« On Duffield Street, Two Stories Down, 23 to Go Development Watch: 392 St. Marks Avenue »
November 20, 2007
Bathroom Reno #4: Glass Tile Time
Luckily for us, today's bathroom blogger took some photos of the "somewhat livable" bathroom in his South Slope co-op before demolishing it to start over with this glass tile theme. The toilet is Duravit, the tub Zuma, the fixtures and sink Lacava. He went with a satin-finish slate floor and a concrete slab countertop from Room & Board. His one regret? The amount of grout that's visible as a result of using such small tiles (which, by the way, are from Waterworks).
Let's Try This Bathroom Thing Again [Brownstoner]
Bathroom Reno #3: Marble All Around [Brownstoner]
Bathroom Reno #2: After the Fire [Brownstoner]
Bathroom Reno #1: $3,000 Goes A Long Way [Brownstoner]
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Comments
gorgeous! love it!
great countertop....from room and board huh? do they have good lengths available? did you have to cut it down to fit?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 11:49 AM
I like it. Minimal but not too cold. Bravo!
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 11:54 AM
nice toilet
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 11:57 AM
pretty
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 11:59 AM
Nicely done. I'm guessing that this wasn't done under $3k....
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 11:59 AM
Love the look of that tub! We are looking for something very similar--modern lines, deep for soaking, but to fit within our tight length/width specs. Would you mind sharing where you bought it? Esp. if it's somewhere to see it in person (I'm wary of buying something like this online, sight unseen). Thanks!
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:00 PM
what was the cost?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:03 PM
Tres chic! :)
Posted by: bren at November 20, 2007 12:05 PM
WOULD FOLKS MIND LISTING THE COST?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:07 PM
Screw this fucking bullshit. What a stupid feature. Get your ass in gear Brownstoner. You've lost your edge.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:10 PM
why not a medicine cabinet and maybe recessed lighting? or is that a cabinet?
in general, where's the storage? not crazy about sinks with no cabinet underneath.
this doesn't seem like a bathroom a woman could get ready in. ie: blowdryer, toiletries, makeup, tampons?, etc.. where is it all?
also, think the white is a bit severe with the tile. if you wanted so much white, think bigger tiles that were more neutral would have been better. try painting the walls a dark color since not changing tiles obviously.
overall fine for an extra bath, just for toilet and to wash your hands maybe unless there's some storage somewhere we don't see.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:10 PM
Looks pretty good to me. I like the look of the small tiles, but worry about cleaning all the grout. Can someone out there who's been living with a tiles like this comment on this issue? I've got typical 4x4 tile in my current shower surround and the grout gets black mold no matter what we do. It's probably quite old so may be more porous. I just worry about using such tiny tiles or even subway tile in the remodel I'm trying to plan.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:18 PM
glass tiles are beautiful. They require special care in installation though because most need to be set in epoxy grout, which is
a little tricky.
I assume there will be a glass partition going in, unless there is no shower head.
Posted by: sam at November 20, 2007 12:21 PM
I agree with the earlier poster, if not his/her tone. This feature doesn't belong on the site and it will drive most readers away.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:21 PM
12:10/12:21 - I heartily disagree. This type of thing is what brought people to the site in the first place. This is much more interesting and where more of us are at, than endless condo development, real estate speculation, stupid arguments about neighborhoods, and the commute to Wall Street.
If running series on bathrooms, kitchens or any other room drives readers away, hopefully it will be the types who have to say everything with over the top profanity and/or general negativity and nastiness.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:28 PM
i'm confused as to where the toiletries go
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:29 PM
TO the clowns that say this feature doesn't belong. If it drives you away, then you shouldn't be here in the first place. What exactly do you think the purpose of this site is?
Trust me, you leave and you WONT be missed. I love the tile color. What a good number of people struggle with is how to maximize such small spaces in their brownstones and find nice, creative ways to finish their bathrooms & Kitchens. So detractors Be Gone!
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:32 PM
12:10/12:21 are the same person.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:35 PM
The appeal of Brownstoner to me is getting a glimpse inside people's houses and lives, and seeing how they live in their Brooklyn brownstone homes. So this bathroom feature makes perfect sense to me, and i hope to see more of these types of features!
