Development Watch: Acadia Starts Albee Demo

Yes.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:08 PM

Demand is always there. Question is at what price.
125K sq ft isn't much anyway.
As the area gets more highrise residential and looks improve - I would hope the demand for office space will improve with it.
I would guess Class A office space renters want some prestige in a location...all the new residential in area will increase that prestige.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:11 PM

I will make a bet that the office space will end up being some sort of govermnment offices. If some readers recall, MetroTech was supposed to be filled with Tech (bio and regular) companies. Ratner's MetroTech got sizeable tax breaks to build. and when the companies didn't come, what happened: The Rat got the government to bail him out. In other words, its filled with government offices, courts and agenices.

From a residential POV, there are MUCH nicer areas in Kings County. Why live off of Flatbush when you don't have to.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:33 PM

12:33 - Plenty of Blue Chip tenants at Metrotech

Morgan Stanley
Chase
SIAC
Bear Sterns
Key Span
Goldman Sachs

but dont let the facts interfere with your arguments

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:45 PM

Eh, Hello? I think you should read this. There are layoffs coming in 2008. I don't see the demand for office space. Please tell me where the demand is coming from? Real Estate, nope. Tech, nope. Wall street coming to Brooklyn? Why, there have been building like crazy in Manhattan. I know 'm a nut job but, we are is for some pain in the new year. I don't see the demand. Look at this story, they are shipping Wall Street type jobs to India! Right under your nose.

JPMorgan, Deutsche Bank Keep Mum on Indian Intellectual Capital

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601091&sid=aBrxeTBQQrWs&refer=india

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:45 PM

Don't like Atlantic Yards and/or Bruce Ratner and/or MetroTech? You're entitled to your opinion. However, I just looked at the "Description and Location of the Proposed Action" from the FEIS for MetroTech and 12:33 is engaging in revisionist history. The project as built is pretty much as proposed.

I could belabor the point, site-by-site, but the statement above is just not true. Besides FDNY, the new HQ for which was included from the beginning, name the other major government tenants at MetroTech? The 9-1-1 call center? Sounds like "tech" to me. Anyone else?

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:46 PM

By the time this space is complete, there may be little or no Class A available, as there are several deals in the works for the vacant space now on the market.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:54 PM

any word on the retail tenants?

please no more ghetto discount chains that are polluting brooklyn retail

there are plenty of us here who are willing to spend a little more for quality goods & services

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 12:54 PM

12:45 here, in the interest of fairness:

HRA
Dept of Motor Vehicles
NY State Supreme Ct and Family Ct
IRS
and Empire Blue Cross and Blue Shield (which was quasi Govt when the lease was signed)

But you are 100% correct, there was no bailout at Metrotech - both the private and Govt leases was contemplated PRIOR to a shovel hitting dirt.
By every measure Metrotech is a total success and assertions to the contrary are simply revisionist history; applying todays realities (which Metrotech helped create) to a project conceived in a much different past, decades ago.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:01 PM

In response to 12:33's comment regarding there being "MUCH nicer" areas to live in Kings County, its really a matter of personal taste. I have lived in University Towers in downtown Brooklyn for the past 5 years and I just bought an apartment at ORO (also in Downtown). Before that, I used to live in Park Slope. One could certainly argue that the Slope, Prospect Heights, Clinton Hill, etc. are "nicer" places to live than downtown Brooklyn. However, from my perspective, I have always enjoyed Downtown Brooklyn's proximity to Manhattan. I don't enjoy spending excessive portions of my day commuting. I work in midtown and on the Q train I have a 25 minute commute door to door...when I worked down on Wall street I had a 7 minute commute door to door on the R train. A cab ride home from midtown is $15. From Park Slope, my commute to Wall Street was 30+ minutes and was about 1 hour to midtown. My cab fare from midtown to the Slope was $22 or more. Personally, I think that once the enhanced retail services resulting from the forthcoming condo buildings, rental buildings and hotels come on line (when combined by the unparalled convenience) there will not be a "MUCH nicer" area in Kings County to live than Downtown Brooklyn.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:01 PM

I think 12:45/1:01 bends over backwards "in the interest of fairness." Most of the tenants that s/he lists in the second post are in the MetroTech Business Improvement District but are NOT part of the MetroTech development project, which is entirely bounded by Jay, Tillary, Flatbush, Gold and Willoughby (less CUNY and Westinghouse).

Like the FDNY headquarters, 320/330 Jay Street was constructed FOR the Supreme and Family Court, as the anchor tenants. I stand by my original accusation of "revisionist history." -- 12:46

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:13 PM

"what makes you think that the current credit situation and housing situation are going to severly derail things? all industries are cyclical, including financial services - some trimming/reorg following multiple years of record earnings is normal. if this progresses for several years to the point where we are erasing years of growh then there is need to set off alarms."

