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January 17, 2008

AY Appeal Denied, Construction Headaches Begin

Yesterday there was word that another legal challenge related to Atlantic Yards had been denied, and construction on the complex began to inconvenience Dean Street residents. The New York State Appellate Division denied a motion for an appeal for a case that was tossed in November related to the legality of the ESDC’s relocation plan for 13 renters (12 of them rent-stabilized) in the Atlantic Yards footprint. According to Atlantic Yards Report, however, attorney George Locker plans to file the same motion before the Court of Appeals. If the Court of Appeals decides to take the case, the lawsuit could stay alive for another year, said Locker. Meanwhile, there’s an article in the Daily News this morning about how construction on the mega-project is starting to hit home for people who live nearby: Hundreds of Dean Street residents woke up yesterday morning without water as contractors began to work on replacing an old water main. "This is just the beginning, and it's already starting up," said one person who lives on Dean Street. "Imagine when it's midway through the project. It's gonna get worse."
Yet Another Atlantic Yards Appeal Dismissed [NY Observer]
The "Other" AY Lawsuits Might Take a Year to Resolve [AY Report]
Pipe work at Atlantic Yards Shuts Water Off for Residents [NY Daily News]
Atlantic Yards Renter Relocation Lawsuit Tossed [Brownstoner]
Photo by threecee.

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Comments

Huh? Atlantic Yards opponents losing in court? I don't believe it!!!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:05 AM

$2 billion of our money to wreck our own neighborhoods. These poor folks will be dealing with this for 10 years.

On the plus side, thanks to our tax dollars building a stadium the value of the Nets just doubled. Good news for their owner, whoever that is.

Posted by: Johnny at January 17, 2008 9:10 AM

D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L.

This is good for the economy.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:19 AM

If by "economy" you mean "Bruce Ratner's Bank Account," 9:19--I couldn't agree more.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:24 AM

I moved away from Dean St. three years ago. BEST. DECISION. EVER.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:25 AM

Locker is full of s***. "If" the Court of Appeals decides to take the case... Ha! That's a good one.

This case is dead in the water. The losing streak continues.

D-O-N-E-D-E-A-L!!!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:29 AM

I'm guessing you live in Dyker Heights or somesuch, 9:29.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:31 AM

9:29 = Bruce Ratner's son, Hans.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:32 AM

Wrong again, 9:31 and 9:32. I am not Ratner's son (I only wish I had that much money) and I reside near the corner of St. Marks and Vanderbilt.

Any other assumptions? I know it's hard for you guys to believe, but some people actually support this project. Consider leaving your bubble once in a while.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:37 AM

AY will be worthless once AY is built.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:37 AM

Good, lets get this thing moving and quit wasting everyone's time and money with NIMBY lawsuits.

The folks on Dean Street are complaining because their old water main is getting replaced with a new one? Um, isn't that considered good when the city upgrades the infrastructure on your street? I wish Con Ed would upgrade the power lines under my street so the manhole covers didn't blow off every time it hit 95 degrees.

And yes, I live within 1 mile of AY.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:40 AM

This myth of Ratnerville being good for the economy is absurd. The correct question is whether it's $2 billion good for the economy -

Yes we get some jobs. Yes we get some new taxes. We also get -

Massive increases in traffic and pollution forever. Cost unknown but quality of life reduction for many will be huge and permanent. Deduct that.

We're forced to spend hundreds of millions on upgrades to .. . . everything from subways to water to sewers. In fact, Con-Ed is already using AY as part of their rationale to increase rates for all of us - forever. Deduct that from the supposed economic benefit.

6400 new apartments will depress the real estat emarket further. Doesn't matter to Ratner because taxpayers underwrote 50% of the development. He can lose 49% on the deal and still make money. The rest of us aren't so lucky.

There was nothing to stop this area being developed in a way that would have provided much more real benefit - to us and to Ratner's bloated wallet. Corruption, apathy and ignorance beat us.

Posted by: Johnny at January 17, 2008 9:43 AM

I was against AY until I started listening to some of the proponents, like 9:37, who actually live in what will be it's prodigious shadows. Since I don't, who am I to tell them that their life will be a stew of horrific traffic, disappearing sunlight, shitty minimum wage jobs, stoop pissing concert-goers and endless construction. It's their life, their nabe, their vision of heaven. I wish them only the best!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:46 AM

Please I have said it before, NYC is and always will be about change. And in most cases change weather you like it or not.

13 renters in the way of billions of tax revenue for the city, come on its basic.

All the doom and gloom about traffic, the traffic is bad now, and by the way has always been that way.