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:35 PM
Ignoring the issue of whether such a topic belongs on the site... Am I the only one who prefers the place pre-reno? Aside from the wooden toilet seat and tacky cabinet under the sink, I frankly would prefer to have the old subway tiles and tub. I guess I just don't understand the current taste - do people really want to live with something that looks like the Soho Grand?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:36 PM
12:36 Think that people just have different taste. I can stand back and see the promise of leaving the old tiles/style in place and just updating as you are saying, but it's just not my thing. I'd go modern too, and would probably love to live in a totally modern apt that was like a boutique hotel. however, realize that you wouldn't, and that's OK.
i do have a problem with people on this site absolutely refusing to see any other point of view, so glad that you brought up another point of view.
think we'd all learn something if we pointed out alternatives and then we each actually thought about those alternatives.
too much bickering going on and not enough discussion probably.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 12:43 PM
12:43 - 12:36 here, and couldn't agree more. The bickering on this site has really gotten out of hand, and I for one am glad to hear (read?) someone differ without venom.
I'm glad some folks (you presumeably included) like the more modern thing - as would I, in a different context - but I just thought it might be worth mentioning an alternative on a site where people are always asking for more financially reasonable alternatives. If you can afford to put in all those tiny little tiles, and like that, by all means. On the other hand, we have here a room with some charm as it was, with a little updating. As you say, just an alternative.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:01 PM
oddly enough, 12:35 is also the same person as 12:10 and 12:21. His/her fourth personality will be appearing shortly. Oh wait, it's ME! Hi everyone!!!
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:01 PM
Yes, I for one am dismayed that Brownstoner is discussing brownstone renovations. How did we lose our way?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:02 PM
Hi. I'm the owner of this bathroom. Thanks for all the positive remarks, I appreciate it. I'll try to answer your questions.
Our friends had just purchased this same tub when we were trying to decide what we wanted to do. We loved theirs so much we just copied them (so we didn't have to go to a showroom to see it). It's my wife's favorite part of our entire apartment renovation. I don't remember exactly where we got it but there's only two places in New York that sell Zuma, one in Manhattan and one in Brooklyn and we ordered it from the place in Brooklyn.
The total cost of the bathroom just under $5,000. (tub=$1,500; wall tiles=$1,200)
Regarding storage, we had two in-wall custom cabinets made and they fit just to the left of the toilet (which is to the right of the vanity/sink). It's just out of both pictures. The other side of that wall is the kitchen wall so it's extra thick, therefore there was a lot of empty space inside of the wall where there were no pipes. We figured it was lost space and would be put to good use as a place for towels and hairdryer and everything else my wife uses. Also, the mirror/vanity has storage into the wall as well.
There is recessed lighting (on dimmers which is really nice when you want a relaxing soak in the tub) as well as the vanity lighting (Artemide). Each on different switches.
Glass tiles are difficult for the reasons listed by others above. Small tiles = lots of grout. I'm not a fan of that much grout in my shower and I've had to replace both tiles and grout twice (and will need to again soon) because I haven't yet found a good sealant. Right now we dry the shower with a towel after we take our showers. A total pain but it keeps it clean and minimizes the problems so much grout causes.
And I agree with those who like features like this on Brownstoner. Seeing before and after pictures is one of the many reasons I love coming to this site (and do on my own site).
Posted by: Rusty at November 20, 2007 1:04 PM
Oh, and I forgot to mention that we have a shower curtain that we moved to each side for the picture.
Posted by: Rusty at November 20, 2007 1:05 PM
Nice bathroom.
Just my general pet peeve, but does anyone else hate when a toilet is next to the tub?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:05 PM
Very contemporary. It's nice. The new toilet and sink are the best. The tub looks bigger and more useful. I hate small baths!
The old wood cabinet was ugly. I had a similar one and replaced it with a pedestal sink and it looks cleaner and more spacious, especially with a tiny bathroom like mine. As for storage: listen, you make accommodations given your space. If you're anal about storage you don't live in a brownstone with tiny baths and closets. You get a modern apartment.
Posted by: Mamacita at November 20, 2007 1:15 PM
Ps.. Only thing I didn't like was the lighting on both side of the mirror (is that florescent?)
