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November 12, 2007
Which Foodie Is Coming to Court and State?
Who just signed the retail lease in the new building at the corner of State and Court in Brooklyn Heights? That was the question that had members of the audience scratching their heads at last week's quarterly Brooklyn Real Estate Roundtable held at the Brooklyn Historical Society. The corner location, which includes about 2,500 square feet on the ground floor and another 2,500 in the basement, just rented at a record-high $125 a foot after "long and protracted" negotiations, according to Massey Knakal senior partner Tim King. As to who the tenant is, King would only drop the tantalizing clue that it's a company that's been in the food production biz for the last hundred years. The two that leapt to our mind—Zabar's and Di Palo—only go back to the 1930s, so scratch them. An announcement is expected in the next week or two, but we thought if we all put our heads together, maybe we could figure it out. Ideas?
Downtown Rental Developments: Is Two a Trend? [Brownstoner] GMAP
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Comments
has balducci's been around that long?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:46 AM
pretty close! it started in 1916 in Brooklyn
http://www.balduccis.com/about_us
Posted by: brownstoner at November 12, 2007 10:49 AM
Balducci's claims 90 years.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:49 AM
Sahadi's?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:51 AM
why open another sahadi's blocks away from the original?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:53 AM
given my luck, it's probably an A&P
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:54 AM
citarella only goes back to 1912... dang!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:54 AM
isnt this where Trader Joe’s is going? Or is Tj’s going to the adjacent large retail space down the street atlantic (@ clinton) a block across from sahadis.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:55 AM
Nope. Sahadi's could indeed move to a new locations, but Sahadi's website says "since 1948' on the main page.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:55 AM
well hundred years might be rounding up slightly. who knows.
citarella seems like a good guess...
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:56 AM
I can't imagine that any gourmet store will be able to compete with sahadi's great pricing...accept of course, sahadi's.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:57 AM
btw, that brickwork looks awful.
all of it doesn't even match.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:58 AM
This is great news. This neighborhood is in desperate need for a good supermarket...TJ's will be a welcome addition..but it will always be swamped, so an additional supermarket on the other side of atlantic will be great
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 10:59 AM
This is "Danny's Re-Grand Opening" condo. What ocudl be 100 years -- it's not that big a space --pickels? bagels? candy? Couldn;t be too general with Trader Joe across the street. Maybe Chineese?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:02 AM
WEGMANS????
http://www.wegmans.com/about/history/index.asp
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:04 AM
Since we're talking about rounding upward, how about Russ & Daughters, Katz's deli, or Nathan's?
Better yet, how about a resurrection of the automat?
I wish Sahadis was moving, as they outgrew their current space about a decade ago.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:06 AM
I dream of a gigantic Russ and Daughters, opened in 1914, but I'm sure I'm wrong!
Posted by: Carol Gardens at November 12, 2007 11:09 AM
Bazzini's? They've been around since 1886.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:14 AM
you mean, barzini's? gosh...they have done amazing things with the upper west side store over the last year.
come on people with the wegman's guesses....this ain't that big a space.
wegman's is like an ikea-sized store practically.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:18 AM
Charlie Sahadi owns the whole Sahadi's building, so I can't imagine he'd move. He's a great landlord, by the way.
Posted by: Nelly at November 12, 2007 11:26 AM
We heard a while back from Mr. Satnick of (jewels by Satnick around the corner) that it was going to be a drug store that was previously located for many years near Borough Hall (can't remember the name)and closed a few years back.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:27 AM
Ah! My neighbors and their sad little delusions. How I love you and the fragile little world you live in.
Think, people, think!
I'll give you a hint: "Gristede's has been feeding New Yorker's for over 100 years. Our stores offer fresh meats, produce, dairy products, baked goods, frozen foods, gourmet foods, and nonfood items. We at Gristede's strive to make every shopping experience a great shopping experience. Our customers have come to expect the best products at the lowest prices in town."