@9:43 "Massive increases in traffic and pollution forever. Cost unknown but quality of life reduction for many will be huge and permanent. Deduct that."

Of course in your world nothing changes, your view remains the same only with more traffic and pollition? In 5/10 years the cars driven and the gas we put in them will have nothing in common with the ones sold or driven today.

Yes AY will turn Flatbush in to 34th street, but it is time for Brooklyn to wake up.

If you don't like it move.

Posted by: Gross at January 17, 2008 10:00 AM

NIMBY AY Opponents on Tues - "AY must be stopped - the infrastructure can't support it"

Wed - notice filed that the water will be out for EIGHT HOURS on Saturday to replace old infrastructure

NIMBY AY Opponents on Thursday - "AY must be stopped - infrastructure upgrades are too burdensome."

Lesson (yet again) = NIMBY AY opponents will say or do anything to advance their NIMBY agenda.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:11 AM

wake up to being a hellhole? why don't YOU move to 34th street, Gross? the point is that development of the area isn't bad... THIS development, with all its short sighted greed, is bad.

I'm glad you have a vision of hydropowered hovercrafts eliminating all the traffic snarls, but forgive me if I don't share your pollyannish outlook. you like getting fleeced and fucked--good on ya! i happen to believe in standing up against corporate fucktards who count on lemmings like you to buy into their charlatan sack of shit.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:12 AM

Nana nana nana, nah - nana nana nana, nah - hey hey hey - goodbye

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:13 AM

10:00, ou're right about one thing. Flatbush will look like 34th street. And brownstone Brooklyn may eventually look like midtown Manhattan. But I choose not to leave. I love Brooklyn and see my home as being more than a development site for the likes of Ratner.

You can sit back and let us get robbed blind under the guise of "progress." Me, I'd rather at least try do something about it. Development in scale to the space could have been great - and profitable - for all concerned. But instead we got conned.

Posted by: Johnny at January 17, 2008 10:15 AM

I am tired of the people from other areas telling us neighbors of the project to be quiet. If you don't live adjacent to the project you shouldn't have an opinion nor repress ours. Wait for some piece of crap to land in your backyard and then we'll let you express your concerns.

In any case, there are good construction relationships and bad ones. And this water-losing event, after the falling parapet, inappropriately-noticed bridge closing, lack of public outreach and construction scheduling, represents a bad one. Some residents accept the project is coming and just don't want to be in the dark about construction issues. They should let us know in advance if we have to come in smelly to work the next day!

Posted by: Pheights at January 17, 2008 10:18 AM

9:46 provides an exellent example of how much AY opponents rely on fear. They are forever trying to garner support by painting a picture of armageddon. Fear of traffic, shadows, noise, crowds, bodily fluids. They remind me of some religious nut standing on the corner predicting the end of the world.

This strategy has accomplished nothing. The courts have decided against them in all cases and will continue to do so.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:25 AM

The courts are manned by people who have relationships with ratner, developers and politicians. Judges are not appointed based on their skill and experience- you can read the Times about that very issue today. They are political appointees or put up for election by virtue of their connections.

As for the idea that anti-AY people are chicken littles- seems to me that ratner and the pro-AYers long ago presented this project as the savior of Brooklyn. Talk about your religious nut jobs. No one thinks of stoop-pissing as armageddon, but rather than deal with the very real concerns of a project this size, pro-AYers simply brush them aside and will continue to do so until the real impact is felt and all the pro-AY hype is proved to be a lie. Enjoy your Roman circus...er...Nets games. Who knew it would be so cheap and easy to win you over?

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 17, 2008 10:39 AM

"If you don't live adjacent to the project you shouldn't have an opinion nor repress ours."

Please specify the boundaries that permit people to express their opinions. For example, does the right to have an opinion disappear for those residing on the PS side of Flatbush Avenue? If not, then what block cuts off opinion?

Also, since you don't live near Yankee Stadium or Hudson Yards, you can no longer have an opinion on those projects. Thanks for your cooperation.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:43 AM

""If you don't live adjacent to the project you shouldn't have an opinion nor repress ours."

Also, since you don't live near Yankee Stadium or Hudson Yards, you can no longer have an opinion on those projects. Thanks for your cooperation."

How about if the dust from the construction is not inside your living room then you need to watch what you say about this project. The difference between two blocks from the footprint and the footprint is night and day. We who live here are inside a construction zone. Its noisy, its dusty, our neighbors are gone. Not true on the PS side of Flatbush.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:51 AM

My Con Ed bill is already going up because of this project. Does that give me rights or not? Ditto $2 billion of taxpayer money. Does that count?