Posted by: Mamacita at November 20, 2007 1:18 PM
Hi Rusty, thanks for posting your beautiful bathroom. I have a question about the toilet -- is it the kind that has two different levels of flush, using different amounts of water? It looks that way to me, from the flush mechanism on the top of the tank. We're thinking about buying one, either a Toto or a Duravit, and I was just wondering how you like it so far. Thanks.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:21 PM
Question:
Did your contractor use conventional grout on your glass tile?
This may be the reason why you had a redo so quickly.
Tiny glass tiles like this needs to be stuck on with epoxy grout. It is what most manufacturers specify. It is a pain in the neck, but if you want to use small glass tile, the epoxy grout is a must. It will last forever and you do not have to seal. But heaven help you if you spill it or get on anything.
Posted by: sam at November 20, 2007 1:26 PM
"This feature doesn't belong on the site and it will drive most readers away. "
what an idiotic comment.
all you have to do is not click on it.
i don't click on every single thread.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:41 PM
$5000 seems low when you think about the cost of demolition, having a plumber rough in all the new hardware, the cost of the tiling, not to mention the cost of the toilet and the new bath and shower hardware, the sink, the sink hardware, the vanity, the lights, the electricity. Did you do all the work yourself? If so, this should be mentioned. I would estimate this bathroom to come in closer to $10,000 if this was all contracted out.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 1:52 PM
Regarding the toilet being next to the bath, I don't really know if I "prefer" anything because I've always had to make do with what I have, but I don't mind it in this instance. When we have kids it will be a place to sit while the kid is in the tub. Also, there was no way we could change its location as that's where the drain pipe was and we weren't about to pay to have that moved.
Yes, the toilet is the two-level flush system. We love it. It flushes faster, uses less water and just plain looks better.
Yeah, I later realized that my contractor was an idiot on a few things and the grout was one of them. I've considered doing the epoxy grout thing but I just can't commit myself to spending that much time fixing something that isn't bugging me THAT much. Yet.
Posted by: Rusty at November 20, 2007 1:56 PM
1:52
You're right, I failed to mention that we contracted most of this room out. I had just finished doing the bathroom on our previous apartment (in order to sell it) I wasn't in the mood to do another one. All of the fixtures, lights, cabinets, tub, tile, etc. added up to be just under $5,000. The labor probably cost us around $3,000 - $4,000 more. All stuff I could have done (meaning there wasn't any work that required permits) but didn't feel like it.
Posted by: Rusty at November 20, 2007 2:21 PM
Hi, guys. I share this bathroom with Rusty. I have a LOT of "stuff" and tend to clutter. Creating the two built-in wall cabinets was our best decision and a great way to utilized wasted space in a tiny apartment. There is plenty of storage for towels, hair drier, etc. Also, I feel like the minimalism of our apartment motivates me to clean up my messes. This is by far my favorite room in the apartment. Every time guests come over, they always ooh and aah about how zen and spa-like it is...and I feel the same way every time I'm in there (even a year and a half later). The tub is 2" wider than standard, which is great for soaking. Yes, the tile is a pain only b/c the grout comes out at the bottom, but we haven not yet had a problem with discoloration. Just spray it once in a while with a cleaner. Regarding the vanity lights, yes, they are flourescent. It's great for putting on make-up and getting ready. That's the only time we use them.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 2:29 PM
Very pretty, well-designed bathroom. Personally, I like the large white subway tiles and might not have felt the need to replace them, but I do like the look of the new tile. And the sink, toilet and bathtub are all to die for!
I generally hate bathroom vanities, but am also aware of the need for storage, so often they're unavoidable. You're lucky you had the space for built-in storage. Any chance you could post pictures of that?
I love this feature! The parlor kitchen feature was fabulous, and this is a worthy follow-up. I'd also love to see a feature on brownstone gardens.
Posted by: Park Sloper at November 20, 2007 2:53 PM
This is without a doubt the most "botarded" feature ever seen on this blog.
Brownstoner seems to have completely lost its edge. I know a lot of real estate people and none of them read this site anymore. Either it's this kind of silliness or it's people engaged in a pointless back and forth about how dangerous particular neighborhoods are.
