Co-op of the Day: 10 8th Avenue

This has been on the market for quite some time. It is probably too expensive for a 2-bedroom despite the generous proportions of the livingroom. The kitchen has no real natural light and the bedrooms appear to be street-facing...

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:06 PM

how do you know it's the top floor unit?

the listing says it is the parlor floor....

which would mean it probably has the highest ceilings of the lot.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:07 PM

oh nevermind. i see.

the top floor unit already sold.

my bad.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:08 PM

one gorgeous apartment.

perfect location as well.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:13 PM

one cheesy opening line in the listing narrative.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:15 PM

This has been listed for quite some time. I actually went to the open house, and I can tell you this FAR from "one gorgeous apartment". It is very small for the price, has a freaky weirdo elevated platform near the kitchen that defies all architectural and aesthetic sense, and is in a very generic, unimpressive building.

Other than that, it's okay at best.

It will continue to be listed for a long long long long long time if the price stays close to where it is.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:16 PM

"very generic, unimpressive building."

you just lost most everyone. say what you will about the apartment (i happen to think it's stunning) but if those are the words you use to describe this building, i'm really not certain why you read this blog.

that building is simply beautiful.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:21 PM

"that building is simply beautiful"

Sure, looks nice on the outside. Run down on the inside. Once you're inside, it feels like your grandmother's building, with an equally dingy, dated, unwashed interior.

I don't think I lost "most everyone", particularly not anyone who has visited this building. Sorry to disappoint you (and your seller client).

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:26 PM

Wow, is $1000/sf the going rate now for a PS apt? And this one is not even in District 15 (where the best schools are). How are apartments holding up in this market?

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:27 PM

anything nice in the named streets between 6th and prospect park west is indeed going for 1000 psf from my experience.

btw, there are about to be at least one (perhaps 3) brownstones going for sale on berkeley between 7th and 8th. the owner just died.

not sure where or how they will be marketed and they need a TON of work, but there it is...

1:26...bitter corcoran agent who didn't get this listing. run down does not equate to not beautiful. if you know anything about brownstone brooklyn, most of them were run down and the revitalization of them is what this blog is about. if you can't see the beauty in a run down or dirty building, you belong sticking to selling (or not selling as the case may be) down at the novo.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:31 PM

I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that 1:26 is a bitter Corcoran broker who did not get the listing. All the realtors benefit from expensive sales since it inflates the comps. Look, I own a prewar apt in PS myself, so I have a vested interest in seeing the p/sf be high, but I am pretty amazed that 1000/sf is now the going rate in PS for an apt - I was told it was more like 900, if that, and of course there are many variables to consider i.e. outdoor space (which this apparently does not have), carrying charges, layout, school district (this one is not good), etc.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:38 PM

Eh, How is going to lend money on this co-op? The Mortgage and Maintenance is going north of 6500 a month. Lending guidelines are very different this year and I don't think this place will sell at the asking price.

The What

Someday this war is going to end...

BTW Oil prices have increased 57% in 2007!! Plus today oil hit the 100 dollar mark. This will put pressure on asset prices everywhere!

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:41 PM

1:31 - that's funny, I am not at all involved in the real estate biz. In fact, I generally dislike brokers, which judging from your comment you must be (why else would you take a jab at Corcoran, unless you were a competing broker).

I'm your target audience - a potential buyer. And I was singularly unimpressed by this open house. I left after 5 minutes. The platform in the kitchen coupled with the price made it at best a non-starter, at worst laughable.

1:27 - look on Streeteasy. $1,000 psf is definitely NOT the norm for PS. At the high end, you're looking at the $800s, and that's for high quality stuff. $1000+ psf, to the extent it exists, just sits sits sits sits on the market and is the delusional fantasy of incompetent brokers, such as 1:31.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:41 PM

i sold my place for $1100 psf.

around the corner from here.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:44 PM

$1,000 WAS the going rate for delusional brokers who saw a couple of comps going for $900-1,000 before the credit crunch. look at natefind.com in brooklyn today on the 6th ave place for an example. nice apt, but not $925k nice. especially when the clearing price seems to be closer to $700k in that part of the slope for that sized co-op. there were some condo conversions that sold for ~$1,000 around the corner from Carroll and 6th (condo of the day at one point on bstoner). they sold most likely to manhattanites who cashed in their 1br. there's still one unit they can't unload. they won't be able to now that you can't get a 10/10/80 or low/no doc and no co-op is getting anywhere near that price.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:45 PM

1:44 - please provide streeteasy link on your sale.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:46 PM

Look - would all of you brokers and/or PS co-op owners please stop pushing the obvious fiction that $1000/sq foot is the going rate for co-ops in prime Bronwstone Brooklyn?

