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November 26, 2007
House of the Day: 411 Classon Avenue
We'll say this for 411 Classon Avenue—it's a better flip job than you generally see in the area. The four-story brownstone between Lexington and Greene on the Bed Stuy side of Classon changed hands two years ago for $890,000. Given the time that's elapsed and the fact that the kitchens, floors and back yard all look redone, the current asking price of $1,245,000 doesn't sounds crazy. Unfortunately, that's not how sales prices are ultimately determined. We suspect that the supply and demand curves may intersect a good bit below this price. After all, while blocks on either side of it keep getting nicer and it has some nice houses, it's hard to see how Classon Avenue as a whole ever really catches up. Agree?
411 Classon Avenue [NY Times] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
I don't feel like doing it, someone do the fucking math on this clusterfuck. I bet you don't cover your monthly nut.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 1:38 PM
Looks like a nice house on a sketchy block.
Posted by: sam at November 26, 2007 1:39 PM
Why is the brownstone yellow? Is it paint?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 1:40 PM
this really isn't bed stuy either. it needs a name!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 1:43 PM
I think this stretch of Classon (from, say, Putnam to Lafayette) has improved a hell of a lot over the past five years or so, as have many of the blocks between Classon and Franklin. It really looks like an extension of Clinton Hill now, rather than the half-a-block-good, half-a-block-not-so-good qualities of the blocks between Franklin and and Nostrand.
Posted by: rf at November 26, 2007 1:43 PM
Increasingly, I am hearing Franklin given as the eastern boundary of Clinton Hill.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 1:48 PM
nice try. from classon to bedford (except for clifton place) it's all the same. greene between franklin and bedford is much nicer than the block on which the HOTD sits & are we going to pretend that lexington between classon and franklin is better that anything other than the aforementioned clifton place block? my real point? clifton place between franklin and bedford is the ugliest street in the western world.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 1:51 PM
it might be interesting for bed stuy to start at bedford.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 1:53 PM
& end at stuyvesant. & everything else has to sort itself out. the neighborhood already lends itself to this--well except the nice blocks beyond stuyvesant. there is both a variety (light industry) and sameness (type of brownstones) between grand & bedford actually.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:00 PM
I wouldn't pay that to live anywhere in Clinton Hill. It's still crime ridden and has terrible schools.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:01 PM
"I am hearing Franklin given as the eastern boundary of Clinton Hill."
---from all those people who don't want to be in the Stuy. The border is Classon. East of Classon, you are in the Stuy.
As for the house ---nice job. I think $1.2 might be a little tough in that stretch of Bed Stuy. You can barely get that price for the houses surrounding the heights.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:02 PM
nothing beats having double-doors open up your kitchen to your bedroom!
Posted by: z at November 26, 2007 2:02 PM
Change the name!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:07 PM
yes! great for those late-night snacks! or sleep-eating on ambien...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:09 PM
I knew someone on Greene b/w Classon + Franklin and was on this block many times between 1999-2004. There is a homeless shelter on Lexington and a large project superblock on Lafayette. This area will never gentrify properly.
Save your cash for when the Fed is forced to raise % rates due to inflation in about 6-18 months. After that the price of this house will be under 600k - which is still too much for this part of town.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:11 PM
i love hearing people say that they wouldn't be caught dead living in clinton hill....HA HA HA to you. same people who think that they've "discovered" ft greene. go ahead and wait, then you'll feel more comfortable paying above market to live in a "great" neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:16 PM
Are the windows in the building next door boarded up? Looks like it in the photo above.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:18 PM
so, don't live in clinton hill. irrelevant since this is not clinton hill. what's wrong with you?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:22 PM
No those are not boarded up windows. Those are pink shutters that you close when there are hurricanes. Where have you been?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:24 PM
Nice to see the Clinton Hill/BedStuy border rant again-it's been too long....
