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January 23, 2008
Closing Bell: There Goes the Front Yard
Clinton Hill just got a little uglier—and a little more difficult to find a parking space in. The owner's plan to cut the curb and turn the front of the ground floor at 174 Clinton Avenue into a parking garage that we reported back in November is coming to fruition. A reader sends in this photo that shows the concrete and facade demolition has been completed. How can this be? The property falls just outside the historic district and just within the commercial overlay from Myrtle Avenue. The flipper's gain is everyone else's loss.
174 Clinton Avenue [Brown Harris Stevens] GMAP P*Shark DOB
Cut and Run at 174 Clinton Avenue [Brownstoner]
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Comments
I sense a green-eyed monster!
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:12 PM
I wonder if he sold the walling stones as historical bulding mateirals, or threw them in a skip.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:22 PM
I sense a very jealous editor.
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:23 PM
So did someone buy this place since it was last featured? I don't see that it changed hands.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:24 PM
This is why landmarking should apply to all of Brownstone Brooklyn
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:25 PM
He was able to do it because the property falls just outside the historic district and just within the commercial overlay from Myrtle avenue.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:26 PM
Why do something like that and then try to sell it? Most people would prefer an intact house rather than looking at a car from their front window. This person is an idiot.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:28 PM
Douche.
This is, indeed, why that block should have been landmarked long ago, along with hundreds of others.
It's a beautiful house. It will be a lot less beautiful with a Hummer parked in front.
And yeah, thanks for permanently reducing street parking, asshole.
Did I mention that you're a douche? You are.
Posted by: Rehab at January 23, 2008 4:29 PM
There are definitely ways to do the parking spot that leave the place looking ok. As far as making it harder for others to park- it's not really a sound argument. One lengthwise car gets removed from the block, leaving half a car length more for everyone else.
Is that yard even long enough to fit a car though? You need like 15 feet at minimun. Did the owner get a permit for the cut and driveway?
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:30 PM
How come people are just turning the nice old wood frames into two family condos and renovating them? You would make less on the sales, but it would take a lot less work. This whole area could take on a beautiful new englandy feel if people just put the houses back together. NY should have something like the 'heritage area' zonings of other cities to keep old wood houses like these alive. Not super strict landmark rulings, but a wider set of guidelines that govern renos and teardowns.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:32 PM
In San Francisco most of the Victorian townhouses have been altered to incorporate a garage. You gotta park somewhere. Why is this so bad? In the old days no one had cars but today almost everyone who owns a house has a car. That's the reality, people like to come and go and to take stuff here and there. If everyone had their own parking spot in front of their own house, I think that would be cool, altho I know it would upset the purists.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:33 PM
If he did NOT get a permit, now would be a terrific time to find out. Would be fun to see a stop-work order here.
On the point that "One lengthwise car gets removed from the block, leaving half a car length more for everyone else," well, I hadn't thought of it that way. But I also think that people parking on either side of a curb cut typically leave a lot of space on either side of the driveway. So I don't think your argument works.
Posted by: Rehab at January 23, 2008 4:35 PM
That is so depressing. I moved to Clinton Hill from San Francisco where curb-cuts and garage construction goes unchecked. There most sidewalks are blocked by cars parked in what the owner then thinks of as their driveway and it's harder and harder to find places to plant street trees. Most streets in New York are so much better for not having curbcuts and garages.
What a bummer.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:39 PM
I dodn't think you need landmarking...I just think you need zoning or law change to not allow this.
And don't buy argument that it doesn't make parking more difficult. That curb spot is now unusable 24/7 whether someone is using garage at the moment or not.
Next to me is a garage used just as storage - but they still have the curbcut - which ends up being owners private street parking.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:43 PM
Another example of the suburbanization of Brooklyn. I bet the flipper is putting granite in the kitchen too. Probably a master bathroom with his and her sinks. It's a regular McBrownstone.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:53 PM
Love the coinage - "McBrownstone" !