Posted by: Johnny at January 17, 2008 10:55 AM

So they noticed the work for a Saturday and then did it, without notice, on a Wednesday instead? At 8:30 am? Regardless of what you think of AY, that does indeed suck. Very, very bad form.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:13 AM

Listen, 10:55 and 11:13, take your opinions and file them under NIMBY. We will have no rational arguments here!!!!! So sayeth Ratner's bobbleheads!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:47 AM

10:51 - So I guess under your assessment then approximately 50 people can speak freely on AY's?

No 11:13 - the work is scheduled for Sat for 8 hours - no one (who works Mon-Fri) has to go to work smelly, no one is going to go thirsty - this "catastrophe" is just another example of Anti-AY hype.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:48 AM

The PS side of Flatbush is certainly going to feel it, in this construction. Nobody fool themselves about that. The wind will carry the dust and smells. The traffic will be backed up clogging all the PS main arteries AND little side streets both as cars attempt to divert to other streets. The fact that same traffic jam will happen in PS every time there is a game at the stadium, yeah, they do get to say something about it! Ridiculous.

I don't live in PS btw. I just think it's 'tarded to say only those directly across the street from AY will be affected by AY.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:48 AM

Bx2Bklyn - you are optimistic that once AY is completed the anti-AY folks will be recongnized by its supporters as being correct about the net negative of the project.

I (mostly pro-AY) intend to follow the playbook of many anti-AY folks and maintain my position no matter what the economic or factual realities.

So just like anti-AY folks continue to cite Metrotech as a horrible failure despite the enormous economic, psychological and physical sucess of the project. Even if AY results in overflowing sewers, 24hr gridlock, and overcrowded schools and trains; I intend to maintain that it is a complete success. (why not - clearly TRUTH is not something that most people seem to value)

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:49 AM

Have you ever walked around Metrotech at night? How is this a success?

Traffic is a mess, it's not any kind of urban center, it feels desolate (even though its not)... and on.

How is metrotech a success? These 'superblocks' don't work, and I think Metrotech supports that.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:59 AM

Not only is the comment about proximity being the exclusive litmus test for opinion ludicrous, it's ass backwards wrong. As a lifelong Brooklynite, I've been incensed by the seemingly endless stream of "Develop Don't Destroy" demagogues who moved here in the mid to late nineties and claimed some uber-etitled ownership of the area. The real litmus test for opinion is people who take a realistic and long view of the ability of that area to be an economic tool for the future of the borough. If you believe it can or believe it can't is the real argument, and it's a fair one. I personally believe in Atlantic Yards and have no guilt whatsoever about the more than fair buyouts most residents took from The Ratner Group. This bucolic view that some "Prospect Heights" and "Clinton Hill" residents have of the neighborhood is an invented ideal of a swath of land that for decades was a neglected embarrassment for Brooklynites. What should have been the commercial center of our borough was a literal hole without any sign of life. If you're that upset about the next 10 years, I suggest a move to Williamsburg where people also love to pretend they live in Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 12:10 PM

Metrotech was built as an Office Campus for Blue Chip companies. It is, was and continues to be nearly fully rented with high quality tenants and their white-collar professional employees. It was designed to prove the viability of Brooklyn as a 3rd business district in NYC as well as the outer borough's as a whole (at the time many people believed that the outer boros were essentially relics of a rust belt past)

Metrotech was not designed to be an "urban center" or to be a "night"-time destination and no surprise it isnt either of those things but make no mistake - Metrotech is a complete success and without it Brooklyn would be far worse off.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 12:12 PM

Well, 10:51, if we apply your suggested boundaries, then Norman Oder, Lumi Rolley (of nolandgrab), Letitia James, the bulk of DDDB's advisory board, and many neighborhood bloggers should just shut up. Thanks for the clarification, though. Plus, you're the first person who has provided a specific answer to this question. Usually, anti-AY crowd simply refuses to answer it.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 12:19 PM

"This bucolic view that some "Prospect Heights" and "Clinton Hill" residents have of the neighborhood is an invented ideal of a swath of land that for decades was a neglected embarrassment for Brooklynites. What should have been the commercial center of our borough was a literal hole without any sign of life. If you're that upset about the next 10 years, I suggest a move to Williamsburg where people also love to pretend they live in Brooklyn."

As a Brooklyn native and lifelong resident (I live in Crown Heights), I couldn't agree more. It's time for something to happen at that site, and AY sounds like a relatively good deal to me. Is it perfect? Probably not. Should there have been more public review? Yes. But I'm willing to take what comes. We've been waiting for something to happen there for GENERATIONS, much longer than Johnny-Come-Latelies like many of the Anti-AYers.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 12:42 PM

"Have you ever walked around Metrotech at night? How is this a success?"

