Open House Picks: Apartments

Barring a floorplan, it seems like the Clinton Hill loft is the only really good deal. The others seem a bit pricy. Is it me, or are these properties a bit rich?

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 9:02 AM

I'm in the market for a 2 bedroom in Broklyn Heights or Park Slope and I'm starting to get the feeling that the big brokers have all gotten together and decided that anything nice that's over 1000 sq ft. must get a million dollar asking price. Funny, I see a lot of these places sitting on the market for months but no one wants to cut or take a lower offer. We've bid in the $900s and been rejected even though there are no buyers at the ask. They're all terrified of having a couple of lower comps eat into the blind optimism that appears to be driving the market right now. This is a bit odd since $1000/sq ft. for a Brooklyn co-op was always an aspirational price - very few have ever sold at this level.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 9:16 AM

How is the Lexington Ave. in CH? Lex bet. Classon and Franklin? Whatever the case, it's very nice.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 9:39 AM

93 Lexington Ave is on the market for 1.5 million???????!!!!!!!!
Mr. B Before I go off, lets look at this. 20% down is 300,000 plus costing costs. Now we are at 1.2 million dollars of debt. 1.2 @ 7% is 8,596.95 a month, Plus maintenance fees. This will bring you up to 9,000 a month. Now here is the bonus question, How much this place would rent for????!!!! Maybe 2,500 a month no, 3,000 a month???. And don't give me that shit about mortgage deduction, you need to earn income. See Mr. B why I go off on you and this site. maybe you need to put a Mortgage Calculator here. Last but not lease, The bubble has popped. RIP Mutant Real Estate Bubble.

/rant off

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 9:46 AM

Are there any apts in these neighborhoods for less than 600K?

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:19 AM

OMG, I'm going to see a shrink, because I find myself in agreement with The What. At least about Clinton Hill loft (and the whole neighborhood frankly) being overpriced and overvalued.

When people spend $1.5 million to live in Clinton Hill, it's a couple or a family venturing into a fringe neighborhood in order to afford a house and more space. Not a bachelor looking for an open layout loft. Someone overinvested and did a fabulous renovation in this loft to suit their own tastes, but did not take into account what happens when it's time to sell. There's just nobody to sell this place to.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:26 AM

Here's what I found interesting to note - isn't the Park Slope 3rd street coop located inside PS 321 district? It is, right? And yet here you have a family-sized coop in PS 321 and the realtor doesn't mention the school district in the listing. It might say something about PS 321 starting to be less of a draw. Not that the school has become unappealing, but maybe just not such a hot selling feature anymore.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:29 AM

Oh and 10:19, yes there are apartments for under $600,000 in Park Slope. Don't despair. Check out the older brownstone 2 BR coops in Park Slope. The front doors and lobby/stairs might look a little grungy but the interiors of the apartments themselves are often nicely renovated.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:38 AM

The Clifton place looks dark and kind of cheesy - like a porn-film set. The PS place is hard to gage - given the current cost of living in the hood, the price does not seem wildly off the mark, but hard to say without knowing the square footage, and I think having only 1 bathroom is a drawback for a "family" apartment. I think folks in this price bracket would like to not have to wait in line to go pee with kids. Also the PS maintenance is on the high side. I think the comment about 321 being less of a draw these days is interesting. With all the fears of 321's overcrowding, it's true that I've been hearing more folks talk about 39 and 107 as increasingly attractive alternatives, and even less well-known schools, like 10 and 124 (which got an "A" on the recent city school report card) might be the next gems.

As for the bubble bursting, I pray it finally does, but when? We've been holding cash for our "trade-up" for over a year and alas have been seeing our purchasing power erode, but I hope to hell there's a correction that will at last allow us to do so. How long can NYC be immune when pretty much every other US market, including west coast and east (i.e. Boston area) have significantly cooled? There are investment bankers there too, but somehow they are not willing anymore to pay these unbelievable prices anymore...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:51 AM

Here's one for the economists out there.

Sorry if I appear naive, I'm a biologist not a financier,

IF the USD should ever regain strength on the international market what if any effect would that have on the cost of property in Br'klyn and the reno costs (assume labour remains fairly constant must materials should see some effect, no?

