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November 7, 2007
House of the Day: 23 1st Place
This house at 23 1st Place is being pitched as a chance to create an owner's duplex with with two rentals but we suspect that, given the amount of unused FAR, a developer is a more likely acquiror. The asking price of $2,400,000 seems expensive on a per square foot basis for the 3,000-square-foot existing house, especially since this will most likely require a decent amount of work. (By comparison, a slightly larger house at 128 2nd Place sold last spring for just $1,800,000.) Is this high price a function of the current development-friendly way FAR is calculated in this nabe? Think it's realistic?
23 1st Place [Halstead] GMAP P*Shark
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Comments
I think you may not be correct that the one on 2nd Place is larger or that this house has much potential for more FAR.
Sometimes the 'stats' you read on propshark include garden level sq footage and sometimes they don't.
2nd place seems to include but that was a 16 1/2 footer (and 50 deep according to propshark) and this new one is 20 footer (and 54' deep per propshark).
But we never quite know for sure if depth is for all levels or not.
So when you do your per sq ft calcs - better be sure you are using total occupied area.
Posted by: Petebklyn at November 7, 2007 2:09 PM
I think Halstead most have gave you a nice gift for putting this garbage up for discussion using a persuasive angle as to talk about "FAR". Ask me if I give a flying lizards ass about FAR. Put some real deals up there. How about you start a new trend as "House for sale by Owner". Oops! let me guess, you won't get paid then Mr. Stoner/Broker.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 2:13 PM
I agree that FAR is sort of an annoying tactic that brokers use which I imagine appeals primarily to developers. With real estate so expensive these days, who can afford to do the kind of major work that exploiting that FAR requires? I figure those who can afford it would probably prefer to just buy a bigger house to begin with.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 2:42 PM
where can i find the FAR for my bldg?
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 2:53 PM
yawn
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:50 PM
SLIM SLIM pickins.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 3:52 PM
Realistic when you're making 800K/year
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 4:12 PM
Why do posters believe that Mr. Brownstoner has a responsibility to "bargain hunt" for house of the day. He's not a personal shopper, just a reporter on what's out there in the market. He doesn't set prices.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 4:58 PM
if you toss in another $300K for renovation costs, then you are at $900 per sq. foot.
not the worst, probably too high for a lot of people.
you can buy a pretty killer ready to go condo somewhere - including manhattan for that coin. you won't get 3000 sq feet, but could get well over 2000 sq feet in manhattan for $2.7 million.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 5:04 PM
yeah, in inwood maybe.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 5:40 PM
i have never seen so many nasty commments. you all must be jealous brokers without listings tsk tsk tsk
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 7:12 PM
I think you guys are losers you are talking about prime brooklyn in 1st place it does not matter what the price or FAR is. All that matters is the house is nice and the block is prime and guess what else the area is top notch prime Carroll Gardens. If you don't think so then you better look in Bed stuy or maybe Bensonhurst.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 7:27 PM
800 per square foot is high for the neighborhood but as a supply and demand thing there are not many of these out there on the market. And, of course the FAR is rolled into the price, it is part of the property rights for sale why wouldn't it be? That said, if anyone thinks that developers are going to pay $800 per square just to knock it down and build something else, fuhgedaboudit, won't happen. If at some point the owner would choose to build out to their FAR maybe they will, it is something buyers and sellers factor in. Or at least those who know what they are doing factor in.
Those who are on a FAR jihad, stopping all building in its tracks, they don't mind giving up their property rights anyway. They have plenty of money. Maybe they don't count it when they buy and sell.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 7:52 PM
for 5:40 only--everyone else, refrain from jumping on me:
http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=299118
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 8:05 PM
7:52 if you think $800 square foot is too much for Carroll Gardens then you are not very smart with real estate being one of the premire areas in NYc, what do you think would command this price? hello wake up and smell the coffee
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 8:26 PM
I think you are missing the point here 8:26 the issue here is that you are getting a house with a yard and a family area that is top notch. some people want a loft ok but others want a family home.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 8:29 PM
My favorite line on the listing is "A mechanically sound home waits for you!"
Translation: Gut reno.
Meh!
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 8:54 PM
I don't know if this house is at all worth the price, but that Soho listing is pretty depressing -- there's only one window in the whole apartment!!! And that's what you get for 2 million. Whoa.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:04 PM
I took a look at the floorplan and saw the lack of windows in the "bedrooms" of the Soho loft. Ick! And it's in Soho, double ick!
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:38 PM
More comments from brokers/current owners defending an overly high price. This house looks pretty crappy.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:39 PM
I can't really speak to how crappy the house is, but a few months ago a house in Carroll Gardens on Degraw between Smith and Hoyt I think sold for more than $2 million. (Remember, it was all painted blue inside?). I was one of the posters who thought the price was outlandish, and I couldn't believe it sold for anything near the asking price.
Unlike that house, which was not in a great location, this house is in about as prime Carroll Gardens as you can get, and it's larger. This is a house for a family -- perhaps one like the people selling that silly loft on one of the busiest streets in Manhattan, with 2 windowless bedrooms, for the same price. I don't know whether the fact that they need to do a renovation to this place turns those buyers off, but a house in this location already decently renovated would probably get close to this price, if not more. I still think the entire market is overpriced, but this house is nicer than many I've seen out there for around the same price. And if you want to live in a Carroll Gardens brownstone, there isn't alot out there.
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 9:58 PM
Where is Carroll Gardens?
Posted by: guest at November 7, 2007 11:59 PM
11:59 - Pull your head out of your ass first, and then I'll point you in the right direction.
Posted by: guest at November 8, 2007 1:34 AM
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