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December 17, 2007
Living in a Cobble Hill Townhouse/Time Capsule
Talk about old-school. According to the cover story in this weekend's City section, the house at 312 Clinton Street in Cobble Hill has been in the same family for five generations, and it's filled with mementos ("collections of bottled fainting remedies, thigh-high men’s socks, and mint-green sales slips for coal") and obsolete appliances, like an Easy brand washing machine built around 1940. The house was purchased in 1866 by the great-great-great-grandmother of its current resident, Nora Geraghty. Geraghty says the house's collection of antiques and lack of some modern amenities have occasionally made her feel like she couldn't "live a modern, normal life," but that the way it connects her to her family's past ultimately justifies the clutter and lack of some mod cons. “The way I feel about my great-great-grandmother,” says Geraghty, “my great-great-grandchildren will feel about me, unless New York is gone by the time they’re born. Because in a thousand years, this place will never be sold.” Are there readers who have been living in the same house as their ancestors and can relate to Geraghty's reluctance to change her property?
The Ghosts of Clinton Street [NY Times]
Photo of 312 Clinton by Kate Leonova for Property Shark.
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Comments
Ahh, the joys...and hardships...of multi-million dollar inheritances and found wealth.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:10 AM
Here we go .. another jealous renter
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:17 AM
If you read the article, the current owner would be renter too, if she didn't inherit the house. She’s a cook, I believe.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:20 AM
Great story. Based on ACRIS, her parents are the current owners. She probably pays a reduced rent.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:22 AM
Stoner:
Thanks for posting this. I read that story yesterday and just loved the fact that there are still some houses that have been occupied by the same family for generations.
For the rest of you: Don't hate the payers, hate the game!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:24 AM
the times real estate photographers are brilliant as always. "how do we convey that we are showing an old house in the modern era? i know, let's throw a laptop into the shot of the fireplace and piano!"
Posted by: z at December 17, 2007 9:46 AM
The past is best put behind us. Otherwise we become prisoners of people we never knew and who never knew us. The great thing about the US, and NYC in particular, is that you can start fresh, invent your own life. I have never inherited as much as a coffee pot, let alone a brownstone, so I cannot imagine what it might be like to live in an ancestor's house. It sounds pretty great as long as you put the ghosts in their place and take control of your own modern life.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:50 AM
my next door neighbors have a house identical to mine, and i recently found out their family is only the second set of owners (house built in 1915, they bought in 1935). i have begun a schmooze campaign to eventually get in there and see what's inside. so far all i've seen is their pristine main bannister.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at December 17, 2007 9:51 AM
I thought this was depressing. They should enjoy that house. The are being held captive by old corset ads?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 9:55 AM
I have the opposite of hoarder's syndrome. I enjoy throwing stuff out and giving it away.
It gives me a sort of boost.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:01 AM
Threw out 100 bags of.... WHAT?! I can only think of the historians and artifact collectors that just died a little reading this. I understand they couldn't keep it themselves but they should have contacted the Brooklyn Historical Society or other like minded organization. They probably would have been inundated w/people willing to clean the house for them.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:02 AM
Museums are very picky.
You cannot imagine how much century old junk exists in Brooklyn. Unless it is a rare artifact or it has a documented association with a famous person, like Walt Whitman or Abe Lincoln, forget it. It's junk. truly.
exceptions:
objects that are signed by famous makers (Tiffany, Rookwood, cartier, etc)
American oil paintings.
Sterling silver (weight value mostly).
worthless or near worthless:
china settings
books (exept rare editions)
clothes and accessories (shoes, umbrellas, hats, walking sticks)
letters, receipts and journals (unless from a historical figure)
bottles, patent medicines, souvenirs.
Old kitchen and bathroom appliances and fixtures.
I am referring to monetary value, personal or sentimental value is intangible.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:16 AM
If they are keep old advertisements and empty matchbooks, then their trash is TRASH!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:24 AM
Very weird.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:27 AM
"I came to know the house because my parents have known Ms. Geraghty’s parents for many years. Without the personal connection, her family might never have shown anyone their collections of bottled fainting remedies, thigh-high men’s socks, and mint-green sales slips for coal."
Thank God for the Times writer!!
I can't believe an editor actually approved those lines. The Times sucks my big toe.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:44 AM
This was actually a wonderful human-interest story, and they did a good job depicting the ambivalence of the later generations to inherit the Stuff and the House. I, too, winced when I read about the hundreds of bags, which is insane, since I too have cleared out the archives of a third-generation pack-rat auntie and tossed hundreds of bags. At some point, if the job is big enough, you just start tossing things in a bid for oxygen and survival. I suspect most of those bags held crap, and the good stuff was what they showed the photographer. However, very old letters, cards and other paper ephemera are craved by collage artists and scrapbookers, and it's nice to offer to freecycle them on Craigslist or the like.