Like I say this is just a what if, it is the XMAS season coming up and a girl can dream of sugar plums.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:53 AM

I must agree with The What too - there is wisdom in today's rant that is at lot more grounded in specifics than the usual. We used to live in Fort Greene and were looking in Clinton Hill for a while, and while it's a lovely neighborhood, it does not merit that kind of price, especially for a tacky loft space, however large. I would find that space very depressing - good luck to the seller.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:54 AM

What? The What has said something worth listening to. My congratulations.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:57 AM

Re: BH apt - Is it just me, or would others prefer more bedrooms in that much square footage? If you have kids, then having the privacy of enclosed spaces is more important than having an extra big bathroom or living room I think. I think of this apt as being for either a childless couple or a couple planning on having one kid only. Maybe they are Manhattan transplants hoping to be near the BH private schools? I have no idea what the public schools are like there. The apartment feels a little soulless to me, and I would find that location annoyingly busy/congested. But again, maybe that's just me (I have 2 kids). And again, what a high maintenance! I wonder if one would not be better off in a 3BR coop/condo with lower maintenance ...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 10:59 AM

I'm sorry the CH loft just reminds me of a barn my family use to have back in Ireland. All it needs is cows and milking machine. It is dark and frankly characterless. And the What is right, How can over $800/month fees be considered low on top of the monthly mortgage payment.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:00 AM

10:53 - I feel that your question is like some kind of Zen koan, but maybe that's because I'm too thick-headed to get where you're going with it. What effect would a stronger dollar have? There was an article recently about foreigners buying up a lot of places in Manhattan, so would a stronger dollar dampen the market? The weakness of the dollar is an interesting conundrum since DC seems to be dragging their feet on doing anything about it, precisely in order to at least keep the trade deficit under control, since US goods are doing better on the international market. But I'd love to hear others' (specifically, the economists out there) take on how the dollar's recovery could affect the NYC real estate market.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:02 AM

I saw the PS apartment a few weeks ago. It's pretty but tiny - they aren't giving out the square footage but it can't be over about 1000 sq ft. The 2nd and 3rd bedrooms are both very very small. Would maybe suit a couple with 1 small child but beyond that I don't think it's really suitable for a family. And, it's a 4th floor walkup, which is not exactly first choice for a lot of families with small kids. It is a pretty street, though, and nice location. It will be interesting to see if someone pays that price for it - very expensive on a per sq. footage basis, and maintenance is indeed high considering size of apt. and fact that building has no services.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:07 AM

The What even forgot the lost earnings on the 300k cash you need to close (another $1000 per month) .. and the fact that the place HAS to be sold for 1.65m+ when you come time to sell if you want to avoid principal erosion on top of all that foregone interest.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:07 AM

I too have to say- what the what? the what is right.

m

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:17 AM

I think the point in 10:53's questions is, if the dollar does regain significant strength, is there a possibility of a significant burst in the property balloon.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:17 AM

I concure that these prices are way over the top (esp. the CH place). I'm in the market for a 2 br. myself, but don't feel any real pressure to buy because I have a nice 2br rental in BH at below market cost because I've been in it for a few years. To buy a $1m + co-op, my interest and maintenance costs alone in the first five years would be significantly more than my rent (around 200% more in fact). Unless I see a place that is very nice AND a decent value, I'm holding my cash (earning a decent return). Sometimes buying just doesn't make economic sense. For first time buyers in NY, even Brooklyn now, it no longer pays to buy at these prices.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:18 AM

11:18 - where are you holding your cash at decent return? We've been at ING, where we're getting about 5%. I also in some ways feel no pressure since we own a very nice place now - we just want more space and have a chunk of change (beyond our apt value) to trade up. But in the last year, we've been really surpised that the market is anything has taken these crazy leaps, which I honestly don't think can possibly be sustainable. Let's see what the discussion is about the dollar. Any economists out there? I thought the dollar was set to stay low for a while, but aren't we pissing off our trading partners by not taking any action? I really do wonder who these buyers are who are leaping in at crazy prices right now - are they all Manhattan transplants?

