StreetLevel: More Bread, Brawn on 5th Avenue

Hurray for bread! Looking forward to that.

Haven't tried GetFresh yet, but it's on my short list.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:37 PM

LOVE getfreshnyc.

stopped by on sunday and picked up the chicken breasts (delicious) and the beet salad.

i am impressed.

the space has a really terrific vibe as well.

i'm loving all this new stuff.

5th avenue is my favorite shoppping strip i think in all of nyc.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:39 PM

Mr. Joist. You can thank, in part, the condos going up on 4th Ave for this further development on 5th. Anticipation of a lot of new-spending folks with needs for amenities.

People rant endlessly that the condos don't look nice and yet they will probably end up doing a lot to improve the neighborhood.

And no, I'm not associated in any way with any of those new dwellings.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:39 PM

I have a feeling that these businesses are catering more to the 2-3 million dollar homeowners from 5th avenue to Prospect Park West, than they are the new, not yet moved in owners at Novo or Crest.

I welcome them all, but just sayin...

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:47 PM

"You can thank, in part, the condos going up on 4th Ave for this further development on 5th."

None of those are even finished or occupied. I don't think anticipation is the driver, but the people that are ALREADY here.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:52 PM

As an owner of a commercial building on 5th between 5th and 6th I remember how the area looked back in 1992 when I first bought the place. The transformation is nothing less then amazing. Now when I visit the building I actually hang out in the area instead of rushing back home.
I also agree with 2:39. although the condo's on 4th don't look as nice, they would definitly add traffic to the strip.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:56 PM

Brooklyn Bread, the rudest service in Carroll Gardens. And I'm fairly certain the owner is in deep with the mob because if he's not beaten up, the windows have been smashed in.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:57 PM

Wow, one Carroll Garden's bakery and one Cobble Hill Fitness Center! Who knows maybe Park Slope will be the new Cobble Hill/Carroll Gardens someday.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:58 PM

2:47. The number of people dwelling between 5th Ave and PPW is fixed. The newcomers are net adds that can support more of these business establishments.

And the $2-$3 million home-price comment is irrelevant. Are you implying because they live in high-priced houses means they spend more on Brookyn Bread? Like since they can afford it. they'll spend $50K a year on bread?

Plus, I pity the people who have to make the long hike from PPW down to 5th Ave to buy a loaf of bread.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 2:59 PM

I live near 7th avenue and spend most of my time on 5th avenue.

I prefer living closer to the Park, but still being a 5 minute walk to all these great things only a couple blocks away.

So happy to see all of these small shops opening.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 3:06 PM

3:06. So if you are five minutes from 5th ave and guessin you'd say five minutes in the other direction to the park, then people near 5th ave are 10 minutes from the park, which ain't bad. Better to be near the stores on 5th, which you use almost every day, than the park, which at best you go to once a week, on the weekend. (The little white lie is that most people - including those who live near the park and trumpet it endlessly - don't go to the park as often as they would like to think they do.)

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 3:15 PM

First of all...I'm sure some people lie about it...I agree. Whether or not I go to the park every day is irrelevant (although in the warmer months, I go almost every day...run there, hang out with friends, etc). I'm certainly there every Saturday and Sunday at the least besides the run. And one of my favorite things in Park Slope is going to the Greenmarket at GAP, which I roll out of bed and hit up nearly every Saturday.

But I just prefer living near the park in general. I like getting off the train at Grand Army Plaza after work and seeing trees and open space, I like that it's a little quieter and in general the blocks up near the park are prettier in my opinion. I just like it better.

That's not to say that I don't LOVE the stuff down on 5th...I DO! But for me personally I would rather live near a park, than a store.

I find the walk short and enjoyable and totally see why some people would prefer to live closer to the action. That's the beauty of life...everyone likes something different.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 3:22 PM

3:15, people with kids or a dog to walk may go to the park every day during most of the year. I live closer to 5th and prefer it for shops and train access, but I know my priorities aren't everyone's. It's nice to read an 'eastsloper' like 3:06 acknowledging the value of 5th ave for once. Don't knock them down for it.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 3:27 PM

Okay ....good news for Park Slopers. What restaurant is opening on Grand Ave and Fulton St in Clinton Hill on the corner?Anyone have the scoop?

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 3:28 PM

What's going on in PS is like what happened on the UWS of Mahattan. Yeah, the blocks close to central park have been desirable since whenever, and they still have a stuffy kind of old-school premium. But with the emergence of the UWS over the last 25-30 years, ALL of the action has been well west of the park.

