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December 17, 2007
House of the Day: 64A Clifton Place
The photo of 64A Clifton Place speaks for itself—Beautiful old Clinton Hill brownstone fallen on hard times. The listing for the 18-by-40-foot house says there are a few original doors left in the place, but overall you're looking at a complete gut job. The house is asking $899,000, or about $300 a foot. (Quite an uptick from the $425,100 it traded for back in 2005. Interestingly, the current owner took out a $650,000 mortgage from a private non-bank lender back in April of this year.) What do you think a reasonable price for the gut reno would be? $500,000?
64A Clifton Place [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
What does a similar house in good condition go for in this neighborhood?
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 1:41 PM
what i wanna know is, how did we miss this when it was for sale in 2005? even then, for a house like this, $425K would have been a suspiciously good deal.
Posted by: Jimmy Legs at December 17, 2007 1:41 PM
i can't imagine anyone will buy this for a penny over 500K.
doesn't even look as though the facade is worth salvaging.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:47 PM
I thought the same thing as jimmy legs. 2005 isn't that long ago -- what agency sold this house the first time around? Highly doubt it was corcoran.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:49 PM
$500K if you are lucky. this place clearly needs everything.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:53 PM
There's a SWO from May of this year on it.
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/OverviewForComplaintServlet?requestid=2&vlcompdetlkey=0000889614
Also DOB has it listed as an SRO as well. Lot's of paperwork for the new owner to deal with as well as the reconstruction.
Maybe it's worth $550k but not much more.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 1:54 PM
900K? All I can say is ha.
Owner should be happy with profit from 500K. . . Didn't do anything and made 20% in 2 years. Take that and call it a day.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:00 PM
this picture makes clinton hill look like the scariest place on earth.
of course we all know it's the best neighborhood in bklyn, however.
cough cough.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:01 PM
I have to say, Corcoran's brand has been damaged by their incredible expansion into Brooklyn. I used to think of them as a semi-high-end firm but they've blanketed Brooklyn with new offices and mediocre listings.
As a brownstone owner, if I ever sell, I'm not sure I would go with Corcoran for brand and other reasons.
Also, in my opinion, a gut reno on a 3-storey 18x40 is around $500k BEFORE you add in the new mechanicals, new roof, façade repair, repointing, etc. Probably closer to $750k+ all in.
Posted by: Mr Joist at December 17, 2007 2:02 PM
Well... Lookie here another greedy asshole. There is one thing? Where are you going get your mortgage at??!!! Lending is very bad now. The asshats who loaned money on shit like this is getting assraped on Wall St now. Good luck, Fuck
The What
omeday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:03 PM
There is a certain economy of scale when you go in and do everything at once. Meaning all new plumbing, electrical, hvac, structural, and finishes. It should not be more than $500,000 unless one keeps changing one's mind and creating change orders or one wants to recreate the state rooms of the Normandy or something. It will take time though, and time is money. You will also neeed to figure another 60,000 or so for architecture fees and filing fees. Don't expect the work to be completed in under a year.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:05 PM
Cont.. Watch this video on the Toxic shit in Brooklyn. These people have no idea how bad it is.
Toxic Brooklyn. If the like don't work, use google.
http://www.vbs.tv/player.php?bctid=742311878&bccl=NzQxODkxOTgxX19ORVdT
The What
Someday this war is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:07 PM
You tell'um, The What!
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:08 PM
Hey browstoner- The What is perfectly entitled to his opinon, but do you ever draw the line on how far people take their language on the site? When people start throwing rape terms lightly into a tirade, maybe you want to step in.
There are plenty of people who'll now curse at me for bringing it up- bring it on. Go ahead and defend using casual rape references in common conversation.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:21 PM
I saw a post with the word "negro" in it get deleted this morning after it was up for like 5 minutes.
That is the problem with censorship - Either its all OK or none of it is. Mr. Brownstoner should not be editing content lest he risk his site becoming the Big Brother Blog.
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 2:29 PM
2:21, I support your opinion.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:32 PM
2:29, Stuff it with your censorship.
