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November 29, 2007
House of the Day: 274 Clinton Avenue
Has the value of Clinton Hill real estate gone up 50% in the last two years? Don't think so. But that's the increase that the seller of 274 Clinton Avenue is looking to make. She bought the five-story house in August of 2005 for $1,925,000 and now has the house back on the market for $2,995,000. Of course, from the looks of it, she's put a fair amount of dough into the renovation, which looks pretty nice. (Our only quibbles are the choice of white for the bannister and the fact that the crown and ceiling moldings are no more.) There's lots of original woodwork, however, and it's on a fantastic block. We could see this fetching $2.6 or $2.7 million but would surprised if someone steps up for the full asking price. Stranger things have happened though.
274 Clinton Avenue [Corcoran] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
1.2mm tops.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:34 PM
not sure if this seller has heard...prices are going DOWN in fringe areas or areas that gentrified during the latest housing boom.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:36 PM
Where is all the crown molding?? If you're going to restore a house and flip it, you have to put in the crown molding. It's the cheapest thing to do. Those ceilings look horrendous. And the paint job only highlights the fact that the decorative molding is missing.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:39 PM
Don't understand this layout at all, and while there might be someone out there willing to pay 2.5 million for this, I can't imagine who. Is there a shared stairwell? I don't even especially like the renovation, and for nearly $3 million or even $500,000 less, I'd buy something else I didn't have to renovate again too make a good layout for my family.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:39 PM
Park Slope, here I come. The FG/CH market is too full of itself, and I'd rather spend that kind of money in PS, stroller bitches and all.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:42 PM
Upon 2nd thought, I wouldn't have even paid the original 1.9 million for the place.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:44 PM
Where is the 5th floor? Below the garden level? Built on the roof? Also, the building, according to pShark is 45x20 for 900sf/floor, so it's 4500sf tops rather than the 5100sf listed.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:46 PM
This house and the broker's Washington Park listing will sit for a long time. He's trying to fashion himself as the new Minsky. I guess some sellers don't really need to sell, but are just testing the market.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:46 PM
Narrow house and the taxes are high
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:50 PM
at least in park slope you have the better schools, shops, restaurants, bars, a huge park and transportation.
since when was clinton hill more expensive than ps anyway?
ridiculous.
i agree with you, 1:42. the ft. greene/clinton hill market is completely out of line.
i'd take any of the handful of ps homes on the market right now (all under 3 million, btw except for the montgomery place one) over this thing.
their lack of putting the molding up (so simple and cheap!) shows to me how little they care about the house and neighborhood and how much they want a big fat payday.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:50 PM
wow clinton hillers are so full of themselves and their marginal (at best) hood
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:51 PM
I get the feeling the first 9 comments were all from the same person.
Posted by: Lothar of the Clinton Hill People at November 29, 2007 1:51 PM
Is it just some glitch in my browser, or is there really no floor plan that comes up from the link on the Corcoran site? I would really like to know how this is classified as a 5 story building. Is there a set-back addition on the top that's not visible, or are they actually exhibiting the gall to call the cellar a habitable level?
Posted by: johnife at November 29, 2007 1:52 PM
Corco had another house on Lafayette for 2.3 that was smaller than this, frankly not that nice and it apparently sold in a couple of weeks. I dont see why this house, which is bigger and better renovated, wont get between 2.5 and asking.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:52 PM
The taxes are listed at $13,000 a year. Is that right? Are property taxes that high there?
I thought the property taxes in NYC were more reasonable, given we already must pay the city income tax.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:58 PM
looks like it's been on the market a while.
that pic is taken with full lush green vegetation out front.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 1:59 PM
"I think the price is quite reasonable, actually."
Oh, phew! and there I was thinking it was about $700k too high.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:02 PM
When I click on floorplan it doesn't come up.How many brownstones have 2 separate stairwells? I don't understand.
It is larger than your average brownstone, so..??
But the photography police has to talk to Abdul for a second. Abdul, kudos to you for owning and using a wide lens! However, the distortion is bugging me. You can fix this in Photoshop. Thank you.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:03 PM
johnife, there is a floorplan, and I posted at 1:39 that I didn't understand it. It seems like the lower triplex isn't private -- the tenants have to go through your space. Who would pay 3 million for that? PS, I didn't do all the first 9 posts, so someone else is also posting that this is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:03 PM
The problem here is that previous owner waay overpaid in 2005.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:07 PM
It's listed at less than $600 per square foot. Could be a bit high, but I don't think it's crazy. And certainly cheaper than PS. Taxes are highest I've seen, though - a good 5,000-7,000 more than most similar houses.