This is our first global bubble. This explosion of credit cannot and will not sustain itself. Very soon this debt MUST be paid back. America as been on a credit binge for the last 10 years! And when not if it implodes, we will be in plenty of trouble.

When people respond to my post they not cannot come with any thing different. It's always "Brooklyn is different" or "The Demand Bah Bah" but, no fundamentals of a real economy. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, It's too sweet for me.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end........

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:16 PM

hey "What",

record bonuses on Wall Street

care to comment?

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:17 PM

i heard bed bath and beyond is coming ..

thats a good start

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:24 PM

I think the demand is there. As a previous poster said 125k isn't that much. I also think as more towers are built the demand will grow.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:38 PM

12:46 - the tenants I listed are all in Ratner built and owned buildings therefore I think those Govt offices are fairly listed - so what -

1st of all you have to counter the anti-Ratner folks with full disclosure - it makes their lies and exaggerations so much more apparent and besides why wouldn't a development of this size contain Govt offices?

The point is that Metrotech wasnt bailed out at all, it met its goal fully and has set the stage for the current development.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 1:46 PM

metrotech was a start...and although it has taken time, it was obvioulsy the start of something positive

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 2:00 PM

"hey "What",

record bonuses on Wall Street

care to comment?"

Well yes bonuses then layoffs. We are in the end-phase of this cycle. I know that some of you smart-asses want to point to record growth is the last 10 years. But, Wall Street have some real problems now. In the past month HSBC, WAMU, JP Morgan, GS, and Citigroup had to write down hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars. This is not tin-foil hat shit, it's real. Just yesterday Citi says it will layoff about 45,000 people. Credit margins are getting hammed right now and Mortgages are getting harder to fund. Keep sleep walking, you will walk in front of a bus.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 2:11 PM

The What

I agree with you on the facts of what you state (i.e. this is the end of a very big bubble)

I think what I and many here disagree with is that this is the beginning of some sort of new depression that will destroy every gain made in NYC and Brooklyn.

The fact that the 'boom' maybe over doesnt mean that in 2 years things arent moving forward once again.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 2:23 PM

Brenda, doesn't St. Boniface have development plans of its own?

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 2:39 PM

Getting rid of that garage is addition by subtraction.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 3:02 PM

BrooklynLove: Any desire to be a columnist on www.thenydirt.com ? We could use some BK-centric opinions...let us know if you are interested at info@thenydirt.com

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 3:27 PM

This is where another Target will be as well.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 3:57 PM

I love the fact The What is feeding on this site. Its actualyl far more interesting because of it.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 4:08 PM

BrooklynLove- Right On!!
this might be the best thing that has happened to NYC in the past 7 yrs. Brooklyn is the guts and jewels of the 5 boroughs. It’s raw gritty and real. Some development is much needed in this severely underestimated gem of terrain. And to be honest Im starting to enjoy the downtown BKLYN skyline much more than that of Manahttan.

M.H

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 4:09 PM

the only way dtbk will survive is if the projects are destoyed

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 4:15 PM

What do the readers here think of the impact this soon-to-be canyon will have on the values of the so-called "brownstone" neighborhoods? I would assume it may increase the values in FG, BH, CH, BH...no?

If these residential towers bring in massive numbers of residents and workers, what do people think of future quality of life in terms of the subways. Will the quieter neighborhoods and streets be flooded with people trapsing back and forth to restaurants and the like?

Kind of wondering...for example...FG Park is only "so" big and can seem quite crowded on a weekend these days. Since it's essentially the closest park to these new and proposed towers, are there any provisions for any additional outdoor space in the immediate vicinity to be created?

Are these new towers all being built to the sidewalk line? No matter what, they couldn't offer any decent outdoor space unless there is some real urban planning.

Thinking of Battery Park City: there is high density but lots of usable green space that "works". Will there be any corridor of green space in the Flatbush area or will people be flocking to the FG farmers market and FG park on the weekends?

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 5:44 PM

"What - specifically what debts are you taking about that are going to cause this catastrophic global collapse?"

Here ya go homeboy!!

Bank CDO Losses May Reach $77 Billion, JP Morgan says
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKx.Gintu5so&refer=home

Wells sets aside $1.4 billion to cover loan losses
Bank tightens standards further; plans to liquidate $11.9 billion portfolio
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/wells-fargo-sets-aside-14/story.aspx?guid=%7BCA375F24%2D3ABA%2D4DF1%2DA2A0%2D62392E37856C%7D&dist=morenews_ts

Freddie Mac Loses $2B, Seeks New Capital
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071120/earns_freddie_mac.html?.v=17

I could go on all day but, please read the last story!