This is not a state operated website. Mr. Stoner has every right to refuse to put up anything that is vulgar or offensive, just like any good newspaper or magazine.
I wish he used a stricter standard myself.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:33 PM
It's not censorship when you own the forum. This isn't a newspaper or news organization. The What could have his own site if he chose to.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:34 PM
Fawning over brownstone buildings is vulgar. It should censored out of this website's content.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:36 PM
The thing is- if people hate what The What has to say, they should tell the owner of the site. If they like it and come here to read it- then fine. Brownstoner makes money by letting people post and selling ads. We should have a say over what gets posted.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:36 PM
If you can buy a livable two family (probably not a brownstone, but probably a brick) in another neighborhood like south south slope or gowanus for instance, why would you buy this and put more into it than it would be worth to sell?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:39 PM
The What's opinion is a cliche, hence irrelevant.
Now, using a racial/racist term, on the other hand, still packs a punch. thank god.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 2:40 PM
Im not saying he shouldnt censor, it is his site after all. Im just saying once you get into the game of censoring, it can be very difficult to siphon out what is appropriate and not appropriate. Especially when you are dealing with hundreds or thousands of posts a day.
Today, you say "rape" is not appropriate (Even though it was in a completely non-sexual way, Look up the definition sometime) Tomorrow, I think no-one should say "shit", then no curses at all, nothing racist, nothing against low-income people, etc., etc.
I was repeatedly called a yuppie on a forum post earlier today - Where is Mr. Browncensor to ride to my rescue?
Censorship is never the right thing unless someone is being threating or violently abusive. It is a dangerous road that way too many people are all too willing to go down.
Posted by: newsouthsloper at December 17, 2007 2:47 PM
"We should have a say over what gets posted."
Yes. On your own site, but not here.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:08 PM
Very scary looking POS.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:08 PM
Looks like a prime candidate for a tear-down.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:08 PM
I think the What is entitled to his opinion, I just wish he would express it less often. But what is with "Asshat"? Did the What invent that one? Never heard it before.
Posted by: Brooklynnative at December 17, 2007 3:23 PM
Scary? Just looks typically neglected.
300 sq ft is not bad for a gut reno. 200 - 250 however is the norm, since the asking price for townhouses in the area is around 400-450/sq ft.
If they bring the price down to 750,000, it's a good investment. I love this part of Clinton Hill.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:24 PM
It will languish on the market for many months until some small time developer will buy it for 700K.
They will spend 150K-200K cheaply renovating and split it into 3 condos averaging 500K each. They will then handily pocket 400k - 600K in about 2 years.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:36 PM
Sure- 750K would be great. That would make sense. 900- not so much. Can't you buy a nicely redone one for around 1.1 or 1.2 in this area?
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:39 PM
agree 750,000 and this thing will be of the market tomorrow...
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:47 PM
Would love to hear Brownstoner actually comment on why he likes to have 'The What' post his inanity about buying gold and a*srape. He's taken plenty of posts down in the past for lots different reasons. It's not censorship-- it's his site.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:48 PM
I find it funny that you bitch and moan over my post. But America is going down the drain and no one comments on that. Give me a break!
We are acing the worse credit crisis in our lifetimes. When the new year comes around we will be in FULL MELTDOWN! This is no hype but real. So suck up you pussies and man up!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end.....
BTW Look at the Toxic Brooklyn Movie. Shows what ASSHATS we have here.
http://www.vbs.tv/player.php?bctid=742311878&bccl=NzQxODkxOTgxX19ORVdT
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 3:56 PM
Whoo Whoo Lookie here! More Assholes. Brownstoner should do a asshole of the week segment. LMMFAO!
Mortgage-Relief Plan
Divides Neighbors
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119785633408932917.html
Oh Wait! This part is rich!
The Oropezas arrived at Calle Canon Road in 2004. Corona appealed to them because of its quality of life and regional cachet. "It was labeled as the new Orange County," Mrs. Oropeza says. Public records show they paid $557,000 for a four-bedroom house and took out a $500,000 mortgage. Her husband is an area manager for an auto-parts retailer and she is a purchasing manager for a firm that sells dietary supplements.