Lastly, anyone who says PS has better transportation than Fort Greene is a moron.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:11 PM
agree on that one, 2:07.
let's hope some poor sucker doesn't do the same now.
this should not sell for more than 2 million dollars.
i don't believe anything in clinton hill is worth more than that at this time.
it is a neighborhood in transition in an economy that may be heading into a recession.
it is quite possible this home would have a tough time selling for 1.8 million in 5 years.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:14 PM
The brownstone next door is owned by Tau Delta Phi Delta. So it's a frat house??
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:15 PM
homes in the north of park slope are much more accessible to trains than this home in CLINTON HILL.
not ft. greene. nice try though, 2:11.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:21 PM
So could someone explain why those taxes are almost $14K?
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:24 PM
"it is a neighborhood in transition in an economy that may be heading into a recession."
The neighborhood has been in transition for the last 8 years. It amazes me...half of you think Clinton Hill and Bed Stuy are one in the same, and the other half don't know the difference between Ft. Greene and Clinton Hill in terms of actual geographic location.
I do believe this is symptomatic of Christopher Columbus Syndrome. Just because you didn't know it existed up until a couple of years ago, does not make it fringe.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:27 PM
i think this broker is ridiculous. This will sit on the market for several months get "old" and then he will be forced to reduce the price.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:32 PM
ft greene and PS have the same trains.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:36 PM
2:27, here again. For the record, the house is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:38 PM
I think it's very expensive, but brokers don't set prices by themselves. The owners are just as culpable.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:38 PM
in the grand scheme of new york city, clinton hill is most CERTAINLY fringe.
i bet you 50% of those in manhattan have never ever HEARD of clinton hill, much less been there or know a thing about it.
try to think outside of your tiny little world in brooklyn and realize that clinton hill was not on anyone's radar 10 years ago and is on very few people's radar now outside of brooklyn.
THAT'S FRINGE.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:40 PM
Wow, so many Clinton Hill haters posting. Why all the bitterness? I'm not defending the house and the price, but the street is one of the prettiest anywhere, with many beautiful, free standing mansions -- the bishop of Brooklyn lives in a mansion on this block. I would live on this block in a second if I could afford it (once again, not in that house). There are many mature magnolia trees on this stretch and it is stunning in the spring. And, the block is surrounded by many lovely, tree-lined brownstone blocks, with a fair amount of services nearby on Dekalb. To me, the comparison to the south slope just doesn't work. Much of the south slope housing stock is not of the same quality. Clinton Ave, at the turn of the century was called "the Fifth Avenue of Brooklyn".
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:49 PM
"i bet you 50% of those in manhattan have never ever HEARD of clinton hill, much less been there or know a thing about it."
50% of those in manhattan have never been above 96th street. Not a good argument.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:53 PM
I remember going to see this during an open house, before it was purchased for $1.9
Back then they were selling it as a 2 family as well, which didn't make sense to us since everyone had to use the main stair for circulation between floors. Rental unit is on floors 4 and 5. The acces to the 5th floor is via a ridiculously small stair with winders. Good luck trying to get any type of furniture, other than IKEA knockdowns up those stairs. Also, the floor plan and pictures are misleading. The front, I would say 10' (I'm 5'-11")of the fifth floor (bedroom), is practically unsable as the ceiling slopes downward towards the top of the cornice line, which is why you can't see the 5th floor in the photo. Don't know about everyone else, but I like stand upright when walking about my apartment.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:53 PM
renter envy
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:53 PM
Or, below 34th!
