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December 27, 2007

Will Union Demands Impede Affordable Housing?

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The relationship between the city’s powerful labor unions and the real estate industry has been showing serious signs of strain lately, and one of Brooklyn’s biggest housing organizations says the rift could affect the creation of affordable housing even as it improves wages and, potentially, diversity in the industry. There’s been a spate of stories over the past couple of weeks about how unions want livable wage clauses tied into projects that require rezoning or that benefit from city and state funding—projects, in other words, that often include affordable housing. The head of the Fifth Avenue Committee, which develops and manages affordable housing (the group’s current projects include Atlantic Terrace and the Red Hook Homes), says she supports the idea of using union labor—especially when unions commit to expanding and diversifying membership—but is wary of how it might impact the construction of affordable housing. “We support unionization but we wouldn’t want it to negatively impact the number of affordable units being built,” says Fifth Avenue Committee Executive Director Michelle de la Uz. De la Uz said the majority of the current government funding structures don't include enough money to cover union wages for affordable housing and that government would have to commit to increasing funding for affordable housing projects by between 25 and 40 percent to ensure the use of union labor. Ironically, perhaps, the unions are also demanding that all redevelopment projects include affordable housing. Clusterf---!
Unions: Redevelopment Projects Should Have Affordable Housing Guarantees [NYDN]




Posted by Gabby at 10:00 AM | Comments (35)
Categories: Affordable Housing

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Comments

Unions suck. They served a great purpose 75 years ago, but now they are obsolete, price-fixing, thugocracies, that exist only to drive prices up and decrease efficiency and prodcutivity.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 10:18 AM

If the people who actually built affordable housing were guaranteed a "living wage" they could afford what they build--we can't have that, can we? :-)

Posted by: Bob Marvin at December 27, 2007 10:26 AM

special interest, self-serving local unions are powerless against big corporations. so deals they make are laced with corruption and don't necessarily protect the members, but they deal as long as they get what they want for themselves. lowlife thugs.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 10:26 AM

I think what Guest 10:18 says has some truth to it. Now, swap in the words "rent controls" for the word "unions," and there's truth, there, too.

Posted by: Rehab at December 27, 2007 10:42 AM

Given the recent articles about how the very rich have gotten obscenely richer over the past 30 years while the working class has remained steady or lost ground, how corporate raiders have wrung profits out of corporations by firing older workers, and how the same rich continue to avoid paying taxex, it is gross how we are allowing the ruling classes to convince us that we can have affordable housing or livable wages, but not both. There is no reason why government funded and other large scale projects should not use union wages. The exploitation of immigrant labor and the lack of safety evident on worksites throughout this city is appalling. I would actively oppose any low income housing project or government housing which didn't use union labor. I am sickened by the Fifth Avenue Committee attitude.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at December 27, 2007 10:44 AM

And thanks "Brownstoner" for the anti-union headline.

Posted by: Putnamdenizen at December 27, 2007 10:46 AM

Having worked in the industry for nearly 30 years in the US, and having seen the difference in execution and cost between dozens of union and non-union projects, it baffles me why anyone would build a reasonably substantial development with non-union labor. It's the classic example of "penny-wise, pound foolish". There is a greater degree of skill and safety training among unionized workers, and a higher level of professionalism of the subcontractors employing them. The resultant schedule and work-quality advantages of this almost always, in my experience, result in projects being completed with more predictability and at no greater cost that going the non-union route.

Posted by: johnife at December 27, 2007 10:47 AM

Greedyassed Developers Suck. They served a great purpose never, and amazingly they are still money-grubbing, penny-pinching, criminal operations that exist only to line their pockets with the greatest amount of lucre while providing substandard housing and unsafe working conditions. You must be a greedy developer's lazy child, 10:18.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 11:49 AM

johnife: Are you a member of a union?

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 1:37 PM

Side Note:
I saw the union picketers, and that big inflatable rat they put on the sidewalk, about 2 months ago in that same spot pictured above.

Posted by: Mamacita at December 27, 2007 1:56 PM

It is great to see and hear the sounds of the socialist complex crashing in NYC. Unions, "coalitions", "activists", etc: all looking for either the taxpayers' money and/or the power of the legislature to force people to do things there way. But note what happens when they are hoist on their own petard, as we see in this case.

