Caton Avenue Condo Coming to Market

I don't think anyone in their right mind would pay $500psf to live there. I know I wouldn't.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 12:16 PM

The commenter about truck traffic is dead on. Caton Avenue from McDonald to Flatbush is designated a state truck route. There are no off hours -- tractor trailers line up nose-to-tail 5am or 5pm, no matter, whining and grinding first and second gears through the mistimed lights.

One look around and you also know you're in the -- ahem -- heart of darkness.

500/sq ft there is a joke.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 12:44 PM

Lefferts South is on the same truck route, just farther east. If that place can get $500/s.f. then maybe this place can. This is closer to the subway, and not smack in the middle of an intersection.

Unfortunately this area (Woodruff, Caton, Crooke, between Parkside and Church) still has some serious pockets of sketchiness. There are some nice townhouses and some apartment buildings that were once very nice, so I could see a change happening here.

But the truck route is unfortumate. I always get stuck in traffic there.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:03 PM

this area isn't so bad though for first time buyers but they should be cheaper. I used to live on marlborough between chruch and caton and it was great. the train accessibility is great and the landmarked prospect park south area was a few blocks down. the amenities weren't the BEST but they were fine, there were no connecticut muffins anywhere in sight but there were the usual laundry, grocery, chinese, pizza, kfc, subway etc... the only real problem I had was the parking.

however, I must say I didn't require much of my apartment over there because it was dirt cheap. I felt like the value was unbeatable. that said, if they're charging 500 psf ppl will probably want more or at least I would.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:04 PM

Oh yeah, and parking around there is a NIGHTMARE.

-guest 1:03

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:10 PM

that area does have upside..
it will sell, but slowly

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:10 PM

I live in a coop two buildings away. It's true, the truck traffic is awful, and really a disgrace that it's there at all, amidst such a volume of residential buildings. That said, it's two blocks from prospect park, and the area can only get better. And the subway access is excellent.

The building is ugly... you'd be better off getting something in one of the pretty old buildings from the 20's around there:

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2006/03/ocean_avenue_si.php

If anyone else around there wants to join up with me to get rid of the truck traffic, let me know!

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:18 PM

Going rental in 5... 4... 3...

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:50 PM

tell it, Brenda. Way to call 'em out.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:54 PM

if the windows and walls are built to deal with truck noise, i think its a nice place in a good location...very close to the park, subway nearby...near the nice victorian landmarked area..yeach church ave sucks but its bound to get better..cortelyou is reasonably close and has some great spots...the areas around the parade grounds is improving...the old hospital was bought by a developer and will become a new condo development...good potential

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 1:59 PM

Going rental in 4... 3... 2...

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 2:13 PM

I live around the corner (on Parade Place) from this new building and can't imagine people paying $500/sf. There are a lot of things I like about the neighborhood (proximity to the park, diversity), but there are a lot of things that are still missing that would make it attractive to big spenders (amenities, mostly).

The picture here makes it look a lot nicer than it is in reality. It's just squished in between two buildings that are actually nice (although run-down) and looks nothing like the rest of the neighborhood. The building is just kind of ... bleh.

As a comparable - I don't know the price per square foot of co-ops in my building, but I know the overall sales prices and I'm pretty confident they're well under $500 per. And that's on a much less noise-polluted street, and a lot of the units in our building have views of the park. It's also a beautiful old art deco building. So the idea of somebody paying $500/sf for a kind of blah building without nice views and a lot of noise, in the same neighborhood, is weird to me.

I think if the price is lower than $500 per, though, it could have potential for buyers. Like 1:59 said, there are some things that are changing. I don't think the area is going to wildly gentrify anytime soon, which is just fine with me, but I can see some general sprucing up happening.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 2:23 PM

I live in Lefferts Gardens and this is no Lefferts Gardens. The neighborhood immediately around Flatbush and Church/Caton is a lot worse than LG, and many people on this site seem to believe that you will get shot if you stop at a stoplight in LG.

Therefore, by extrapolation, if you go to look at this building you will be killed instantly.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 3:07 PM

i live nearby.
it's true, this area won't gentrify overnight. this can be a pro AND con.

the r.e. in the area is pretty reasonable considering its so close to the park and on reliable subway lines. very nice for first-timers (as myself)

however, the housing stock in this area is quite dense. some blocks feel/look like eastern-european megablock housing. someone mentioned sketchiness- yes there are def pockets of that around as well. and ditto on Caton Ave being a trucking nightmare!

there are some truly beautiful arch gems scattered throughout, but in general, some people have to rely on courtelyou rd. or hop the train to 7th ave park slope for 'gentrifrying' ammenities.