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:55 PM
corcoran is always pushing their prices it seems to me. think that they usually overprice.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:56 PM
I meant below 14th Street:)
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:56 PM
House seems to be expensive to me. But a one bedroom apartment in Manhattan for 1 million seems expensive to me. I bought a house on Putnam Avenue 6 years ago for less than 300k. Drug dealers and prostitutes walk down my street - as well as a lot of really nice people. Now where I live, that is Fringe. When I walk back to Clinton Avenue, Clinton Hill, where I used to live, well, that's not fringe (to me). Mansions, the Bishop of Brooklyn's house, the President of Pratt's House, line one of the prettier streets in New York. 2:40, I really don't get (and am bored by, tho here I am replying) with the recent need by Park Slopers (or children in Akron Ohio) to sniff at houses in Fort Greene or Clinton Hill. Without knowing who you are and where you hang out, who are you to claim anyone else's world view is more limitted than your own. Clinton Hill was on my radar screen ten years ago when I bought my apartment for 85k and sold it for 340k three years later. There is no grand scheme of things. Just very many different groups and populations who exist in the same city, but have very different views of what is important or not. I bet 50% of the people in Manhattan have never heard of Park Slope or have no idea where it really is. Does that make it fringe? When I was 23 and first in New York I didn't know where it was. Did that make it fringe? No, it just made me ignorant.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 29, 2007 2:59 PM
monthly nut is over 18K a month. . . wow. So if New Yorks spend have their income on housing, this buyer is making 430K a year.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:00 PM
2:02 -- The marked has changed? In one week? I dont think so.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:00 PM
I am a dwarf and I could fully utilize that top-floor space. . .
Since I am so small, I really wouldn't get in the way of the owner when they are going up and down the stairs to their bedrooms, either.
So go ahead and spend $3M on this well-designed space!
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:04 PM
There are as many Clinton Hill "haters" as there are people who think the world revolves around Clinton Hill.
It's nice...sure..parts of Clinton Ave are great...no doubt.
It's also just a hop, skip and a jump from some housing projects, a hefty walk to the trains, little services nearby, a patch of, sketchy schools and a pricetag at least a million dollars over what the previous things lacking should indicate to sane people.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:06 PM
"I bet 50% of the people in Manhattan have never heard of Park Slope"
You lost your arguement here.
I'd say more like 10%.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:09 PM
I don't believe people are "sniffing" at homes in Clinton Hill so much as they are "sniffing" at the completely ridiculous prices that people in the neighborhood seem to think they deserve.
3 million for what?
A flipped house with a B-level renovation and moldings ripped out?
Just because it's Clinton Hill?
Don't think so bud. Not when homes in neighborhoods which are far more along in the gentrifying process command the same price.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:15 PM
i dont hate Clinton Hill I just think this place is overpriced.
I would live there if it was so exspensive and only had the G
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:28 PM
"It's also just a hop, skip and a jump from some housing projects, a hefty walk to the trains, little services nearby, a patch of, sketchy schools and a pricetag at least a million dollars over what the previous things lacking should indicate to sane people."
The border's of CH, just like every other brooklyn neighborhood, fall into these categories. Except the "hefty walt to the trains", regardless of which part of Clinton Hill you're in. The walk to the train is only hefty, if you're hefty.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:28 PM
50% of the people in Manhattan ARE NOT FROM NYC!! Who cares what they've heard of?
Posted by: rh at November 29, 2007 3:32 PM
"You lost your arguement here. I'd say more like 10%."
You're delusional. Forgetting about the argument itself, statistically speaking, that's not even possible. 10% of people living in manhattan doesn't even account for the part of the manhattan population that is still getting acquainted with this country, let alone the city of NY itself.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:32 PM
3:15,
Aside from one lonely voice, everyone, including those defending the neighborhood, believe that the house is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:35 PM
this is a city of immigrants.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:36 PM
let me get this straight, 3:32...
you think new immigrants to this country are more apt to move right from the boat into manhattan???
and you think I'M delusional?
get a clue buddy. most of these new people to the country are moving to queens and brooklyn. they certainly know where park slope is. lots of them have settled along its southern and western borders.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:37 PM
3:09 (may I call you "3"? [N. Coward I'm sorry])I wasn't trying to win an argument, just trying to highlight the stupidity of the "my people have never heard of your people and so your people must have no importance in the world" argument. My complete statement was that 50% of people in Manhattan have never heard of Park Slope or don't know where it really is. I have no idea if that is true, but I suspect I am closer to the truth than your 10%. Neither of us has done a survey. I guess your point is that a certain class of people (who we both assume might be more likely to drop 3 million on a townhouse) are more likely to have heard of Park Slope than Clinton Hill. Clinton Hill is clearly on the Fringe of YOUR world, but, honey, that doesn't make it the Fringe of the WHOLE world. It kinda (duh) depends on where your sit, or shit, or something like that. But again, house seems a bit pricy even sitting over in in my crack alley.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 29, 2007 3:40 PM
All these comments and not one about the fact that the ceiling apprears to have been furred out. So not only, as many mentioned, do you have no cove molding the cove, or most of it, itself seems to have disappeared.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:44 PM
"you think new immigrants to this country are more apt to move right from the boat into manhattan???"
