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November 19, 2007
Condo of the Day: 163 Washington Park
When we first took at look at the four-unit condo conversion at 163 Washington Park in Fort Greene back in July, there were no interior photos to work with. Now we've got a couple to work with. While we're not on board with all the aesthetic decisions (like the exposed brick fireplace), the slate counters with white country cabinets is a nice change from granite and bland wood that you see in most of these conversions. If this ground-and-parlor-floor duplex is really 2,432 square feet, then the asking price of $1,395,000 is in the right ballpark on a per square foot basis. As the case of 302 Washington Avenue (which has been on the market for over a year) shows, though, there are definitely psychological barriers in this part of town to paying over a million bucks for only partial ownership in a brownstone. The other three units in the building are already spoken for, though, so we suspect this one'll go pretty soon.
163 Washington Park [Douglas Elliman] GMAP P*Shark
Condo of the Day: 163 Washington Park [Douglas Elliman]
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Comments
Maybe Im being overly picky here but why would they put white appliances with offwhite cabinets?
Posted by: Mrs. Limestone at November 19, 2007 1:10 PM
I can't believe they're asking so much for such a crappy layout. WHY do people insist on making these living rooms so small? Plus outdoor space is terrible and awkward and off of the bedrooms which means it will rarely be used. Just awful.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:11 PM
$1.4MM to live in a basement is a good deal????
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:14 PM
I can't believe how much this is! Holy Tacos BatMan!
Who are the ad wizards who came up with this one?
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:15 PM
It's a garden apt duplexed in to the basement based on the description of the lower floor being a rec room.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 1:33 PM
1:33, look at the floorplans -- it's a garden/parlor arrangement. (normally you're right, though, that "rec room" = finished cellar)
Posted by: z at November 19, 2007 1:40 PM
1:33 is right this is a garden level and basement (cellar). The lower level has a dug out (sp) made into a small patio. On the garden level you have to walk a bridge over the dug out patio to reach the garden.
On Park Place bet Wash and Underhill, an almost identical layout but at 1700 sf was listed for 795K. Also a brownstone conversion.
Posted by: kdabrowski at November 19, 2007 1:55 PM
Yeah, this layout seems like a big waste. Garden level (does NOT appear to be a basement) could have been made into a very nice bedroom floor. Instead, two bedrooms and the living room and kitchen are crammed upstairs.
And there's not even a full bath downstairs. Bad plan, IMO.
Posted by: tinarina at November 19, 2007 1:58 PM
I saw the place: it's garden level and cellar, and the actual garden is included in sq footage.
Posted by: kdabrowski at November 19, 2007 1:59 PM
1:59 so that means 1,395,000 for 1200 sqf plus a basement and garden. right on the ballpark brownstoner?
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:04 PM
what an outrage. do these people have no shame?
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:27 PM
I've seen it too, and it really is a parlor floor (at street level) plus an english basement - redone with a rec room and no real bathroom as that would not be legal. Terrible layout, imo. The garden can be accessed from the bedroom (via a bridge) and from the lower level (climb up some stairs), the bedrooms, kitchen and dininng area crammed in the upper floor... I didn't like the place and thought it was totally overpriced.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:30 PM
Also the foyer/vestibule on the lower level entrance is not part of the duplex, it's common space (for the meters etc) and storage for the owner (has the apartmente on the top floor) - I was told this by the state agent... so even less square footage.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 2:32 PM
"if this ground-and-parlor-floor duplex is really 2,432 square feet, then the asking price of $1,395,000 is in the right ballpark on a per square foot basis. "
WHY WHY WHY do people look at square feet?????????!!!!!!!!!!!
How much does it cost to live there!!!!!!!!!!
Let me take a crack at that. 20% of 1.4 million is 280,000. We Have a debt service of 1.12 million @ 7% equals 7451.39 a month!!!!! Plus maintenance fees will take you over 8,000 a month!!!! Under 28/35 rule, your income must be 28,571 a month or 342,857 per year!!!!!!!!
is in the right ballpark on a per square foot basis. <-- For Who????
See MoFo's why I go the fuck off!!! Mr. B get a clue. This Mutant Real Estate Bubble is over!!!!
The What LMMFAO
Someday this war is gonna end.....
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 3:34 PM
So ridiculous.
A cellar dugout terrace.
Cramming four families like sardines into a single brownstone. And then asking these prices!
Unbelievable.