Ms. de la Uz is such a hypocrite. This is the leader of an organization that thinks nothing of holding a "block party" to try to publicly intimidate an individual owner into not converting their 3 family home into a single family home (and in the process remove these two apartments from rent control). No skin off her and the FAC's back, and she'll look the other way when the thugs at the "block party" try to "persuade" the new owners from converting.

But try to convince Ms. de la Uz to use Union labor, and see what happens!!! She'll only do it if the taxpayers (that is, you and I) hand her more money.

What a hypocrite. It is such a pleasure to watch the whole socilist complex in NYC, once so strong, come to its ineviatble crash - the crash of its own contorted logic.

Benson

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 1:57 PM

This is the kind of shit that squeezes out the middle class. The middle class in this country is just becoming less and less. I am disgusted at these huge corporations and big shot developers. They want every fucking dollar better yet penny they can get. MORE and MORE and MORE money it's never enough for these greedy bastards.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 2:08 PM

No, I'm not in a union, 1:37. Were I, however, not so fortunate as to be in my chosen profession but in one of those (typically manual labor) job fields where aching limbs, calloused hands, and a sweaty brow were regarded as lesser virtues than an MBA hanging on the wall, you bet your bottom dollar I'd be a union member.

Posted by: johnife at December 27, 2007 2:16 PM

Easy for you to say, Benson--you've got that sweet job with the Governor. But don't think we forgot you were once a lowly Butler!

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 2:22 PM

2.08;

You posts are such drivel. There isn't a speck of reasoned argument in your posts: just the usual emotional class-warfare nonsense.

Karl Marx is dead: get over it.

Benson

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 2:24 PM

Please learn to spell "socialist" and "inevitable" Benson. Or have your rentboy do it for you.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 2:28 PM

2:22pm be careful you're dating yourself. It did crack me up though! good one

Posted by: Mamacita at December 27, 2007 4:18 PM

Putnamdenizen and Johnife:

Good Words! Gotta put it in perspective! The race to the bottom while the few, with deregulation and continuing on the same anti-union/anti-worker tactics (and some new ones!) that have been in fashion since the mid-1800 get insanely rich. In fact, it was okay in the US after WWII. With the beginning of 70s deregulation which had done nothing but expand over the decades and "Free Trade" treaties pushed through in the last decades we are really in for it.

Oh, well...movin' to a homestead in the country!

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 6:13 PM

6.13 PM and fellow travelers;

Instead of moving to the country, why not move to Western Europe, where unions are still very strong?? Regulation is also strong in every facet of the economy. It's the paradise socialists are looking for: government-provided health care, housing, the works. It's great.

Oh, that's right, there's just one problem: no jobs, no growth, a dying continent. Not even enough money for people to have more than one kid.

That's the price you pay for following Karl.

Benson

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 6:48 PM

Hey Benny, I'll make sure to mention that to all the Europeans jetting in to NYC to spend their mack diesel Euro against our flaccid, 98 pound weakling of a dollar.

What planet are you on, Asshat?

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 7:06 PM

Hey Benny, I'll make sure to mention that to all the Europeans jetting in to NYC to spend their mack diesel Euro against our flaccid, 98 pound weakling of a dollar.

What planet are you on, Asshat?

Sincerely,

Karl

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 7:06 PM

Hey benson, you need to seriously get a life.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 7:52 PM

Karl;

It's so great debating with people who appeal to vulgarity, emotion and class warfare, rather than reasoned argument.

Do you really want to compare the US economy to that of Europe's? I suggest that you look at the overall facts, rather than just a buying spree by decandent European trust-babies.

Some facts:

-Over the past 20 years, there has been no employment growth in most advanced European economies, such as France, Italy, and until recently, Germany.

-There has been virtually no innovation in these moribund economies. During the past 25 years, vast new wealth has been created in the US due to the emergence of new companies, technologies and sectors. Tell me, Karl: where are the European equivalents of Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, UTube, Apple and Dell Computer????

-Most of the European counties are in a demogrpahic downward spiral. Italy, France, Germany and the Scandanavian countries produce more deaths than births.

A sad situation. That's what you get when you reject personal liberty and responsibilty, and put your trust in a socialistic nanny-state.

I'll expect your next irrational, vulgar, response.