No dear, you're delusional. I hate to burst your little teeny-tiny perception of the borough of manhattan, but there are large neighborhoods comprised of one or more immigrant communities. People get right off the boat and move to where there family and friends are located. Gasp...even if they live in manhattan. And on the higher-end, you've ignored the fact that there is a great deal of prime manhattan real estate owned by immigrants. Whether they choose to live there or not.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:46 PM
Bliddy Hell.... You people will find an argument in anything!! Clinton hill, Crown Heights, Bed Stuy, Park slope..I hate, I love... each day, same crap.....
Surfice to say, this site is soooo entertaining even if you do all act just like bloody children!!
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:46 PM
most immigrants settle in the outer boroughs.
period.
your comment is asinine, 3:46.
you just want to argue.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:50 PM
dwarf here. . .
isn't anyone going to defend the rights of vertically challenged people to enjoy full use of the upper duplex?
maybe the deep-pocketed buyer could advertise the apartment on a website that targets little people.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:54 PM
Regarding the high taxes, this situation happens when the building was a former SRO--not sure why.
Looking at Pshark, there was a new C of O issued in 2002, and it looks like it had been an SRO before that.
I live nearby and this owner will be lucky to recoup her investment in this market.
And shame on the broker for no floorplan or kitchen and bath photos. Workin' hard for that 6%...Or maybe the kitchens and baths are so crummy that they're not worth showing.
Either way, it's no way to market a $1+MM property.
Posted by: tinarina at November 29, 2007 3:55 PM
Oooh, ooh--Rosie Perez lives two houses over. So you have a frat house AND Rosie Perez right next door. Cool!
I'd pay $1.7 cash for this house. Not a penny more.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:00 PM
who the eff is rosie perez?
now frat guys...that sounds more my speed...
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:04 PM
I love Clinton Hill, but the price is straight CRAZY!. My dream is to own a Town house in this Neigh, event hough I'm perfectly comfortable with my condo in this neigh. But each year the pricing seems to be going higher and higher......
When will it stop!.
Posted by: Wick_or_Stuy at November 29, 2007 4:12 PM
When I click on floorplan it doesn't come up.How many brownstones have 2 separate stairwells? I don't understand.
Quite a few in Bed Stuy to answer your question. They don't have them in the Slope? That is why my neighbor who owns two houses on 6th ave bet. 2nd & 3rd in PS lives on Hancock - and I thought it was for the two car parking she has.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:16 PM
The moldings should have stayed and repaired if not perfect. The price is to high.
People from Park Slope and Manhattan should go back in their bubbles and leave the rest of us to make the world a better place.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:18 PM
Re: who the eff is rosie perez?
"YOU happened again, Billy...YOU happened again..." - White Men Can't Jump
"MOOOKKKIIIEE!!!" - Do The Right Thing
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:20 PM
Lastly, anyone who says PS has better transportation than Fort Greene is a moron.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:11 PM
No they are not, they are just dishonest, ignorant or blind.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:20 PM
"most immigrants settle in the outer boroughs."
Most, not all. Now you're just trying to back pedal out of your original statement that only 10% of people who live in manhattan are unaware of park slope's existence. Manhattan consists of more area's then the UWS, UES, Soho and Tribeca. There's still a pretty substantial immigrant population there.You're just too ignorant to acknowledge it.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:22 PM
ft greene and PS have the same trains.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 2:36 PM
The A/C and the G and Atlantic Terminal with the 2/3/4/5/M/D and LIRR? PS dream on!
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:24 PM
You know it has been such along time since we've had an authentic, nonsensical, troll on this site, that I forgot what it felt like to want to reach into the computer and rip someone's head off. You got us good, 3:50.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 29, 2007 4:28 PM
i stand by my statement that 10% of manahtantites do not know of park slope and 50% do not know of clinton hill.
the latter is probably more like 70%.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:29 PM
THIS HOUSE IS NOT IN FORT GREENE!!!!!!!
IT IS NOT NEAR THE 2/3/4/5/M/D LINES.
IT IS NEAR THE G TRAIN!
for god's sake.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:35 PM
This thread is offically over. Thank you. Your comments have been appreciated. Sufficient information has passed on this matter.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:35 PM
All you bitchers and moaners get me sick. The constant bickering about which neighborhood is better and which is worse is annoying. I don't live in either Park Slope or Clinton Hill but know the house is overpriced. But the home still has it good qualities.