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:25 AM

CH is a fabulous neighborhood. The loft is great. And, it is in Bed-Stuy on a really bad block. There are beautiful blocks in Bed-Stuy but this is seriously not pleasant. What wealthy people would want to live in a place without a dry cleaner? A florist? A green grocer? A hardware store? Oh, right, there is a great bakery on Franklin Ave. I get it.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:26 AM

Wow, if PS is under 1000 sf, they've got balls. It does look nice in the photos, but again, who is the buyer? If it's a family (the usual target for a 3BR), then you need a minimum of 1000 sf, and the layout is also really important. In fact, we've noticed that often, a well-laid out 1000 sf can be a better value than a 1400 sf apt that wastes space. So it's not that size is the be-all/end-all, but I do think 1000 sf is the minimum for a well-laid out 3BR.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:29 AM

first time buyers???

not sure where you come from, but first time buyers aren't buying million dollar apts, 11:18.

we start out small and work our way up.

there are plenty of 300, 400, 500k apts for first time buyers, but these ain't it.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:29 AM

ING is at 4.20 percent right now.

no one holding money in a savings account is making too decent a return...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:34 AM

11:18 here - most of my cash is in a 5% money market at Citi and jumbo CDs earning a little more. I have some other assets(mutual funds and the like) that I might get out of if I needed more for the down payment - which is unlikely unless I start bidding above $1.4. But frankly I might just by a vacation house in Vermont or something. At least there I'll get a bit of dirt for my money.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:36 AM

RE: The Park Slope place...

That rooftop...which looks stunning...is private so says the listing...

I would think that certainly has to do with the price being a little on the high side, no?

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:38 AM

Vermont real estate has tanked in the last 2 years. You might be able to get a good bargain.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:38 AM

Wrong - I'm a first time buyer who saves religiously, makes well over $200k, and hasn't decided to put down roots in NY until now. I'm married and need a two bedroom in case we have a kid in the near future. But as I said above, I have no desire to pay over a million dollars for an apartment with a high maintenance cost and I don't want to move to a fringe neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:39 AM

ok, i suppose by first time buyers, i wasn't considering grown adults with kids who never bought. I'm talking people in our 20's and 30's who are single.

the typical first time buyer profile...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:42 AM

First time buyer here - that post was a bit obnoxious I admit. But point stands - I'm a legit first time buyer for whom getting buying an apartment in Brooklyn no longer makes sense.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:44 AM

you can still find some lovely 2 bedrooms in park slope for around 700K or so. take a look around. i think i saw a nice one listed on lincoln place last week...

definitely for 800K you should be able to find something...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:48 AM

I agree that I'm not the typical first time buyer, but I know a lot of young professionals like me in their early 30s who moved to NY after grad school but who no longer think it makes sense to buy the space they need even though they are able to.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:49 AM

The PS coop is typical of what we saw when we looked at 3BR condos in PS. A million for 1000-1100 on average square feet. We just couldn't bring ourselves to do it. The bedrooms are tiny in all these 3 BR places in Park Slope, and almost always the 3rd bedroom would be carved out somehow so it would be a windowless, interior room. So they're not really 3BR units they're a 2 BR + office. Big difference. I suspect this unit is like that, b/c of the lack of a floorplan or photos of the so-called 3rd bedroom. I don't even know how they get away with calling those layouts 3 BR.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:51 AM

I would have thought I could find somethign at $800-900 (the upper end of my ideal price range), but the places we've seen at that price have been pretty disappointing. As I mentioned above, we bid in the low $900s on two that were asking $1.1-1.2, but they rejected and haven't come back to us even though the apartments remain unsold. I suspect that either the owners aren't motivated or the Brokers don't want to set lower comps - probably hoping for a bonus season pickup.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:55 AM

For an "artist live/work loft", that Clinton Hill apartment has no natural light at all. It's depressing and dark. Can't imagine what kind of artist would want to work in that, since that seems to be the targeted buyer.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 12:08 PM

If they are coops, 11:55, the building would not approve the seller selling for lower than recent comps.

Offering a full $100,000 to $200,000 less should not be expected to have much success. If you can spend low $900's you need to look at condos and coops listed at $950,000 maybe $975,000. Not over a million. You're looking in the wrong price bracket and spinning wheels. Sellers will take less but not 20% less.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 12:10 PM

That PS price is tough for 4th floor, but it looks to be in good shape. I do like the BH place, a lot of room for the money.

As for the loft, since there are no comps anywhere, it'll be up to the market to decide. Problem could be if the decor is TOO funky for most people. I might pay that much if it were to my taste, but otherwise no.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 12:11 PM

"If they are coops, 11:55, the building would not approve the seller selling for lower than recent comps."