Lets face it-IT DOESN"T MATTER whether you're east or west of classon by two or three blocks-it's the same neighborhood and house prices don't change as you cross the street-nor does anything else.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:33 PM
1:51,
Even Lexington is much better than it was. I remember in the early 90s when there were hookers doing business in cars on Lexington between Grand and Franklin, every day regardless of the hour.
Most of my experience these days is on the B52 bus which turns from Gates to Greene/Greene to Gates at Classon or Frankin depending on the direction, and the B26 which goes to/from Putnam on Grand or Classon depending on the direction.
The area on the other side of Lafayette is very different, with Pratt, the high-rise towers, and the projects separating the parts with Fulton St. as the main street from the parts with Myrtle as the main street.
Posted by: rf at November 26, 2007 2:33 PM
This IS Bed Stuy. The East Side of Classon is where Bedstuy begins... (scores cringe since thier broker told them it was Clinton Hill, alas It IS Bed Stuy)
IMO Classon could very well morph into a nice street - but it does have a bit to go... That being said the location in general is great - and if the house is fully renovated, the price is not so far off the mark given the current comps.
It only takes one buyer.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:41 PM
All four corners of Greene and Classon SUCK. The bus stop wall SUCKS! It's ugly and not worth the money. It's not nice. Now, if those corners were better. I remember a diner on one of those corners....
And this area has nothing to do with Bed-Stuy really. Well except for the population and class I mean.
No wait! Even the pop & class is different. Young whites are all over this area. I don't know if they have any more money than the older population. Not so, further "in". This population distinction between this area--from Classon (really Grand) to Bedford--to THE REAL BED-STUY is striking.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:54 PM
Just walked by there yesterday. The house next door is a huge problem!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:55 PM
It can't morph into a nice street with those horrific corners.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 2:55 PM
Nice Nice stories. Wonderful people in Real Estate. Loving caring people. Say hello to the meltdown!
Centereach woman pays debt, loses house anyway
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/suffolk/ny-lihome1124,0,1261349.story
Read the comments. You'll like them LMMFAO 1.2 Million for a shithole. Negative money flows. Gotta love America, where hard work don't count anymore.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:06 PM
Whats the huge problem next door?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:06 PM
"Save your cash for when the Fed is forced to raise % rates due to inflation in about 6-18 months. After that the price of this house will be under 600k - which is still too much for this part of town."
Very good advice. Not sure about the timing but it is inevitable. The dollar will rebound.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:15 PM
This house looks great... and the price seems rather nice... Traffic might be a little busy on Classon...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:26 PM
The neighborhood doesn't suck! The corners often suck. Down w/ yucky corner stores! But many of the blocks are charming. As long as Crack is kept at Bay and Meth makes no Stay then all good will Proliferate.
Hey What?
How much will this house cost per month?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:27 PM
not only is this Bed Stuy, but it is the bad part of Bed Stuy.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:29 PM
Logic someone?
This part of Bed-Stuy needs work. It has improved over the last ten years immeasurably however.
It shares a border with Clinton Hill. Not to long ago Grand Ave. was a nightmare. Now it's not. Classon was disgusting, now it's merely unpleasant to improving. Franklin was frightening now it's not that bad to good in some spots.
There is new building and revitalization happening in the no man's land between Classon and Bedford / Nostrand.
But should someone pay 1.2? I.2?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:39 PM
I WENT TO SEE IT.
Sorry to 'shout', but thought some might be more interested in a comment from someone who saw inside rather than simply had an opinion from the name of the street.
Yes the bathrooms and 1 kitchen are new, but they didn't cost the owner 300k+. If you owned it, you would have chosen something else and if you buy it, you will want to redo them. The 'landscaped' back yard is tiny as this is a short lot. The floors look crappy and have strange transitions to tile (linoleum ?) in the central kitchens/kitchenettes of the 2 upper floor-throughs. The top floor hasn't been redone at all and has more of a kitchenette. The parlor/garden are duplexed with and ugly spiral staircase inside. There is some original wood and plasterwork left, but doesn't look like it was ever spectacular.