I would like all you home and neighborhood bashers to take pictures of your home put them up, and let all the Brownstoner vultures give there opinions. Then we'll see that one persons budget and sense of taste is not equal the masses.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:36 PM
What's Clinton Hill?
It doesn't matter, the house is overpriced.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:38 PM
The ceilings may have been furred down for the central ac, don't really know I haven't been there.
I have been to big houses in Brooklyn Heights that had a kitchen above and one below even though it was a single family house. The one below was formal and big and the one upstairs was small and more every-day. A mansion like this would not likely be bought by someone who wants a rental unit on top of his head.
The taxes are this high in Brooklyn Heights and in Cobble Hill. Congratulations to Clinton hill it looks like it has arrived in the eyes of the city tax dept. It's still cheap compared to taxes on a two million dollar estate in the suburbs.
Posted by: sam at November 29, 2007 4:47 PM
overpriced by 1 - 1.5 million dollars.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:58 PM
As hard as it is to believe taxes in CH are high. And if the house is on a historic block them 13k sounds about right.
I also have to agree with a few of you when you say that you would rather spend that kind of money PS. I was born and raised in Clinton Hill but for a house that has very little details 3mil is a hell of a lot of money!!! I wouldn't buy it!
A ClintonHillLady
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:58 PM
"The A/C and the G and Atlantic Terminal with the 2/3/4/5/M/D and LIRR? PS dream on"
I live near flatbush in park slope so I have the B/Q abd 2/3. Plus Altantic on the way.
so kinda the same.
Park Slope north of Union st really doesnt have much to do with the rest park slope.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:59 PM
4:47. Only difference on taxes is that in that suburb you get a top school for your dollars, whereas in Clinton Hill...
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:01 PM
ok so the house on Classon was $1.25 and on the other side of Clinton Hill and that was overpriced than this house is insane. NO way the other side of clinton hill is that much worse. and yes ive been to clinton hill
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:02 PM
"Park Slope north of Union st really doesnt have much to do with the rest park slope."
Um....Park Slope north of Union Street IS Park Slope. That is the historic and landmarked district of the neighborhood. It used to be that Park Slope only went down to 3rd Street.
North Park Slope is a helluva lot more Park Slope than anything below 9th Street, that's for sure.
Whatever that means.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:09 PM
Now the Park Slopers are fighting amongst themselves. Ah the inhumanity.
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 29, 2007 5:35 PM
50% of the people in manhattan, hell 75% of the people in manhattan don't know very much about any of brooklyn, They've heard about williamsburg and dumbo... because they can see it. otherwise in the minds of manhattanites anybody that lives in brooklyn lives in a subpar neighborhood PARK SLOPE included.
we know this to be false.
remember how nasty the meatpacking district was(is)- now it has out paced soho in marketability.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:43 PM
Price looks okay to me. And no I'm not the broker or the seller or anything. I think a lot of homes in worse condition sell for much more than they are worth considering how much money you have to put in to them. In general I think either the market overvalues houses that need considerable work or else it undervalues houses that are done. See for yourself how much a good or even halfway good reno costs and you will appreciate the hard work some sellers have put in to their places.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:45 PM
"What's Clinton Hill?"
The tent in Bill's pants?
Drum roll, please...
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:54 PM
Well it's certainly very big. And I don't mean the tent in Bill's pants.
But is the reason the taxes are so high purely because it was once an SRO? Wouldn't a new C of O (at some point) cause a new assessment and, one would think, a lowing of that very large number?
Posted by: Johnny at November 29, 2007 6:03 PM
THIS HOUSE IS NOT IN FORT GREENE!!!!!!!
IT IS NOT NEAR THE 2/3/4/5/M/D LINES.
IT IS NEAR THE G TRAIN!
for god's sake.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 4:35 PM
Never said the house was, I was comparing FG to PS. Duh!
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 6:19 PM
ok so the house on Classon was $1.25 and on the other side of Clinton Hill and that was overpriced than this house is insane. NO way the other side of clinton hill is that much worse. and yes ive been to clinton hill
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 5:02 PM
You may have been there but you don't know what you are talking about so go back.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 6:23 PM
The digression on neighborhoods is really annoying. Okay, let's pretend this house is in Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights. I still wouldn't buy it for $3 million dollars or even $2 million because the layout doesn't work for me. If I have to renovate anyway, why not get a house for $2 million that needs work?
