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December 13, 2007

Inside Third & Bond: Week 17

Today's guest post from the Hudson Companies bloggers turns the attention from plans for the kitchen to the great outdoors.

Now that our building design is nearly complete, we’ve turned our attention to what surrounds the buildings: the outdoors. Third & Bond has 38 private outdoor spaces (enough for 85% of buyers to have their own) as well as 7 front yards and a courtyard. We want these spaces to look great, be easy to maintain, and meet our “green” goals. In short, we needed a green landscaping genius. Fortunately, one of our brokers, Leslie Marshall, had been contacted recently by The Organic Gardener about potential work and she passed on the suggestion.

When we called up The Organic Gardener (aka Timothy Osborne), we found out that not only does he use only organic materials, making him a great LEED-friendly fit for our building, but he also does really beautiful work as shown in the above before and after of a rear yard in Brooklyn.

More photos and discussion on the jump...

This yard is spectacular but we also wanted to know if he could do something a little less formal and less expensive. This backyard looks great for a social couple who entertain frequently, but what about a yard built with the flexibility needed for kids and a dog? No problem. Here’s an example:

Convinced that his work has a pretty wide range as exemplified by these photos, we came up with two categories of design projects for him to take on.

First, a design for the outdoor spaces that we’ll install as the developer and will likely be maintained in the future by the condo association: the front yards and the courtyard. It needs to be easy to care for and fit the design vision for the building. Second, a design for the outdoor spaces accompanying our model residences during the sales and marketing phase: a duplex’s rear yard and a private roof terrace. We love the idea of showing the potential of these green spaces in a similar manner to staging the interior model with furniture.

The Organic Gardener came into the office last week to toss around a few ideas for Third & Bond. Stay tuned for the actual designs in the coming weeks, but for now here’s a sneak peak on some of the ideas and materials he’s pitched to us so far.

Dutch Gardens

Drawing on the area’s Dutch history, he showed us some Dutch-inspired gardens. We liked the playful shapes of the formally planned gardens and the espaliered trees. (Both shown here.) Another bonus: Dutch gardens are designed with plant materials that are colorful in the summer and winter.

Grass-Less

This is important as grass is a LEED no-no. Lawn grasses like crab grass and Kentucky blue grass are not native to North America and require a tremendous amount of watering compared with native coastal grasses. Typically, we would deliver rear yards with either sod (i.e., grass) or plain, boring dirt but The Organic Gardener inspired us to consider something new for our model yard. He had a number of ideas on how to make more sustainable yards using elements ranging from pea gravel to artfully placed concrete blocks and stone pavers. For the parts of the garden where we want a little more green he suggested grouping native coastal grasses (shown here) that consume less water than your typical backyard variety.

Native Plants and Local Materials

The Organic Gardener’s plant suggestions were almost all native including lavender and dogwood. The lavender is especially neat because it comes in a mind-blowing variation of purples and smells amazing (shown here but, sadly, not smell-able here). He also has local wood and stone sources for any elements we might have to build up in the backyard

Butterflies

Everyone knows that real estate developers love butterflies, so it’s probably no surprise that satisfying the local butterfly population is pretty much our #1 priority at Third & Bond. But seriously, another benefit to choosing local plants is that they are more attractive to birds and butterflies native to the area. We’re hoping our plant materials will be especially attractive to winged wildlife.

Inside Third & Bond: Week 16 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 15 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 14 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 13 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 12 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 11 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 10 [Brownstoner]
Inside Third & Bond: Week 9 [Brownstoner]
From our lawyers: “This is not an offering. No offering can be made until an offering plan is filed with the Department of Law of the State of New York."

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Comments

Oh My God. Perfect.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:48 AM

Absolutely gorgeous.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:51 AM

Magically Delicious.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:52 AM

Utterly fantastic. As in fantasy.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:53 AM

Wow. You can do anything with enough CREAM.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:53 AM

And benzene.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:59 AM

they made both of those residential yards look like cafes.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 12:06 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Park Slope, Brooklyn Heights, and Carroll Gardens, and I can say without hyperbole that these gardens are a million times better than all of them put together.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 12:21 PM

cafes?
what are you on?
They look like exquisite private gardens of the sort one hardly ever sees in our brutish and hyper-active city.
Serene and gorgeous.
Very un-Brooklyn.
It looks like Milan, or Barcelona, or one of those civilized places where people do more than just work for a living.
Ahhh....

