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November 7, 2007
Prospect Heights Watering Hole Getting the Boot
A neighborhood fixture on Flatbush is about to serve its last pint, according to a thread on Brooklynian. Mooney's Pub has been served with an eviction notice because of a dispute with its landlord about a rent hike. Many people commenting on the thread are mourning the impending loss of the bar, and there’s plenty of speculation that a chain like Starbucks is going to take its place:
I'm sure they're hoping that American Apparel's good buddies at Starbucks or some such place will take over the location. It makes me nauseous. For me, this is a tremendous loss of a lovely neighborhood gathering spot. It may not be the hippest or the most glamorous, but it's such a great place to meet and talk to your neighbors - people from all backgrounds gather there and actually interact with one another. I have met some wonderful people there who I now count amongst closest friends.
Aside from the American Apparel and a couple of bank branches, though, this stretch of Flatbush has hardly become a haven for chains. Think a national retailer’s really gonna be sweet on this spot?
Mooney's Evicted! Same evil landlord as Royal Video [Brooklynian] GMAP
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Comments
Please, please, please let's stop Flatbush from becoming another 7th Avenue. Sure a few cutsie shops would be great, but we don't need a Starbucks (agree--it's only a matter of time) and 25 other overpriced "accessory" stores.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:38 AM
Oh NO! Not Mooney's. That is the most perfect bar. Anybody could go in there and get a drink and feel comfortable. The best mix of everybody drank at Mooney's. Boo.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:45 AM
Wasn't Mooney's once on 7th Ave and moved to Flatbush in the mid-80s (another rent issue). Anybody remember the cross-street where it was?
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:46 AM
Wow. My football team has been going to Mooneys after our games since the mid nineties. There have been a lot of changes to this stretch of Flatbush over the last few years, but I'm sure they could afford the new rent if they just raised the price of each pint a little bit. It would be a unfortunate for them to have to close down. They need to bite the bullet and pass the costs on to their customers if that's what they have to do to survive.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at November 7, 2007 9:48 AM
Here's a crazy idea: Go to Mooney's. Tell him you want him to stay. Say you'll gladly pay an extra buck a pint if he'll pay the market rent and make a deal with his landlord. Then, actually return to Mooney's and pay the extra buck a pint.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 10:03 AM
It's important to note, as the original poster on the site said,
"Mr. Mooney received an eviction notice on October 30th, giving him 30 days to get out. Apparently, the landlord raised the rent from $4000 to $7000 and Mooney countered with an offer of $6000. The response he received was the eviction notice. "
I think their counter offer was very reasonable. The response by the owners is not.
Eviction? It's obvious the building owners just want them out so they can make a profit renting the space to someone else.
Posted by: Mamacita at November 7, 2007 10:13 AM
um ... does it matter that the mooney's owners have kept the place insular and isolated lo these many years by being exclusive? exlusive, you say, how can that be? well, for starters, if they don't know you, be prepared for the old west saloon staredown; you're not good enough if you're a STRANGER. god forbid you're a stranger of a color darker than beige.
some community service. my husband (white, and born and raised in PH) calls them "irish donkeys who consider themselves a cut above everyone else".
me, i call it a worthless old man dive bar, and if that's what ya'll call something that's important for the community, well, good on ya', and goodbye.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 10:15 AM
Not that I'm ever happy to see a bar close, but when did a landlord's decision to raise the rent -- on a bar, bookstore, or whatever -- become subject to negotiation?
Either the bar raises its prices to pay the rent, or it goes away. Capitalism ain't so bad.
Posted by: Emigre at November 7, 2007 10:25 AM
I'm sorry if that's been your experience at Mooney's Anon 10:15, but I've definitely had a much better one.
Almost every Saturday afternoon since 1996 my football team has stomped into Mooney's dirty, gnarled and very often muddy - and been treated like family. While a few of us are of the paler skinned variety, most of us are not, and after playing football in Prospect Park in January for four hours, we are some the ugliest, scariest people this side of Jersey. We were strangers the first time we went there, and we have always been treated hospitably, even when wearing cleats and soaking wet.
Just because your husband is a bigot (Irish Donkeys?) doesn't mean everyone else is.
Posted by: Shahn Andersen at November 7, 2007 10:36 AM
You must not run your own business 10:25. The free market system is about negotiation. There is a cost to finding a new tenant that the owner has to consider when looking at that offer of $6000 a month.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 10:38 AM
7000 a month is still quite reasonable. especially for a busy strip like flatbush.
places on 7th ave command upwards of 15K a month. same thing with 5th avenue.
i believe even more than that in some locations.
he's a fool not to renew for 7K.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 10:42 AM
Who cares that a bar is closing? No big loss.Now a few livers will be happy.Great news.Not like it is a book store or health store closing, something that does your body and mind good.Good riddance.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 10:48 AM
10:15, give it a rest. they might be assholes sometimes, but they're assholes to everyone. say what you will about Mooney's, it's never been a race thing in there.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 10:54 AM
10:15 here. "they might be assholes sometimes, but they're assholes to everyone" is not a ringing endorsement.
to shahn - my husband is irish. toodles!