As for the specifics of this block regardless of what neighborhood you want to call it, the owner himself told me a few things. The boarded up place next door has entered foreclosure and the one on the other side is empty and in transition due to someone getting to old to maintain/stay in it. There's new construction stalled across the street. Etc.
I wish him luck, but the work he did shouldn't earn anyone that profit.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:40 PM
This is not the bad park of Bed-Stuy... a little twilight zoneish but not bad... Bedford Stuyvesant should be split up into four hoods like it was 100 years ago...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:47 PM
like 4 of the rings of hell, 3:47?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 3:53 PM
this is clinton hill. bed stuy starts at franklin.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:06 PM
true Bedford Stuyvesant starts after Franklin
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:19 PM
this is brooklyn heights, ft greene starts at classon!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:22 PM
Classion is changing every year for the better... I think this house is going to go for $1,150,000.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:23 PM
Who cares what the name of the area is called hell its New York City... Now lets look at the house... Nice brownstone thats close to downtown Brooklyn...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:26 PM
What really makes this area bad are those 3 family bad architecture new construction homes being built on the empty lots. I am sure Bedford, Nostrand, Franklin, and Classon will change with time... Seems like something is going to happen to Fulton Street...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:30 PM
"Hey What?
How much will this house cost per month?"
Ok here we go! $1,245,000 price, I will say this is owner occupied, Every on wants to live here (ha ha).
20% of 1,245,000 is 249,000 leaves a Mortgage amount of 996000 plus closing cost 37,000 and you must have PITI reserves of 40,000 6 months of payments
Monthly payment: 30 Years
Interest rate: 7.750%
Loan amount: $ 996,000.00
$ 7,135.47 a month
This figure does not have Insurance, taxes and other cost!
Now this is a 3 family. I checked MLS. By the way it's a LLC flip.
2 2 bedrooms and a Duplex. What can we get for rent?
2 Bedroom 1800 per month with the owner in the duplex. Well I can add 75% from the retails to the owners income. This leaves about 4,000k per month for the owner to cover. Well... how muck would a duplex would rent for 3000k per month? And don't get me that bull shit about Tax deductions, you have to include rentail income and show a lost.
You are in the suck for about 2000k per month. I would offer 400k and tell the greedy fucks to go to hell. people there is NO MORE price appreciation!!!!!!!!!! The game is over! Whew.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:30 PM
Someday What, Someday....
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:35 PM
close to downtown brooklyn? sure compared to long island! nah, it's about a thirty minute walk i'd say.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:36 PM
downtown starts at Washington Ave these days
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:49 PM
Foreclosed or otherwise abandoned buildings on both sides? That bodes well.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:52 PM
this is not clinton hill
this is ugly sid of bedstuy
good luck
i dont like (most of) clinton hill
i really dont like this
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:54 PM
I walked by this about 2 hours ago. I had a friend who lived at the corner of livingston and classon for a few months and she didnt have any problems. The whole area still looks like it went through a small war. Good if you want to live in alphabet city circa 1980 not good if you want to raise a family. Area is going to be slammed with hipsters soon and already is to a certain degree.
ok alphabet city minus all the cool punk stuff and decent hip hop.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:57 PM
This kinda area is why I came to NYC... I did not want to live in the UES... I like this part of Brooklyn just the way it is.. just not loving the price....
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 4:59 PM
Yeah this area is east village 1982
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:01 PM
I went to see the property as well. Overall, I think the owner did a good job with the renovations. He mentioned the same thing to me about the boarded up house on the left finally going into foreclosure (according to nyc dept of finance records) so it may be showing up on the auction block in the months to come. A few weeks ago I saw workers in the other (brown colored) house on the right. Oh by the way, people please stop PAINTING YOUR FACADES!! He mentioned that his current asking price includes redoing the facade as well as putting installing some original entry way doors he had sitting in the hallway. I still think 1.245m is a bit high. I agree with 423pm. It'll go for well below that...closer to 1,150,000.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:04 PM
430pm...he said he is getting $2400 for the duplex and $1400 for the top floor rental (the one not renovated). Assuming the renovated third floor apartment gets at least the same as the top floor, thats $5200.