Renovated townhouses and some special condos can get this, but not a run-of-the-mill co-op. Anyone buyer with some sense and internet access can figure that out by searching current listings.

I'm in the market for a two bedroom but not in any particular hurry to buy given the current market. I visited this particular place last month and it is NOT that special. That is why it's been for sale since October. The seller is stubbornly clinging to an inflated price, which indicates to me that either he does not really need to sell or his fellow co-op members are pressuring him to keep his ask high. Either way, the few buyers that are currently out there looking can get MUCH better value. This won't sell above $1 million.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:51 PM

I agree that $700/sqft is closer to where the market is right now in the prime slope. We're in the process of selling our prewar 3-bedroom in this area for just over $650/sqft--and the response we got was overhwhelming (4 offers at/over asking in less than a week). Which makes us think the market is closer to $700...but certainly NOT $1000. Please....

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:54 PM

I agree that $700/sqft is closer to where the market is right now in the prime slope. We're in the process of selling our prewar 3-bedroom in this area for just over $650/sqft--and the response we got was overhwhelming (4 offers at/over asking in less than a week). Which makes us think the market is closer to $700...but certainly NOT $1000. Please....

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:54 PM

1:44 - still waiting to see the streeteasy link for the property you sold at "$1100 psf".

Until we see that, I can reach no other conclusion than that you are f.o.s. (as you were in 1:26 and 1:31). Look, it can't be easy being a Brown Harris Stevens broker these days, but don't embarrass yourself, your firm and your profession by lying so blatantly.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 1:56 PM

this is bullshit...

i sold a totally re-done house this size with a gorgeous landscaped yard last year for just under $900K on a name street zoned for PS 321.

you can do better people....

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:08 PM

park slope prices are about to make like the wal-mart smiley face and start rollin' rollin' rollin' (back).

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:11 PM

2:08.

that's a lie.

unless by named street you mean 3rd avenue and sackett.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:13 PM

Looks like a sweet pad, but it's overpriced by about $250K.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:23 PM

2:08 here: sorry... i don't want to disturb the current owners by revealing the address. but, it was a 1000 sq. foot house on a name street just west of 5th avenue. it did have a basement for storage, which adds some sq. footage, but isn't liveable.

why would i lie? what's the motivation?

jeez...

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:24 PM

I saw the coop at 101 8th Avenue that you are referring to as a comp for $1000 per square foot which was listed for just under a million and was, I believe 1100 sq. feet. That place was very small but had some common area which I believe was included in their count. It was very unimpressive despite the photos and I was wondering if anybody knows if it sold and for how much? I can't imagine it got anywhere near the asking price but what do I know.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:28 PM

ok....so it was 1000 sf house between 4th and 5th.

this is about the same size or a little bigger than your house and right by the park.

tell me again what the comparison is?

you don't think location has anything to do with price?? for 350K more, i think a lot more people would be interested in 8th avenue than 4th avenue.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:29 PM

Hey, I think I saw 2.08's house! Totally nice -- bamboo plantings and a great outdoor dining area -- large bedroom with sliding door upstairs -- right? Wouldn't appeal to most of this crowd, given the frame-house-hating that goes on. But I liked it lots.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:31 PM

Building is 25 x 60 = 1500 sq. ft.
Offer Price is $1.25m
Price Per Sq Ft. = $833.33

WRONG
you can't multiply outside dimensions of the building to get square footage. At the very least you have to subtract the common stairway which usually is ~200 square feet. You generally also take a slice off for exterior walls, so that the final square footage figure still includes all the interior walls, closets and so on, and is a lot more than just the sum of the rooms.