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:05 AM
Mamacita,
Why is "Sorry, I want to make as much money as the market will allow off the thing I am selling / renting" not a reasonable response?
Is the Key Food up the street obligated to charge less than it can get for oranges? Is Mooney's obligated to charge less than it can get for a beer?
If Mooney responded to the eviction notice by offering $7K and still got the brush-off, I'll agree that's obnoxious. Otherwise, this just sounds like two businesses that couldn't agree on a price.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:08 AM
i'm not saying they deserve a ringing endorsement. But that doesn't mean they deserve to be labeled as racist either. label them rude or incompetent or unprofessional or whatever, but don't try to act like they went out of their way to be rude to black or brown folks or whatever....but granted, the service sucked. not sure why I'm even defending them.....
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:27 AM
11:05--I know what you mean and you're absolutely right.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:37 AM
I remember going there in the early 90's. On Saturdays, they would have "live music," which sometimes involved a guy on an accordion. It's just a friendly neighborhood bar. Sorry to see it go. I'd rather see Jackie's 5th Amendment go then Mooney's. Now, THAT's a dive.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:47 AM
Oh wow .
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:52 AM
Waah, the LL wants to raise my rent so I can sell addictive, destructive alcohol at 400% markup to a bunch of working stiffs - its not fair waahh.
The $3000 a rent increase amounts to $100 a day ; if they sell an average of 200 drinks a day (which isnt much) raise the price by .50 cents and its covered.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:54 AM
I don't think a Starbucks would survive on this stretch. They certainly didn't survive in the Atlantic Terminal (only a few blocks away), which seems like it would have been a shoo-in. This stretch of Flatbush is pretty dreary and has way too many barbershops/hair salons/hair-braiding shops. Let's get something useful in there.
Posted by: North Sleeper at November 7, 2007 12:04 PM
Starbucks is surviving just fine in Atlantic Terminal
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:14 PM
There has been a Starbucks in Atlantic Terminal for years. Not sure what you're talking about, 12:04.
And this bar is between 7th and 8th Avenues on Flatbush. I don't think you know where that is.
What's on this stretch is a Crunch Gym, a fancy gourmet Key Food, a Chase Bank, a Blockbuster...
Very few hair braiding or barbershops around this area.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:17 PM
theres alot of black people in mooneys.
how is it a racist irish bar?
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:20 PM
the key food sucks
Natural Land is better but has no meat, which is what sucks about Key Food.
both are 24/7 however.
and I would rather not see one of the stupid lounges like Sugarland or that one next to the sushi place go there.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:29 PM
"if they don't know you, be prepared for the old west saloon staredown; you're not good enough if you're a STRANGER. god forbid you're a stranger of a color darker than beige."
The dude is right. That place is an insider's bar. Not necessarily racist in my opinion, but definitely a "Who the hell are you?" type of atmosphere in there.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:31 PM
turn it into a gay bar.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:36 PM
Here are the things this area needs:
1. Butcher
2. Cheese shop
3. Fish store
4. Gay bar
5. Ethiopian restaurant
6. Pizza Hut
Sorry, I love the pan pizza.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:42 PM
Pizza Hut is disgusting.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:44 PM
how bout one of those europan cafe's they have in manhattan?
or an au bon pan or le pan quotidien?
europan's are open 24 hours. could be good for the other 24/7 businesses around there...
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 12:47 PM
Gay bar. Oh yeah!
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:18 PM
That whole corner (7th, Flatbush, Carleton) right up to Mooney's needs to be redeveloped with a tastefully designed but larger mixed-use retail/residential building. I could care less about the Wing Wagon, the Japanese place, the chinese/mexican place, and the uses on the other side (the "barber" shop, the muffin shop, etc.) Though I will concede I like the Spanish restaurant - very cute waitresses. It’s a great variance case for extra floor area too because of the triangular shape. This part of Flatbush should become the template for the rest of it heading downtown (i.e. decent retail/restaurants) versus check cashing/drug rehab/hair salon and other sub-par uses. Though I guess some riff-raff hanging around might keep the baby stroller crowd from making Flatbush too much like 7th. Bottom line is this will all be market driven, and absent a million man march to Borough Hall to save places like Mooney's, that's just the way it goes.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:20 PM
Big Daddy's would have been a better locale for a gay bar...
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:23 PM
Little Miss Muffin rocks! Great cookies and Jamaican patties.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:24 PM
I actually think the space next to Park Cafe on 7th between Berkeley and Union is an excellent spot for a gay bar.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:31 PM
I like Flatbush being a little grittier. We already have 7th and 5th Avenues.
Why do we need to turn Flatbush into another boutique lined crapfest?