The same thing, on a less grand level, is going on in PS. 7th ave basically sucks. The mansions near the park will keep their premium. But I'll venture to say that the center of gravity in the neighborhood will continue to shift toward 5th ave. "No way" cries the stalwart 8th Ave resident! But that's the same person who in 1980 thought the UWS didn't go much west of CPW.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 4:05 PM

North versus South. East versus West. "A Slope Divided." Next on The History Channel.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 4:10 PM

Rember in the movie 'Wall Street' when the Charlie Sheen charater sheepishly admits to renting on the west side to the real estate agent? That was 1987, pretty late in the game. And yet there was still a stigma, the upper west side was for college professors, communists and criminals.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 4:23 PM

You may be right, 4:05. And I think the center of gravity is/already shifted towards 5th in terms of what's "cool." But just like Central Park West, the blocks closest to the park will always be more expensive, in my opinion. A park like Prospect is a gem. There is one of them. As someone mentioned, there's 10 medicocre bagel shops.

The new 15 Central Park West would have sold at 25% lower prices had it been built on Columbus Avenue.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 4:49 PM

4.49pm. For trophy properties consumed by the super-rich or merely rich, park views are a virtue. That's why the Richard Meyer building is going up on grand army plaza.

But for real people, being near amenities and activity is key. And you can bet that Broadway and Amsterdam had plenty of lame bagel shops 20 years ago (probably still do) but the overall quality level of amenities improved a lot over the years. There's plenty of lame stuff on 5th now, but one day a Citerella will open there and it won't take 20 years.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 5:00 PM

I live right by this spot. This East-West Slope debate is stupid.

I love living near 5th Ave the way it is now, but of course for most people with money the park (and the kinds of houses near the park) will command a premium. That doesn't diminish my house; I'm glad to get a little more exercise walking to the park in return for a million-dollar discount on my house.

What I'd really like is to have the retail of 5th Avenue AND the proximity of the park. 7th Avenue I can do without. If only we could fold the neighborhood together and lose a couple blocks in the middle, that'd be perfect by me.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 5:05 PM

"Brooklyn Bread, the rudest service in Carroll Gardens. And I'm fairly certain the owner is in deep with the mob because if he's not beaten up, the windows have been smashed in."

agreed! seriously a bunch of morons working that counter. i guess all those old guys
sitting for hours of overpriced coffee keep it going somehow.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 5:11 PM

Please to god let's hope 5th avenue never turns into anything remotely resembling the upper west side retail-wise.

have you been there lately?

broadway looks like white plains mall these days...

we are lucky to still be getting a lot of "cute shit" as i like to call it in park slope.

even 7th...in the northern section and towards the southern section ain't half bad.

but 5th rocks! I don't find it lame in the least.

and i'm the "east slope" dweller.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 5:17 PM

WAIT Sky Realty and Maxwell Carpets closed!!! Who needs another bakery or gym...I loved the crappy apt listings and dilapidated carpet remnants those places had -there is just no edge to Brooklyn anymore, its like 1 big mall!

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 5:25 PM

"Brooklyn Bread, the rudest service in Carroll Gardens. And I'm fairly certain the owner is in deep with the mob because if he's not beaten up, the windows have been smashed in."

agreed! seriously a bunch of morons working that counter. i guess all those old guys
sitting for hours of overpriced coffee keep it going somehow.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 5:30 PM

"Maxwell Carpets closed!!!"

Two words: Hardwood floors.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 6:32 PM

honestly some people are quite naive. or maybe just a little ignorant.

i saw nothing but rants about brooklyn bread on here until 9:01. everything from the bagels tasting like ass to it being run by the mob.

do you have any idea how much it costs to rent a commercial storefront on 5th avenue and 5th street these days? it's something like 15 grand a month. no one is opening a 2nd store in a mom and pop chain unless they are extremely successful.

so fine. you don't like their bagels.

they are probably doing just fine without you given how difficult it is to run a small businesses these days.

and no, i have no vested interest in this place..i've never even been. just tryin to stick up for the little guy a little bit.

Posted by: guest at December 5, 2007 9:39 PM

extremely successful? Or mob money. Who's the one thats naive?

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 8:37 AM

One thing is sure, there are choices and if the quality isn't there, neither will they be for long. The bagels on 7th Ave and 5th St. are superior to just about everything else, so we'll see. The most tatseless and disgusting bagels currently reside in that place on 5th ave around 13-14 st. Was there once. Seems to be busy though, so maybe I am wrong about quality dictating longevity and sucess.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 9:11 AM

9:39 your rent figures (assuming a standard 20' wide storefront on 5th) are off by over 100% but dont let the facts stop your rant.

I have never eaten in Brooklyn Bread but your attitude is exactly why so many independent stores fail. If it is so difficult to run a store then the merchant should make sure the Bagels are virtually universally loved (not be indifferent as so many are).

People are so ridiculous when it comes to their analysis of local retail. In virtually every way the local merchant SHOULD have the advantage over the chain store (except capitalization).