There is a very strong established commercial sense on flatbush ave in this area (a kin to Fulton Mall), but it seems like spaces are limited for what the hood is desperately lacking -

SOMEONE PLEASE OPEN A COFFEE/WINE/BAR/ or CAFE IN THIS IMMEDIATE AREA ALREADY!!!!
the demand is there (and untapped) - it's a total cash-cow!

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 3:20 PM

3:20

isnt most of the density and other negatives on "the other side" of the tracks from this place...like ocean ave and e21st street...

this bldg seems to be on the quieter, nicer side...far enough away from flatbush

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 3:29 PM

Brenda that was awesome.

"Heart of Darkness" is quite a way to speak about a community filled with black and brown post-colonials.

Was this as bad as it seems?

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 3:36 PM

500 per sq foot to live there seems so high. where is the market down turn. I bought a great condo in prime williamsburg - lots of gentrified amenities + no trucks + no scary/sketchy anything - for less than $500 per sq foot last year. Thought that was the top of the market?

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 3:46 PM

Going rental in 3... 2... 1...

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 5:02 PM

3:07 you need to stop smoking the crack that they are selling over in Lefferts Gardens. This section of Flatbush - Caton Park I think is no worse than LG. I'd rate them about the same. If the condo's at Caton and Bedford are selling, these will sell too. I however agree with the poster that said that thye'd prefer buying in one of the older pre-war buildings. Real Estate has its ups and downs but every neighborhood that we can not afford to live in today survived previous downturns and are now some of the countries best neighborhoods.

Posted by: guest at November 15, 2007 7:02 PM

And hey, the trucks have to go somewhere. You won't let them on the Belt Parkway and someone has to stock the shelves at Fairway, Costco and IKEA. And the "negative" of density. Yeah, thats so negative that density will probably turn into sprawl as soon as you get rid of the trucks.

Posted by: guest at November 16, 2007 12:41 AM

3:07

Caton/Church/Flatbush is only two blocks south of LG, not that far really. And it's not worse than LG, just busier.

Posted by: guest at November 16, 2007 10:08 AM

I have lived in BOTH of these areas recently (2 blocks from Caton Court, and in non-Manor PLG). They are not the same. The area around Caton has a lot of run-down buildings, broken glass on all the side streets, etc. I was always a little freaked out parking my car there at night and walking home alone. I don't generally feel that way in PLG. I don't think these 2 areas are the same in terms of safety/crime.

Posted by: guest at November 16, 2007 2:07 PM

I am one of those buying into Lefferts South.

Why is $500 a sq ft reasonable to us.

• It's a Condo not a Co-op.

•The maintanence and taxes are low.

• Although it is set on a convergence of 3 busy streets- it is silent inside the units, and the building's location faces south with Caton and Linden separating the building from the opposing buildings. It is beyond bright and airy in the units.

• When we compared the costs of buying new for more and buying prewar for less, the price to renovate the prewar combined to the total cost per sq foot of a 2/2 was not much different and that's not including items like energy efficeint windows or a building bulit with a higher R insulation rating than something 50 years old. We all know that overtime to save money you have to put more upfront. Also renovations require cash or equity.

• It is a tiny building- 15 units. That means approx. only 30 people are contributing to the direction and decision making process. More oppurtunity for all voices to be heard in common matters. There is also a dentist moving into the professional commercial space on the ground level. Excellent income for the building which will help keep the maintaince low as time goes on.

• and last but not least: a freaking washer and gas dryer in the apartment and not one of those closet size jammies but full sized
surburban kenmore that will wash 8 pairs of jeans and 15 towels in one load. (Sorry it's the little things that make me happy)

So I just wanted to share our thoughts behind the decision to buy there and shed some light on the mystery.

PS- Nice Brenda!

Posted by: guest at November 17, 2007 11:29 AM

the units in the back of the building must be in total darkness 24/7.

Posted by: guest at November 19, 2007 6:03 PM

There are no units in the back of the unit — there are only three units per floor — each one has windows in the front.

11:29, we bought there too for the same reasons. Looking forward to meeting you!

Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 2:48 PM

2:48- This time next year- a building Holiday party.
Looking forward to meeting you too!

-11:29

Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 7:39 PM

Sounds like a plan, 11:29!

Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 10:01 PM

First, thanks Brenda, well said.

Next/Finally, I saw the actual unit. On Sunday, there was a showing of apt. 2B. I wasn't impressed by the floorplan and the construction and appliances were NOT top-notch. It's very small with a full bath just as you enter the apartment! IF you decide to invest in this structure, BEWARE, as $500/sf is a bit astronomical for this building, given the underdeveloped status of the neighborhood and the poor construction and layout of the units. The truck route and the incessant traffic are significant annoyances, as is parking if you want to park close to the building.