Benson


Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 7:54 PM

Every worker deserves respect. You can't blame just the developers. I see plenty of really young spanish speaking kids working on brownstone renovations in Park Slope. Don't they deserve a living wage as well? How many Forum posts on this site complain about the high costs of renovations. Do you ask whether those guys hauling dirt out of your basement in hundreds of plastic compound buckets are being covered by workers comp or S.S.? Or are you just concerned about the bottom line?

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 10:10 PM

What's funny is that Benson thinks this country isn't in debt up to our assholes to China. Brush up on your Mandarin, relic.

Posted by: guest at December 27, 2007 11:18 PM

11.18 PM;

Once again, you have shown how reasoned and respectful my opposition has been in this debate.

High debt?? What are you talking about??? For your information, the important metric is not the amount of debt, but the ratio of our debt to our gross domestic product. By this metric, the US is doing QUITE well, especially compared to the other major industrial countries (of which China is not yet a member).

I'm sure you won't believe me, so here is an explanation from Northwest University of what I just said:

http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/~mwitte/B01/handouts/deficit1.html

As you can see, the US has had much higher periods of indebtedness than the current time: after WWII, for instance. I invite you to google the debt/gdp ratio for other major countries, and you will see that their ratio is much higher than the US's. But then again, that might mean that this debate moves into the realm of reason and facts, not vulgarity and name-calling.

By the way, I am amused that you call me a "relic". I cited the companies that are on the pinnacle of innovation and value creation, and you talk about China. Yeah, that's the way to the top of the heap these days: manufacturing $14 T-shirts.

Benson

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 12:00 AM

Benson is right. The US has recently created all sorts of innovative new finance products that are causing the entire banking system as we know it to implode.

Bravo, America, bravo! Those aren't the dying embers of a failing empire, but the glow of a new gilded age.

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 12:14 AM

12.14 AM;

No, you are right. The ENTIRE banking system is "imploding"!! Why, I thought there was a winding down of one small sector of home mortgage financing (which in itself is a small segment of the entire financial industry). That's what I thought. But no...you are right. The banks are IMPLODING!!! The SKY IS FALLING!!!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!! Our empire is failing!!!

Why, the next thing you know: the Chinese are going to buy Rockefeller Center from us !!!!

Hey, wait a minute...Haven't I heard that before?????

Dream on, 12.14 AM....

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 12:51 AM

12:51 - Don't read the financial pages much, do you?

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 12:24 PM

Over under on Benson's age?

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 2:54 PM

2.54 PM;

I'm old enough to have lived through the 80's, when all the doomsayers predicted that Japan, Inc. would clean our clocks. Didn't quite work out that way, did it? I also personally lived through the dot-com bust of the early 2001 period, as I work for a high-tech company. Once again, the doomsayers were out in force during the collapse of that bubble. Well, here we are with the IPOD, UTUbe, Google, and the tech sector is back better than ever.

The biggest laugh is these know-nothings who predict the rise of China, overlooking the facts on the ground. A country ruled by thugs who grant no political freedom, and whose economic play consists of arbitrage on the low-cost manufacture of toys and socks for Wal-Mart, is not a recipe for mastery. Not a single Chinese brand name has emerged in the global market past twenty years. Japanese corporations are everywhere, and have mint brands associated with high quality. Care to mention one high-quality Chinese brand??? The recent product recalls have confirmed that the Chinese system places no emphasis on quality control and, for that matter, protection of intellectual property.

As for the doomsayers' fears about the US bonds they hold: who is in the drivers' seat in this situation?? What are the Chinese going to do: call in their chips on the country to whom they sell? Why the heck do you think they buy these bonds in the first place.

As I said at the beginning, I'm old enough to laugh at the Chicken Little's, as I have seen them before.

Benson

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 3:33 PM

Hey, that's cool you don't want to reveal your age but prefer instead to offer more pontification. I was just interested in knowing how many more years we would have to put up with a selfish windbag like you on planet Earth.

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 4:09 PM

4.09 PM;

Thank you for anticipating my death.

Happy Holidays.

Benson

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 6:12 PM

"Why the heck do you think they buy these bonds in the first place."

To deliver a killing blow when it suits them?

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 7:01 PM

Why do you hate Christmas so much, Benson?

Posted by: guest at December 28, 2007 11:43 PM

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