Brooklyn House of Detention Plans Falter

Boohoo. What about my investments across the street on Pacific? Damn.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:24 AM

That's kind of funny that they nixed the middle-school-in-the-jail idea, because the middle school that I went to felt like a jail.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:27 AM

The whole thing makes NO sense - they just spent 50M fixing the jail prior to its 2003(?) closing. Now they say they need the space closer to the courthouse to avoid transportation cost (fine - sounds logical)
but if thats all true then why isnt the jail opened NOW? How can we need to expand a jail that isnt even being used???? At least use the f'ing thing until you are ready for construction. All reads like your classic boondogle - Head of corrections probably secretly owns one of the contracters (ala Bernie Kerik)

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:27 AM

The fact that the Newspapers/media do not investigate the millions of dollars that were spent on this (closed) facility and the millions more being proposed to expand (an unused facility) demonstrates exactly what is wrong with the 4th Estate.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:54 AM

"I am sure it will come as a surprize to all, but I had the pleasure of spending the night here (some time ago)"

NOT A SURPRISE

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:55 AM

The jail was not finished being renovated 9I think pursuant to court order) until after its shuttering in 2003. The need for the space in part is being driven by the fact that much of Rikers will have to udnergo the same process, so there will be much fewer space there too.

(Also convenience to the courts is an issue as well for DOC operating costs).

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:55 AM

I agree why doesnt that HACK - Gersh Kuntzman actually do some reporting for a change instead of just using his paper as a propaganda sheet for every overblown claim of DDDB.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:57 AM

The incompentance of this process is incredible. What makes me the most angry is that the city has not evaluated the alternatives with regard to jail location, or at least has not shared its efforts with everyone. This is a great spot for a jail due almost solely to its proximity to the courts. It is a horrible spot for a ton of other reasons. The city could make a s**tload of money off of this site if they did other things with it. Probably enough to pay for a jail in some other place, that might be less convenient to the court, but is reasonably convenient for everyone involved and better for a million other reasons.

The community around this jail has made great strides and it continues to do so. To reopen the jail the city has poured so much money in is one thing, to hoist one on us TWICE the size is quite another, especially when it seems the city didn't evaluate all the alternatives. The logic that it should be there just because it used to be there just does not cut it in my opinion.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:58 AM

I want to know which bright light in the city had the idea to combine a school and a jail. And then, who thought, for even a nanosecond that the idea would fly? Both seem unbelievably stupid.

Although, perhaps a school/jail wouldn't be such a bad concept for some kids....

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 11:58 AM

11:55 - but based on that logic (which I also heard) most of the BHD is really only needed temporarily (until Rikers revamp is completed). Sorry but no matter how you slice it - this is a total clustf^ck

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:01 PM

"I agree why doesnt that HACK - Gersh Kuntzman actually do some reporting for a change instead of just using his paper as a propaganda sheet for every overblown claim of DDDB."

Not to mention playing Bon Vivant in Brooklyn, Iowa. What a schlemiel!

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:14 PM

How can you reason with someone that is intent on shooting themselves in the foot? Well in this case, that someone is Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:16 PM

Park Slope

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:16 PM

Sam, you mention extremely residential neighborhoods. There are other options on the opposite end of the scale.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:18 PM

make it a jail/ rehab clinic facility

throw in some offices for city agencies for good measure

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:25 PM

Turn that into affordable housing instead of a tax dollars detention house. Maybe the prisoners will stop committing crimes.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 12:30 PM

Please, please bring back the jail! If you put, say Martha Stewart in charge of its design, I think you'd get a lot more community support. I have to laugh every time I even think about it. House 1500 inmates on Atlantic Ave. in cobble hill? The genius of that is just unfathomable. Who said New York couldn't be made even more chaotic? Now, maybe they could put a coal mine in Park Slope, or an airport in Brooklyn Heights. What about a NASCAR track in Clinton Hill? Or an oil refinery in Bay Ridge? How about cutting down the trees in Prospect Park to grow corn for ethanol? And please, more jails everywhere!