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 4:59 PM
You all are right, it really ruins the aesthetic, especially with the parking lot right next door. Get a grip, losers.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:02 PM
5:02, by that logic the next house down can now put in a garage too, since it is next to one. And then their neighbor, and then their neighbor, and then...
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:06 PM
I'm not sure a lot of you are getting this: it appears from the photos (and backed up by a search on the previous discussions of this project) that the owner plans on converting the front half (at least) of the lower level into a garage. The Hummer mentioned above will be parked IN the building...
Though it will probably add value (to some - and that's what matters in selling) I'm sad to see this building defiled like this. I'm fairly certain the reduction in depth of the Bay window (to get the clearance) combined with the addition of a garage door will end up being less than sympathetic to the original design, which does appear to be quite good. Proportion and taste, anyone? Anyone?? Oh well.
Posted by: roberto at January 23, 2008 5:08 PM
Do any of you have a car? A garage means no more driving around looking for a spot, remembering alternate side rules, parking tickets, broken windows, car theft / car theft anxiety. Sacrificing a scrubby little front garden? I'd kill to have a garage in my house. All of you hippies.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:09 PM
5:06, anyone can put in a garage as long as they have space and can obtain the proper permits. They don't need brownstoner's approval, thank god.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:09 PM
I have a car and my window was smashed last week. I would love to have a garage, even if it meant offending snobby brownstoners.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:13 PM
506: As Roberto so nicely put it, it is a question of "Proportion and taste." The later being something you clearly lack.
But by all means, blow out the garden level to put in a two car garage for your Hummer. Pretty soon the starbuck's will have a drive-thru window, no doubt, and you can simply hop on your private elevator and zip down to the Hummer and zoom over to get your latte.
McBrownstones for McUrbanites.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:15 PM
5:15, I'm thinking I'll buy a brownstone just outside a historic district of our fair borough. I'll paint the damned thing yellow and red, and leave my giant Hummer in my newly paved front yard. Idling. Just for you.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:23 PM
Get a life all of you.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:31 PM
Thank God some people still have an understanding of private property rights.
To the hippie tree f"ckers comparing SF to Brooklyn: please do all use brooklyn natives a favor and move back.
Posted by: MrHancock at January 23, 2008 5:31 PM
The value of that house will go up by $100,000 due to the parking spot. No brainer.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:39 PM
There is also such a thing as public property rights.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:41 PM
This is ugly and tasteless, like most of the posts on this blog.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:50 PM
Why even have the freedom to do what you want legally to your own property when we have brownstoner and his disciples to TELL you what to do!
I would do the same thing as this home owner if I had the chance.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 5:59 PM
Public property rights? Those generally refer to public property. This flipper built a legal garage and driveway on his property, with a legal curb cut.
Sorry snobs, this is not a tragedy of the commons. More like a comedy of the absurd.
Dude wants a place to put his damn car. Thanks to heaven I live in Williamsburg where most of the snob hippies on this board wouldn't deign to tread. One day, I too will build my garage. Probably have to cut down that ancient tree in front of my house, but I hate sweeping leaves anyway.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 6:02 PM
Will all of the complainers who are not the owners of this house, please mind your own dang beeswax?
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 6:38 PM
I have hippies come by in the autumn and sweep all the leaves. Then they wax my curb-cut.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 6:39 PM
parking spots are scarce enough around here that I can be sure this dude'll get parked in fairly often.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 6:50 PM
One less parking spot for all the asshat drivers! Thumbs up to the owner of the building!
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 8:09 PM
I let the hipsters eat my leaves.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 8:16 PM
I let my leaves eat hipsters.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 8:25 PM
better solution 8:25
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 8:29 PM
The big drawback of brownstone living is lack of parking. I wish I didn't need a car, but I do. And it is a challenge to keep it safe and unticketed in Park Slope. I wish I had a garage. It is the single thing I envy my friends in the burbs.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 10:02 PM
For people that want to stop the degradation of our neighborhoods and the privatization of sidewalks through curb cuts, please join the Coalition to Curb the Use of Curb Cuts.
http://www.nycstreets.org/projects/coalition-to-curb-the-use-of-curb-cuts/
The existing members all own legal curb cuts but think that they should be regulated, removed and/or taxed heavily.