This is where the barbershops, nail salons and other stuff belong.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:33 PM
In the late 90's Mooney's was the only thing going on in that part of Brooklyn. It was always crowded with a good vibe - a mixed crowed, racially and socio-economically. A few years ago the Mooneys brought in this ignorant bartender who had been fired from several other bars around the neighborhood to replace a longtime favorite and the atmosphere and business deteriorated.
All good things...
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:56 PM
Mooney's has been through this before - they were on 7th Avenue until 1987.
Whoever said that this bar is racist is an idiot. I've been going there for 17 years and always see black people in there. When Mr. Mooney had his 20th anniversary party this past summer, the majority of the crowd was black.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 1:58 PM
The wonderful thing about this is that - no one cares what you want on Flatbush!
What will go on Flatbush is businesses that agree to pay the rent that the LL asks (which will generally be the highest amount with the best tenant while hoping to avoid current and future rent loss with a vacant store)
And what will remain on Flatbush are those businesses which meet the need of nearby consumers.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 2:04 PM
Well business owners SHOULD care what the surrounding residents want and don't want.
If they don't, they will simply go out of business.
There's nothing wrong with people making suggestions. If enough people express their desire for a certain thing...perhaps someone reading this blog who have always wanted to open a gay bar would take a chance on it.
See how this works?
Your reasoning that businesses should be completely detached from the people who KEEP IT IN BUSINESS is pretty ignorant, at best.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 2:08 PM
Actually, I partly fault Mr. Mooney himself for this. The area near the bar has become more upscale in the past decade, but he has not changed his formula. Perhaps if he installed a kitchen and offered a better selection of beers he would be able to absorb the increase. The decor of the bar looks like Canarsie circa 1975.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 2:33 PM
Irish bars scare me.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:13 PM
2:08 - you belief that the postings on Brownstoner represent anything more then a tiny subset of what "residents" want (that is what they will spend $ at) is what is truly ignorant.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:44 PM
Ditto.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:51 PM
a tiny subset it better than nothing.
you are too cynical.
certainly no one is being hurt by making suggestions, so why so much anger?
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:51 PM
Totally 3:13--think "The Accused".
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:53 PM
I'm very familiar with this stretch, 12;17, being that I live 3 blocks away. is tand by my statement that this stretch is dreary and sometimes very dirty from the (fake?) hair scattering dumped by the numerous hair cut shops. I can count about 5 just on that block and the next one towards 6th.
and, someone please tell me where the Starbucks in Atlantic Terminal is. The one right by the LIRR (and next door to Bath and Body works) closed down last year.
Posted by: North Sleeper at November 7, 2007 4:21 PM
I remember Mooney's when it was on 7th Ave. - so I googled it up:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:gb4hNmbJHSMJ:query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html%3Fres%3D940DEEDE153DF934A25756C0A961948260%26sec%3D%26spon%3D%26pagewanted%3Dprint+mooney%27s+pub+brooklyn+7th+ave&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
that would be between Union and President, next to Super Savers.
Also found it on this Chowhound thread, which took me back to the 7th Ave. of the 80's I'd almost forgotten...
http://www.chowhound.com/topics/418185
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 4:42 PM
I like mooneys but as a 22 year old its not that great a place to go with friends, unless your friends are 50 year old truck drivers.
The beer isnt exactly cheap either.
i hope something lame doesnt go there.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 4:49 PM
The anger isnt at the suggestions, its at the tone and implication that anything that doesn't appeal to the "Brownstoner aesthetic" (which apparently only approves of a small independent store that sells upscale items or is geared towards the poor) indicates that Brooklyn has "jumped the shark"
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 5:07 PM
and, someone please tell me where the Starbucks in Atlantic Terminal is.The one right by the LIRR (and next door to Bath and Body works) closed down last year.
it wasn't closed when i walked by it last night.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 5:10 PM
cheese and meat are considered upscale items now?
hmmm. back in the day brooklyn used to be filled with butchers, cheese shops, etc.
guess it was more upscale back then.
silly me.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 5:12 PM
Sorry to hear about this. One of my favorite places to hang out in the Slope area, and one of the few places around there that still really felt like Brooklyn. Are there any real bars left now east of 5th Ave.?
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 6:08 PM
Too bad they are closing. It is inspiring to do the treadmill at Crunch across the street while looking out at the out of shape late afternoon drinkers on a smoking break. Maybe when they close these patrons should consider lifting weights instead of drinks.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 6:45 PM
Oh, it stinks- literally and the drinks do as well. In spite of the bottom-shelf liquor and the always-wrong mixers, I love Mooney's -at least in theory. Over the years, various small cells of hipsters have tried to make it their own only to find that the barflies aren't that interesting and that there are only about 8 of them. I don't know what's up with the dart throwers but I guess that there aren't enough of them to keep the bar going. Cheers to Joey-
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 7:39 PM
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