I'm not 11:55. Is this true? Does it also apply to condos? What if the market changes, though?
I'm looking at a condo and thinking of offering 15% less than listing. There is 1 comp in the building at about the listing price, but it was sold in July.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 12:16 PM

11:55 here - we put in the bids not really expecting too much. Figured it was worth a try since both apts. had been on the market for a while already. And as I said, you get much over $1m, and it simply doesn't make economic sense for us.

And we haven't seen many places under $1m that we liked (there was one early on but we hesitated and lost it - the winning bid came in at $975 though).

Thanks for the tip about coop boards-makes some sense other than for the fact that the asks seemed to be kind f a reach anyway(kind of pissed that our agent didn't mention this when we were low balling). But we are willing to be patient - we want a good neighborhood, two real bedrooms, a well renovated kitchen, and if possible a second or half bath. We've only been searching for two months so far, but I'm already pretty discouraged. Vermont looks better every day (and it isn't even ski season yet).

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 12:28 PM

The Park Slope coop is being listed with Agueyo and Heubner and Brown Harris Stevens (who have a floor plan, I believe). Is this unusual? Also, I have not seen the place but I would guess that it is approx. 1200 square feet as are all of that type of limestone.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 1:15 PM

BHS does have a floorplan. 2 of the BRs are tiny. Bathroom is small too.

http://media.bhsusa.com/floorplans/W763426.jpg

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 1:46 PM

lah,
What is your place like? Is it in PS?

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 2:16 PM

"Sellers will take less but not 20% less."

Perhaps, but in the same way that brokers are automatically raising prices to $1,000/sf, i.e., at least 20% above recent comparables, buyers should be equally aggressive on lowballing.

What do you have to lose? At best, you get a deal. At worst, you signal to brokers and sellers that their prices are unrealistic.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 2:29 PM

agree with 2:29. who cares if offers are 'insulting'? asking prices are insulting

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 2:37 PM

I think the poster discussing the rarity of PS 3BR's has a good point - it's very hard to find ones with "real" 3BRs. We actually own one ourselves, and what makes it so special is that it has 3 exposures which allows us to have real windows in each room. Our smallest bedroom is about 9 x 12 but has a huge closet and a very big window and high ceilings, so even that relatively small room works as a real bedroom (easily fits twin bed, desk, bookshelf, etc. We also have 2 BA, outdoor space, and storage. We looked really hard to find this, and found that even less well laid-out 3BR's were rare. Brokers all tell us that due to the rarity, there is a premium added - given the cost of houses these days, we often find that it is hard to find a house that significantly improves our living space (though believe me, we're looking!). For example, if you buy a 16 x 40 house (pretty typical in the affordable townhouse range), you can only get 2 BR's on top floor, then you have to figure out where to put 3rd BR - either on parlor level or garden. In the end, you pay a big price increase for a larger common space and going up and down stairs a lot. That said, I do think the market for 2 BR's should certainly be a little better, since there's more of them - supply is a big factor in the current market - in fact, I think it's lack of inventory which is propping up demand...

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 2:54 PM

1:58/2:48, I tip my hat to you - but where are you moving to? Philosophically, I agree with you, but the market right now is like a vicious circle that brings out the worst in everyone. How can you afford to buy something if you don't sell for top dollar? I really am curious. We are planning to sell our place and while we'd like to avoid the craziness, we need to make enough that we in turn can afford the next place. That said, since we have cash in hand from another source, we'd happily see the prices decline to 2004 or even 2005 levels - that is, if houses became more affordable, we'd happily sell our apt for less than the typical prices now... Who will be the first to stop the cycle of greediness?