Here's what I hate: washer dryer is 2 or 3 floors below bedroom floors. There is NO usable tenant apartment -- I don't want to pay $3 million dollars so my tenants have to walk through my private space every day. No thanks, I woudn't live in that house with tenants if you paid me. So, you have to pay to re-configure the tenant apartment or build an internal stair. And to those that say you can use the place as a one-family -- well, who needs that much space anyway? I don't want a kitchen next to my bedroom. I'd rather buy a 4-story house for less money with a better layout.
Finally, the renovation really isn't anything special and not to my taste anyway.
Maybe there's someone out there who loves this layout and design and by all means they should buy the place, but I'd pass on this no matter what neighborhood it was in.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 6:42 PM
6:42:
If you would not buy this house for 3 million dollars in Brooklyn Heights you would be an idiot.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 7:26 PM
"i stand by my statement that 10% of manahtantites do not know of park slope and 50% do not know of clinton hill. the latter is probably more like 70%. "
I stand by my assessment of your ignorance. Oh, and for the record, "manhattanite's" is a label a die-hard manhattan resident places on themselves (if they so choose), not a turn of phrase to be applied to someone that lives in the boro. I can't really picture a resident of east harlem referring to themselves as such. But then, I'm sure in your deluded little mind, east harlem really isn't manhattan.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 7:29 PM
just a little something for "the what"
http://www.therealdeal.net/breaking_news/2007/11/29/1196376631.php
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 7:55 PM
Place is not that overpriced.
Don't get excited. Here's what's happening, from my perspective and that of my colleagues and friends:
Despite what your inferiority complex might be telling you, Manhattan isn't where all the rich people are, and BK isn't some place to go bargain shopping (any more) for real estate. In fact, much of manhattan is rent-stabilized. Part of its charm is the diversity of backgrounds, including fresh off the boaters.
Meanwhile, BK is getting safer, so people like me and my friends, who have money but are still fairly young, are feeling the need to make a home. Manhattan doesn't offer "home" unless you're uber wealthy and can spend 10 mil on a townhouse on the upper east side. (And even then, who wants to live in that armpit of tweed and crappy restaurants?) Anyway, we're not uber wealthy, just well-to-do, and our success is growing. We'd like to invest in something with potential not just in terms of real estate but in terms of the neighborhood: something that has or will have new restaurants, interesting people, youth.
We are often in the creative fields (Manhattan being a center for advertising, fashion, design, publishing, gaming, entertainment industries). We make good money and are beginning to make VERY good money.
We might want kids, and some of us have one or two already. Schools are slowly getting better, maybe more so with our involvement, but if not, there are private school or home school options. None of us give a fk about PS so and so being the top school, cause from where we're standing, our kids will be ok as long as we just let them be.
West Village is nice, but way too pricey for what it offers, considering the other options - FG or CH. Convenient, yes, but so damn loud and obnoxious when we come home, basically disgusting and overcrowded, and recently, kinda dangerous.
East Village has few beautiful buildings, very little space, and def not peaceful or homey.
Lower East Side: Same.
Williamsburg: ugly environment, no trees, tons of trashy NYUers.
Park Slope: upper west side
BrooklynHeights: ditto
So here we are, in CH or FG, where the cafes and bars, though few and far between, are decent to good quality, and more are opening up. Transportation is ok, esp if you ride a bike (most of us try to much as we can). And most importantly, it feels LIKE ITSELF, its own neighborhood, and therefore our own neighborhood. Not "kinda like east village," or "kinda like upper west side" -- it has its own architectural, cultural and historical flavor. We're aesthetes. We dig it.
Why now? Just cause it's safer. And the Manhattan Bridge train lines have been working again.
I'm just speaking for all the people I know looking for, finding, and buying those few houses that are on the market in this area.
Why is it pricey? Because there a few of them, and many of us, and we're willing to pay, even if it means having tenants and an inconvenient layout, for now.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 8:22 PM
Whoever said putting up moldings is simple and cheap is out of their mind.