As property values skyrocketed, they refinanced three times, most recently in late 2006, for $835,000, Mr. Oropeza says.
The couple say they used some of the money they pulled out of the house for home improvement, such as a backyard waterfall. But Mr. Oropeza says the bulk was used to pay off credit-card arrears. "We were in a vicious cycle of refinancing our home to get out of debt," he says. "We banked on selling the house, but that's where we failed."
Yes you do phail asshat.
What you say the What! The Wall Street Journal! I thought it was Alex Jones or something.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:22 PM
gosh, Clinton Hill hasn't changed one bit.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:22 PM
The housing market is a disgrace when a shell is listed for $899.
Yes, it's a shell, when you have to completely gut the place.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 4:23 PM
Yep--this house is pretty much a shell. And it's a small shell.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 5:15 PM
i don't think it's even a shell.
the outside looks like it's falling down.
it's half a shell for almost a million bucks.
clinton hill a little high on itself.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 5:20 PM
Clinton Hill extremely high on itself. Enough is enough.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 6:30 PM
Worry not, kids. A major correction is brewing.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 7:30 PM
This place shouldn't be more than $300K. Just shows you how the market is all fucked up.
And The What is right, America is going down the drain.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 8:17 PM
I don't think this little house qualifies as a "beautiful old Clinton Hill brownstone", even in its heyday.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 8:22 PM
I think this was a beautiful house but the area was really really degraded back prior to the 1990's. It was a slum. Houses were neglected for decades, and anyone who has ever owned a house knows you cannot neglect them even for a year. This house can be restored and it will be a gem. But the asking price is ridiculous, they are selling sixty years of neglect, abuse, and deferred maintenance.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 8:30 PM
this place is the definition of a dump..absolute crap, crapola, st crapious, and POS. Shame on cocoran for trying to milk this. This is half a shell and is not worth more than 500k. At their current ask and gut renovation of about 200K per floor plus facade work you can easily buy a completed 4 storey on a better block.
Posted by: guest at December 17, 2007 10:50 PM
To all of the above and THE WHAT. Mr. Brownstowner puposely uses this listing as a house of the day or week to get you all going against one another. Guess he suceeded again. Your not dreaming your on brownstowner.
Posted by: guest at December 18, 2007 7:50 AM
"Where are you going to get your mortgage at?"
Where did you learn to speak English (at)??
Try "Where are you going to get your mortgage?"
When are you going to stop posting at?
Posted by: guest at December 18, 2007 8:50 AM
Wait a year and the owner will be begging for his original $425,000. But I suspect it will be broken out into rental apartments.
Posted by: Steve at December 18, 2007 10:50 AM
Can anyone explain this? If the place sold for $425K in 2005, how/why would the seller be able to take out a $650,000 mortgage this year without doing any work?
Posted by: iwannabrownstone at December 18, 2007 1:30 PM
You could by this one which is larger 2 blocks closer to Ft. Greene and is in move in condition for the same price. The best part is that it is listed by Corcoran as well. Are they picking numbers out of a hat?
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?ListingID=1091709&Region=NYC
Posted by: guest at December 18, 2007 6:17 PM
"Are they picking numbers out of a hat?"
I suspect the source is about 2-3 feet lower.
Posted by: guest at December 18, 2007 6:31 PM
Hey 617, we appreciate the effort but the listing you've posted is much further away from Fort Green and is in fact in the middle of Bed Stuy. Went to see it myself..it is located opposite that park (Von King?).
I do agree that this POS is not worth more than 500K tops!
Posted by: guest at December 18, 2007 6:31 PM
I looked at the house in 2004-2005 before it sold for $425. The owner was an old woman living in a senior home upstate NY (I believe Rochester) and her relatives did not physically or financially maintain the house. Looking to cash out, her relatives hired a (shaddy) attorney sold the house in an inside deal to a schnook who emptied out the old furniture and never again lifted a finger to renovate it. The records of "odd" transactions and mortgages are par for the course with this house.
Posted by: guest at December 19, 2007 2:43 PM
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