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 12:25 PM

Gardens do look fantastic, but where do children play? These would be ideal for the von Trapp family kids who weren't allowed to run around but could go for guided walks as exercise.

I'd be interested in seeing someone's design for a beautiful space that also provides for real use of the backyard for children, not just adults.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 12:27 PM

12:27 pm again -- Also, I don't understand the big circle of white stones in the after photo of the 2nd example. The before photo garden, with a little tending, would work better for my family, even if it isn't a showcase place where I can entertain my friends.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 12:39 PM

12:27,
Children!
That's another thing.
Why do children have to guide every design decision in the US? I think that is one of the reasons why we live in such ugly houses, and possibly why our children are such needy self-entitled little wrecks.
I would send the kids to boarding school for a garden like this.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 12:54 PM

12:54, are you a scooby doo villain? "that garden layout would have succeeded, if it weren't for those meddlesome kids!"

Posted by: z at December 13, 2007 1:01 PM

"I would send the kids to boarding school for a garden like this."

Save money for the therapy they will be needing after such fine parenting as yours.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:06 PM

12:27 again: Clearly you and Captain von Trapp have alot in common. Conflating asking for the ONLY outdoor space to be a place where kids can play with "entitlement" is quite a stretch. Did your parents have a backyard good only for taking walks? I don't think that all of us who actually grew up with the luxury of a backyard, albeit small, became self-entitled little wrecks. No one has said every design decision to be guided by children, but come on, these houses are presumably being marketed to families, given their size, and given their distance from any park, it's not presumptuous to expect a backyard is a little bit kid-friendly.

I do know parents who have showcase homes and gardens with fancy furniture that you are afraid to sit upon. There's some kid space upstairs, where the nanny can entertain the children, but no toy shall leave that space for fear it ruin the precisely designed main common area, fit only for adult parties. In fact, that's the way alot of people on the upper east side live. They are the entitled ones. I always thought Brooklyn was a bit more laid back. But perhaps you are one of those new breed of investment bankers buying 3+ million dollar homes in our fair borough, but hoping to bring a touch of the upper east side to Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:09 PM

I'm not crazy about children no,
Is the scooby doo villain sophisticated and
impeccably dressed? If so,it may be a fit.
Seriously,I have been to people's homes -nice people- where the children, and their toys and crap were all over the place. It looked like "kids gone wild"; "Lord of the Fies -the co-op"!
Kids are not supposed to have total control of the house and garden. What is the matter with people? Well, I guess there have always been slobs, and people who blame the kids and the dog for the mess.
Good design can co-exist with children as long as the children are not ku-coo, granted, that's something, and the parents set parameters, such as no, you cannot dig up the birches.
Honestly, in the constant battle between civilization and children, the latter seem to be winning in the pricey enclaves of brownstone brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:12 PM

1:12 -- it's 12:27 again. Of course good design can exist with children. That's exactly what I was asking for. You have gone too far the other way -- design that completely ignores that children exist. I don't like the "kids gone wild" look either (and sometimes our home does look like that), but come on -- there has to be some middle ground.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:16 PM

As someone who was constantly told to "put down that book and go outside and play," I think lawns are highly overrated.

How many millions of kids grow up in apts without yards in NYC? Even my brother the athlete avoided the copious amounts of boring lawn in our suburban backyard.

Posted by: nosleeptil at December 13, 2007 1:29 PM

I made the "not crazy about kids" comment and you know, it is partially tongue-in-cheek and partially not. But in all seriousness the very elegant garden is best suited for a couiple, or household without children in residence. There are plenty of us around and one of the pleasures of that state is that one can have fine breakable objects, sharp edges, and even art around the house. One can even have a serene "Zen" garden like this one if one has the money and taste. Kids do not have to factor into every design because they are absent in some households.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:37 PM

My crap is all over the house (books, computer, furniture, art, etc..) Why should I expect my children to keep their's confined to a single room.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:38 PM

nosleeptil, did you ever play outside at all? If so, where? I was a bookworm growing up in suburbia, but when I was little (10 and under) I ran around outside with my friends. I bet if you think about it you did the same when you were young -- of course by the time you were a pre-teen you probably stopped using it.