But I still agree with them: moldings are a MUST. And the paint scheme in this place just reeks.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 8:38 PM
8:22- well said. after living in both ch&fg for many, many years, i'd like to add that western bed stuy, (despite what the haters on this site would say) embodies that same spirit, maybe minus the many cafes, although i'd say they're coming. in fact, most of the creative, successful types i know are moving or looking around here for the very same reasons you mentioned. that's my bit.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 8:50 PM
I didn't say it before but I will say it now: putting up modlings really is simple and cheap. Here's how it works: 1) Go to Dyke's lumber. 2) Pick out moldings you like. 3) Buy a couple of feet worth of samples of each. (Tip: write down the order number on back of sample before you leave Dykes. 3) Take them home see which ones you like best. 4) Have your carpenter measure the amount of linear feet needed. 5) You or carpenter or contractor orders materials. 6) They prime them before putting them up. 7) They cut material (slight training necessary here to cut corners properly. 8) They put them up.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 9:16 PM
8:22:
you sound like an informercial.
We're young, we're cool.
Our wines? French!
Our clothes? Italian!
our sex? hot!
our neighborhood? Clinton Hill!
Why? because we're hip...and we're realtors and we're begging, begging, that you believe this.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 9:19 PM
i think that was a monstrous load of crap, 8:22
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 9:20 PM
I must laugh at 8:22 since I think it's absurd to think it's OK to drop this much money on this house. I used to live in FG/CH and agree that Clinton Ave is very nice, and while the neighborhood suffers from a lack of services, that's starting to change. But putting aside the neighborhood, which is certainly decent, this house just isn't worth it. I also don't quite get the horror over the lack of moldings -- I just think the layout, size and overall renovation do not merit this cost. Crazy overreaching at what I hope i the last gasp of an insane market (and I own, I just am sickened by the growing disparities in wealth between the rich and everyone else).
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 10:12 PM
8:22:
Don't get excited. Here's what's happening, from my perspective and that of my colleagues and friends:
We used to live in Chelsea, the East Village, Manhattan Valley, and in an illegal sublet in the east 60s. But they closed our sex clubs down, and we got a little old to be hanging out at the Hanger. So we went out for brunch with a friend in Fort Greene before her really was any place to have brunch. We remembered we'd been at Two Steps Down when it was our kind of bar. We saw the mixture of queers, artists. So we bought, rented, shared. None of us ever thought Brooklyn (BK is for t-shirts) wasn't safe. Hell we lived across the hall from drug dealers in Manhattan!
We don't make much money at all (at least by the standards of the people on Curbed or Brownstoner). We are public interest lawyers, progressive filmmakers, massage therapists, computer nerds, and writers (remember when Colson Whitehead lived in Clinton Hill?)
None of us ever gave a second thought about whether or not the Manhattan Bridge lines were running or not. And again what is the babble about it being "safer"? Is that some sort of talking point. For us of the lighter side of pale, being the minority didn't mean dangerous. And anyway, the robbers lurk near the better blocks, while the drug dealers and whores allow the poor to pass unmolested in the far east section, The bars we go to (Outpost, Grand 275, Rope, etc) are still browner than "Green."
Those of us who have bothered to spawn attempt to send our apes to the local schools only to be told that our kind aren't all that welcome (thanks Principal Sean Keaton of PS 20). So we flee to PS 261, the East Village, Brooklyn New School, or some (but no one we know) to pirbate school (oh a few are trying to make 11 work).
Do we buy 3 million dollar houses. Fuck no. We rent. We buy fixer uppers between Grand and Nostrand. We buy a two bedroom in Clinton Hill Coops.
Then why does Jon feature pos mansions? Because he knows that even the best of us love to talk about ourselves and criticize others. And he gets paid by the hit. Chi-ching
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 29, 2007 10:13 PM
Fort Greene near Flatbush is very convenient to a multitude of subway lines. This place is near the (awful) G Train and somewhat near the C. I live in FG not near the trains and it is a nuisance. This is a beautiful building, but that price is ludicrous.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 10:18 PM
8:22 - "I'm just speaking for all the people I know looking for, finding, and buying those few houses that are on the market in this area." OK, as long as you acknowledge that the "we" you represent isn't the majority of CH homeowners. The "we" of "me" is the contingent now known as "oldtimers," who have been making their homes here for at least a couple decades and in some cases own multiple houses occupied by our extended families. We may not be wealthy (other than on paper, as our RE has appreciated thanks primarily to our own efforts that started making the area attractive to you wealthy folks), but we far outnumber the "we" of "you," and are watching in bemusement as you wealthy discover us plebians. Many of us have just as many graduate degrees as you do, but somewhat different priorities. Many of us long ago figured out how to raise children we can be proud of in this very same neighborhood. Try not to treat us with too much condescension (as in "when do you think that gorgeous house occupied by the two little old ladies will come on the market" - when the ladies in question are a mother with a daughter in her early forties who grew up in that house, both of whom worked on its top-notch restoration and remain in excellent health, and neither of whom are interested in selling in the forseeable future). Try not to ring our doorbells and offer to buy our houses for prices that "for you, would be a lot of money" (we're not as close to senility as you might think, and less affected by vacillations in house prices, since we don't have massive mortgages to deal with). CH is our home, and it's nice to see it being appreciated by a new generation. But please try to control the house lust and let us live in peace as you discover the neighborhood we've appreciated for a very long time.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 10:30 PM
8:22 sounds like a pompous ass. If this is who's buying in CH, lord help the neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 11:14 PM
um...almost no one here had house lust, 10:30.