So at 1.25m this is pretty damn close to $1000 per square foot especially including closing costs and mansion tax.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:40 PM

These ceilings are high. It's just those ultra-wide angle lens pictures BHS uses lately that make the ceilings look low. The image is distorted, squished down as it's spread out wider. It's really unflattering; I don't get why such an extreme lens is used.

The apartment is pretty, but it won't sell for $1.2 million as a 2BR. Doesn't matter how large the apartment is, a 2BR is a 2BR. One can get a cute 2BR brownstone coop on a prime Park Slope street that has yet to be renovated, for $400K less than this. Plus I'd find it annoying to be on 8th Avenue. I know it's supposed to be a more desirable avenue, but I myself don't go anywhere on 7th Ave, just 5th Ave. Which means you're 3 long avenue blocks from the best new amenities.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:42 PM

5th is awesome! i go there whenever possible.

but 7th still has great options...and some of the more necessary things. i prefer living closer to 7th/8th, nearer to the park and still 5 min walk to 5th.

some things on 7th worth visiting:

1. brand new renovated key food with self checkout.
2. back to the land
3. d'vine taste
4. moim
5. cousin john's bakery
6. la taqueria
7. chiles and chocolates
8. ozzie's coffee shop
9. ps. 321 flea market

those are just off the top of my head.

7th avenue still has a purpose, contrary to popular belief.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 2:57 PM

Yep, we like d'vine taste for specialty items. But that and Back to the Land are the only places I go on 7th. All the groceries, butchers and restaurants we prefer and regularly patronize are on 5th. Not bashing 7th. Just saying we use 5th most often.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:21 PM

ozzie's is swill. gorilla!

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:22 PM

Agreed, 3:22. Gorilla is number one. Don't know how Ozzies stays in business it's so bad.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:32 PM

i love ozzie's. only place i go for coffee.

it's always packed. the one on 7th anyway.

seems to be doing just fine.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:35 PM

Does anyone know what happened with the brownstone at 60 St. Marks Ave? I noticed it's no longer listed on the Brooklyn Properites website.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:38 PM

2:08 here again. 2:31 is correct! my old place... so, i am not lying....
also, i do think that these days 5th avenue is great. rather walk a couple of blocks to the park and have all the restaurant options. plus, when i lived there, quick walk down carroll to smith street (15 mins).
still say that this price is dumb. do a gentrified brooklyn search and you'll do better for that money.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:39 PM

3:39....suggesting that your place is in any way similar in location, style or really anything compared to this one is kinda absurd.

sounds like your place was great, but comparing that area to this one and this gorgeous building to yours is apples and oranges...

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 3:57 PM

it's like saying for a listing at the dakota on central park west....

that place sucks, it's too expensive, but i have a great one at 99th and amsterdam that's much better and half the price!!

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:03 PM

That second bedroom will be perfect for my midget friends on sleepover nights.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:08 PM

3:57
you are right, mine was way better! sorry, but 8th avenue compared to a side street? also, apt compared to a house?

full yard compared to ?

look, no one is taking this. duh!

i'm out. you all have a great time.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:13 PM

3:57/4:03 - which one are you, the seller or the seller's broker? You keep pumping this property.

I went to the open house. This apartment is nothing special. The building from the outside looks nice. Inside, it's flat out dingy and depressing.

Look, there have already been open houses on this property and it's still sitting, sitting, sitting. I went to one of those open houses and was totally unimpressed by the apartment.

Bottom line 3:57: this apartment is way overpriced. If you're so attached to the price, that's fine, just be prepared not to sell the apartment anytime soon.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:18 PM

2:57, you lost me with "Brand New Renovated Key Food" -- that key food is crap. Always was and continues to be. I go often because I live nearby and there are no other options, but it's terrible. Everytime I go in I marvel that there are no better options.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:29 PM

I also saw this listing at the first open house. I wasn't impressed. Strange layout and there was a terrible view from the living room. And the broker had told me that it is about 1750 square feet, which is not the case at all!

PS prices are closer to $700-$800 square foot. There is not way they are at $1k when Manhattan is at that level. It's still Brooklyn - longer commutes, lack of foreign buyers.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:31 PM

2 apartments in my building near here are currently in contract averaging out $940/sf. Our building has nice detail but needs a lot of work on the hallways and exterior.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:44 PM

There is not way they are at $1k when Manhattan is at that level.

ummm....15 central park west is selling for $6200 psf. many, MANY buildings in manhattan are selling for $3000 plus psf.

keep up with the times.