Of course millions of kids grow up without an outdoor place to play. But if your family HAS an outdoor space, why wouldn't you try to accomodate a place to play?

From ages 5 - 9 or so, kids can actually play in a backyard without their parents being there every moment. Unlike the city playgrounds, where parents hover around, they actually get a bit of independence. I hardly think this creates an entitled kid.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:41 PM

How much sun will these gardens get? Any ideas from Organic Gardener about what to plant in the typically shady brooklyn garden?

Posted by: trudylou at December 13, 2007 1:43 PM

1:37 (and 1:12, etc.),

I actually agree with your last post. You are absolutely right that a household without children can achieve a fantastic design look that those with children can't. And of course for a household with no kids, NO design decision should be made with kids in mind. When my kids are grown, I'd love one of these beautiful gardens.

I started this (I'm 12:27) because I was surprised that every example here was, as you said, an elegant garden best suited to a household without kids. But I assumed from all these Third and Bond postings that the developer very much had families in mind as their market for many of these units. So I was surprised that the gardens they showed were so highly unsuitable for anyone with kids.

I would love to find a designer who could re-do our backyard into something that was both lovely and kid-friendly. Frankly, it looks like some of these before photos and I don't like it. It would be great if the developers here posted the landscaper's idea of what a lovely but kid-friendly outdoor space might look like.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:53 PM

The white circle of stones would be great for a dog to dig in or all the neighborhood cats to piss in.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 1:54 PM

Actually i don't even have kids and I thought the designs were very nice to look at but were lacking a certain usability. Even if you wanted to have some adult friends over for a BBQ and drinks how functional would these spaces be (especially the first one). Maybe i am too utilitarian but i think first and foremost a house should be functional and then attractive.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 2:04 PM

I get it and all, but I'd rather have a grass lawn. I've heard some buildings catch rainwater or greywater for the plants.

I'd rather walk over plants than artful gravel and concrete.

Posted by: slick at December 13, 2007 2:38 PM

You do not live in the suburbs! City kids play in front with their friends (jumping rope, playing hopscotch, throwing a football in the street) or they hang out on the stoop. Or, they can hang out in the backyard. Or they mix and mingle in the park.

I HATE going to people's homes with primary colored toys taking over the apartment. Those kinds of houses ALWAYS have little bratty, smart-mouthed, disrespectful kids who are cared for by some woman of color or a stay at home mom with degree from, I'll just say Swarthmore.

That first garden is wonderful and my kids would figure out how to have fun in it. Although I guess a wood swing set with subdued colors might work. Yep, that's right, I wouldn't want to ruin the space with crazy kid stuff.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 2:42 PM

i do have a kid and just had my backyard done in a more grown up although use-able manner.

we happen to live in williamsburg, so they are so many kid friendly places - mccarren park, mamalu's play room, Ms. J's, grand street playground, marcy playground, mcgolrick park, that it's so easy to just go a real playground.

Also, after reviewing what it would take to really get nice grass, we decided that it wasn't worth. We really don't have a storage area for a mower either.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 2:43 PM

Lawns waste water and although attractive, are stupid.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 2:44 PM

Unfortunately, in this veil of tears, practicality and elegance are pretty much diametrically opposed forces. Harsh but true. This has never been truer than it is today with the minimalist aesthtic so in vogue at the moment for interiors. Impossibly difficult to live in but so chic -and HOT!
It is like comparing fluffy slippers verus Blahnik heels. Diametrically opposed, you gotta pick sides. Most, by far go with practical, (some fool themselves into thinking they are also elegant -they are sadly mistaken) a very few, such as the people who built some of these gardens select beauty and style over mundane practicality. Whatever sets your alarm n'est-ce pas?

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 2:59 PM

That garden is practical (for an low maintenance escape) but certainly not everyone's aesthetic. My neighbor had a colorful country garden on one side which she lovingly tended to until she passed away; on the other side they turned the whole yard into a basketball court. My mother had a vegetable garden and we played on the concrete under an old weeping willow at the yard's other end. Mostly, we played outside. No play dates. You just met your friends outside and played on the block. Does anybody in Brownstone Brooklyn remember this life?

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 3:17 PM

Come on, who wouldn't want to come home to that garden? Be serious people!

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 3:19 PM

What is the contact (phone or website) information for The Organic Gardner? I would love for him to design my backyard. It is clearly in the BEFORE stage.