99% of people on this thread seem to hate the house, think the most important details were stripped out, did a half ass renovation job and overpriced it.
not to mention this house is a flip job.
this is not being sold by someone who grew up in it.
they are greedy.
plain and simple.
the hood isn't 3 million dollar great.
i'd say 1.5 million great.
on a good day.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 11:30 PM
8:22 = perfect caricature of the repulsive, self-obsessed, narcissistic, materialistic, NY yuppie. Or a broker.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 11:48 PM
I'm 8:22.
That was vulgar, but I had to do it. You can chit chat all you want about values of this hood and values of that hood, and no one wants to come out and actual describe the yucky buyers.
Thanks, Putnamdenizen, for putting it all in perspective. This is precisely what this web site is all about: building the cliche neighborhoods for the cliche buyers.
But we're all cliches, from you Putnam, to 10:30, to the "load of crap" person who doesn't have a response except for, well, "load of crap". We just have to admit that we love this area, for SOME reason, and enjoy it together. The territorialism is lame lame lame lame lame.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 11:53 PM
10:30 - you rock!
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 11:59 PM
Beautifully put, 10:30.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:06 AM
2:03 "When I click on floorplan it doesn't come up.How many brownstones have 2 separate stairwells? I don't understand."
Alot of them do. I own a 2-family brownstone that has a true duplex on the garden and parlor levels with its own dedicated staircase and an apartment on the top floor.
On my block, all the brownstones have the same or very similar layouts with dual staircases.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 12:36 AM
10:30 and putnamdenizen why do you deride people who appreciate the same neighborhood as you, but happen to have the money to buy into it at today's prices? PD, I was in diapers when you were stepping over the crack whores you speak of with such respect. Sorry I was too busy learning fractions to buy the apt. you bought for so little and sold for enough to buy your house. Sorry I worked my ass off in school and got a good job that pays an absurd amount of money. I guess I was supposed to stay as poor as my parents (who lived in here decades before you were in diapers) started out. Then you would feel better about my moving in beside you. Problem is, if I had I wouldn't be able to afford the house your neighbors are selling for millions. Nobody said they were better than you because they had some money or a few degrees. In fact, 8:22 said they liked the houses and the feel of the area - you may be part of what they liked. You are the ones saying you are superior for buying when you did and bemused by those trying to find a house now. Well, F you neighbor. See you at the block party.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 3:00 AM
3:00 am. If you thought I was deriding you, then you needed to go to bed. I was deriding the breezy prose of the realtor who posted what I parodied. I made no comment negative or positive about the people 8:22 claimed were buying houses in the neighborhood, and who you now confirm exactly exist. What she didn't say was that they had no sense of humor or prospective. Take a chill pill dude.
P.S. I never told you to f off, only that the people I know wouldn't be buying a so-so house for 3 million dollars. We can't afford to, and quite frankly if I had 3 million I could think of a lot better ways to spend it. But you go right ahead and spend your money how you want. It is yours. Until the revolution of course, then, well then we will see....
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 30, 2007 7:59 AM
12:36 what blocks have these? I'm not trying to stalk you, I swear, just your houses. I promise I won't ring your doorbell and offer money because apparently that's offensive somehow. I'll just cruise by now and then looking for realtors' signs.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 9:44 AM
Putnam Denizen,8:22here. I'm not a realtor, just a realist. Yeah, my writing is a bit cheesy, sorry. But I am right about the buyers.
Just can't understand why everyone's so damned upset.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 4:38 PM
To 8:22,
As a long life Clinton Hill resident for over 40 years, I totally agree with your comment.
Posted by: guest at December 6, 2007 7:47 AM
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