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bummer

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 8:55 AM

No doubt, Spitzy screwed up, but are we really counting the Post as news?

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 9:43 AM

I don't get why people in Bed Stuy are conveniently forgetting the Khiel has mugged people at gunpoint, WAS armed (with knives) and attacked officers and declared himself, several times, to be armed with a gun.

It is really tragic and sad but I don't have much sympathy for the guy. And I would feel much more sympathetic for the family if they didn't immediately get a lawyer - I foresee a lawsuit against the city.

The most tragic thing about this is people are politicizing it so immensely.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 11:04 AM

Is is more than sad that those who are suppose to 'protect and serve' continue to murder. It is even more tragic that we as a society think that as long as the children/men don't resemble our sons, brothers or husbands that it is acceptable or at the very least just one less black face to worry about. People we need to elevate ourselves and our society, murders by police officers more reprehensible than murders by thugs. Another sad day in America.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 11:07 AM

What confuses me is that a week ago a 13 year old boy was stabbed to death in the same neighborhood by two thugs. It's funny how there was no "community uproar" over that incident. As usual, the incident must fit into an "oppressor/victim" model for people to become outraged.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 12:06 PM

Wrong, 12:06 - the community is plenty upset, and is pressing for answers. The media is no longer covering it, so it must not therefore exist.

We are not all involved in the oppressor/victim mentality, but you would have to live in the community to see that.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 12:24 PM

11:04 and 12:06,
Take heed to the comments by 11:07 and 12:24

Why are you so comfortable with this, that you could even fathom a plausible excuse???

It is sad indeed!

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 12:36 PM

I am NOT comfortable with it. As a black man and a lifelong resident of BS, I have seen this pattern over and over. If a cop or a white person kills a black resident, people are suddenly up in arms, but if a black person kills a black person, then people shrug their shoulders and move on. It's a damn shame that when this hypocrisy is highlighted, people respond by (1) assuming that you don't live in the community (12:24) and (2) that I am comfortable with a cop shooting and killing a mentally-ill teenager (12:36).

By the way, how is the community pressing for answers?

And 11:07, what did you mean by "murders by police officers more rephrensible than murders by thugs"?

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 2:09 PM

I agree that this is a very tragic situation, but think the fact that this young man's own mother thought he had a gun gives some legitimacy to police actions in this situation. If his mother thought he was a danger to others, why should police have assessed the situation differently? It seems they should have been able to immobilize him rather than many officers shooting him to death. More than a racial issue, this seems to me to be about how police are trained to handle people who are mentally ill.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 4:14 PM

Here's an idea. Stop doing things that would actually make you a crime suspect. It could actually lead to a productive life.

The mother said he had a gun. Should the police have run up on him to figure out that he was running to brush his hair versus running to fire a weapon. Not the most practical.

Don't get me wrong. I regret the taking of an innocent life. However, the police are not MAKING people behave in a criminal (or otherwise resembling a criminal) manner. This goes for hooded guys on street corners, disrespectful kids on the subway, or anyone else who thinks they can act a fool and just "get a break."

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 4:28 PM

Yes, 4:14 and 4:28.

The mother should have saved all of the trouble of calling in the 'professionals' to handle what they are trained to do, and shot the child herself.

Fact - It is highly uncommon for the cops to draw guns in a white nieghborhood. Fact - Cops don't usually arrive @ domestic disputes with guns drawn or even in the mindset of shooting in white neighborhoods.

So you are right it is not a black or white racial thing, it's a fact thing - and it needs to stop.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 5:15 PM

2:09 wins, hands down. That is astute, I am glad to be your neighbor. It is entirely possible to acknowledge the complexity of this situation, and deny the easy templates people are wanting to push over it.

This kid was not innocent! He was (it seems at this point) purposely acting in a manner that would get him shot!

However you slice it, twenty bullets (about 5 bullets per cop) is fucking outrageous, and 5:15 is right that it wouldn't go down like this in a nice/white neighborhood.

There are no vigils about black-on-black crime. Al Sharpton could not give a rip about black-on-black crime, because he is busy exploiting the race war!

The whole situation is so ugly. Ugly on all sides, ugly because it shows us all how far we have to go. All of us. Police, citizenry, everyone.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 6:01 PM

what i don't get is the first thing that the media (read also people unable to think for themselves) jumps on is purported behavior.

when women are raped... (what was she wearing? where was she? what was the hour?)

when black men are gunned down by anyone... (was he a criminal? did he have a job? has he ever been to jail?)

asking these ?'s as if somehow if any of these things applied that then the brutal voilence committed against them is justified.

in a civil society it is never ok rape, kill or maime simply based on past behavior.

how are "peace officers" giving the right to be judge, jury and executioner. it is wrong, dreadfully wrong.

and 2:09 -
if you truly beleive that "if a black person kills a black person, then people shrug their shoulders and move on"

you are holding a mirror to yourself and not the community, and you perhaps as a result of being surround by this madness for far too long have become desensitized.

it is again simply because it does not make the 5'oclock new does not mean people are not outraged, and simply because al sharpton does not show up does not mean people are not outraged. as a society we have lowered our expectations of how we expect humans to be treated.