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 2:58 PM

Buyers should simply start inundating brokers with offers at 20% below the ask. Get them used to that level of bids.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 3:05 PM

It'll happen 3:05, if it's not already that widespread.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 3:11 PM

most of us are already priced out of the market, 3:14. I think the reality at this point is that unless sellers are willing to price aggressively, they risk having properties sit for a very long time, unless they really have something quite exceptional to offer. There's always another apartment around the corner, you know? Like others, we are renting for now, and waiting for prices to come down. At worst, we see them stabilizing - in which case, no rush to buy something that is overpriced or doesn't really meet all our criteria. I think a lot of sellers are not used to this new reality though. Maybe it will change in the spring - who knows? Can't see why it would - but then, I can't figure out why prices have gone up so drastically over the past few years in the first place - not a rational market.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 3:26 PM

Regarding what would happen to NYC real estate if the dollar strengthened:
The real answer is that no one can say with any certainty. Economic systems are complex and interdepemndent in ways that are not fully understood.
For example, why is the dollar so weak now? Many possible answers, personally I begin by looking at the growth in the money supply, which has been HUGE. (Look at M2) Nobody talks about this--it's too boring and convoluted. If Federal reserve policy suddenly started to contract the money supply (highly unlikely as the economy needs the stimulus) the dollar would strengthen and home prices nation wide including NY would go down. However, in the real world no one can say when, how or why the dollar will begin to make a comeback. Eventually it will--and when it does we will all be scratching our heads trying to figure out what it all means, just like today. In the meantime, I hope prices come down so I can afford a place to live. LOL.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 3:58 PM

Regarding the CH property, I think people are being a little unfair. It looks like a beautifully done loft. It's understandable that some people may find real lofts dark and not to their tastes, but this seems well-done for the genre. I think the real problem is the size. At 2400', the price is too high. I think it would sell if it was half the size and half the price.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 4:08 PM

Regarding the comment about PS 321 not being mentioned in the listing, we recently sold our 3 bedroom on 3rd st. and our broker said that it is now illegal to mention what school the property is zoned for. Sounds ridiculous but they wouldn't do it.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 4:57 PM

4:57, can you give us a comp? How big was your apt, how much did it sell for, and when? Thanks!

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 5:16 PM

4:57, can you give us a comp? How big was your apt, how much did it sell for, and when? Thanks!

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 5:21 PM

Moderation is a fatal thing... Nothing succeeds like excess. - Oscar Wilde

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 6:46 PM

The thing about price per square foot is that it is not always technically the thing that matters most to buyers. For example, the layout/usefulness of a space is key, so that a 1500 sf apt can be much more useful than one that is 2000 or 2400 - after a certain point, is it really worth it to pay for a lot of extra space when you don't really need the actual square footage? This relates to the issue the person who was talking about rare 3BR's talks about. What would you rather have: a 2BR, 1BA with 1300 SF, or a 3BR/2BA with 1200? I'd say the latter, since you get more use out of the space.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 7:42 PM

My understanding is that the CH borders are not technically delineated - and this seems more like CH than BS to me (disclaimer: I live 2 blocks away). That block also has at least 3 and possibly 5 buildings being converted on it.

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 8:25 PM

live on Clifton & Classon...the big loft is on a block that's kind of industrial but not so bad especially if you like that sort of thing....the area is changing quickly. Technically it is bed stuy but is really kind of no man's land between the two. I do think the ceiling is kind of low in that space though.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 1:02 AM

As for the PS apt being over-priced, people seem to be thinking only of what they are looking for themselves, not what this place has to offer. The private roof deck should get a $100k on it's own people. Besides a private garden and extra sq footage 3/4 of the year, it usually also means more voting shares in the co-op than an equivalent floor plan without roof rights. While those of you with toddlers think 4th floor is too high to walk up, those with kids who can actually move recognize that top floor means more light. More importantly to me, it means not having to listen to your toddler running around in an apartment above me. Top floor is much quieter. As for the rooms being small, your kids live in the city so they get small rooms. It took me 22 years to get my own room.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 1:44 AM

"As for the PS apt being over-priced, people seem to be thinking only of what they are looking for themselves, not what this place has to offer."

Uh, Duh.

Still overpriced.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 11:56 AM

ps place has an offer.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 12:36 PM

i agree that the loft is in a no man's land between the two, an area so ravaged by crack that bed stuy residents refused to "own" it--labeling it "Crack-Stuy."

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 2:11 PM

yeah, actually it's in Bushwick...