I'm a Brooklyn native who attended LIU (which is nearby). If you had walked around that area BEFORE MetroTech was built, you could have scored some drugs or got yourself a hooker or gotten stuck up. Those things are far less likey to happen there now, and the site now has real restaurants, nice and clean open spaces and employment opportunities for hundreds. It's definitely a success in my book.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 12:46 PM

Someone I know working at the Trade Center site says they plan to permanently close one lane of the Tunnel to allow the concrete trucks access. It has something to do with mix time/strength of concrete and how long the trucks can wait before they must pour. My point being that when they start the AY project expect similar lane closures confusion and delays for all of Brooklyn, not just the people who live in the footprint. That said, Long live AY.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 12:51 PM

So I guess it's not politically correct to tell people who don't live nearby to shut up about AY but it is to assume that every anti-AYer is a "johnny come lately"? So now born in Brooklyn is the new litmus test? Hold on, I have to sit down and stop laughing. Well, you can believe that if it makes you feel better, but itdon't make it so."

11:49- Are you sure you are Pro-AY? Of course the big problem is that the major effects will be felt after the fact. And then it's too late. I'm also not surprised, but rather saddened by how pro-AYers are so rabid on having this monstrosity of urban bad planning go up and think it's all about improving Brooklyn. It hasn't occured to them that everyone will be paying for this project in terms of inconvenience, traffic,noise, polution and overcrowding, while they line ratner's pockets. Does anyone seriously think Ratner gives a Rat's ass about Brooklyn?

That said, Metrotech was a plus for the area- I lived over that way and it's the truth. But Metrotech is in a main city center, and is in scale to the area. It was a much more intelligent plan than AY, which as far as I can tell is simply an architectural testosterone trip for him and his friends.

Posted by: bx2bklynstill at January 17, 2008 1:12 PM

I like the idea of Brooklyn being approproriately developed and intergrated in an urban way. That's why Metrotech doesn't work for me: streets are closed and the back sides of the building's face the rest of Brooklyn.

The scheme for Atlantic Yards seems to make these same mistakes: insular, over-scaled office park like sensibilities. A fine piece of urban architecture could be profitably constructed on the site but NY has chosen to go with the company that developed that hideeous office tower over the Target and next door that banal shopping center where the City rents office space to keep it afloat.

Then the arena, at what could one of the liveliest public spaces in Brooklyn.... When there are no events the space will be dead and since people will only go to events the streetscape is likely to be erratic, corowded at times, dead and dirty at others.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 1:12 PM

12:42, you're the type of person that charlatans count on. "Just give me something, I don't care what it is. I'm too lazy to try for something better. Thanks for the crumbs, o great developer. I'll shut up now and watch my TV."

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 1:23 PM

"I like the idea of Brooklyn being approproriately developed and intergrated in an urban way. That's why Metrotech doesn't work for me: streets are closed and the back sides of the building's face the rest of Brooklyn."

This is one example of GOOD urban planning. Pedestrian malls reduce pollution and encourage people to interact. Would you prefer more open streets and vehicular traffic?

"Then the arena, at what could one of the liveliest public spaces in Brooklyn.... When there are no events the space will be dead and since people will only go to events the streetscape is likely to be erratic, corowded at times, dead and dirty at others."

The arena site in particular is "dead and dirty" and "erratic" NOW and has been for generations. I'd like to see the activity an arena will bring and I think your "doomsday" imagery is a bit ovberblown.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 1:29 PM

Bx2Bklyn - yes I am pro-AY and AY is appropriately scaled to the area - since the area contains the largest network of subways and trains in NYC

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 1:33 PM

Yawn. You're exaggerating. Get back to me when the project is finished, and we can categorize the impact.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 1:33 PM

"Yawn. You're exaggerating. Get back to me when the project is finished, and we can categorize the impact."

Okay, I'll check with you in twelve years. Cough.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 1:40 PM

I guess Dean Street a couple of blocks up in Crown Heights does'nt seem that bad now does it? Close enough to benefit and to walk to games, far enough to not be bothered by construction.It's a win win for us. Can't wait till it's done.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:01 PM

"Okay, I'll check with you in twelve years. Cough."

See you then. I'll still be a Crown Heights homeowner and resident, and you probably be in some other city, predicting more dire scenarios. Don't forget your sandwich board.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:01 PM

Ah, Crown Heights. Shoulda known. Typical non-adjacent neighborhood apologist. Why don't you sell your fringe neighborhood dump and buy one of the sweet pads in AY, clown?