Local storefronts rarely conform to the formula of strip mall born chains, local merchants can much better tailor their inventory to local tastes and niches, local merchants can more nimbly negotiate with landlords compared to national chains with standardized leases, indifferent attorney's and large bureaucracies. And finally publicly owned chains are under constant pressure to steadily increase same store sales and operating margins, which are concerns completely not shared by a family owned store.

Yet despite these economic realities time and time again we hear this nonsense posted here that the increasing wealth of the neighborhood automatically means more chain stores. However the only reason that this has been true is because of the arrogance and laziness of many local merchants who are unwilling to adapt to a new clientèle and/or provide even the lowest level of service and quality. Say what you want but we all know that the reality of most local merchants is far from "Mr. Hooper" and much closer to a bitter, resentful curmudgeon.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 9:23 AM

9:39 how do you know that the stores on 5th and 5th get $15,000 per month in rent?
does anyone know what the market rent (per sq foot) in that area is?

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 9:28 AM

you people are clueless.

yes, storefronts on 5th do get 15K per month.

you know how much a space this size rents for on broadway in the 90s??

35K A MONTH!!!

get caught up people. your homes tripled in value over the last 7 years.

SO DID RENTS!!!

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 11:01 AM

11:01 The purch is paying 6500 per month (signed in 2004 or 2005). the french resturant in the corner is paying around 2400 per month (signed a 30 yr lease in mid 90's after making a deal with the landlord to remove basement violations that amounted to around 100k). The chiro place is paying 3500 per month. ginger's bar around 3k per month.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 11:24 AM

11:01 - sorry but no standard size store 1500sqft or less gets anywhere near 15k on 5th Ave and I dare you to show me a single listing that proves this wrong.

You wont because you cant

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 11:27 AM

I am not sure I actually care how much they pay in rent. More concerned if if the product is good.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 12:33 PM

places up near bergen who signed leases in 2007 are paying 15K a month.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 12:36 PM

Let's not forget that the coffee is appalling at Brooklyn Bread, too, and the staff possessing the longest nails in the world (a health code violation, let's not forget) do not know how to make a cappuccino. This is not a nice mom and pop operation.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 1:23 PM

i can't wait till brooklyn bread opens!!!

love their BREAD!

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 1:41 PM

the last time I went to Brooklyn Bread after taking forever to put my sandwich in a bag the guy behind the counter threw it at me. THREW IT AT ME! I let it hit me and looked at him, like ??. He just turned around to keep up his conversation with some girl.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 1:58 PM

all of the brooklyn bread bashers are from one lonely person who was pissed they didn't give her enough attention when she came in for her bagel and cream cheese.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 2:13 PM

don't you know that it only takes one unhappy customer to do serious damage to a business. never let a customer walk out of your establishment unhappy. it just is not worth it.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 2:50 PM

yeah...you're right...it leads to bad things apparently...EXPANSION!!!

oh no!!!!

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 3:03 PM

Dear Brooklyn Bread Employee (i.e., 2.13), one doesn't need to be lonely or needy or a high maintenance New York poin-in-the-ass to know that place is awful and tacky and the staff worse.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 3:08 PM

the fact that you would assume i work at brooklyn bread shows just how needy you are.

some people like it. enough so that they are opening a 2nd store.

deal with it.

Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 3:29 PM

Ugh-this sounds awful! the Get Fresh place is horrendous-huge store with nothing in it! And, the few foods they do have are so expensive for what you are getting, what a waste of space!

Now, I was looking forward to this bread place opening, but after reading what everyone here has said, it sounds like it stinks too. Blech! I will miss maxwell Carpet, they did good rug cleaning.

Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 10:14 AM

Oh, and rents on 5th Avenue are NOT 15k per month, give me a break!

Posted by: guest at January 9, 2008 10:16 AM

Best Sandwhiches I ever tasted! I guess the bread makes it all happen. Prices could be a little less expensive but I love there stuff. Black and whites are out of this world. Good Luck Brooklyn Bread!

Posted by: guest at January 31, 2008 1:48 PM

i can't wait till brooklyn bread comes to 5th ave..right now i travel to their court street location for their delicious goodies because they truly are the best in brooklyn! Everything is great from their homemade brick oven breads, speciality sandwiches with the freshest ingredients...not to mention the baked goods. the black and white cookies are the BEST! the staff is great too, they know how i take my coffee before i even tell them. this blend of quality of product and service is exactly what park slope needs! i can't wait!!

Posted by: guest at February 3, 2008 7:48 PM

Love Brookyn Bread ...now the residents of park slope will get a taste of their sandwhiches. They better deliver! Service depends on the day lol but its worth it.

Posted by: guest at February 5, 2008 1:18 PM

THANK GOD WE WILL FINALLY HAVE A DESSERT PLACE IN PARK SLOPE. I ONCE TRIED THEIR CREAM PUFFS AND BLACK & WHITES....ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS DELICIOUS!!!!!!GOOD LUCK

Posted by: guest at February 6, 2008 11:32 AM