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:29 AM
Perhaps ACME Smoked Fish Co.?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:31 AM
11:29 again.. and the rumor is that Gristedes is trying to get out of their Brooklyn Heights (Henry St) lease. That store is so hopelessly broken, maybe they are just starting fresh. And maybe something better will take over the larger Henry St place. Can't be worse
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:33 AM
One of the guys from Barney's (the discount drug store that was across from Bourough Hall) had a hanshake deal to buy (comerical condo) that space for another Barney's. Danny backed out. It's too small for a Gristede or any other supermarket. "Food production" is not retail. This is only small retail. But coudl be an outlet for 100-year-old bakery?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:38 AM
The quote said "food production business", which would seem to not mean a grocery/supermarket. I'm going with Nathan's, which is in food production. I hope I'm wrong as it would further trash that area of Court Street. Jeb
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:39 AM
Fingers crossed that it's one of those Dunkin' Donuts/Nathan's/Pizza Hut combo joints!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:44 AM
Catsamitidis is NOT going to pay $125 - he doesn't play that way.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:45 AM
i heard it was a gourmet foods type joint -- gristedes would be great for the hood but not likely on this rumor data set.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:52 AM
the rumor is ALWAYS that it's a gourmet-type joint. and it's always wrong.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:54 AM
then bring on GRISTEDES! we need a real supermarket. put key food out of business for good, please.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:55 AM
Ha! gristedes' TAG LINE is "over 100 years of excellence..." thread closed.
http://www.gristedes.com/shop/Default.aspx
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 11:59 AM
hate to break it to you, 11:55 but the key food on 5th avenue and the now newly renovated one on 7th avenue is better than ANY gristides i've ever been in.
and i've been in quite a few.
key food is doing some nice things to improve their stores. i even received an email response from someone in management there within a day in reference to a question i had about the color they were repainting the outside of their 7th avenue store a couple months ago. he was incredibly gracious and helpful, and asked that anyone who has suggestions to improve the store, contact him.
their selection has been VASTLY improved. as has overall cleanliness and appearance of the store.
we even have SELF CHECKOUT now at 7th avenue location!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:06 PM
It's 2,500 SF. The smalled supermarket I've ever heard of is closer to 70' x 100' or something like that. Hmmm... Walk by the space and tell me you think it's going to be a supermarket. I don't think it's Gristides.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:08 PM
12:06, the Atlantic Ave. Key Food is the 8th circle of HELL. It will never improve. It should be demolished.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:09 PM
Could it be Tesco's? They said they're opening in the states.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:12 PM
how could a store NEVER improve?
that's absurd.
the 7th avenue one was pretty bad before the remodel.
not been inside the atlantic ave one, but the 7th ave store smelled like dead bodies and didn't look much better.
it's literally a whole new store now. so bright, fresh, the produce is 100% better, they have organic stuff now, etc.
of course it can improve. look up their website and email them and see if they are planning a remodel.
sometimes it takes a little community action to get the ball rolling on things like this...
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:12 PM
......Chuck E Cheese!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:17 PM
No, It is a mini Wholefoods, Hieky!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:23 PM
I believe all Key Food stores (much like Associated and Met Foods, to name a few) are all independently owned. So the 7th and 5th Ave stores may be better, but this has no bearing on Atlantic Avenue...which is an AWFUL store.
Posted by: tinarina at November 12, 2007 12:33 PM
"a company that's been in the food PRODUCTION biz for the last hundred years"
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:53 PM
The space doesn't look big enough for the big markets, which is too bad, because there hasn't been a decent supermarket in the Heights since D'ag's closed. Gristede's on Henry is simply gross, and both Key Foods in the area don't even try. I'm hoping for a new Blimpie's.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:54 PM
I would kill for a Marks & Spencer. But the fact of the matter is that this is a small space - only 2500 feet at the ground floor and a 2500 square foot basement, which would likely be storage. It will probably be a 7-11 or something like that. (Which, BTW, was founded in 1927.)