2:09 you should be outraged that you are not outraged at these things... because your degrees and success may not be enough of a distance to sheild you with your black skin from the bullets pouring out of a "peace" officers instrument of "peace"

it is simply sad. and all that are not outraged by this how would you feel if it was much closer to home - i'd wager that you would feel diffrently, but then again, your privilege makes such situations so remote that you could not even fathom it.

people lets elevate. a call for help ends in death... WTF???????

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 7:19 PM

Most police officers do not get up and come to work thinking "I think I'll kill a black kid today." There might be some out there who do, but they are few and far in between. The problem is that many officers coming into the city to work from suburban areas are not used to dealing with diverse communities and have no social interaction in urban communities. They tend to view urban communities of color as " the other." It is true that most of them would be more hesitant to draw a weapon in a white community on a white perp because they subconsciously relate to the white perp as brother, son, sister, father, cousin etc... and therefore give them a benefit of the doubt that may buy the perp an extra second or two which could be life altering. Imagine if the officers in the Bronx actually realized that Amadou Diallo actually had a wallet or that this mentally ill child had a brush and not a gun. That one or two seconds hesitation could have saved lives. On the flip side, as a retired African American officer, I have often hestitated in situations where if I hedged the wrong bet, my life could have easily been taken. Like many of my white co-workers, I was raised in a middle class neighborhood but I socialized with people of color and I do identify with the people that I cross during the course of my tour. I have come across white co-workers who were socialized around people of color or in urban environments and you can tell because they are much more comfortable in communities of colors. These issues can be addressed by recruiting city kids while they are in high school to join the Department and of course raising the salary. In this particular case I don't think that the officers were wrong, although the whole thing is extremely disturbing. Dealing with EDP's - Emotionally Disturbed Person's is difficult and we rely heavily on the information given by family members. I don't make excuses for "bad cops" or their bad decisions but what would you have done? Now that doesn't mean that the Department doesn't need to review policy regarding EDP's to see what type of new technology or tactics might assist in future similar situations. I thought that my co-workers were wrong in the Diallo, Dorismond, Stansbury and other cases but I would have probably done the same in this one because I'm sure you've all heard before the saying "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six."

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 8:50 PM

the problem 8:50 as you so clearly state is that you believe that it was ok, better him than me because i was issued this gun and i can shoot and the presumption of duty is on my side. cowardly! shameful! pityful!

how often do police officers really get tried by 12 as they often make provisions for six to carry their cowardly acts.

don't hide behind the badge, live up to it.

you are not better, we are all human. a city issued gun and instant courage! sickening!

and all of that while know police work is extremely difficult. you all are so poorly trained. this madness needs to stop.

Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 9:31 PM

8:50 here.
This shooting was not okay and I clearly did not say that it was okay! Nor did I say that I was better because I have a gun which I didn't usually carry when not at work. I won't say off-duty because cops are by NYS Penal law never off duty and MUST take action where crimes are concerned. You surely don't understand what it was like to walk in my shoes and I am certain that you don't have the courage to do what I did for 22 years especially for what they paid us. I served in the Gulf War because I signed up for ROTC to get me through college. When my reserve unit was activated, I had just weaned my daughter and had to leave her with my husband to ship off to a no man's land. I never though that when I signed up for the reserves that I would actually have to go to a war zone. But I did and didn't complain because I made the decision to do reserve duty. When I returned to work I made an effort to ensure that I didn't view my working environment as war zone because that would be detrimental to the city that I served. Many cops do though and that goes back to their biases. Believe it or not, the NYPD are most highly trained cops in the country. We have Departments come from all over the world to model what we do. That may be a sad state of affairs for the country, but it is what it is. There is always room for improvement. I clearly stated that situations like the taking of this childs life must be reviewed to see how both civilians and officers lives can be preserved in future incidents. I guess you didn't read where I said that so many times I hesitated in using my firearm, giving a perp the benefit of the doubt, only to find out that the perp was armed and could have taken my life. Everyone, cops included have the right to self- preservation. The majority of the officers killed in the last couple of years have been African American or Latino. It might be because we give the benefit of the doubt and don't see the communities where we work in the same way as white officers. Our families live in these communities. Most of the cops that get shot via friendly fire are also people of color. I support 100 Blacks in Law Enforcement who as an organization has spoken out about police shootings and other issues concerning policing in communities of color. The former Prseident Eric Adams is now serving in the state assembly and trying to address some of these issues. I as did many other law enforcement officers worked on his campaign because we care about our communities. Other volunteers in the organiztion go out into communities of color to train kids on how to respond when interacting with police in various situations. It is a shame that this has to be done but this is a reflection of a broader societal issue. So please YOU stop the madness with the stupid slogans like "city issued gun instant courage" and do something to help like I did for 22 years and am still doing!

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 10:26 AM