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 2:26 PM

I can't believe they would do this either. Yes it is close to the courthouse, but, they should only house the people in this location that have court dates in the very near future, maybe 3 days to a week or something. NOT 1500!!!

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 2:55 PM

Over 2000 inmates are transported to court dates in Brooklyn within any given week. The Brooklyn House predates the recent real estate development in the community and anyone purchasing in the area should have known that having a working jail in their midst was a definite possibilty. This jail will reopen as is if no agreeable alternative for a mixed use building is found. Relocating the entire jail to another community is not an alternative because of this buildings proximity to the court buildings. The DOC budget for transporting prisoners between Rikers and the various borough courthouses is going through the roof in part due to escalating gas prices. In addition, the facilities on Rikers are in serious need of repair and the other problem is the issue of evacuation in the post-Katrina era. The island sits in the east river near Laguardia airport and is mostly landfill. Flooding and radon gas seepage is a serious problem. If a hurricane, plane crash or some other tragic event were to occur, it would be impossible to evacuate the 10,000 inmates and staff from the island via the three lane bridge adjacent to East Elmhurst. The Federal government mandated that a viable evacuation plan be developed and there is none. DOC is under numerous court mandates like producing inmates in court, to providing access to attorney's in a resonable amount of time. Many mandates are not met because Rikers is just too far out. When the inmates sue because the mandates aren't met, the city pays big. Reopen the jail as is, find another Brooklyn location that will hold an additional 800 inmates and call it a day. New Brooklyn Heights/Cobble Hill residents deal with it. The old residents did.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 3:28 PM

I don't see what the big deal is with having a jail share a block with condos, retail, offices, a hotel or a school. Entrances would be on opposite sides of the block -- that's an enormous distance in urban terms. I don't even know what all goes on in some of the buildings on the opposite side of my block.

I live in the area. I knew the jail was there when I bought in 2005 and I knew it might reopen. I don't particularly mind that it's there, though I do wish there was some additional activity on the block to help connect the parcel to the rest of the neighborhood. Every neighborhood has good stuff and bad stuff, old stuff and new stuff, and I'm fully prepared to accept that bad stuff in mine, though I do wish that people here and elsewhere wouldn't moan and groan and piss about every new proposal and project.

Maybe if people were more reasonable and open minded then DOC wouldn't be having such a hard time finding a partner willing to be creative and help make some neighborhood-friendly improvements to this block. Instead we're likely to end up with the status quo -- a big ugly jail surrounded by nothing.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 4:40 PM

Here's a not so creative idea: demolish and rebuild as a mixed-income development using tax-exempt bonds, reso A funds, housing trust funds. HPD would probably totally dig this, some MIRP or City Capital might be in order.
Also, tap into some AHC funds and transfer the land for a buck. Get the borough pres to show-up and kick in some cash. Don't forget those LIHTCs for the low-income units.

Throw in some big box retail on the ground level, the appraised rents in the area will probably rock- watch out for the 95/5 though!

Just for good show, have the developer partner up with a community non-profit that will manage the project and get your 420c... then spread the love. Have a ground-breaking full of smiling faces and community leaders. Maybe even the mayor will show.

Then build the jail on some cheap land in Queens.

PRESTO! Instant affordable housing project. Enjoy!

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 5:00 PM

HPD, MIRP, AHC, LIHTC's, 95/5, 420c? What the hell are you talking about? Whatever yousaid, it sounds like a bunch of garbage and won't happen anyway. Rikers Island is in Queens.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 5:20 PM

I think 5:00 was trying to be cute/synical. But he/she raises a good point. This land should probably be recycled for housing. A detention center on this property is not an efficient use of land. This property is located in prime growth area. The city might be better off disposing of it to a private developer or transfering it to a city agency to RFP as residential/retail. There are lower cost areas that can house the jail within the court mandated radius.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 6:04 PM

No. 1- Why demolish a recently refurbished jail?
No. 2- If my neighborhood is not "prime growth," I should then have a new jail built in my backyard?
No. 3- Isn't everywhere downtown Brooklyn within proximity to the courts, a prime growth area?