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:04 PM

"Close enough to benefit and to walk to games, far enough to not be bothered by construction.It's a win win for us. Can't wait till it's done."

You know it, my man. Works for me!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:05 PM

Hey 2:01 and 2:05, you still live in Crown Heights.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:08 PM

"Ah, Crown Heights. Shoulda known. Typical non-adjacent neighborhood apologist. Why don't you sell your fringe neighborhood dump and buy one of the sweet pads in AY, clown?"

1. I'm not apologizing for anything here, nor should I.

2. I happen to love my home and my neighborhood, and I'm staying.

3. I don't want to live adjacent to AY. I just want to enjoy the peripheral benefits. I'm in pretty good position to do that now.

4. Your mother's a clown.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:19 PM

Fringe neighborhood? I"ll take my few income producing brownstones here in CH over your Newswalk apartments any day. My tenants will pay for my season tickets while you will sit choking on dust and crying over things that you can't change. Don't worry I'll send you a waaambulance.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:20 PM

"Hey 2:01 and 2:05, you still live in Crown Heights."

Yep, and I like it. Where do you live?

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:20 PM

"I'll take my few income producing brownstones here in CH"

You can keep 'em. Once we're in depression, your cozy little fringe neighborhood will be a shitpile once more. Nice rents you'll get then.

Did I say I live in Newswalk? I've got a Park Slope brownstone just off the park--paid for. And no grubby tenants, peasant. Plus a Hudson Valley weekend home. I'll watch the footage of your deflated brownstones being auctioned off in my home theater.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:37 PM

Stop all your ranting all you AY adjacent people in PH. Calm down and go take a cold shower. Oh, that's right ,you can't. No water. We may not be completely gentrified here in Crown Heights yet but we do have running water.I think I'll go take a nice hot bath now.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 2:47 PM

No auctions here pal. They are paid for and have been for quite some time now.I can afford to live wherever I please and I have. I also summer in London. The fact that you think that only a peasant would own an income producing property is absurd.What do you think of anyone who rents? You are exactly the type of person that Brooklyn does not need, and you wonder why people hate Park Slopers.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 3:03 PM

"And no grubby tenants, peasant."

You're quite superior, aren't you? Could it be you have no real concern for the "grubby tenants" in the AY-footprint, but instead are concerned only about your own convenience in AY-adjacent Park Slope? In other words, NIMBY?

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 3:13 PM

I agree with you 3:03 & 3:13. 2:37 is a prick.2:20 waambulance. That was hilarious.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 3:42 PM

So Crown Heights is now a "fringe" neighborhood to AY.

Well if that's the case then I am even more in favor of AY then ever. If the anti-AY folks think that the effects of the development will be so limited that Crown Heights barely registers a say in it, then clearly the effects will be very limited indeed.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 4:21 PM

When someone brags to me that he "summmers in London," I know that I'm dealing with a fool.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 4:50 PM

What's being lost in the equation here is that you can take the Nets out of New Jersey... but you can't take the "New Jersey" out of the Nets. Second rate franchise.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 4:52 PM

"Second rate franchise."

And what are the Knicks???

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 5:02 PM

The Knicks are minor league at best. Wouldn't take them either. But the Nets? Snore. Even when they were in the NBA finals, with J Kidd (one of the best players at his position of all time, though a wifebeater) leading the way, they inspired so little enthusiasm it was comical.

If you think transporting them to Brooklyn will change things, you don't know much about sports. Doomed franchises are doomed franchises. But please go check 'em out, plenty of seats available!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 5:13 PM

i summer in gibralter.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 5:21 PM

I winter in Leeds.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 5:45 PM

I summer in Coney Island.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 6:06 PM

2:37 is an obnixious asshole. Typical park sloper.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 6:11 PM

6:11 is a typical "closed out" second rate neighborhooder.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 7:00 PM

suck it slopers!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 9:10 PM

whip it out 9:10!

i'll get my magnifying glass.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:30 PM

10:30- magnifying glass not neccessary. I am sure you would enjoy it just fine.

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 10:47 PM

slope it suckers!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:11 PM

suckers slope it!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:50 PM

itters slope suck!

Posted by: guest at January 17, 2008 11:57 PM

Crown Heights BITES.

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 9:06 AM

Prospect Heights is TIGHT!!!

Posted by: guest at January 18, 2008 9:21 AM

« Thursday Events Fate of 163 Washington Still TBD »

January 17, 2008

AY Appeal Denied, Construction Headaches Begin

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