Posted by: guest at January 14, 2008 3:12 PM

In reading all of the comments listed I have to say the negativity is just ridiculous. This is NY we are talking about. I am currently living on LI and am very interested in this building, which I will be going to check out this weekend. I don't really think the location matters to much because you could find the best location with buildings tossed into the smallest space that costs way more then this building. And people will still pay the money for it. I think the thought of someone coming into an community and investing is enough for me to consider moving from the suburbs, where I have lived all my life, to be a part of the redevelopment. I've looked on LI for condos and while the neighborhoods are great the cost is just crazy not to mention the taxes. Plus, I work in Manhattan so my costs for commute will cut more than half and reduce my stress level with LIRR. I am not a subway rider but I will get used to it especially if I could live in a brand new building that is close to the park. With the pollution and truck comments mentioned come on you have to expect that in any city. Take a look at Manhattan!!! Park Avenue alone has tons of trucks driving down the streets daily and a new Condo can easily go for higher then a million in the a good and bad section. At the end of the day people would never be satisfied but that is why the art of negotating is key to any purchase to ensure you're getting a good deal. I think the building looks great and I hope it is perfect to suit my needs if not then so be it.

Posted by: guest at March 28, 2008 1:12 PM

In reading all of the comments listed I have to say the negativity is just ridiculous. This is NY we are talking about. I am currently living on LI and am very interested in this building, which I will be going to check out this weekend. I don't really think the location matters to much because you could find the best location with buildings tossed into the smallest space that costs way more then this building. And people will still pay the money for it. I think the thought of someone coming into an community and investing is enough for me to consider moving from the suburbs, where I have lived all my life, to be a part of the redevelopment. I've looked on LI for condos and while the neighborhoods are great the cost is just crazy not to mention the taxes. Plus, I work in Manhattan so my costs for commute will cut more than half and reduce my stress level with LIRR. I am not a subway rider but I will get used to it especially if I could live in a brand new building that is close to the park. With the pollution and truck comments mentioned come on you have to expect that in any city. Take a look at Manhattan!!! Park Avenue alone has tons of trucks driving down the streets daily and a new Condo can easily go for higher then a million in the a good and bad section. At the end of the day people would never be satisfied but that is why the art of negotiating is key to any purchase to ensure you're getting a good deal. I think the building looks great and I hope it is perfect to suit my needs if not then so be it.

Posted by: guest at March 28, 2008 1:13 PM

The location is a lot more convenient than other new buildings we have looked at and more affordable. It’s across the street from train station and around the corner from Prospect Park. No more walking 8 blocks to the train for me on a freezing or rainy day and it’s only 5 stops to Manhattan on the train. I am definitely sold. Why would I want to pay $700.00 a square foot on the other side of the Park if I can get the same here and the Q and B train have a lot less stops to Manhattan than the F train. Anyways I am looking forward to being there.

Posted by: guest at March 28, 2008 2:20 PM

Seriously- I am not kidding when I say that the truck traffic is a HUGE HUGE problem. I am not talking about 10-12 ft cube trucks making local deliveries- these are FULL SIZE semis coming from or going to Kennedy Airport. There are also dump trucks and riggs pulling empty shipping containers. Empty they sound like a bomb going off when they hit the littlest pothole. I live on Caton Ave and the floor shakes when these trucks go by.
When you go to look at the apt this weekend look at the road condition of Caton Ave. The heavy trucks have squeezed all of the asphalt to the side, towards the curb.

Promise me if you love the apt that you will visit it during the week when the shipping lane is in full swing. You will not love it on a Monday morning at 6:30am. It is 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

Sorry.

Posted by: guest at March 28, 2008 10:30 PM

This is new York not the suburbs. Do you know how many truck routes there are? Buying or not buying an apartment does not depend on the road alone. Why would anybody pay a premium price just to live on another busy traffic clogged street. Do you own your apt. on Caton? If you do you would want people to be interested in buying in the neighborhood. If hate the truck route so much why are you still living there?

Posted by: guest at March 30, 2008 10:02 AM

buy an apartment in the back of the building if you can't stand the traffic.

Posted by: guest at March 30, 2008 10:05 AM

I have lived on Parade Place for 12 years and have never had a problem. However, It is true that Caton ave is extremely loud at all hours. There are alot of people hanging out on the street with chairs and stereos at all hours of the day. There are shootings on the side streets behind the new condo resulting in police blockades AT LEASt once a month. Anyone who lives here can verify that. We had cops surveilling the streets for drugs a year ago and noisy kids in the souped up cars are constant fixtures with loud bass thumping music ALL NIGHT. The new building is out of place and looks cheap and small. I have watched the progress of the building since it started and it has taken YEARS to complete- which may mean not enough money to finish the project properly and certainly they have been cutting corners on the interior. There are no views from the condos-only ugly train station and old buildings. I would never waste good money on such a cheap building considering the noise, the crowds and the huge lack of quality stores, restaurants and entertainment that would defintely attract possible buyers. The neighborhood is slowly changing but don't count on a drastic change anytime soon.