Mr. B, you'd better get a grip.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 3:05 PM
So what do you want? Endless weeks of non-professional pundits arguing about housing bubbles and pricing, followed by countless articles about whatever new condo is going up on 4th Ave and elsewhere, ferocious fights over anything Tish James, Marty Markowitz or James DiBlasio do, riotous condemnation of any kind of renters, heated battles over gentrification and certain "fringe" neighborhoods, topped off by any house of the day damned for being 1)too period, 2)too expensive, 3)too close to the projects, 4) too close to the BQE, or 5)too far away from everything else.
PLEASE - more bathrooms, kitchens, living rooms, basements, yards and gardens, light fixtures, salvage, furniture, paint, tile,...........
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 3:17 PM
Agreed. This site doesn't stand out anymore...at all. I used to read it about ten times a day. Now I look once or twice a week, and usually end up asking myself why I bother. It was a great site in its heyday though.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 3:40 PM
Definately an upgrade. Nice tub and getting rid of the wooden cabinet with the euro sink is a great choice. Personally don't like the tile choice, but that is a matter of one's own personal preference.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 3:43 PM
You idiots don't seem to realize that this blog is a business. It's not in Brownstoner's interest to remain 'cutting edge'. You want to be cutting edge long enough to get noticed. Once that happens, it's time to tone things down a bit, so that things are a little tame but without being completely lame. This keeps the advertisers happy and it targets John and Jane Average, who of course are the people the advertisers are interested in. It doesn't pay to be cutting edge. This isn't Brownstoner's fault. It's just a fact of business.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 3:58 PM
What's cutting edge? All we've seen lately is just cutting.
I remember when Mr. B would post with wonder and joy, his discovery of buildings and neighborhoods that he was unfamiliar with. His discovery of Brooklyn and its varied communities was fun, and the people who wrote in were knowlegeable and gave us insight into places we may not have been familiar with. I remember when he "discovered" Victorian Flatbush, Crown Heights, Sunset Park, Vinegar Hill, and other neighborhoods. Granted, we can't stay naieve forever, but I would gladly return to a mixture of the real estate market news, along with the renovation and neighborhood pieces. Pieces like this one on bathrooms, whether I like the actual room itself, are interesting and relevent. Most of us live in our homes for years. Most of us are interested in ideas for making our homes better.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 4:23 PM
Me, I'm another who likes the pre-reno bath better - even the shower curtain with the ducks. I'd just change the wood seat for a white one with chrome hinges, and replace the vanity with an old-fashioned pedestal sink with a square base. I do like deep soaking tubs, so I could see replacing that with what you have put in if I didn't have a nice, deep pre-war one in there (which it looks like you didn't.)
I see that many like the more modern bathroom look better - but I think the old-fashioned ones match the old house styles better. I'm the same with kitchens - hate granite and fancy cabinets and stainless steel in brownstones - but then, I do know that I'm in a minority preferring the old fashioned aesthetic...guess that just means when I can afford to buy an old house (though I have a feeling I'm priced out of lots of Brooklyn), it'll have to be unrenovated so I can do my own thing....
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 5:14 PM
I looove these features. I love to see inside people's houses, how they've decorated, what appliances they've chosen. I just hope other people aren't scared away by the mean-spiritedness of some of the posts. And I'm absolutely not talking about the posts saying what they like or don't like, or what they would have done different - those are great discussions.
No, I'm talking about the low-self-esteem losers who build themselves up by being anonymous assholes.
I'd love to see a series on appliances - there are so many appliance questions on the forum that it would be great to feature some on the front page: refrigerators one week, washers the next, etc. People could post how they look in an actual home instead of a store, what they love or hate about theirs, and whether or not they would buy them again.
Posted by: Anonymous at November 20, 2007 5:38 PM
I have never liked those bowl sinks that sit on top of a counter. Can someone tell me what the appeal is there?
Usually all I see is counter space under the sink that you have to clean, but that you can't actually use. In this case, it almost looks like a pedestal sink with a big clunky collar around it.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 5:54 PM
I'm happy to see that it is NOT one of those round "salad bowl" sinks that were all the unfortunate rage for a year or so. Nice job overall.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 6:01 PM
These features are really, really dumb and they make the site look bad.
Come on, Mr. B. You're better than this. There is so much going on out there and you're sqaundering bandwidth on bathroom renos? Ugh.