Now, what made ME drool was the old stove...and the hearth...and most of all, their trove of bizarre family stories of death and dying (so like unto my own Irish ancestors, four generations away I can still tell you the manner of their gruesome deaths...)
Posted by: Brenda from Flatbush at December 17, 2007 10:55 AM
"However, very old letters, cards and other paper ephemera are craved by collage artists and scrapbookers, and it's nice to offer to freecycle them on Craigslist or the like."
Why on earth would anyone offer their PERSONAL letter and cards, no matter how old, to collectors? That's insane. It's still personal stuff.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:58 AM
My sister is sending my daughter a framed postcard her great grandmother sent in 1913 (how'd she get it back, is what I want to know?) for Xmas. I pointed out to sis I have a postcard of my own, sent my my kids great GREAT grandmother in 1907. I came to the realization that these are pieces of paper that have been SITTING AROUND IN PILES OF PAPER FOR A HUNDRED YEARS! It kind of makes you look at your Con Ed bill and think electronic billing might be the way to go.
The next time I find MY postcard, I will throw it out.
That said, I am still - and have always been - living with furniture I have been around since birth, belonging to this or that grandparent, great grandparent or great great grandparent.
It is no gift. I'd love to go down to West Elm and get something decent looking that I'd actually LIKE but 1) I can't throw it out. It's good quality stuff even though I hate most of it. 2) I can't throw it out because I am a little sentimental 3) I can't give it away because none of my cousins would come to NYC to pick it up and they're all white trash anyhow and won't treat it right.
You get paralyzed by the crap.
Now if any of my cousins is reading this, you know of course I didn't mean YOU : P
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:06 AM
9:10 - if they never sell (and that seems likely given the history of the family and the quotes) - essentially it is far from a multi-million dollar inheritance - its actually a very expensive liability.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:08 AM
I so agree, Brenda. I was also drooling over the stove and hearth, as well.
I think it's great to have a strong connection to the past. Keep what is meaningful, (and easy to keep or store) and let go of the rest. As much as I am a packrat, and keeper of stuff, I would have no problem donating, selling or giving away really old letters and papers, etc, provided they were just papers. Keep one receipt from the dairy, you don't need 10 year's worth, no matter how historical. There are people who would be very glad to have it, as Brenda states, so they aren't going in the trash. But after a while, a lot of stuff just needs to go. You can't let the past smother you.
On the other hand, having that history is certainly wonderful, and as an antiques lover, I'm sure they have some great pieces, made even more precious by the family connection.
It was an interesting piece, and I enjoyed it. Certainly more worthy than last week's whiney townhouse owners.
Posted by: Montrose Morris at December 17, 2007 11:15 AM
Sometimes, depending on the value of the house, the inheritance taxes are soo high that the inheritor must sell to pay the IRS (unless they have half a million dollars hanging around to pay taxes). This is a real scenario given the tremendous values of these little houses today. It isn't just the folks in Brooklyn Heights that need to look at estate planning and living trusts.
This young woman better get her dad to put the house in a trust, or she may not be able to hang on to it.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:19 AM
I'm sure it's already in a trust. They seem astute enough to have figured that out, especially if it's been through so many generations.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:41 AM
"I'm sure it's already in a trust. They seem astute enough to have figured that out, especially if it's been through so many generations."
-Don't be so sure. In the past it was probably below the tax-free limit, but today with appraisals in Cobble Hill in the 3 million dollar range, it puts the thing in a whole different ballgame. That is big-time wealth, and the IRS will tax it as such.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:49 AM
As a newcomer to the US I had the preconceived notion that Americans knew the price of everything and the value of nothing - but after reading this article it seems that at least some understand the value of things that have been touched, worn and breathed in for generations, played parts in peoples lives, were cherished, or just did their job very well without needing replacment.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:51 AM
Oh shut it, 11:51.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:55 AM
11:51
I'm so happy you thought Americans were vulgar, uneducated, and stupid. Lovely, thank you very much.
Welcome on board (you creep).
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:01 PM
Hey, folks, give 11:51 a break! S/he has a point, and it was eloquently put.
Posted by: Park Sloper at December 17, 2007 12:07 PM
11:51 may be a European snob, but that doesn't make her/him wrong. We do put a monetary value on everything, and appreciation of the past is kicked to the curb, over some cash, 8 times out of 10. Sad but true.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:22 PM
If 11:51 were a regular reader of Brownstoner, s/he would know that regular readers of this blog value absolutely EVERY building, appliance, fixture or door handle over 50 years old. You've found your soul mates here, chap!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:30 PM
having spent a great deal of time in Europe, think that Europeans over value old crap and bad plumbing.
yuck.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:32 PM
Europeans are among the biggest cheapskates and misanthropes in the world. For the right price, they would sell their grandmothers, let alone their grandmother's heirlooms. Puleeze.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:35 PM
11:06 - Sounds like its time to ditch the old stuff and get something that reflects you. Our place was full of stuff that that came from the "Early Mom & Dad" period. We recently renovated and gave everything we could away and threw out what no one wanted. Bought everything new (made some really happy salespeople). Now our place is ours. It feels much more comfortable when your home is filled with things you picked out.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:38 PM
"As a newcomer to the US I had the preconceived notion that Americans knew the price of everything and the value of nothing..."
