), prices are going to have to be real (and actually related to actual income). I am going to enjoy watching both of these houses sit.
Posted by: guest at January 11, 2008 11:40 AM
^^Yes, that 2nd Place house is also ridiculously overpriced. I agree that both houses will sit for a long time. I guess sellers don't really need to sell.
This HOTD is just ludicrous. Do you realize that for less than $200K more you can get a 5000 sq. ft. 21" wide 1-family limestone mansion on 1st Street & PPW (new Prudential listing)? There is no question which would be a better investment. I truly think brokers and sellers think buyers are plain stupid. There is no other explanation.
Posted by: guest at January 12, 2008 4:38 PM
78 Third Place has already been re-priced at $2.95M - 15% haircut in less than a week - ouch!
Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 1:51 PM
230 Degraw is a little over 4000 sq ft and sold for 3.4 million.
Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 3:42 PM
230 Degraw was WAY over 4000 sq ft, 25' wide, AND had more than 3000 unused FAR.
Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 7:43 PM
Where the hell is Carroll Gardens?
Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 8:34 PM
78 3rd place is re-priced a second time at $2.7mil, down another 250k and down 795K from the original ask back on jan 8th
Posted by: dandel at February 21, 2008 7:25 PM
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