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November 13, 2007
House of the Day: 6 Third Street
Even if this house at 6 Third Street in Carroll Gardens is in as bad shape as we suspect it is, it's still looking pretty darn cheap to us at the asking price of $975,000. It's currently configured as a two-family, double-duplex house. The listing says it has tin ceilings, marble mantels and pocket doors, so it sounds to us like someone could buy this place for asking, sink another $500,000 into it and end up with a great, finished house for under $1.5 million. It almost sounds too good to be true. Is there a catch we're missing?
6 Third Street [Manzione RE] GMAP P*Shark
Photo by Kate Leonova for Property Shark
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Comments
I'm guessing a dead body somewhere?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:31 PM
This house is worth $4.372 million.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:32 PM
This house is worth $2,371,526.81.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:33 PM
I think you mean 4.377 million. If not, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about!
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:34 PM
No, I did the math. It's worth $4,372,811.09. Seriously.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:35 PM
I would bet real money that there are 1 or more rent-stabilized tenants (over 62) in place. In every instance I've inquired about properties priced "just right", I've learned the house was delivered with rent-regulated guests.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:35 PM
The catch is that after sinking 500k into it (and a good deal of time, and interest on the 1.5m) you have a house that stands a 50:50 chance of actually, in summer 2008, being worth less than your sunk cost.
I remember bidding on a better located place (union down from smith) for 1.6m a couple of years ago. Is it SO outlandish and unlikely that we might retrace values back to those times? It would only require a fairly minor recession in consumer spending.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:45 PM
Yes, rent controlled tenants are the only explanation.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:46 PM
How do they get 3040SF in a 19x35 building?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:46 PM
Thank goodness, a hellhole with rent control tenants to take our minds off that horror on Monroe Place!!
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:47 PM
I imagine the rumble from the nearby F trains entering and exiting the tunnel must be very soothing.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:48 PM
It is either bargain of the year or there is a rentcontroled tenant.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:48 PM
1:35, You are probably right about the rent stabilized tenant but I thought that in a 2 family, you could evict the tenant if you neededed to occupy the space for your personal use. In that case, it might still be worth the purchase even if you had to give someone moving money and make necessary upgrades.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:48 PM
"The catch is that after sinking 500k into it (and a good deal of time, and interest on the 1.5m) you have a house that stands a 50:50 chance of actually, in summer 2008, being worth less than your sunk cost."
Some people's brain's have the capacity to think about farther down the line than 9 months from now.
I would say there is a 100 percent chance that in 10 years this home will be worth 3 million dollars.
There are a few people out there that buy homes to live in for more than a year.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:49 PM
Perhaps, but anyone who is thinking that they might be there for the long term, 10 years or more, has a pretty good chance of making some money and living in a great neighborhood.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:49 PM
1:48--yes, you can evict if converting to a 1-family abode, UNLESS the tenant is over 62 years old. At that point, you're screwed.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:51 PM
Just think of all the good will you will generate in the neighborhood when you evict somebody's granny. A good increase in equity just might cover the cost of new kneecaps.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:53 PM
I spoke to the realtor about this. It needs a total gut reno from top to bottom - wiring, plumbing, pointing. Remember that 4th street is half industrial so it is not the best location. If it costs $300 - 400k and 8 months + $75k in debt servicing, not sure if it is worth it.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:56 PM
Right, but if there's a rent CONTROL tenant, they've been there for a long time. Wait it out and you're golden. Since it's 2-fam, it doesn't enter into rent-stabilization afterwards. The only drag is if someone is co-tenanting with the elderly occupant. In that case, make a deal with the seller for cash after the sale to pay off the co-tenant.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 1:58 PM
You ever here the deafening rumble of subways going over the Manhattan Bridge while enjoying the multi-million dollar views of the DUMBO waterfront?
You ever been in a 4 million dollar houses in Brooklyn Heights eating dinner and you notice the water in our glass is shaking from the subway below?
Ever be inside one of those 7 million dollar Brooklyn Heights town houses with the manhattan skyline across the way and the BQE rumble below?