1000 psf is a deal for manhattan below 96th.

it will be for more of park slope sooner rather than later.

the neighborhood is getting some tremendous retail.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 4:50 PM

4:50 - read the papers much? $1000/sq ft. for Brooklyn co-ops might have seemed like a realistic near term prospect six months ago, but these days the chance of average co-op sale prices crossing that barrier in 2008 is pretty friggin low. Any apt that isn't already in contract isn't going to close anywhere near $100/sq ft until 2009 at the earliest.

Oh - and the current motivated buyer population (pretty much confined to Goldman employees and foreigners) won't trade down from Manhattan to Brooklyn just because a few new stroller-mom shops open up on 5th avenue.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 5:08 PM

the place at 101 8th sold for $999,000.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 5:14 PM

the vegetarian cafe in the west village 'snice is opening a second shop on 5th avenue and 3rd street. the sign is up.

so according to your logic, 5:08 since you don't think this place will be worth $1000 psf till early 2009, you think it would be better to wait till then and pay more for it?

you don't understand, do you. once the news starts picking up that real estate is back to a more normal appreciation level, it will be too late.

this place will be 1.4 million by that time if it's still on the market.

this area of brooklyn is prime real estate.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 5:18 PM

keep telling yourself that 5:18. i hear they are accepting applications at tgi fridays. no experience necessary...

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 5:35 PM

i'm confused....keep telling myself what, exactly, 5:35?

that prices will eventually rise again?

ok, don't mind if i do.

i like logic.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 5:57 PM

Geez, I thought all the Park Slope hating and bad stroller nazi publicity would make prices level off and go down...

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 6:10 PM

oh yeah, saying things like "by then it will be too late" is so logical. you're the one who doesn't understand. we're going into a recession and the RE market is sitting on artificially high prices pumped up by easy financing over the past 5+ years. salaries didn't increase 40% per year over that time. the fundamentals simply aren't there. it will take time before you realize that. by then it will be too late for you to get training so you can change careers. "more normal" appreciation will only come back once we revert to the mean and that will take many years. i won't explain the difference between nominal and real appreciation, but you should look it up. also, have you heard of opportunity cost? why do i want to overpay for a depreciating asset? it's not going to be "too late" anytime soon. so polish up that resume, dude. i see a future for you in fast food or maybe used cars.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 6:18 PM

Re: the going price per square foot - isn't this hard to calculate exactly, when there are other factors such as: sunlight, detail, storage, outdoor space, school district, monthly charges etc.? I think $700 is actually quite low for PS, though I agree $1000 per sf is silly (and by the way, the person who said this was for renovated townhouses had it all wrong - townhouses usually get a "bulk discount"). In any case, I have not seen this apt, just pointing out that it's silly to speak about it purely on the basis of $ psf without taking into consideration other factors. That said, this particular apt does seem very overpriced given the very high maintenance, bad school district, lack of outdoor space, and lack of a 3rd bedroom.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 7:16 PM

It's become increasingly easy to figure out who is a broker on this website.

They are the only ones with their head in the sand, talking about how great the market is, the economy, etc. "Prices can only go up."

Brokers are an insult to everybody else's intelligence.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 7:22 PM

6:18....i already own an apartment in park slope so i'm not worried about it.

the only thing i might get involved with regarding fast food is buying a mcd's or two for fun.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 7:50 PM

I wish the crack whores and their pimps would move to Park Slope.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 8:27 PM

"I wish the crack whores and their pimps would move to Park Slope."

They are welcome as long as the crack is organic fair trade, and the whores are free range and grass-fed.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:08 PM

Would everyone please stop calling brokers names already?

Brokers are people too.

Aren't they?

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:11 PM

No, They aren't. They are sharks with bad hair.

Posted by: guest at January 2, 2008 9:43 PM

Sharks? Isn't that a little generous?

How 'bout rats?
Pond scum?
Foot fungus?
Anal fissures?

Posted by: guest at January 3, 2008 7:59 AM