Are these really the rents in BEDSTY??? WOW!!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:09 PM
430pm...he said he is getting $2400 for the duplex and $1400 for the top floor rental (the one not renovated). Assuming the renovated third floor apartment gets at least the same as the top floor, thats $5200.
Are these really the rents in BEDSTY??? WOW!!
Hipsters Rent. Crack for everyone else.
The What
Someday this war is gonna end....
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:18 PM
I like painted facades. Park Slope gets boring sometimes because everything is brown. I like color.
Adams Morgan in DC has the right idea.
also along with the east village stuff. Someone needs to open up a punk club or avant-garde venue similar to Tonic. The LES is dead and theres so many venues in Williamsburg.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:22 PM
hipsters usually work shitty jobs and live in the cheapest places they can find.
hipsters arnt paying high dollar for places unless they actually make money and work jobs and then that kinda makes them not hipsters.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:24 PM
Buy one of the ones on either side and redo them yourself. Cut this guy and his extra 300k out of the picture.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:25 PM
How much rent does 'the what' pay, and what neighborhood does 'the what' live in?
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:26 PM
This is clinton hill. The brownstone is way overpriced for the area. Classon is gross and it smells like shit.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:29 PM
"Oh by the way, people please stop PAINTING YOUR FACADES!!"
Mind your own business. It's MY facade, and I'll paint it DAYGLO ORANGE if the mood strikes me! Get your own facade and you can NOT paint it, if you want.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:29 PM
It's Bed Stuy. East of Classon is Bed Stuy despite what the brokers tell you. That's why the proposed historic district extensions for Clinton Hill end at Classon, and why the FG/Clinton Hill rezoning ended at Classon, and the police precinct jurisdiction for Clinton Hill ends at Classon, etc. etc.
I think it has potential, but I agree that Classon as a street has a way to go. Then again, you would be hard pressed to get a run down place that needs a gut job at that price a block or two west of this location.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:45 PM
i'm almost done with visiting this site. it seems that there is only a tiny percentage of folks who have a clue about real estate and nyc in general. the rest of you are so conservative, uptight and downright out of it...the whole bed stuy "debate" is laughable.
if you lived here, as i do, you would know that this area is rapidly changing for the better. have any of you been to tiny cup? or the YMCA down the street? i love it here. i like living with people who, despite maybe not having much money, are wonderful neighbors. and i also like living with the (many) wealthier families who are putting down roots and buying and renovating these gorgeous brownstones. as my mother always said, "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:48 PM
This house will sell for 800K. It will be worth 600k next year.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:55 PM
"as my mother always said, "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all..."
Tell your mother to SHUT UP!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:56 PM
well saying that normally isn't meant to be nice now is it.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 5:57 PM
I think this area makes sense for people looking for a brownstone or Yellowstone. The prices at this end of Clinton Hill/Bedford are really good compared to all the other Brownstone belt neighborhoods. More money will get pumped into this area and this home is going to be worth double this price in 7 years. If i had the money I would buy this home...
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 6:03 PM
"this home is going to be worth double this price in 7 years"
Or half.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 6:05 PM
who wants to open up a nasty jazz and noise venue in bed stuy with me.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 6:17 PM
Based on public records and a little detective work, it looks like Clinton Hill will be getting a new private school. According to Property Shark, the folks behind Tilden Avenue-based Phyl's Academy purchase the 4,300-square-foot lot at the corner of Classon and Quincy for an undisclosed price on March 15. Does anyone know what the timing or scope of the project is? The program in its current location is nursery through 5th grade.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 6:21 PM
HA! Keep your negative ass' right you are safe because just like you said many moments ago that Fort Greene was no good. Keep saying it and watch you will not be able to afford that either and your ass will be living in safe East New York.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 6:24 PM
I live a block north and across the street. The east side of the street is Bed-Stuy and the zip code actually changes to prove it. That said, there's not much difference from one side of Classon to the other. The house next door is boarded up (which sucks), but they're putting at least one huge 12 floor building around the corner on Greene (right before Franklin)and there looks to be a couple of loft conversions around the other corner on Lexington. (In fact, there are at least SEVEN buildings being built or converted within a block of this address. YIKES! I moved from the West Village to get away from this...)