Subways, BQE, traffic, etc are not able to hold the price of a solid building in a great neighborhood down.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:06 PM
Architectural question: was the top floor/dormer a later addition?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:10 PM
hear
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:10 PM
You did, 1:35? Sorry, my bad. I always sucked at math. I go with my "gut."
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:13 PM
No sweat, 2:13. It happens to the best of us. Sometimes 'gut' trumps science, but in this case the numbers don't lie. The house is worth $4,372,811.09.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:26 PM
I hear that those under-62 year old rent regulated tenants are very cooperative when they undertand that a rich family wants to take over the entire house. They usually pack up and leave within days. No lengthy court hearings, no endless eviction proceedings, no relocation money. They just leave willingly wishing you the very best of luck.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:28 PM
To: 2:13, 2:26, etc.
... are you enjoying having a posting conversation with yourself?
busy today?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:34 PM
The Mansard roof and dormers are probably original, the house to the left had its Mansard removed and replaced with a plain brick wall that does not quite match the original brick.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:39 PM
I do not think this is too good to be true. It represents the reality of today's market - places that are not on prime blocks and that need lots of work will rot on the market unless priced aggressively, in this case just under that magic 1 million number. This broker will be rewarded with a quick sale, no doubt.
Posted by: stuntmanmike at November 13, 2007 2:45 PM
I live a couple of blocks from here. You can't hear the train and i think it's actually a great block - value will surge also if/when the supposed bond street development happens that's being chronicled on here, and when whole foods happens. Often what seems like tons of work really isn't so bad. For instance - wiring and plumbing really isn't that big of a deal. After all, these brownstones are so simple architecturally - plus pretty narrow. Neither is re-pointing.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:52 PM
"You ever here the deafening rumble of subways going over the Manhattan Bridge while enjoying the multi-million dollar views of the DUMBO waterfront?"
Yup, it's one of the tragic flaws of the neighborhood. Fine if others want to pay big money for it, it's just not for me.
On that note, however, this house doesn't really have the "multi-million dollar views" angle going for it, does it?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 2:54 PM
That's all I need to evict a mafia widow or an old capo from their Carroll Gardens house.
Oy! Numerous Soprano episodes come to mind.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:00 PM
"Some people's brain's have the capacity to think about farther down the line than 9 months from now. "
Yeah but if there is a decent chance of spending 1.5m sometime in the next 12 months and getting a better example, it is better to wait.
No matter how long you plan to be in the house.
Especially if you're the majority who don't feel comfortable with the stress of a gut renovation.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:09 PM
"Yeah but if there is a decent chance of spending 1.5m sometime in the next 12 months and getting a better example, it is better to wait."
So you have a crystal ball?
No one knows this. Think of all the people who said in 2001 that prices could absolutely go no higher.
You don't time the market. You buy when something you love at a price you can afford presents itself.
This will be such a property for at least one person.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:20 PM
Well for starters, it's listed with Manzione - a clown shop. The woman I spoke to over there had nothing but negative things to say about the place. She referred to it as a "dump." Good luck selling a place that you don't even believe in. This is why Corcoran gets all the listings.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:49 PM
I thought yesterday it was all about how much everyone hated Corcoran.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:51 PM
The clown is you 3:49 because you don't have the listing and she does. And she has the integrity to be honest about what she is selling unlike the Minsky-like slime at Corcoran.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:58 PM
wow, when the realtor calls a listing a dump, that is usually not a good sign.
Maybe there are radioactive rent control tenants?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 4:05 PM
Used to be a time when there was an occasional constructive comment on this blog. It would be helpful if some posters actually did soemthing like go so the house and post afterwards when they had somehting to add. This blah blah of the house will be either worthless or worth $2 million in a few years is pointless.
Posted by: Boerum Hill at November 13, 2007 4:09 PM
Even if the place is a dump, a vacant lot would probably sell for this amount in the area. If this building does not have rent control tenants, it is underpriced and if I was looking, I would go today with my check book. I live and own nearby and I can't imagine that they priced the house at this level because it needs work.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 4:27 PM
thats the sound of your property value dropping
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 4:41 PM
i thought that was the sound of your landlord asking you for rent.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 4:48 PM
Does anyone know how much new plumbing for a building of this size would be? roughly?