Political pressure needs to be built to make new ones illegal and get old ones taxed or removed. Parking cars in urban, pedestrian friendly areas should not be free or easy for anyone.
Curb Cuts are bad because they:
-Expose pedestrians - especially children shorter than cars - to moving traffic;
-Allow driving on sidewalks;
-Encourage parking on sidewalks;
-Make pedestrians feel more vulnerable;
-Facilitate driving and short trips;
-Create inactive sidewalks with limited transparency to buildings;
-Subsidize car parking;
-Arbitrarily remove on-street parking spaces from the public;
-Are sooo suburban and ugly!
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 10:12 PM
I think 10:12 is a stark raving lunatic.
Why does NYC seem to attract these total whack jobs? It is not a city that is kind to the feeble-minded.
Move to a hippie commune in Montana you asshole!
Leave real people alone.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 10:35 PM
What's funny is the presumption that you are entitled to a car (at least one!) and a parking space when you move to a historic neighborhood that was hardscaped long before the age of the automobile. Kind of like moving to Anchorage and then whining that there aren't any palm trees (and then putting an ugly heated bubble around your house to grow some in). Real old-school urbanites and brownstoners take public transportation or rent Zipcars or mooch rides from others, and lord it over the rest of us. And people who are wedded to their cars move to proto-suburbs like Flatbush, where they built garages for the Model Ts and started us on the slide to perdition.
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at January 23, 2008 10:39 PM
It is a beutiful thing! I Have my own and watch people doing 30 minute circles around the block while I pull in and out anytime I want. Blocking my driveway? No problem. Call 311 and you got yourself a ticket and a tow. Tax dollars at work. You would have one too if you could, stop your nonsense or go hug a tree. Either way, I don't give a shit. A driveway in prime brooklyn? Priceless!!!!!!
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 11:31 PM
parking is tight on this block. If this ass cuts the curb, I'm sure someone will fuck his car up. dickhead.
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 11:40 PM
Oh yeah, and before you all start in tomorrow. Got a problem with that?
BLOW ME!!!!!!!
Posted by: guest at January 23, 2008 11:41 PM
Interesting how self-righteousness and arrogant entitlement go hand-in-hand.
Want to avoid parking tickets? Park legally.
Want easier parking? Get a smaller car.
Want a driveway and garage? Move to New Jersey.
Posted by: Hal at January 23, 2008 11:52 PM
"Interesting how self-righteousness and arrogant entitlement go hand-in-hand."
Are you being ironic or merely self-deprecating?
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 12:02 AM
No one has mentioned what this idiot is doing to his house. The destruction of what was probably the original dining room, for a stupid, fumes emitting car. Is there code regarding living directly above a garage space? Does the owner have to reinforce the ceiling or have a venting system to prevent CO2 emissions?
I hope there was no beautiful wainscotting, parquet and woodwork destroyed to make room for the proverbial Hummer, the ultimate wasteful vehicle, made even more wasteful by destroying an historic home. (I know, no one said he had a Hummer - just ranting) If you want to live in a suburban split level, move to the real suburbs.
So tacky.
Preservationista
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 12:15 AM
Oh, for heaven's sake.
There's a war on.
The economy is going down in flames.
Find something a little more important to fret about than a few scraps of wainscoting in somebody else's house.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 1:27 AM
Tacky indeed. Like other suburban conveniences such as air conditioning, electricity and indoor plumbing. I take my whale oil lamp to the outhouse every night and squat, scoffing at your 21st century notions of progress, and hygiene for that matter. So, so tacky.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 1:38 AM
Hey Preservationista,
No to the fume-emitting car, but can he put his horse and buggy in the garage?