And for those of you who think is a dangerous street, the Classon Ave station is about two blocks away and there are people walking to and from that station at all hours...especially on the weekend.
Personally, I like to refer to it as West-Bed-Stuy or West-Bed, but it's still Bed-Stuy (which used to go all the way to St James place, so go figure).
Posted by: BKNYKEV at November 26, 2007 6:35 PM
one more thing- i think it's interesting to note that whenever this area (westbed/clinton hill/bedstuy border, whatever) comes up for discussion, the threads are about a mile long... HOT!! if i had the $$ to buy another house in this area, i would do it in a heartbeat.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 6:49 PM
I think the people who make the negative comments really do not leave their homes at all. That entire area is really booming. Starting at Choice on Lafayette Avenue and if you head to Franklin Avenue to Cafe Lafayette which is delicious and across the street is a delicious bakery. This neighborhood is considered Clinton Hill. The successful co-op on Clifton Place and Classon is a fine place to live. Lexington Avenue have some of the most beautiful residental loft and I do not see those apartments selling for less than $750K. This was at one point cosidered a industrial neighborhood but it has been doing very well on most blocks. The corner of Classon & Greene that has two store and three apartments is up for foreclosure as well. These people that are in foreclosure has held on to these properties for dear life but they can no longer hold on and refuse or are unable to get the proper help. Sit and Continue to talk your shit about this area and you will be eating your words WHEN THE WAR IS OVER.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 7:06 PM
There is no question in my mind this area has a lot of potential. I like the eclectic architecture. Classon itself is much improved but will remain a major thoroughfare for trucks/cars going to the BQE. That said when I was looking at the co-op at the corner of Clifton and Classon in 1997, I was told by the broker (!) that the people who had bought there in the 80s had been hit hard by slump and were just then able to sell their units. I think if I were buying again I would buy my own fixer upper rather than paying for someone else's improvements in the area. (But really it isn't Clinton Hill, which ends at Classon. The only people who "consider" it Clinton Hill are realtors.)
Posted by: Putnamdenizen at November 26, 2007 7:28 PM
i doubt it will fetch much over 1 million. that said, i love this neighborhood. i have money and could have bought anywhere in NYC. i chose to live a few blocks from this. the neighborhood, whatever you choose to call it, is wonderful imo.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 7:28 PM
sounds like the folks who live near this house are pumping the area up because they want to sell and haul ass outta there and move somewhere decent. Hey y'all, this is the deepest, blackest, fugliest, poorest-ass part of the Brooklyn hood.
I love the guy who said that this is really Brooklyn heights! Ha! and walking distance to gramercy Park! ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 7:40 PM
Do or die? I vote do!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 8:39 PM
"sounds like the folks who live near this house are pumping the area up because they want to sell and haul ass outta there and move somewhere decent. Hey y'all, this is the deepest, blackest, fugliest, poorest-ass part of the Brooklyn hood."
7:40 if you really believe that you REALLY need to get out more, and if you got out more you would perhaps have an income to allow you to buy something.
Bedstuy is central brooklyn.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 8:48 PM
Bedstuy is cenral Brooklyn.