Posted by: keep at December 13, 2007 3:55 PM

What a wonderfully Zen place to relax in, as long as you get your relaxing done before the local frat boy on mommy's dime and/or wannabe "gangsta" starts blasting Hot 97-style crap at the whole neighborhood. For me, I need to get my relaxing done by 10 AM. Hope the folks at 3rd and Bond have better luck with their back yards.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 4:18 PM

4:18, I guess you can take brooklyn out of the garden, but you can't take the garden out of Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 4:52 PM

Here's The Organic Gardener's website:

http://www.theorganicgardenernyc.com/

You can email Timothy at info@theorganicgardenernyc.com

Posted by: Alison at December 13, 2007 5:33 PM

trudylou:

The backyards will get a good amount of sun, especially the northwest corners. The east side of the fence will be a good deal shadier. In thinking about this issue, TOG suggested putting focal points (like a dogwood) in the northwest corner. The sun was another reason to avoid a lot of grass -- it would be hard to keep it looking uniform since it wouldn't get the same amount of sun all over.

Posted by: Alison at December 13, 2007 5:37 PM

Lovely gardens. A point well made and well taken is that not everything has to be about kids.
There are, bless us. still some urbanites without kids that do not want romper room aesthetics entering our lives.
I love the poster who indignantly wants to know where her kids can play in your garden.
How self-absorbed.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 7:40 PM

it's a wet sidewalk with gravel on either side and some uplighting. wtf?

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 9:29 PM

1:41 PM I only played outside at recess. Nothing at home could compete with what I found in books. Besides, grass makes me sneeze.

Posted by: nosleeptil at December 13, 2007 10:31 PM

7:40, You are (willfully?) misunderstanding the earlier posting that asked about a place for kids to play. Of course no one expects a kid to play in your garden. But to expect a kid might play in his own back yard is apparently, in your eyes, an appalling thought, for such a design would clearly ruin the overall aesthetic. I agree these gardens are lovely and perfect for urbanites without kids.

But we are talking about a complex of townhouses that are likely to appeal to families simply because they are so large in size. Every single example of a garden here was inappropriate for kids, except perhaps the kind who take walks with the nanny to get their fresh air. And I love the other posters' suggestion that it is far less indulgent for the parents to have the kids playing on the stoops and sidewalks (or throwing footballs on busy 3rd Street!) so that the large gardens in the back can remain in their pristine states, to be viewed but not touched.

Is it really so self-absorbed to ask for just one example to be both beautiful and functional for people with kids?

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:03 PM

It seems to me that many people with children simply cannot afford houses in the city any more. They have to move to the burbs. Many of the folks buying these expensive beauties in the city have no kids or have grown-up kids. that is why they are in a position to afford the house. Folks with kids are sapped of resources and need to flee to the burbs, it is only natural, I look forward to a day in the not so distant future when our lovely historic neighborhoods will be back in the hands of grown-ups absent the bratty childen, hyper-active due to the lack of playspace. Kids belong in the country. let them grow up there, then move back. for heavens sake, is that so difficult to understand? Is there anything kids hate more than historic rowhouses in historic neighborhoods in the city? Except maybe for gay kids possibly.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:18 PM

i grew up in a brownstone and loved it. my kids, in the burbs love it. kids adapt.

Posted by: guest at December 13, 2007 11:46 PM

The firm for which I design gardens in NYC, Holly, Wood and Vine, recently discovered that Mr Osborn's new website relies heavily on images of gardens that our firm designed, installed and currenly maintains. In fact more than half of its garden images are of our gardens. He worked for us for a while as a gardener about two years ago and had access to these gardens.
I would check his credentials out a little more carefully before haveing a third party profile him in glowing terms as a reputable landscape practitioner.
I do not know whether the gardens pictured above (also from his website) are actually designed by Mr Osborne or not, but based on our experience, some inquiry would be worthwhile.
For interest: The so-called "Dutch" garden influence pictured above is an image of Buchart Gardens outside Victoria in British Columbia, designed and planted in an empty limestone quarry by a Canadian. If anything, its influence is Italian.

And native plants? Since when is lavender native???

Posted by: Marie Viljoen at August 13, 2008 11:25 AM

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December 13, 2007

Inside Third & Bond: Week 17

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