Thanks
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 4:58 PM
i own this city
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 5:01 PM
$100,000 plumbing
$100,000 electric
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 5:15 PM
thanks, are those numbers based on personal experience? how long did it take to do each?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 5:17 PM
if you spent that much on plumbing and electric you got RIPPED off.
unless you got the gold plated wires.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 5:29 PM
"How do they get 3040SF in a 19x35 building?"
Probably from a one or two-story extension off the back of the building.
19x35 = 665 square feet
x 4 floors (from photo) = 2,660 square feet
That's less than 400 square feet off the 3,40 published. This could easily be accommodated in a rear extension.
Posted by: Xris at November 13, 2007 5:49 PM
accommodated in a rear extension -- that's hot
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 5:53 PM
I think the small brokers like Manzione underprice things. We found our house nearby with a small broker and I think Corcoran would have charged more.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 6:02 PM
The average life expectancy of a rent control tenant is approximately 106 years, according to a recent study in Annals of Internal Medicine.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 6:56 PM
If they get multiple bids, the place will go for way over asking. Don't assume that it is underpriced.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 7:18 PM
6:02, not true. I've found that local brokers overprice as much as Corcoran. It's all relative. Many brokers also price low to spark bidding wars. Plus, we don't know yet what the real deal is with this house.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 7:21 PM
2:34, don't you have anything better to do?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 7:49 PM
anyone found out is there a rent control tenant or not?
Posted by: armchairwarrior at November 13, 2007 8:14 PM
Enough with the Italian sneers, the residents are Irish and have some of the outward signs of certain negative Irish stereotypes.
Its a mess, and the price is not remotely low enough to pay off the obvious structural damage that the building has experienced through years of leaks from the roof. Water does still flow downhill.
Don't worry about the noise of the F train, the rats in the subway though, now that is worth some brainwaves.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 8:24 PM
To 3:58 we know who you are. Obnoxious jealous completely stupid. There has to be work for you there just has to be. Give it up.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 8:54 PM
Place is a score a real bargain . For this area in brooklyn you are getting a steal even if the home needs 500k of work. If you are looking i would scoop this up now
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 9:00 PM
that was convincing
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 9:34 PM
incredibly great article...the what...are you reading this????
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/14/business/14leonhardt.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 9:54 PM
say what? I'm tryin' to sleep here.
someday this snore is gonna end...
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 10:46 PM
To 8:54, you know who I am? Oh no, what am I going to do? I will just have to start over. I'll be good. No more lying and cheating. Swear, from now on I'll be a good agent. And I'll move out of Minskywood to someplace where nobody knows me, like you do. You know me so well. Jeeze you know me well. How do you do it? Know me like you do. But what kind of work will I do?
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 10:50 PM
According to the realtor the property will be delivered vacant. Unless it's fit to be condemned, it sounds a very good price.
Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 9:24 AM
I live on 3rd street, and I've seen an old lady who is well over 60 living at the home. It also looks like her daughter and granddaughter live with Gramdma = house not so goldmine after all
Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 1:43 PM
I spoke to the broker too, and they confirmed that it will be delivered vacant. However, they are currently not showing the house, since they said there were some "personal problems" but they could not divulge anything more. You have to get on a list to be called when they are ready to show the house. It does seem, by the way, that subway noise would be a factor in this location.
Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 2:45 PM
"Enough with the Italian sneers, the residents are Irish and have some of the outward signs of certain negative Irish stereotypes."
Elucidate please!
Signed
Paddy with a chip on my shoulder
Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 11:48 PM
While, looked at this listing on Manzione's site, noticed another listing for a RedHook property listed at a ludicris 850K
Pictures indicatedthe Red Hook Property would benefit from an almost total gut (the Dining Room especially is hideous).
Judging from this listing, this Carroll Gardens house seems a bargin, if you consider both properties would benefit from a minimum rennovation budget of 200K
Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 11:16 AM
Just got a message from Mary at Manzione that this house is about to go into contract. Never even had a chance to see it.
Posted by: guest at November 16, 2007 5:11 PM
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