Right.
if you got out of the boro a little more you would know that bed stuy is
central casting for slum/ghetto/hellhole.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 9:08 PM
"blackest, fugliest"
whaa? No the blackest and whitest and sweetest....dude, everybody is here. haven't you heard? ever walk down franklin ave at night? knee deep in hipness--black white yellow brown all here...stay away! if you don't know, don't come.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 9:11 PM
no one in their right mind would walk down franklin at night.
you are doing a serious disservice to many single females (and others) who are apt to get into trouble with advice like that.
boosting a neighborhood is one thing.
to tell outright lies about the safety of an area is downright vicious.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 9:33 PM
go back to shady side, pa! real women have No problem here. and i went to bryn mawr!
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 9:37 PM
From every person from Bed Stuy I've encountered on this blog, there does not seem to be more of a mean-spirited sense of hate by any other group.
Even the Park Slope boosters are more welcoming.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 9:56 PM
don't forget the crown heights boosters. they are full of quite a bit of hate as well.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 10:10 PM
My, my, my...
TheGrammarLady here,
Well, there has been a lot said on this thread. Not much really...but a lot said. Such arguing.
Frankly, the house on its merits: it's rather ugly with a lousy looking redo and ice-skating rink polyurethaned floors. You have to feel sorry for the people who get themselves into these real estate deals, hoping to turn a huge profit a year or two after buying. Just like in the late 80's into the early 90's, there will be those left holding the bag.
I'm glad we're all set for the time being.
Don't get up that way too much unfortunately but when I have it appears to be fine. People are posting about it as though it's Fort Apache. Please, Kids, let's not exaggerate.
FG/TGL
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 10:50 PM
i live in park slope and like both bed stuy and crown heights.
also If you told someone in 1975 that a 1bed on ave B was going to sell anywhere above 500k in 2007 they would have shot you.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 10:54 PM
Franklin is perfectly fine at night, I've never had a problem or really felt uncomfortable regardless of the time. However, there are times walking back from the train that I rarely see anything but skinny jeans and messenger bags.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 11:08 PM
yeah...in cartons about to be sold on the black market, maybe.
Posted by: guest at November 26, 2007 11:44 PM
anyone who is saying you can't walk on franklin at night knows NOTHING about this neighborhood NOW. Nothing.
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 8:15 AM
There is a very interesting issue here, that has been identified by at least two people so far: everytime this neighborhood, which clearly feels like part of Clinton Hill is discussed, there seems to be high level of vitriol, and misinformation concerning the safety of the neighborhood. The discussion is also mile's long.
I live two blocks away, and have seen the area change before my eyes...particularly in the last 12 months.
I think any rational person would agree, that price is a function of desirability. The more people that want it, the more it costs. That's why it's more expensive to buy in established neighborhoods. If this neighborhood was incredibly desirable right now, the house would sell for more than $1.2M. But smart people look for neighborhoods in transition. And this is clearly a neighborhood in transition. The new developments on Greene and Lexington clearly demonstrate that, as well as the overall feel of the area.
I am guessing that a lot of the 'hate' comes from people who bought in the 'REAL' Bed-Stuy, who have seen their area stall. If this area is as bad as they are saying - which, incidentally, it isn't - they why would they have such strong feelings about people trying to better it? Surely gentrification is better than the horror that is portrayed.
The answer can be seen in the raw emotion of the posts. This level of emotion is rarely a product of common sense. It usually comes from a deeper cause....
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 9:33 AM
"I live two blocks away, and have seen the area change before my eyes...particularly in the last 12 months."
crime is up significantly in that portion of "clinton hill" this year, btw.
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 10:49 AM
9:33,
You make excellent points. This part of Bed-Stuy has always been a step child of sorts. It is clearly not Clinton Hill but it is also very different from the more stable parts of Bed-Stuy. That is why it is so exciting in some way. In its liminality people can put meaning on it. For those wanting the raw, you have it. For those looking for transition, this is the place for you. For those looking for affordable brownstones one or two blocks from Clinton Hill, again, this can be a choice.
This area can only get better because of the pressure from Williamsburg, Pratt & Clinton Hill. In a section that literally had only three white faces for almost twenty years, the shift has been unbelievable. About 17-20 years ago the city planted trees and put in new sidewalks. Where did they stop? Bedford Avenue.