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 2:21 PM

Yeah, my Grandmother said that about my loft in Tribeca...nows she's dead and it's worth $2.5M.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 3:21 PM

you are comparing tribeca in manhattan to BED STUY?

you're crazy, right??

you can still get a small raw loft in tribeca for 1.5 million if you really tried.

the price is absurd for that neighborhood.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 3:50 PM

point taken about tribeca. i grew up in that no man's land. mother bought a brownstone for 28. let's just say its worth a lot more than that now.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 4:17 PM

I'm not comparing tribeca to BS. The point, of course, is that neighborhoods can transform qute dramatically. Tribeca was a complete no-go area...and now it isn't. And I don't think a $625/sf ask, is crazy. The problem, is that the loft is too big at 2400', and anyone that can afford $1.5M, could live anywhere they want.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 7:29 PM

Did anyone go to the open house?

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 7:45 PM

The what has always made sense. You are all doomed that is why this blog is in trouble. The blog bubble begins. :)

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 8:08 PM

everything but the park slope place is overpriced

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 8:46 PM

The What isn't the sicko, idiots. It's The What's immature impersonator who has fun posting sicko comments and attributing them to The What.

Long live The What! He does make sense, like it or not.

Posted by: guest at November 18, 2007 11:21 PM

The park slope place is absolutely gorgeous. Yes, I went to the open house. Was expecting to find yet another overpriced apt in need of some work, but was pleasantly surprised to find that the listing accurately describes the apt. 4th floor workup can be a drawback, but if you want your own private roof deck (this one is just spectacular), you would need to find an apt on the top floor. my only regret is I can’t afford it, else I would grab it in a second, and would not be writing this feedback.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:09 AM

Fuck The What.

Fuck his family.

Fuck his friends.

Fuck him.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:41 AM

No, fuck you 1:41. You sound like a real psychotic piece of work.

Signed,
Not The What

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:41 AM

Why is the website useful again? Could someone please remind me?

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 8:36 AM

Apparently it's useful for catharsis.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 10:09 AM

"The park slope place is absolutely gorgeous"

Smells like a broker doing sunday night homework.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 10:13 AM

"Smells like a broker doing sunday night homework."

nope, that's your breath.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 10:56 AM

Nope, definitely smells like broker poop.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 11:46 AM

11:18 AM - LOOKING FOR A 2 BEDRM

the williamsburg (really in greenpoint) apt is under a million and is is zoned for PS 34, which is a A+ magnet school - one of the best in city. This place is right on McCarren park, near the kid's playground, and looks like it might have some nice views. i have some friends that bought a couple blocks from there because of the school and are really happy living on the park. they are there probably daily. they have a toddler and one on the way.

the parents' community is extremely strong in the area and growing.

before you all start.. i am not a broker. i live about 6-7 blocks away and have a kid, so that post caught my eye.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 12:56 PM

oops confused schools. 34 is an A+ school, but 31 is the magnet school (also in greenpoint). both schools are really really good.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:00 PM

what does catharsis mean? thx

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:16 PM

Actually, there is a market in PS for the three bedroom apartments with 2 smaller bedrooms. People know that the brownstone/limestone layout doesn't yield 3 (or usually even 2) medium-to-large bedrooms - if you want that, you go for the larger apartment buildings (but then you usually pay significantly more in maintenance to cover the staff, the elevators, etc.)

The smaller approx. 7' wide bedrooms, if they are 10-12 feet long, really do make good children's bedrooms, office/studies, guest rooms, or extra space for whatever you want - art room, workshop, etc. The ceilings are high in these buildings, and the windows large, so the rooms don't seem too small if furnished right. (The really small squarish 2nd bedrooms I've seen in other types of apartments - like barely 6' X 8'- are the real turnoff - you feel like you are in a closet when in them.)

Contrary to popular expectations, not everybody who wants a bit of extra space wants it for a family - some have two home offices, other interests that take space, or frequent guests. Those with little kids figure they will eventually move to larger homes when they have more or bigger kids.

The PS apartment will sell, probably close to ask, or over. And no, I'm not a broker, but I sold a similar apartment this year, so I know the market is there for this this layout, and that it is a large market. And there are many fewer apartments around this size than there are of the standard 2-bdrm, no dining room, brownstone floor-thru layout, and when you see one of these after seeing many of those, these apartments seem really large. And having a real dining room is really nice.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:31 PM

1:31, it's absolutely true that there is a potential market for an apt like the PS one among people who don't have families (or only have 1 small kid). The people who own it now have no kids, and that's one of the reasons it looks so great. With 2 kids myself, this place is just not going to fly. Not for us anyway. But it is nice and I'm sure someone will take it, though I wouldn't be so sanguine about it getting the asking price. I really don't know why people can't accept the market has slowed.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:16 PM

the park slope place received an offer over asking.