Banks Gone Wild
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/23/opinion/23krugman.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=login

See there is a Global Credit Crunch going on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are fucked!!!! The mutant real estate bubble is OVER!!! Get it!

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:00 PM

So, Monsieur Le What, I guess you're saying these buildings won't all go up on Flatbush?

I hope not. They're not terrible sustainable in the long run.

Thanks for making a recent effort with your writing style!

Cheers,
FG/TheGrammarLady

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:14 PM

If any decision makers are reading this, I want you to be aware that there a lot of people that vote that are for projects like this. The silent majority will have our day during election time. This is an excellent example of growth done right.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:27 PM

We're not all NIMBYs in Brooklyn. I like this building(s) and the one from yesterday (City Tech) even though that one I guess is an old rendering over a year old.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:28 PM

Kids,
Keep in mind that the artist renderings you are all in awe of or VERY misleading.
FG/TGL

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:36 PM

5:44;

Willoughby Sq. Park is one of the planned areas offering additional greenspace

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:47 PM

Isn't Willoughby Sq. going to be just a plaza-ish space? FG Park will be the only real big outdoor space and it really isn't *that* big.

Oh, well...if this all gets built and lived in, the subways will be super-mobbed.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 6:55 PM

Brooklyn Bridge Park
Cadman Plaza Park
Prospect Park
Ft Greene Park

seems like there is plenty of nearby parks -

another non-issue by the NIMBYS

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 8:59 PM

_________________
At 8:59 PM, "8:59 PM" said:

Brooklyn Bridge Park
Cadman Plaza Park
Prospect Park
Ft Greene Park

seems like there IS plenty of nearby parks -

another non-issue by the NIMBYS

________________

"8:59 PM"...

A non-NIMBY here, but frankly, Prospect Park is NOT easy walking distance from this part of Flatbush/Myrtle/Fulton. Like FG/TGL, I live in Fort Greene not far from Flatbush. Trekking over to Prospect Park is not on my radar and probably not for the majority in our neck of the woods.

Cadman Plaza is sucky. If you want to have a rally or flea market it might be okay...

Seems like FG Park and, true, BB Park will be the most attractive to new residents depending on which end of the corridor they live on. I would imagine people at Oral, Farte, and the buildings on DeKalb and Myrtle will head to FG Park.

Anyone else care to weigh in...? or care?...

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 9:22 PM

"What - please not you too with the CDO and loan write down histeria. first of all, much of these amounts are estimates and overly conservative ones assuming worse case scenarios for hard to value currently illiquid assets. to the extent banks actually take all the predicted write downs, a portion will likely be revised in a kinder fashion later in time once actual losses are realized, although admittedly any upward revisions probably won't be too large."

I hope you read my reply. If banks are forced to Market to Market the toxic waste and put them back on their books, Banks will become INSOLVENT overnight. The amount of debt is out of this world.

In the last 5 years, 6 Trillion dollars have been used for Real Estate purposes (Home Buying, Refi and Constructions loans). Plus Real Estate has been about 35% of the GNP.

If People cannot get credit, the whole Ponzi scheme collapses! When, not if credit contracts we will have a nightmare on our hands.

The What

Someday this war is gonna end...

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 10:55 PM

Wow Prospect Park is a whole 30 min walk, 7min bus ride or 5 min subway and thats not close enough for you? That plus Ft Greene Park, Brooklyn Bridge Park, Willoughby Sq, Cadman Plaza Park, and the lawn at Metrotech..how much park land would be enough??? This is the core of a CITY for god sakes. Please come up with some real issues.

Posted by: guest at November 28, 2007 11:08 PM

Hey Brooklyn love Read This.

As Lenders Tighten Flow of Credit, Growth at Risk
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/29/business/29lend.html?_r=2&th&emc=th&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

This just reinforces my point. No credit, No money, GAME OVER

The What

Someday this war is gonna end....

Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 7:33 AM

8:59 & 11:08, a "30 min walk, 7min bus ride or 5 min subway" ride isn't the standard for access to open space that our esteemed mayor has set forth in the PlaNYC 2030 plan. Nice try.

Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 8:28 AM

THANK YOU 8:28!

Thank you for pointing out that a 30-minute walk or 7-minute bus ride (which would frankly be l-o-n-g-e-r trying to get up Flatbush Avenue, hello) is NOT the standard for access to open space.

Access to green space and some decent human-scale urban planning for what is going on right now in the Flatbush "corridor" would be nice.

No...we have to have massive towers and a residential density the transit systems CANNOT handle.

Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 9:32 AM

If the only park was 30 min walk away you might have a point but since there are 2 major parks (BBP and Ft Greene Park) within 10 mins your protests are revealed as the NIMBY sentiment they truly are.

Posted by: guest at November 29, 2007 3:01 PM