Crime will be a major factor in the further development of this section. So people should be very proactive and anticipate the problems associated with truly poor people on lexington living next to a 1.5 mil loft. I don't think the less affluent people from the community really understand the wealth of some of the newcomers.
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 1:28 PM
I live a block away and have been there for two years (on the broken angel block) and the 'visible' crime has gone down signficantly, the demographics have been steadily changing. On my street alone, there are 4 to 5 developments that are ongoing - albiet at a snail's pace - including the private school on the corner and a dance studio by the same group where the quincy garage is. What is needed is one good store on classon to get the ball rolling.
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 2:36 PM
Yes, you should buy in Park Slope, you'll feel safer there.
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 4:01 PM
park slope is much nicer, i agree.
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 4:16 PM
& i prefer vail
Posted by: guest at November 27, 2007 10:45 PM
haha seriously?
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 9:19 AM
RE: the house. It has some nice details. Could use a paint job and I think its a bit overpriced, especially with the current market state. But maybe that's the realtor's strategy. Give the seller some room for the low bidding offers that will surely come because it's currently a buyers market.
RE: the posts. Wow, there is a lot of ill will being spewed on this board regarding this neighborhood. My parents raised our family just a couple of blocks away on Madison btw Franklin and Classon. I lived there from '83 till I went away to college in the early 90s and the neighborhood has improved dramatically from the hit it took in the late 80s with the crack epidemic and overall economic recession.
Legally it is Bed-Stuy, but I concur with the statements expressed earlier that it does not have the Bed-Stuy vibe. Bed-Stuy is a large neighborhood and more centrally located in the boro. Clinton Hill is known for its homes, Pratt and its proximity to Manhattan. Anyone who moves onto Classon Avenue between Fulton and Lafayette will attain all those things.
Re: crime. I am young and female and every time I visit my parents (I now live in DC) I walk my dog in and around this general vicinity at night. I jog in this neighborhood too (during day and night). Admittedly I walk and/or jog towards Manhattan or Prospect Park, but I've never felt endangered.
Is crime a problem? Sure, but it's a crime everywhere. Why? Because people who want to steal things will go where the people with money, jewelry, etc.. are and rob them there. Living in Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope isn't going to change that.
Re: a housing price adjustment. I've been keeping tabs on NY real estate for the past five years and so and truly don't believe that this area of Bed-Stuy on the cusp of CH will see a major adjustment. People pay for space, convenience and amenities. Space is a rowhouse for the same price as an apt. in Manhattan. Convenience is its ideal location and easy access to the airports and four other boros. Historically, there were no amenities but with the gentrification of Brooklyn, the amenities have begun to surface. Will it ever be a Lower East Side or Brooklyn Heights or Park Slope? No, but for those of us who live there (or have lived there), we're happy with that just fine.
Final thoughts.. all this talk about terrible schools and poor residents, etc. I truly believe that some people on this board don't live in reality or are afraid to step outside of the little box in which they were raised.
An intelligent person who has the desire to achieve and supportive family and teacher network can do anything. I attended a "terrible" Bed-Stuy public school (Boys and Girls) from 10th- 12th grade and was admitted into a number of the top colleges in the country. I went on to attend a top law school. Bed-Stuy does not equate to failure and Park Slope does not equate to success. The folks on my block growing up were working class families. Good, honest, hard working folks not i-bankers or trust fund millionaires. And that's ok. Everyone does not have to have a college or graduate school degree to be successful. Y'all need to stop looking at a person's annual income and look to see how well they're taking care of their home and family, whether they care about the neighborhood and whether they know to live within their means. Those are signs of a good neighbor and qualities you want to ensure the stability and economic prosperity of your neighborhood.
Ok, I am off my soapbox, but some of these posters are just plain ridiculous.
Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 6:31 PM
well said. nice close.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 1:19 PM
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