done.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:23 PM

I just called the broker and they said no offers but "lots of interest" and they may get an offer shortly.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:24 PM

I live a few doors down so whenever a 3rd St apartment comes on the market I take a look. I’ve seen quite a few and this one is the best of the lot. There are other 3rd apartments where the kitchen in the back, those IMHO are the worst. Hard to read the market these days but the OH was very busy so there must be large market.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 3:10 PM

LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE. 93 LEX AINT CLINTON HILL. IS THAT WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO TO SELL HOUSES THESE DAYS? SHEESH!

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 3:58 PM

"I think the point in 10:53's questions is, if the dollar does regain significant strength, is there a possibility of a significant burst in the property balloon."

For the dollar to gain strength, interest rates would have to go up substantially. That would contract the money supply and put us in a deflationary spiral. So, yes, property prices will plummet nominally and really.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:04 PM

a friend and her husband (one child) told me they were putting in an offer on the park slope place.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:05 PM

Uhhm, by the way just last year the Lexington Ave. place was listed for about 600k -- I don't think it moved at that price.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:06 PM

Yes, in most of these narrow 3-bedroom PS apartments, the kitchen was originally in the back. The best layouts are where the kitchen has been moved to the middle, near the rooms now used as living/dining rooms, leaving the bedrooms in the back (it is usually more quiet at night in the back with no street noise, and the bedrooms get more light in back than if on the side with only airshaft windows.)

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:16 PM

keep dreaming 4:04.

the prediction is that nyc real estate will decline by 14% over 5 years.

and that's a worse case scenario.

judging by your lame comment, 14% is still gonna keep you a renter.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:35 PM

First time I have seen zip code 11222 described as Williamsburg. But I may be behind the times a bit. Resident of 11222, Greenpoint!

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:36 PM

"the prediction is that nyc real estate will decline by 14% over 5 years"

Nice try. In real terms, it has already dropped 14%. Do you pay attention to the Dollar, the Euro and gold? Stay handcuffed to that bag.

"14% is still gonna keep you a renter"

Absolutely. Even nominally, that's still too close to the top of the market. At these crackhead prices, it's cheaper to rent from the landlord than the bank. You'll never again see 2007 prices (real terms) in your lifetime.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/08/26/weekinreview/27leon_graph2.html

Are you a f***'ed buyer? I'm so sorry about your "underwater" situation. There's still time to get out.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 5:13 PM

"we bid in the low $900s on two that were asking $1.1-1.2, but they rejected and haven't come back to us even though the apartments remain unsold"

Betcha five dollars they'll call you back within before end of Q1.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 5:35 PM

"we're all doom!!! the what said something that made sense."

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
- Arthur Schopenhauer, (1788 - 1860)

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 5:37 PM

4:36 sure that that apt. is in greenpoint. it's a great building for couples with small kids or thinking of kids because the school is very good as mentioned above. the neighborhood buyer is now more couples probably anyway.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 5:47 PM

greenpoint lies over a pretty major oil slick.

and you raise children there??

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 5:55 PM

the apt shown is no where near the oil slick - it's on the park on the williamsburg border.

also, yes. people are clearly raising children in greenpoint. i live in williamsburg and it seems like most of the condo buyers have kids or are thinking of making them.

point is is that that apt. is zoned for one of the best elementary schools in brooklyn. look it up. and, it's on a park.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 7:13 PM

#19 - you are complaining about the manhattan ave apt? are you kidding? you do not know your geography. also, have you seen what people with kids are paying to live in Dumbo, which is full of exhaust, noise and a project?

look, it's the city. no where is all that clean.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 7:15 PM

we had a 1000 sq foot place (with storage + a backyard) and we moved after we had a kid. now, i've got 2x that and finally feel comfortable. I've seen many apts. in the past on 3rd street like the PS apt. I think that they are, like this one shown, way too claustrophobic, especially with kids.

the PS place is a joke at that price. it's all hype there.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 7:29 PM

wow. we seem to have a lovely greenpoint booster on here.

we get it. the school is great.

don't see too many brownstones around there.

some lovely aluminum siding though.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 8:41 PM