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 12:54 PM
Upscale gourmet doesn't sound righ for that location, given that Trader Joe's is moving in a block away. Also, when that New Balance store moved in next door, it just felt really wrong, especially when you see the people lined up at the theater next door not to mention the Eckard's across the street. Gristede's sounds right. But one of those other annoying chains could easily fit the bill too.
Posted by: contempt at November 12, 2007 1:20 PM
I heard a rumor that Welch's Jelly and Juices is opening up an organic outlet. They opened for business in 1869.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 1:42 PM
Tesco is starting out in the West Coast first, so we probably won't see them here on the East Coast for a while. And ditto contempt on the New Balance store - it seems like an odd location for it and I've never seen anyone in there.
Posted by: washingtonandatlantic at November 12, 2007 1:44 PM
horray! that's exactly what that location needs.
can't be gristedes people -- waay too small.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:02 PM
food PRODUCTIon sounds bad.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:08 PM
I'm hoping that they keep it local and have a Sweet & Low cafe.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:09 PM
Di Palo would be a real asset, although I'd be surprised if they opened up shop on Court St. Their store in Little Italy (what's left of it) is nearly impossible to get into around the holidays, but their products are superior and the variety is great. There aren't any fresh Italian food establishments left since the Court/Union St Fratelli Ravioli store closed shop a couple of years ago. If you're of Italian background, you'll know exactly what I mean!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:31 PM
the last thing court street needs is another bakery
LETS THROW THIS ONE OUT THERE:
DEAN AND DELUCA?
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:34 PM
OLIVE GARDEN!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:38 PM
2:31 Come visit Caputo's 460 Court St (between 3rd Pl & 4th Pl) for the stuff you crave!
Posted by: Carol Gardens at November 12, 2007 2:46 PM
If we're talking about chains, you know what *would* be so good here (but isn't old enough to be the right answer)? Le Pain Quotidien! They've multiplied like rabbits in Manhattan over the last few years, and I really think on true merits. Incredible bread, really good food, not cheap but very good value for the prices. Definitely time to branch out into Brooklyn. :)
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:49 PM
http://www.deandeluca.com/Aboutus/default.aspx?id=204 the original DEAN & DELUCA, opened for business in September 1977, they are no were near the 100 year mark.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 2:55 PM
PAIN OH CHOCOLAT! Le Pain Quotidien would be awesome, as would Dean and Deluca. Unfortuantely the Gristedes "over 100 years" business thing rings kind of true. How completely dissapointing!!!!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 3:48 PM
DiPalo's actually opened in 1910, so it would qualify for the 100 years in business.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 3:55 PM
How about Fauchon? They didn't make on the upper east side, but...
Posted by: Boerum Blogger at November 12, 2007 4:21 PM
I know what it is. You guys will never guess. It is a company you are all familiar with though. Good luck everyone!
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 5:33 PM
Sainsbury's, City Super, Happy Lawson
A girl can dream.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 6:43 PM
I'm scared. Could it be a KFC? Or a Mickey D's? They would pay a lot for location.
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 7:43 PM
"There aren't any fresh Italian food establishments left since the Court/Union St Fratelli Ravioli store closed shop a couple of years ago. If you're of Italian background, you'll know exactly what I mean!"
Uh WHAT? i didddo Carol Gardens,.. Esposito's has been there since way beofre McFratelli's as well as Caputos, and now Marco Polo (there forever) will be opening up in the failed Fratelli's for take away of ... wait for it... Italian specialties!, any Italian Americans in that neighborhood have no idea what you're talking about...
Posted by: guest at November 12, 2007 7:57 PM
Ottomanelli's is a gourmet meat producer, founded in 1900. That's my bet.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 5:06 AM
7:57: I know what I'm talking about (being Italian and having been born in Italy), and I think other Italian Americans in the area know what I'm talking about. Fratelli Ravioli sold different products than Esposito does, and I do shop at Esposito, as well. (Actually Esposito can use a good, thorough cleaning, if you ask me). I'm talking about Fratelli's daily freshly made mozzarella, fresh pasta/ravioli/manicotti (not dried or frozen), and other Italian specialty items that I purchased there regularly. The smaller Fratelli farther up Court St doesn't compare. As for Marco Polo's soon-to-be opened new place...I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll offer. A tidbit from the past...Fratelli used to be known as Pastosa Ravioli, and it's previous location used to be on Court across from Carroll Park where the pet supply shop is now located. It goes back that far in the neighborhood(and so do I).