Posted by: guest at April 12, 2008 9:48 PM

I have lived on Parade Place for 12 years and have never had a problem. However, It is true that Caton ave is extremely loud at all hours. There are alot of people hanging out on the street with chairs and stereos at all hours of the day. There are shootings on the side streets behind the new condo resulting in police blockades AT LEASt once a month. Anyone who lives here can verify that. We had cops surveilling the streets for drugs a year ago and noisy kids in the souped up cars are constant fixtures with loud bass thumping music ALL NIGHT. The new building is out of place and looks cheap and small. I have watched the progress of the building since it started and it has taken YEARS to complete- which may mean not enough money to finish the project properly and certainly they have been cutting corners on the interior. There are no views from the condos-only ugly train station and old buildings. I would never waste good money on such a cheap building considering the noise, the crowds and the huge lack of quality stores, restaurants and entertainment that would defintely attract possible buyers. The neighborhood is slowly changing but don't count on a drastic change anytime soon.

Posted by: guest at April 12, 2008 9:50 PM

If you don't want noise and crowds and if you DO want stores and entertainment; where would YOU buy? Where there is entertainment and stores there is noise too. You are contradicting yourself. You like bar and club noise, but you don’t like kids hanging on the street with their stereos? I am confused. Where can you get an apartment for under $500 a square foot in Brooklyn? Please tell me. In Canarsie? where you have to take a bus and a train or TWO to get to work? There isn't even a view of an ugly train station there. Are you telling people to move to the suburbs? Because that’s what they would have to do if they can’t afford to pay more. There are a lot of people that have never bought a place of their own because they always thought is was to expensive at the time, or the location was not right or who knows why else.
All of the places these people didn't buy 10 or 20 years ago are now worth 2 times or 3 times as much. I have neighbors that are renting and they wanted to buy an apartment in my building and as the prices were going up they always said "there is no way I am paying that much, not here“ (what are they talking about? They have been renting here for years. They could have made a fortune already if they owned) and then the prices kept going up and now it's out of reach for them. You have to look at the bigger picture for crying out loud. Location, location, location, not noise, noise, noise. Look at the proximity to the city. In regards to the noise. Nobody is realizing that new buildings have better windows. THEY ARE SOUND PROOF.

Posted by: guest at April 17, 2008 8:49 AM

To the very passionate person who wrote the very inaccurate last posting---- you are an idiot who obviously does not live in the neighborhood-especially if you state that there isn't even a view of the church ave train. That's the only view there is you moron. Noone even mentioned clubs and bars... I said stores and entertainment meaning coffee shops etc. I'm so glad you are wordly and oh so intelligent and by the way- not all buildings are using sound proof windows- I'm suprised you didn't know that already...

Posted by: guest at April 20, 2008 7:20 PM

To the very passionate person who wrote the very inaccurate last posting---- you are an idiot who obviously does not live in the neighborhood-especially if you state that there isn't even a view of the church ave train. That's the only view there is you moron. Noone even mentioned clubs and bars... I said stores and entertainment meaning coffee shops etc. I'm so glad you are wordly and oh so intelligent and by the way- not all buildings are using sound proof windows- I'm suprised you didn't know that already...

Posted by: guest at April 20, 2008 7:21 PM

You are obviously not paying attention. I wrote that there isn’t even a view of a train station if you buy an apartment in a less expensive neighborhood. Since this blog is about the “Caton Court” building. IT HAS SOUND PROOF WINDOWS AND A VIEW OF THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE FROM THE 5TH, 6TH AND 7TH FLOORS. If you are near sided however you are screwed. AGAIN, if you want amenities in your neighborhood you have to pay a lot more money. There is a Dunkin Donuts on Church Ave., but I guess that’s not good enough for you. Why are you still living there after 12 years? Obviously the lack of “entertainment” doesn’t bother YOU very much.

Posted by: guest at April 22, 2008 10:15 AM

I have lived on East 17th by Caton for the last 10 years. I love it. This is a neighborhood with a great deal of community where families have lived for generations. If you take a moment to look people in the eye and show a little respect the community opens up to you. The park is unbeatable. the parade grounds are full of sporting events all weekend for people of all ages. You are near paddle boating, horse back riding, tennis, ice skating. not far from botanical garden, zoo and merry go round. This is a great place for family. also PS 249 is an up and coming school with great test scores, and a positive and passionate staff. for grades K-3.

Posted by: guest at May 12, 2008 9:23 PM