Please, please, please wise up and dish up some substantial features.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 8:36 PM
8:36, if I might direct your attention to the "About" page for this site:
"Brownstoner.com is a site about Brooklyn real estate and renovation."
This is an article about a renovation in a brownstone. Perhaps you should go start your own blog with some "substantial features."
Might I suggest www.nonstopwhining.com as a domain name?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 9:28 PM
First, I agree that this is a great feature - truly useful instead of the fan-the-flames of the bubble gibberish that often takes place on this site (probably to keep the broker/sponsors happy).
Second, this looks like a nice, clean renovation. Having done my own bathroom recently, I sympathize with the grout regrets, but truly I think only the owner sees those (by the way, I used that same Duravit toilet).
Third, if this only cost 3-4K in labor, I want the name of your contractor! Our half to full bath conversion cost over 6K in labor, and that was with a dirt-cheap contractor whose bids were half that of others. Did you did this as a part of a whole apartment renovation so that the labor in the bathroom was part of a much bigger job?
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 10:21 PM
toilet next to the tub is tough when you have a little one in there. you really need to be able to hold on to them when they are little. then, when they are crazy toddlers, you need to be able to stop them from killing themselves or drinking the bathwater or licking the faucet, whichever comes first ...
i specifically looked for a bathroom where the tub could be reached completely without anything blocking me from reaching all parts of it (including the faucets). sliding doors are terrible too for bathing kids.
we bought a condo with no doors or a bar yet so that the owner could decide which they wanted. this is probably becoming the norm.
agree that this tub looks killer, but in the bathroom that my kid bathes in, I actually put in a smaller than usual tub for her to be able to get in and out of and for us to reach in easily.
dumb stuff, but when you have to bathe your kid everyday, it helps.
Posted by: guest at November 20, 2007 10:54 PM
I always find it helpful when this site discusses renovations. I would like to see more and more photos of before and after. Plans would be helpful as well. I think it's all within the mission of the site.
I read in this weekend's NY Times magazine that the creator of Wikipedia thought that even anonymous web commentators should only engage in civil discourse. I totally agree.
Lovely bathroom. Thanks for sharing with us!
Posted by: guest at November 21, 2007 1:32 AM
I guess I don't enjoy these types of threads and don't feel they add much value to the site. Mr. B, please....no more. Despite some of the naysayers above, I love Brownstoner.com but threads like this one are not its finest moments. So please, let this be the last one.
Thanks!
Posted by: guest at November 21, 2007 7:15 AM
These features are just stupid. Not as stupid, perhaps, as the one about parlor floor kitchens, but stupid nonetheless.
Posted by: guest at November 21, 2007 10:16 AM
I just don't understand the comments point blank against this type of feature. I understand if you're not interested--so just don't read them. But how are they inherently "stupid" or not of "value"? If some people--many people, apparently--like them, then obviously they are both not stupid and of value. I don't read all the postings about, for example, community zoning, because I find them incredibly boring. But I don't denounce them carte blanche because obviously some people do care...
Posted by: guest at November 21, 2007 12:28 PM
I think we need to come to the conclusion that the people saying this thread is a waste of time is simply a "troll". THink about it. For someone to get to the bottom of this thread, they clearly invested time in reading or skimming. That said, it obviously presented SOME level of value. The only thing that is a waste of time is responding to people that think it's a waste of time. Because like the poster said above, threads on Zoning, etc... are boring to me and a waste of time... TO ME!!!! But probably lend enormous value to others. So I don't click them and post about how much of a waste it is to me.
I LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT. Loved the Kitchen Reno's, Bathroom Reno's.
I'm hoping for a "Apartment level Reno-- How'd you develop your rental space?? "
Got that Mr. B?? Let's see how some folks maximized their rental spaces to subsidize those Mortgages!!!
Posted by: guest at November 21, 2007 1:34 PM
I wonder how babies survived in days of yore. A toilet next to a tub makes it difficult to bathe the kid?! Drinking bathwater a problem (won't the kid learn soon enough?) Some people will complain about anything.
For the record, I have a child who, when he was little, I had no difficulty at all bathing in much less primitive conditions.
Posted by: cmu at November 27, 2007 5:47 PM
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