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 8:24 AM
I think the owner has a good start in mind. I would then tear down the rest of the building and replace it with something more livable.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 8:25 AM
Owning a car is the main contributor to the suburbanization of Brooklyn. Take the damn subway, morons!
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 8:57 AM
Their house, their decision, as long as it's legal.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 10:21 AM
Assuming no laws or codes are being violated and you still don't like, move back to where you came from.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 10:31 AM
How many of the "anti-suburbanization" tools on complaining on this site about automobiles and garages are escaped suburbanites who have come to the city to live the urban life they fantasized about (rather than experience the urban life that actually is)? Silly carpetbaggers and your archaic urban utopia fantasies, cities are for people!
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 10:46 AM
As a born and bred Brooklynite, I am beyond disgusted by the comments on this thread. "Property rights" is the call of the suburbanite. Here in the city we put the urban fabric and architectural integritiy of our neighborhoods over personal convienience. The idea that the owner can destroy his building how ever he wants is totally repulsive and foreign to any real urbanite.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 10:46 AM
"As a born and bred Brooklynite..."
Park Slope doesn't count, you commie.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 10:49 AM
10:46 That is total Bullshit. "We". Since when did you start paying my mortgage? I don't care what you think of how I live.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:02 AM
11:02, I speak for most natives and long-term residents. You are clearly one of those people who were destined to move to Jersey but were too much of a lemming to do so when Brooklyn became cool.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:11 AM
How about we eliminate *on-street* parking, plant grass and trees between the sidewalk and the street, and then allow curb-cuts to whoever wants them? City-subsidized free parking goes away, green space increases, cruising for parking goes down...
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:18 AM
11:11, you speak for yourself and a bunch of delusional new brownstone owners. Natives and long-term residents, and in general real people with real lives, know that a car makes damn good sense in almost all of Brooklyn. That is, if you have to do things like shop for groceries, get out of the city once in a while and, horror, travel for work to places that the subway doesn't reach.
Should you and your kind ever come to speak for most natives and residents, it won't be Jersey that I move to, maybe Texas. And when the revolution comes, it won't end well for your kind.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:18 AM
"I Speak For". Did you get elected or something? Your problem 11:11 is the simple fact that you are speaking for anyone else but yourself and you are not doing that well either. Case in point, your assumption that I moved here. Wrong answer.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:23 AM
11:18 I have a car but I do not need to have it under my feet at all times. I grew up in a brownstone and lived in one my entire life and the idea of needing--or even wanting!-- a garage in the house is beyond absurd.
If there is ever a revolution it will be you and the other spolied, whining, pampered, lazy scum who are roasted on the spit. Can't wait.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:23 AM
11:02/11:23-- I asummed that you were born here and SHOULD have moved to the burbs where you can have the attached garage of your dreams.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:26 AM
"Here in the city we put the urban fabric and architectural integritiy of our neighborhoods over personal convienience."
Funniest. Post. Ever.
Your altruism is admirable, if totally unbelievable.
So when Mr Developer Man comes a-knocking on your door and opens up a can of Eminent Domain Whuop-ass, you will happily give up your "personal convenience" for the sake of the "urban fabric?"
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 11:49 AM
"Here in the city we put the urban fabric and architectural integritiy of our neighborhoods over personal convienience."
You're nuts, and I'm a born and bred Brooklynite, lifelong resident and homeowner. Believe me, if I could get a curb cut in front of my house in Crown Heights, I'd do it. No second thoughts.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 12:10 PM
The moron owner is doing this not for his own car, but because he thinks this will increase the value of the home which he is actively trying to sell. I spoke with the broker months ago. It is a value destroying proposition. If the dipshit actually knew the market of people interested in these historic homes, he would know that ripping out the ground floor where the original dining room and fireplace would be located, to put in a garage is not only ugly, but not what the buyers' are looking for in these old homes. Also, having a small garden out front to plant a tree and some shrubs for greenery and privacy, that most people want, will now be impossible. What a moron.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 12:19 PM
11.18, I'm a 5th generation Brooklynite (we emigrated from Manhattan) and I think this garage/curb cut plan is a travesty. You don't speak for all "natives". Who cares how long someone's lived here anyway, they can have their own opinion.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 12:34 PM
So a garage is a value destroying proposition? I don't think there are as many of you out there as you think. Find some good comps for this house. Then check what this one goes for, real estate slowdown be damned.