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 9:24 AM
Way too small for any grocery store, gourmet or upscale or downscale. Also split on two levels, with no room for an escalator. Grocery stores know that people don't climb stairs with jugs of milk in the hands.
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 11:42 AM
7:57 here, I apologize if I sounded brash, I might not be italian,but I've been in the neighborhood for 37 years, I remember Pastosa (and If I may, I believe it was next to the pet food store, you can see the Polly-O birds sticking out underneath the sign of the grocery store there even today), I did not realize they bought into a chain, but I do personally think if that was the same people, they had gone downhill (which might explain why they bought into a chain, and then closed). I remember Fratelli's marinated artichoke hearts were always hard,the riceballs were laughable compared to Esopsito's, and most the other stuff looked like it was delivered there from somewhere else (if it wasnt, the packaging made it look that way) and I dont remember the Mozzerella being close to Caputo's ever. I am not trying to start an argument, you are more Italian than i'll ever be, i'm sure we shop at all the same places, I guess I just know what I like. Any other Italian Americans from the hood out there care to chime in?..
p.s. Sals Pizza owners were born in Italy, are Italian, and their food has been spiraling downhill since the 70's,again, at least I think so.
Anyway, I am glad there are other people from the neighbrohood and proud of it going up on these boards, and its not just representative of newer residents..Cheers to you
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 3:16 PM
3:16: No, you didn't sound brash, and I know you're not starting an argument. What I was trying to say is that it's become increasingly difficult to find freshly made Italian foods in the area. BTW, there were some things I'd never purchase at Fratelli, not because they looked undesirable, but because I would make them myself most of the time. I think they might have gone downhill as you say when Ray, the owner, told us that he was thinking of closing the store, he really didn't need the money, and was getting bored with it. That could be the beginning of the decline as he was already mentally out of there. The fresh "latticini" (fresh milk products) are what's now missing from the neighborhood...mozzarella, fresh cheese (not the dry or aged cheeses), fresh pasta, that sort of thing. There was a time when you could walk a mere few blocks and have all those yummy items at your fingertips up and down Court St, but no more, and I miss them terribly. That's why I'm keeping my fingers crossed that perhaps DiPalo would open up a place on Court St but realizing it probably won't happen. [Also BTW, I'm 54 yrs old and have lived in CG practically my entire life (born overseas), educated in Brooklyn & Manhattan, wouldn't want to live anywhere else, and I've seen many changes and many establishments come and go.] OK, I'll give you Pastosa next to the pet store as evidenced by the photo I keep on my desk at home of my sister and me in our Easter Sunday best in 1963!! See ya around shopping!
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 4:09 PM
I know this isn't CHOWHOUND, but what do you think of the mozarella at Caputo's? And there must be fresh pasta around here somewhere!
Posted by: Carol Gardens at November 13, 2007 5:15 PM
I love it, they make it in the back, and dont wrap it, they put it in water in a contaainer, the best way to store it fresh... and if you want salt, they dunk it in salt water for 2 seconds, and it seems to soak all the way through... would love to know where to get fresh pasta nearby
Posted by: guest at November 13, 2007 6:59 PM
Gristede's is closing their non-Manhattan locations, not opening new ones...
Posted by: guest at November 14, 2007 7:38 PM
I have it on good authority that this is going to be a Boar's Head store. That's right, like the deli meats. Apparently they want to open a "Carnegie Deli" like location and this is it. There will be full-on food service at the store, which is going to be a gourmet deli.
Posted by: guest at January 13, 2008 9:20 AM
That's old news. It was mentioned on Chowhound and another board weeks ago.
Posted by: guest at January 15, 2008 9:09 AM
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