This jail has graced Atlantic Avenue since 1963 when Brooklyn's Raymond Street jail was closed and demolished. Raymond Street jail BTW was where Long Island College Hospital now stands. Still downtown Brooklyn. This area has always had a jail going back to the 1890's. The Brooklyn House should be landmarked!

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 6:48 PM

I stand corrected, the Raymond Street jail opened in 1838! So for all of the preservation-minded, all the more reason for a jail to remain downtown Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 7:17 PM

So the Raymond Street Jail was where LICH is now. How interseting. I wonder where Raymond Street was. I do not believe that there is any other locale where the jail could go where locals would not stage a full-court press to block it. But I do think that the Corrections Dept. could have knowcked this building down years ago and built a more efficient and humane new building, with retail along Atlantic Avenue so as not to be such an break in the streetscape. I agree that the plans for this site have been marked by extreme incompetence and wastefulness. Can a government agency ever get it right? The answer in our town is, sadly, no, not very often.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 7:46 PM

This mess was made during the Guiliani/Kerik era when the two thought that the city was their oyster. They did not consider putting residential or commercial space in the building because they didn't care what the residents thought. The Manhattan House of Detention which is on Centre Street between White and Walker - one block south of Canal, fits into the streetscape with commercial business, mostly restaurants, surrounding the base of the building and the jail on top. Most people pass and don't realize that it is actually a jail. Of course this building was planned and built under Koch/Dinkins. The Raymond Street jail was actually located on Willougby and Raymond Street. Raymond Street is now known as Ashland Place. Still downtown though. Their was a small jail/half way house where LICH now stands but I don't think it was in use for very long.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 9:32 PM

I worked for the city under guiliani, he was difficult to work for. very paranoid, very odd, just a nightmare. Looked at 100 sites finally chose the world trade center for his emergency command headquarters. I am sure that if there was an urban design mistake to be made he and his administration would make it. The botched jail on Atlantic Avenue is a good example. I am glad he seems to be facing total humiliation in the primary races. He is such a sissy he does not run in states where he thinks he does not have a good chance of winning. Unfotunately for him that is abour 48 states.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 10:55 PM

Unfortunate for Guiliani but fortunate for the country. I can not imagine that megalomaniac as President. Ghouliani or Crueliani, as many of us that worked for him so often called him, was and is an ass. His children don't even like him. Besides his horrible personality he takes credit for things that he actually had no hand in. Crime would have dropped naturally because of NYC's aging baby boomer population. The funding for additional cops was requested during the Dinkins era. On 9/11, it was his fault that the FDNY did not have the proper radio equipment to give them the signal that the towers were in danger of collapse. He chose to put his command center in a building that had already been the target of a terrorist attack. Over twenty people hand selected by him because of their loyalty not competence to work in his administration are either in prison, under federal investigation or served their time in prison for wrongdoing. He held all of his Commissioners responsible for what went on in their prospective agencies so their is no way that he did not know of the wrongdoing among his inner circle.

Bernie Kerik - NYPD/NYCD Commish. Guilty and now under investigation.

Anthony Serra- Guilty. NYCD Ass. Chief Served his time in the Feds.

Fitzgerald Patrick- Guilty. NYPD/NYCD Deputy Commish. Served his time in the Feds.

The list goes on.....

Posted by: guest at January 19, 2008 1:08 PM

For this result to be at all acceptable with the community, they would need to tear this eyesore down and start completely over and model it after the Manhattan house of detention. Instead, sounds like the city just wants to build an equally ineffecient eyesore on the back. The RFP the city issued seemed pretty unreasonably to me. No wonder they didn't get any good responses. Maybe they should change the RFP before they give up and screw the community.

Posted by: guest at January 20, 2008 11:39 AM

the best thing to do, with this jails is to put every one, that supports the idea,in it. and then lock all you mother fuckers inside, then burn down the motherfucker the real criminals is the city the Gov,n.y.p.d ect stop kidnappers. people don't put them selfs in your fucking so call jails. motherfuckers like you kidnappers, put the inocents and them and then you try to make them think, they are criminals. i get pay to said, what other are afraid to said. ya be original get off the dick you motherfucking,calling cops.

Posted by: guest at February 8, 2008 8:45 AM