What country are you from?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:52 PM
Well everyone has divined that I'm from Europe apparently... Must be some complex. There are other continents/countries in the world.
I don't wish to specifically divulge it because its too easy to attack. But if you think that the popular notion of a America abroad isn't based on (1) American movies and (2) the American president, then you are naive. Its exported pop culture from a culture, especially one with the cultural hegemony that the US has, that provides most people with the basis for an opinion. Of course the exported pop culture also provides us with the concept that Americans have a great sense of humor.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 12:59 PM
Europe would be so much nicer if it were like Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:07 PM
To all the people who've posted about how most--if not all--old things should be thrown away or modernized: WHY ARE YOU READING BROWNSTONER IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:10 PM
11:51 could be from Argentina.
They are really snooty and anti-American there too.
Argentina would be much nicer if it were more like Park Slope.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:15 PM
WHY ARE YOU READING BROWNSTONER IN THE FIRST PLACE?
Why is it that some numbskull is always questioning why someone else is reading brownstoner?
Get a clue. One does not have to pass some kind of ideological test to log on.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:38 PM
Yes, our beef is so much better than yours as well.
However, I understand Victorian gardeners, perhaps those in Park Slope, grew Pampas grass as an ornamental plant.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:39 PM
Well, the British owned Argentina then right?
They called it "The Argentine".
Its been all downhill since.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:59 PM
EUROPE will be worthless once AY is built!
Posted by: GHB at December 17, 2007 2:00 PM
1:10 because we love to buy old brownstones and gut them of any detail and turn them into marvels of minimalist style juxtaposed in a federalist setting.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:33 PM
My grandparents lived on the land that their grandparents literally slaved on. After "Freedom" our ancestors managed to purchase the land parcel by parcel from their previous slave owners who were destitute after the War. The Civil War era house on the property was rebuilt in the 1880's and that is the house sits vacant on the property now. My sister and I were sent South every summer and managed to explore avery acre of that land but we can not see living there. We do not feel that we owe it to our ancestors who lived, toiled and died on that land to live there. We have honored their memory by becoming the educated, socially and financially responsible adults that we are. We pass that on to our kids and to the numerous kids in our community who we have fostered or sponsored in one way or another. A major portion of the land will be sold. The house will be used as a museum for that county's African American History. We are at peace with that.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:44 PM
Brownstoner:
I got a kick out of this article.
Those of your readers who are new to the city may not realize that New Yorkers don't move as frequently as outsiders think, and that there are many of us who live in the houses and apartments where our parents and grand parents once did, or at least nearby. Members of my family have lived in Park Slope across four generations (making us original "brownstoners"); good friends in Brooklyn Heights and Gramercy Park live in the same places where they grew up, raising their own families. And it may not be widely known, but apartment buildings can have ghosts. (The closets in my co-op occasionally rattle with the spirits of dead relations -- I'm convinced!)
There's something nice about the continuity of parsing through generations' of family possessions and mixing them with one's own in the "city that's never finished." For those of us whose families have lived here long enough, New York is different but not that different from the way it was 100 and more years ago. And in our family's voices, it's still possible to hear the accents and intonations of the grand parents and great parents we knew and loved and who connect us with the mid-19th Century.
Nostalgic on Park Avenue
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:06 PM
"Well everyone has divined that I'm from Europe apparently... Must be some complex. There are other continents/countries in the world."
I'm 12:52. I figured you might not be from Europe, unlike most of the one-note types who post (wine, cry, complain, bait) here. You sound intelligent enough to know that popular culture only addresses select aspects of any society. Stay in America ling enough, meet some poeple, and you lamy learn that the American society is more richly diverse than you believe.
Oh - and you won't find real diversity on BROWNSTONER, that's for sure.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:13 PM
Has anyone placed a house like this in an estate trust? How expensive is it to do that? Do you have to pay transfer tax when you pass it to a trust? I'm guessing you do, that's a bundle right there.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:54 PM
This is the worst and most obnoxiously inept degeneration of a thread ever.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 6:24 PM
Well it wasn't, 6:24, until you contributed. Now it's etched in frickin' GRANITE.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 7:06 PM
It was that pretentious Argentinian that killed the thread.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 8:38 PM
We need someone from Franz Josef Land to resusciate it. One of the unpretentious ones.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 11:40 PM
come see my house, my kids are 6th generation in this property since 1900? who gives a rats ass
nice old welsh cottage built over the top of a earlier long cottage, original fireplaces and ranges throughout
nice
Posted by: guest at January 22, 2008 6:52 AM
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