Posted by: sam at November 19, 2007 4:22 PM
thats alot of fuckin money to make in a year.
If I made that much I would move somewhere cheap and save alot and then buy half of south carolina.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:27 PM
"in the right ballpark on a per square foot basis" Brownstoner get a fucking clue.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:43 PM
UGH!!!
Posted by: bren at November 19, 2007 4:57 PM
The What: You're quite sexy when you start throwing the maths around like that, but I'm disturbed at how much sense you're making lately....
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 4:59 PM
"The What...I'm disturbed at how much sense you're making lately...."
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
- Arthur Schopenhauer, (1788 - 1860)
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 6:34 PM
"The What...I'm disturbed at how much sense you're making lately...."
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
- Arthur Schopenhauer, (1788 - 1860)"
YES YES YES!!!!!! See come to the light brothers and sisters. Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!
"The What: You're quite sexy when you start throwing the maths around like that, but I'm disturbed at how much sense you're making lately...."
Nope new approach, Let's look at the math!!!!!!! I like to see any asshead refute that!!!
The What
Someday this war is gonna end.....
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 8:58 PM
I'm not questioning The What's math, but there was an interesting story in The Time RE section about a young couple who didn't bat an eyelash at paying $7k to rent a 1br in the Village.
The point to me was that they were unexceptional in every way, just run of the mill banker types who are paying $84,000 a year in rent. I bet their combined income is over $300k. If they wanted to own, this place would be right in their ballpark.
There are tens of thousands of these folks out there in NYC; a lot of them want to buy homes and have the wherewithal to pay what seem to many of us like outrageous prices.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 9:03 PM
Folks, Fortune magazine just ran a large article about the inevitable decline in prices that will even affect, yes, New York. And 9:03, one of the points of the Fortune article is precisely the ratio of rents/mortgages. IMHO, I don't actually think $7K in rent is "unexceptional in every way" - it strikes me as steep, and I think the very people who are moneyed banker types will come to realize that the value in owning now is over-valued, and will wait til prices to own are a better value. It's like P/E ratios in stocks - there are stock market corrections, and there will be a housing market correction. The rise in prices since 2000 has been simply irrational - we lived in FG back then and brownstones were selling for maybe 700-900K, not 2-3 mil like today. A correction will happen.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 9:19 PM
The point that 9:03 is missing is that these are the sorts of people who would rather die than leave Manhattan.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 10:09 PM
I haven't seen this apt. But the lower level usually is the hardest to sell in these type of brownstone conversions that use basement space that can't legally be used for bedrooms or have a full bathroom in it. So when evaluating price per square foot, which I normally encourage you all not to do since the math is really hopeless because who knows what the heck anybody else is measuring, I would not value the lower level at more than 1/2 the price of the upper level. So on that type of basis I don't know that this is cheap or not for this type of square footage or not. But I think it makes more sense to see a place and decide if it is maybe where you want to live before you get that calculator out. And then only bother to get the calculator out to figure out if you can afford it. And I am in sales, but tell all buyers that they absolutely shouldn't buy unless they want to live in a place for at least 5 years. Otherwise it's just a gamble. Happy hunting everybody.
Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 10:23 PM
The WHAT is our hero. Really, more and more this guy is making far more sense than anything I have seen or read here in yonks.
Keep up the excellent work.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 8:20 AM
10:28 = Fucked Buyer
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:49 PM
"The point that 9:03 is missing is that these are the sorts of people who would rather die than leave Manhattan."
Absolutely. And to buy that place that they're renting would probably cost double. So anywhere you find an outrageous rent, it will be dwarfed by a nearby sales comp of an equilvalent property.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:59 PM
These apartments had enormous potential. I’m disappointed to see that a slap-and-shellac job was done to flip these. I don’t think it will work, while I think that a little more craftsmanship could have made these into a real moneymaker. I was excited to see how these turned out, with great expectations. This looks like the same Washington Park monthly rentals just patched up a bit. Maybe the intent is to draw in a buyer with the “I’ll fix that” mindset, which I think sucks. If you have a property and give a damn about the neighborhood, preserve it, restore it, improve it. Good point about the kitchen appliances—a little more effort (and I mean a little—off brands, not even big names—would have drawn in more buyers). I guess there’s a flip and there’s a lazy flip, and hopefully karma rewards us who work harder to pass on something beautiful to another generation.
Posted by: guest at November 30, 2007 2:51 AM
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