Do you really think there are more "respecters of the urban fabric and architectural integrity" than people who have a car and want to park it in their own garage? No.
What's the most irritating thing about the self-proclaimed "new urbanites"?
-the snobbishness
-the delusions
-the desire to control others
-the hemp fabric stuck in the grille of my Hummer, and the patchouli stink that lingers after I run them down
So many choices.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 12:42 PM
more like the Rolex and Marc Jacobs bag stuck in the grill. The people buying these houses are not hippies, if anything their moneyed professionals looking for historic homes in historic neighborhoods. That is why there is such a reaction, not out of some hippy bullshit. How old are you, 60?
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 1:06 PM
Forget about the aesthetics.
I don't understand how it could make economic sense to trash 1/8th of a $2 million brownstone to build a garage.
That means you are valuing the 1-car garage space at $250K.
That is, what, $1,250 a month or so in carrying costs.
Why would anyone do that? Just leave the place as it is and offer to reimburse any car-loving buyer for their garage costs for the next 10 years.
YOu'd be way ahead.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 1:12 PM
Hey brownstoner and his lackeys, do you also want to tell me how I should dress and what brand of clothing I should wear while walking about in "your" Brooklyn townhouse neighborhoods? I suppose you also want to tell me how to cut my hair and the proper style I should have? Do you also want to tell me how to wipe my own ass?
Almost all of you townhouse owning people have this ingrained lemming following what everybody does mentality. No sense of being a unique individual and wanting to live your live the way you see fit the way you want to. So sad and so pathetic.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 1:43 PM
"more like the Rolex and Marc Jacobs bag stuck in the grill"
A hippie snob with money is still a hippie. Some of them even have jobs. And yes, this is total hippie bullshit--utopian urban disneyland fantasy totalitarian crap.
I used to drive around Williamsburg looking for hipsters to flatten. That got too easy, and then it got dangerous--I hit a couple of lawyers, and, well it's been a tough year. I learned you got to get 'em twice, no lawsuits that way. Now I'm coming to brownstone Brooklyn.
--the thing that eats hippies
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 1:54 PM
11:11/11:26 Got more sad news for you. I have one of those houses with a garage. Stick to speaking for yourself, I can at least respect that as opposed to your self proclaimed moral superiority. You are so arrogant you don't even know that you are an asshole.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 2:04 PM
1:12 Not everything is about money. Life and convenience may matter to some. Who am I to question someone devaluing there house. If it makes em happy, then they did what was right for them. On the flip side, you can count your money while looking for parking.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 2:08 PM
Hey Brownstoner -
Maybe you can flag comments that are nothing more than empty anonymous attacks on other people's ideas. The rest of us could save time by skipping the post entirely.
If you have to attack other people and their ideas to make your point, it says a lot more about the insecurity you feel about your ideas.
These discussions are constantly relegated to the worst of the grade school playground.
When is the culture of blog discussion groups going to get past this snark army? It is so boring.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 2:16 PM
Which attacks? The outright straight up nasty ones or the self rightous and pompous "your wrong because you don't agree with me" implied ones? Is there a difference?
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 2:22 PM
@2:16.
I can see you are one of those tattletales. Mommy, mommy, mommy, he stuck his tongue out at me! Mommy, mommy, mommy she doesn't like me because she says I'm a baby! Mommy, mommy, mommy the teacher gave me an F on my test even though I tried really hard but got all the answers wrong! Mommy, mommy, mommy I have no friends!
Yeah, I definitely think you and commenter's like you should be banned from the site by IP address and MAC address.
Posted by: guest at January 24, 2008 3:25 PM
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